[gozips19]

still unsure as to why this property isn't sold? here's hopping that these properties get bought up fast!


click me

[scottditzen]

Wow, did anyone else read those 110 comments?

The whole debate looks like a crisis of Jerry Springer proportions....

JER-REE JER-REE JER-REE JER-REE

Sounds like many in the community simply hate the University of Akron. Eminent Domain sucks, and is understandibly controversial, but the community desperately needs this stadium and the positve growth that comes with it. Some people evidently want the surrounding campus to resemble the sour mix of urban blight and appalachia.

I just wish the U could've just handled all of this mess with Manny, Odd Corner, etc. behind closed doors.

[g-mann17]

Wow, did anyone else read those 110 comments?

The whole debate looks like a crisis of Jerry Springer proportions....

JER-REE JER-REE JER-REE JER-REE

Sounds like many in the community simply hate the University of Akron. Eminent Domain sucks, and is understandibly controversial, but the community desperately needs this stadium and the positve growth that comes with it. Some people evidently want the surrounding campus to resemble the sour mix of urban blight and appalachia.

I just wish the U could've just handled all of this mess with Manny, Odd Corner, etc. behind closed doors.

Unfortunately since the University is a public entity it could not. Even if they had to come to terms without the eminent domain there would be people that said "Those properties aren't worth $500,000 a piece!". No the problem is that the masses are filled with misinformation and misunderstanding. They all seem to think that Eminent Domain is some evil way for the government to seize property, but the truth is that it is a way to keep the tax payers from being railroaded by one individual. Does it get abused? Yes, but not nearly as often as people think, and most people walk out with a very good sum of money. Then they say that got shafted because they lost business. Well Boo hoo. You could have settled earlier and found a place to move to make the transition from one place to another go smoothly, but you got greedy and thought you could sucker more money out of the government.

[zen]

They all seem to think that Eminent Domain is some evil way for the government to seize property, but the truth is that it is a way to keep the tax payers from being railroaded by one individual.

BULL!!!!
Eminent Dmain is an evil way for the government to seize property.
HELLO! MCFLY!!!!
Some people don't want to sell.
Some people don't want to move.
Some people, when approached by private/public business interests that want to expand simply say "no, I don't want to sell my home (or my shop) because this property (or business) has been in my family for generations" or "It has sentimental value that you can't put a price tag on"
So, what happens?
The 'evil' (your word, not mine) interests turn to the government and say "Look, this person is standing in the way of tax revenue and facilities that will benefit the community"
and the 'evil' (your word, not mine) government says "Woe! We can't have evil members of our community standing in the way of tax dollars *greedy smile*......... er....... I mean..... standing in the way of other community members...... er...... yeah..... you know what I mean, dammit"

Look, I want the football stadium.
And I agree, when some people find out that a university wants their land, they immediately think, "CHING!"
However, don't bullshit around. Eminent domain is all about mob rule.

It's about shitting on individual rights for the sake of the majority, at best.
But usually, it's about shitting on individual rights for the sake of powerful interests (like a university, for example)

[ZippyAlum]

If you look on the other side of Exchange street there are dozens of buildings that need renovated. These businesses should have worked with the university and the city of Akron to acquire those buildings and then use the money they receive to renovate. They have to know how much of their business depends on UoA students and that their businesses will only take off more when the new stadium is in place. Their shops could have been open and ready for the Kentucky game. The money spent on lawyers could be spent on moving, parking, etc. The writing was on the wall but instead of embracing change they dug their heels in and decided to fight. I would have loved to see one of the holdouts in the plasma center and that whole corner cleaned up. I would be more sympathetic but I went to one of those establishments this year to watch an Akron game. The place was filthy, no food, no people, and they didn't even have the game on. I ended up at BWs.

[RowdyZip]

If you look on the other side of Exchange street there are dozens of buildings that need renovated. These businesses should have worked with the university and the city of Akron to acquire those buildings and then use the money they receive to renovate. They have to know how much of their business depends on UoA students and that their businesses will only take off more when the new stadium is in place. Their shops could have been open and ready for the Kentucky game. The money spent on lawyers could be spent on moving, parking, etc. The writing was on the wall but instead of embracing change they dug their heels in and decided to fight. I would have loved to see one of the holdouts in the plasma center and that whole corner cleaned up. I would be more sympathetic but I went to one of those establishments this year to watch an Akron game. The place was filthy, no food, no people, and they didn't even have the game on. I ended up at BWs.

