[zen]

I disagree that the stadium would not get built there if it weren't for eminent domain.
It would.
It would just cost more.
But that's the price of doing business.
If you combine a (semi) free market economy with individual property rights, then what you get is buyers being forced to pay what the owner asks, or the buyer not buying at all, because THAT'S HOW IT SHOULD BE!
If you want the property bad enough, make an offer that the owner can't refuse.

Right, so we are still debating the legality. But I wasn't debating legality. I know about "just compensation".
As I said in my post, I'm not contending that we stop eminent domain and stop stadium project. I'm just asking for us to NOT deny what we are doing. We are seizing people's land so we can watch football games closer to campus. We aren't seizing land to put in a highway bridge. We aren't seizing land to cure cancer. We aren't seizing land to build a school or police station.

If there was no such thing as eminent domain, you would still acquire property.
All you have to do is form a legal trust to perform the offers, purchases, and transfers.
You don't announce "Sir, we are from megalopolis university and we want to build a stadium".
You make a discrete offer to buy their land. If they don't want to sell (because of sentimental reason, or because they like it there, or because they make a profit there, or because it's been in the family for years, or because they want to will it to their children, or because they met their spouse there and got married, whatever), you double your offer.
IF they refuse, then you triple it, or quadruple it.
If they refuse, then you build around the fuxxorz, or atleast, don't put a dorm in that spot.
If they realize you can do the project without them, maybe they'll change their mind. Or maybe, you can work out a partnership.
But with eminent domain, you tell people what their property is worth and your force them to sell, no matter how much their property was worth to them, and now matter whether they wanted to leave or not.


I'm sorry. I'm just talking about right vs wrong.
In my opinion, we shouldn't have the right to seize land for our whims.
But since we do, let's go for it.
I'll go to the new stadium, and I wont be crying for the old land owners, I will probably enjoy what the university build... perhaps even marvel at it, if it's built well enough.
I'm just saying, let's acknowledge the truth.
The truth is, those people bought that property back when no one else really cared to have it, and they provided a service to the community along with provided for themselves, and now that it's to our advantage to take it away from them, that's what we will do.

[zippy5]

Who would've ever thought the Odd Corner would start such a political debate

[Big Zip]

Randy had a place on the Zip strip years ago -- anyone remember Dr. Feelgoods? Randy owned that place after the Town House closed.

Which brings me to a point on this eminent domain notion -- if anything needs eminent domain it is the plasma center that will be diagonal to the new stadium. The University needs to start the proceedings on that building and plan a new parking deck there with a bridge over Exchange.

[ZippyAlum]

In the town where I live it got out that the Board of Education wanted to build the new high school downtown. Amazingly many of the homes on that site were suddenly owned by board members or family members of the board. They thought they hit the jackpot and were going to be paid big bucks for those homes and buildings. Thankfully the town voted it down and the new school was built outside the downtown area. Justice was served!

[Blue & Gold]

Randy had a place on the Zip strip years ago -- anyone remember Dr. Feelgoods? Randy owned that place after the Town House closed.

Which brings me to a point on this eminent domain notion -- if anything needs eminent domain it is the plasma center that will be diagonal to the new stadium. The University needs to start the proceedings on that building and plan a new parking deck there with a bridge over Exchange.

That plasma center is an embarrassment. It attracts the kind of people that we don't need hanging around our university students; the sort of person that any good parent wouldn't feel very comfortable knowing their son/daughter must walk by on their way to class everyday.

Man, that sounded insensitive but I'm just tellin' it like it is.

[gozips03]

I don't disagree at all - you make great points. My point is simply that eminent domain is deeply ingrained in our Constitutional system. It would take a tremendous amount of political will to do away with it. Maybe it is expansively used or overused, but I'd much rather it be used here with a more clear public purpose than cases like Kelo. It's not a highway or a bridge, but it's not at the maximum of the state's power under the current law either.

It's an interesting issue in the sports world because, post Kelo, it's much easier to seize land for stadiums and the like under the justification of "economic development". With taxpayers often contributing to stadiums, there's even more public support for seizure.

I'm not sure about the roots of eminent domain - to allow the majority to steamroll the minority in doing what they think is right for the community; to ensure the highest and best use for land that is blighted or underutilized; or what. I do know that for some reason it was important enough to our system to enshrine it in the Constitution. Changing that is not easy, even if it's application is enlarged or narrowed as attitudes about where to draw the line between property rights and community benefit ebb and flow.

ZippyAlum - so they ended up with a bunch of houses they didn't want in the first place; neighbors with each other . . . priceless! Where I am, the University is trying to scoop up an entire block of rather historic houses to make way for . . . a parking lot. Talk about highest and best use!

( <--- I used the wrong emoticon in my last post. I meant to use ---> )

[goodthts]

Quick question: Where in the greater downtown/campus area are there HISTORIC houses?

Also, the rights of private property owners vs. public/govt institutions is an age old dilemma. Both sides always seem to bicker. Both sides always say their side is the right one.

I can agree that the whole AU vs. Exchange St businesses has been handled badly by both sides. But, I have no sympathy for owners whining and moaning like they were caught by surprise by the stadium location AND their lame arguments that their establishments are civic/univ minded and good for the area.

Odd Corner---hippie haven of bongs, dildos, and concert t-shirts=no loss
Tanning Shop (old coffeehouse)---yeah, just love seeing semi-attractive Akron coeds walking around with an orange fake bake=no loss
ChopStix---seriously? This place is dirty and the food isnt even that good=no loss
Aroma---place hasnt changed in 10 yrs/havent seen one good improvement made= no loss
Manny's/15 other bars in same location in last 10 yrs---unless you're 21-24, do you seriously still go there?==no loss
Several houses that serve as local business fronts===easily replaced
Sun Bar and Grill---except for nostalgic purposes of past drunken times===no loss

I will be happy to see all these places go. If the Univ was also civic minded (probably are not) then they should offer Sun and Aroma a seat at the table for spots in the new complex. Otherwise, good riddance.

[gozips03]

Quick question: Where in the greater downtown/campus area are there HISTORIC houses?

See previous post . . I don't live in Akron. . . I was talking about a different Univ.

[ziptrumpet87]

Quick question: Where in the greater downtown/campus area are there HISTORIC houses?

There are a few near the U off Fir Hill (Hower house and another that I can't recall the name), one near Towell Cadillac (Edison was married there), west of downtown are Stan Hywet, the Carriage house (where AA was founded), the Simon Perkins mansion, the O'Neils mansion, the John Brown home, downtown is the Howe House (being moved for the new apartments at Main and Exchange)... and there's probably more but that's a quick list that I could come up with.

[g-mann17]

Everything you wrote presumes that you (or me, or govt) gets to decide what should be done with someone's property, not the owner who actually, you know OWNs the property.

What you said here, is true. Except we don't own land. You can't, you can own rights to land, you can own the property that sits on that land. But you can never "own" the land itself. The land in general belongs to the people.

"Oh, I'm sorry, I guess we are all just renting from the govt. Oh, thank you uncle sam for letting me squat here with my pretend deed for a while."

Yes, what do you think a semi-annual property tax is? It's rent, to live in the city. Unfortunately 90% of the time eminent domain is used, the government has a very legal, and useful purpose for the property. Urban blight, progress, etc. Though apparently you think a road through someone's house is a viable reason, which it is not, unless all other avenues have been taken, but that is beside the point.

1. These building had sat for 30 years, and until the last 2 years when it was leaked that that area was the prime real estate for the stadium that property saw little to no improvements. Just occupants milking the students of the university with high prices and shitty service.

2. The city is trying to redevelop the Exchange and Market Street Corridors. Progress. Why should one person whose property is worth 350,000 dollars and is offered double that (and they were look at all the other purchases the U of A has offered anywhere from 50 - 100% above the value of the property) stand in the way. Oh that's right, a person who says you can't put a price tag on dreams and hard work, some how manages to put an exorbinant price tag on their dreams and hard work, and then wants special priveleges. Sorry! It doesn't work that way. One person should not get a million dollars for property in a blighted area when everyone else didn't.

Don't kid yourself the plight of the Odd Corner, and the Nemers is not a plight of "I can't sell my dreams" it's a plight of "Give me, give me, give me I knew someday and expanding University of Akron was going to need this land for something, so now I want all the money I think I deserve, and F the tax payers, and the students, and the alumni whose money I have take with a smile on face year in and year out" That my friend is the bullshit part. They are taking advantage of the situation.

Manny said he would work the the U? No he wanted the U to guarantee a spot for his troubled, underage serving bar and shitty coffee house. And it is shitty coffee.

Am I for eminent domain? Yes when it serves a greater good for a greater amount of people. So let's see, force a couple of blighted businesses that are basically sucker fish on the edge of campus to move. Or give a school of 28,000 and a city of 208,000 a new sporting venue and all the media attention that occurs from such a move? Hmm, yeah I guess you are right, let's just pay those poor business owners 25,000,000 for their property so they can buy a little 200,000 dollar building and keep doing what they've been doing, and sucker fishing the school and it's students for profit.

[zen]

Am I for eminent domain? Yes when it serves a greater good for a greater amount of people.