What place did you stop in? If you dont mind...

[ZippyAlum]

I went into Joe's Sun Bar. We were meeting about 15 ppl and had to call everyone and tell them we moved across the street. I loved the look of the big, old bar and the spaciousness of the place but they acted like they had no clue that Akron had an away game that day. Anyone on ZN knows that everyone is always looking for a place to go watch the away games. We need a place where we can wear all our Zips gear. Where we can go before and after the home games and see the away games. We need a place to celebrate our victories and cry in our beer, mixed drink, etc when we lose and where we don't have to fight to get the TV station changed from the OSU game to the Akron game. From the posts during the fall I know I'm not the only one looking for a good place to eat and drink and meet other Zip fans.

[g-mann17]

Look, I want the football stadium.
And I agree, when some people find out that a university wants their land, they immediately think, "CHING!"
However, don't bullshit around. Eminent domain is all about mob rule.

It's about shitting on individual rights for the sake of the majority, at best.
But usually, it's about shitting on individual rights for the sake of powerful interests (like a university, for example)

Eminent domain is more about protecting the tax payer and preventing the extortion of the government. It get's leaked that an area is going to offered a buyout. Then there is one person that decides "Ha, I'm the deciding factor in all of this. So I want one $1 billion dollars for my property or I won't sell" Do you really think that is about their love for the property? No it's about extorting the government. The same way the US government get's charged 200 dollars for a hammer. Private extortion of a government need.

The fact of the matter is that the University went to all of these people, asked to buy the property for slightly above the bank appraised value. Or bought them when available on the open market. Now they own the majority of the land through fair purchasing. Except there are a bunch of greedy property owners that are more worried about making a dollar, then the public interest. They were offered very good money, and when the court determines how much they get, they are going to very sad at the fact that they will get 20% above the state appraised value. They only have themselves to blame.

Like I said, eminent domain can be abused. But these people have been give years worth of opportunity to sell through private closed door offerings. And they didn't, because the money offered wasn't enough. All of these hold outs are people who are trying to cash in at the expense of everyone else in this state.

[GoZips88]

I went into Joe's Sun Bar. We were meeting about 15 ppl and had to call everyone and tell them we moved across the street. I loved the look of the big, old bar and the spaciousness of the place but they acted like they had no clue that Akron had an away game that day. Anyone on ZN knows that everyone is always looking for a place to go watch the away games. We need a place where we can wear all our Zips gear. Where we can go before and after the home games and see the away games. We need a place to celebrate our victories and cry in our beer, mixed drink, etc when we lose and where we don't have to fight to get the TV station changed from the OSU game to the Akron game. From the posts during the fall I know I'm not the only one looking for a good place to eat and drink and meet other Zip fans.

My son and I stopped in at Scorchers on Waterloo Road for lunch yesterday (Super Bowl Sunday) to check it out and get our Nick Goddard "free wings." Had a very nice conversation with Randy, owner of the place. 1986 alum and BIG Zips fan. Does a LOT of the catering if not all of it for the men's basketball program (Dambrot is superstitious and Randy is his guy). Lots of TVs, a bar, plenty of seating, and access to pretty much everything except Time Warner (i.e. when TW picked up the Akron @ Can't game the other night). Has Can't and Akron football helmets on the wall knocking into each other and respective jerseys on either side of them. Also has tosu jersey, missing MEE-chigan jersey ("no-show" at tosu/Michigan football games), Browns, and Steeler jerseys on the wall as well. I realize it's off-campus but keep it in mind if you're looking for an Akron-friendly establishment and a means to get there.

[ziptrumpet87]

I went into Joe's Sun Bar. We were meeting about 15 ppl and had to call everyone and tell them we moved across the street. I loved the look of the big, old bar and the spaciousness of the place but they acted like they had no clue that Akron had an away game that day. Anyone on ZN knows that everyone is always looking for a place to go watch the away games. We need a place where we can wear all our Zips gear. Where we can go before and after the home games and see the away games. We need a place to celebrate our victories and cry in our beer, mixed drink, etc when we lose and where we don't have to fight to get the TV station changed from the OSU game to the Akron game. From the posts during the fall I know I'm not the only one looking for a good place to eat and drink and meet other Zip fans.