May karma bring you your dream home, on a very very nice private and scenic piece of land, after a life of hard work, and personal dedication to find it and work on it and to get it just the way you love it, and a few days after you have retired there, you will open a letter from the local government informing you that you need to accept the price offered to you for it because a new shopping mall will be moving in because the old one at the old location just isn't good enough to serve the 'greater good' of your community.

Afterall, your life and your dreams and your property rights all must bow the the multitudes of people who want their starbucks and coldstone creamery.

[GP1]

That plasma center is an embarrassment. It attracts the kind of people that we don't need hanging around our university students; the sort of person that any good parent wouldn't feel very comfortable knowing their son/daughter must walk by on their way to class everyday.

I think the people at the PA serve as a good example to the students. The people at the PA show the student the lengths they will have to go in order to buy beer if they can't afford it.

What?......You're kidding...........The students are selling plasma for beer money like the bums on the corner? This is an outrage.

Seriously, the corner would be better off if the PA was not by campus. I was never much of a Townhouse guy so I did not care when it was closed and replaced by PA. The bums worried neither me nor my parents. I was more of an Armadillo/BW3 guy with Annabel's mixed in if I wanted some live music and loose morales girls in the basement.

Does any one remember The Trolley Stop at Highland Square. Why was it called the Trolley Stop? Answer: When Akron had a trolley system, the corner of West Market and Portage Trail was the furthest west the trolley traveled so the Trolley Stop was a fitting name. True story.

I'm sure my good friend Z-P could tell us some more about the construction of the Akron trolley system. The rumor on the streets of ZipsNation is that he and many other Civil War veterans helped construct the system in the late 1800s. We could learn a lot of history from that guy.

See everyone after Lent.....

Happy Easter!

[Hilltopper]

Am I for eminent domain? Yes when it serves a greater good for a greater amount of people.

May karma bring you your dream home, on a very very nice private and scenic piece of land, after a life of hard work, and personal dedication to find it and work on it and to get it just the way you love it, and a few days after you have retired there, you will open a letter from the local government informing you that you need to accept the price offered to you for it because a new shopping mall will be moving in because the old one at the old location just isn't good enough to serve the 'greater good' of your community.

Afterall, your life and your dreams and your property rights all must bow the the multitudes of people who want their starbucks and coldstone creamery.

Like comparing apples and oranges in this case. These propeties are a bunch of run down shit holes. The buisnesses would be wise to reinvest nearby because lots of people will be checking out the new stadium in the next few years. The thing is that these people aren't going to be interested in some beer soaked shithole, they will flock to new and clean though. Manny should build a new place across the street.

[zen]

Am I for eminent domain? Yes when it serves a greater good for a greater amount of people.

May karma bring you your dream home, on a very very nice private and scenic piece of land, after a life of hard work, and personal dedication to find it and work on it and to get it just the way you love it, and a few days after you have retired there, you will open a letter from the local government informing you that you need to accept the price offered to you for it because a new shopping mall will be moving in because the old one at the old location just isn't good enough to serve the 'greater good' of your community.

Afterall, your life and your dreams and your property rights all must bow the the multitudes of people who want their starbucks and coldstone creamery.

Like comparing apples and oranges in this case. These propeties are a bunch of run down shit holes. The buisnesses would be wise to reinvest nearby because lots of people will be checking out the new stadium in the next few years. The thing is that these people aren't going to be interested in some beer soaked shithole, they will flock to new and clean though. Manny should build a new place across the street.

Apples and Oranges to you... it's still fruit no matter how you slice it. The fruit being the fact that someone else's subjective judgement decides whether you get to keep what you own.

[Hilltopper]

Am I for eminent domain? Yes when it serves a greater good for a greater amount of people.

May karma bring you your dream home, on a very very nice private and scenic piece of land, after a life of hard work, and personal dedication to find it and work on it and to get it just the way you love it, and a few days after you have retired there, you will open a letter from the local government informing you that you need to accept the price offered to you for it because a new shopping mall will be moving in because the old one at the old location just isn't good enough to serve the 'greater good' of your community.

Afterall, your life and your dreams and your property rights all must bow the the multitudes of people who want their starbucks and coldstone creamery.

Like comparing apples and oranges in this case. These propeties are a bunch of run down shit holes. The buisnesses would be wise to reinvest nearby because lots of people will be checking out the new stadium in the next few years. The thing is that these people aren't going to be interested in some beer soaked shithole, they will flock to new and clean though. Manny should build a new place across the street.

Apples and Oranges to you... it's still fruit no matter how you slice it. The fruit being the fact that someone else's subjective judgement decides whether you get to keep what you own.

I guess this is where you and I disagree. As a buisness owner I would look at it as an opportunity to move up in life.