My son and I stopped in at Scorchers on Waterloo Road for lunch yesterday (Super Bowl Sunday) to check it out and get our Nick Goddard "free wings." Had a very nice conversation with Randy, owner of the place. 1986 alum and BIG Zips fan. Does a LOT of the catering if not all of it for the men's basketball program (Dambrot is superstitious and Randy is his guy). Lots of TVs, a bar, plenty of seating, and access to pretty much everything except Time Warner (i.e. when TW picked up the Akron @ Can't game the other night). Has Can't and Akron football helmets on the wall knocking into each other and respective jerseys on either side of them. Also has tosu jersey, missing MEE-chigan jersey ("no-show" at tosu/Michigan football games), Browns, and Steeler jerseys on the wall as well. I realize it's off-campus but keep it in mind if you're looking for an Akron-friendly establishment and a means to get there.

Maybe he'd be interested in moving into one of the downtown spots?

[Captain Kangaroo]

I went into Joe's Sun Bar. We were meeting about 15 ppl and had to call everyone and tell them we moved across the street. I loved the look of the big, old bar and the spaciousness of the place but they acted like they had no clue that Akron had an away game that day. Anyone on ZN knows that everyone is always looking for a place to go watch the away games. We need a place where we can wear all our Zips gear. Where we can go before and after the home games and see the away games. We need a place to celebrate our victories and cry in our beer, mixed drink, etc when we lose and where we don't have to fight to get the TV station changed from the OSU game to the Akron game. From the posts during the fall I know I'm not the only one looking for a good place to eat and drink and meet other Zip fans.

A lot of us go to BW-3's prior to games.

[RootforRoo44]

I went into Joe's Sun Bar. We were meeting about 15 ppl and had to call everyone and tell them we moved across the street. I loved the look of the big, old bar and the spaciousness of the place but they acted like they had no clue that Akron had an away game that day. Anyone on ZN knows that everyone is always looking for a place to go watch the away games. We need a place where we can wear all our Zips gear. Where we can go before and after the home games and see the away games. We need a place to celebrate our victories and cry in our beer, mixed drink, etc when we lose and where we don't have to fight to get the TV station changed from the OSU game to the Akron game. From the posts during the fall I know I'm not the only one looking for a good place to eat and drink and meet other Zip fans.

My son and I stopped in at Scorchers on Waterloo Road for lunch yesterday (Super Bowl Sunday) to check it out and get our Nick Goddard "free wings." Had a very nice conversation with Randy, owner of the place. 1986 alum and BIG Zips fan. Does a LOT of the catering if not all of it for the men's basketball program (Dambrot is superstitious and Randy is his guy). Lots of TVs, a bar, plenty of seating, and access to pretty much everything except Time Warner (i.e. when TW picked up the Akron @ Can't game the other night). Has Can't and Akron football helmets on the wall knocking into each other and respective jerseys on either side of them. Also has tosu jersey, missing MEE-chigan jersey ("no-show" at tosu/Michigan football games), Browns, and Steeler jerseys on the wall as well. I realize it's off-campus but keep it in mind if you're looking for an Akron-friendly establishment and a means to get there.

Maybe he'd be interested in moving into one of the downtown spots?

i believe that's the location that just reopened...doubt they want to move again

[zen]

Look, I want the football stadium.
And I agree, when some people find out that a university wants their land, they immediately think, "CHING!"
However, don't bullshit around. Eminent domain is all about mob rule.

It's about shitting on individual rights for the sake of the majority, at best.
But usually, it's about shitting on individual rights for the sake of powerful interests (like a university, for example)

Eminent domain is more about protecting the tax payer and preventing the extortion of the government. It get's leaked that an area is going to offered a buyout. Then there is one person that decides "Ha, I'm the deciding factor in all of this. So I want one $1 billion dollars for my property or I won't sell" Do you really think that is about their love for the property? No it's about extorting the government. The same way the US government get's charged 200 dollars for a hammer. Private extortion of a government need.

The fact of the matter is that the University went to all of these people, asked to buy the property for slightly above the bank appraised value. Or bought them when available on the open market. Now they own the majority of the land through fair purchasing. Except there are a bunch of greedy property owners that are more worried about making a dollar, then the public interest. They were offered very good money, and when the court determines how much they get, they are going to very sad at the fact that they will get 20% above the state appraised value. They only have themselves to blame.

Like I said, eminent domain can be abused. But these people have been give years worth of opportunity to sell through private closed door offerings. And they didn't, because the money offered wasn't enough. All of these hold outs are people who are trying to cash in at the expense of everyone else in this state.

and you missed the whole point of my post.

Everything you wrote presumes that you (or me, or govt) gets to decide what should be done with someone's property, not the owner who actually, you know OWNs the property.
Oh, I'm sorry, I guess we are all just renting from the govt. Oh, thank you uncle sam for letting me squat here with my pretend deed for a while.

The university was buying up land all over there WAY before anyone was talking about stadium.
I remember having a thread on this site with rumors of a stadium only 2 years ago where we were speculating about it's location. UofA was aquiring land before that.
Guess what?
Some people didn't actually want to sell.

Your whole post basically says "Fukk them. It's our land because we want it. Who cares if they bought it back when most people didn't want to buy land there. We have a better idea thus we can seize it." but really masked in jargon that rationalizes and justifies taking land away from people for the greater good of the community or the people. As I said, it's all about shitting on individual rights.
If the people didn't want to sell back before they knew about the stadium, it's because they didn't want to sell. You didn't consider that, because you don't want to feel guilty for the land grab.

As I said before, and I will repeat again, I WANT our football stadium there.
I just want to be clear about one fact... because I wont bullshit myself like many people will.... we don't have a right to force people to sell their land just because we want to enjoy watching an oblong leather ball get tossed around in one location rather than another one. But we are doing it anyway, so let's acknowledge our faults. We are selfish, and we use government to take people's land away for our own whims.
I'm not saying stop the eminent domain proceedings. They are legal (they shouldn't be, but they are) and they get used elsewhere, we might as well do it to. I'm not saying we should stop, I am just saying we should admit what we are doing for what it is.

[you am i]

I'm somewhat sympathetic to your argument against eminent domain, but I disagree. If there was no eminent domain it would be next to impossible and certainly cost prohibitive to build the new stadium or any other public facility that requires a lot of land. Just where do you think it would be built? In the middle of nowhere, I guess. Actually, it probably would not be built at all, nor would nearly any of the other public projects that we all benefit from every day and take for granted, like the freeways and the turnpike. Its a trade-off. As long as the owners are fairly compensated, with a little extra $$ kicked in for their trouble, I can live with it. Its not a perfect world and the benefit of the community can't be held hostage by the private interests of a few indivduals. Plus, there's judicial oversight and an appeals process to keep things under control.

I'm sure there are individual sad stories of a person forced to sell who legitimately didn't want to, but my feeling is that most of the time the hold-outs are just being a little bit greedy. The Odd Corner seems to be a case in point. Don't kid yourself, as someone once said, "Its not about the money. Its about the amount of the money."

Bring on the bulldozers.

[gozips03]

An interesting topic. I understand the adherence to personal property rights, but I think eminent domain in this case is consistent with the takings clause. Eminent domain has been especially controversial since Kelo v. City of New London's expansion of the definition of "public use" to include projects that will increase tax revenue and have other economic benefits to the community (more broadly, Kelo said that a use is "public" if it is "rationally related" to a "conceivable government purpose"). You can certainly make the argument that some cities, states, and the feds have pushed the limit in terms of what constitutes public use, but individual property rights have never been absolute. The Fifth Amendment (1791) explicitly grants Congress (and the states through the Fourteenth Amendment) the power to take private property for public use provided that just compensation is given. Like it or not, eminent domain is here unless: 1) you successfully lobby the state legislature to agree to not use eminent domain or limit its application to a narrower definition public uses, or 2) muster the overwhelming support necessary to amend the Constitution.

I thought Kelo was poorly decided for a number of reasons that I won't get into here. In this situation, though, there is a long, long line of cases holding that the eminent domain of land for a public university is a sufficient "public use". On the face of it, (and I'm 250 miles away and not readily privy to all of the details of the project/how the deal is structured) this looks a lot like the cases using land for a library, dorm, or whatever. The cases I found on the subject support what UA has done in the purely Constitutional sense - with Kelo providing the "ceiling" of government power in takings cases. What constitutes "just compensation" under the Fifth Amendment is a whole other issue for another day.