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55 minutes ago, akronzips71 said:

Sits one, plays 2. 3 PPG

FEH

Only one center anywhere on the chart. Really?

Yeah.  I understand the game is changing and "Small Ball" and what not.  But I'm also scratching my head a bit.

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It's almost as if Groce is adopting the NFL camp roster concept and will cut the team down to his 13 scholarship players right before the season. As to the lack of bigs, I wonder if he's striking out with his type of recruits. Quality bigs are hard to land anyway, but bigs who can run like deer and can shoot away from the basket are even less available. We might have to start winning big games with smaller than ideal line ups just to attract these recruits. 

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2 minutes ago, akronzips71 said:

Come on. KD found three bigs who contributed big time. Even K-Lac is better by far than where we are heading.

 

 

I'm as lost as anybody, but K-lac was capable of fouling out of the game by the first TV time out. I do agree with your larger point however.

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19 minutes ago, Illini Zip said:

 

I'm as lost as anybody, but K-lac was capable of fouling out of the game by the first TV time out. I do agree with your larger point however.

He fouled out on moving screens. His footwork was not fast enough for that and coach should have known that and not played him that way.

From what I have seen on here, Groce has not even offered a big. This is absurd. There has to be a 6'10" or 6'11" high school kid that is worth taking a chance on, or at least make the offers and get rejected.

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3 minutes ago, zippy5 said:

Groce doesn't want to play a game with a big man slowing things down. That's okay

No, it's not

Right now I hold him in the same esteem as iCoach.

He has had enough time to build a team and institute a system.

Taking a transfer who will sit for a year and then possibly contribute 3 points a game is not a winning formula

I hope I will be proved wrong.

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There is a reason K-Lac ended up at malone or whichever non-D1 school it was. It was obvious D1 was too fast of a game for him. I'd take playing a 6'6 or 6'7 forward at C any day of the week if it meant keeping K-Lac on the bench.

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13 hours ago, zippy5 said:

Groce doesn't want to play a game with a big man slowing things down. That's okay

 

Ding ding ding ding! Hit the nail on the head. 

 

13 hours ago, akronzips71 said:

Come on. KD found three bigs who contributed big time. Even K-Lac is better by far than where we are heading.

 

13 hours ago, akronzips71 said:

No, it's not

Right now I hold him in the same esteem as iCoach.

He has had enough time to build a team and institute a system.

Taking a transfer who will sit for a year and then possibly contribute 3 points a game is not a winning formula

I hope I will be proved wrong.

 

KD found 2 big guys that contributed well - Zeke & Big Dog. He also had a system he could sell to them (by the way, we never made it to the NCAA Tourney with Big Dog). Groce has a system predicated around getting out and running, as well as off the ball movement in the half-court. It's not an easy sell to big guys whom are used to camping underneath the hoop and backing down their defenders. 

 

I think your timetable for the turnaround is completely unrealistic if you're only giving him two years. This program was left in worse condition than I think many of us realized when KD bolted. This roster is looking better and better with each off-season, though, and that's a positive. I know you have a Big Man fetish, but guard-dominated basketball wins not only in the MAC, but at the NCAA Tourney level as well. When's the last time we talked about a mid-major making a run with a big man leading the way? The majority, if not all of the "Cinderella" runs by mid-majors are led by guards. I'm looking at this roster, and thinking "Man, this has all the ingredients to be good." Xeyrius Williams & Sayles are your athletic front-court guys (assuming Sayles doesn't transfer). Riak is your big man. Then your backcourt & forwards (small forwards, traditionally) are all in the 6'2"-6'7" range, which is quite tall and not something we're used to (minus LCJ). This team is going to get out and run teams out of the gym, if they can execute the game plan properly and make their shots (that's the biggest factor). There are a few pieces I'm interested to see how they fit (Ali & Roscoe are the big 2), but otherwise I'm very intrigued. 

 

And can we quit railing on these 1-2 year transfers? Pro sports teams sign vets to 1 year contracts all the time to bring experience into the clubhouse/locker room. If they can play, even better. We have to stop the bleeding and rebuild the culture, though, and I have nothing against a couple 1-2 year players. Groce is at least even with the curve when it comes to the ever-changing & moving landscape of college basketball. 

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On 6/25/2019 at 9:25 AM, Let'sGoZips94 said:

 

Ding ding ding ding! Hit the nail on the head. 

 

 

KD found 2 big guys that contributed well - Zeke & Big Dog. He also had a system he could sell to them (by the way, we never made it to the NCAA Tourney with Big Dog). Groce has a system predicated around getting out and running, as well as off the ball movement in the half-court. It's not an easy sell to big guys whom are used to camping underneath the hoop and backing down their defenders. 

 

I think your timetable for the turnaround is completely unrealistic if you're only giving him two years. This program was left in worse condition than I think many of us realized when KD bolted. This roster is looking better and better with each off-season, though, and that's a positive. I know you have a Big Man fetish, but guard-dominated basketball wins not only in the MAC, but at the NCAA Tourney level as well. When's the last time we talked about a mid-major making a run with a big man leading the way? The majority, if not all of the "Cinderella" runs by mid-majors are led by guards. I'm looking at this roster, and thinking "Man, this has all the ingredients to be good." Xeyrius Williams & Sayles are your athletic front-court guys (assuming Sayles doesn't transfer). Riak is your big man. Then your backcourt & forwards (small forwards, traditionally) are all in the 6'2"-6'7" range, which is quite tall and not something we're used to (minus LCJ). This team is going to get out and run teams out of the gym, if they can execute the game plan properly and make their shots (that's the biggest factor). There are a few pieces I'm interested to see how they fit (Ali & Roscoe are the big 2), but otherwise I'm very intrigued. 

 

And can we quit railing on these 1-2 year transfers? Pro sports teams sign vets to 1 year contracts all the time to bring experience into the clubhouse/locker room. If they can play, even better. We have to stop the bleeding and rebuild the culture, though, and I have nothing against a couple 1-2 year players. Groce is at least even with the curve when it comes to the ever-changing & moving landscape of college basketball. 

Sayles athletic front court guy?   His first year he showed some flashes of being good but rarely showed any athleticism and last year he was very passive when he played before he got injured.  I really hope his third year will be better and injury free but he is a big question mark.  One person on this board has him as transferring which makes no sense this late in the process.  I like your optimism and I hope that you are right but essentially this is the 3rd year under Groce with a substantially new roster.  I would still like to know who will be our 13 scholarship players. 

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53 minutes ago, 1981 grad said:

Sayles athletic front court guy?   His first year he showed some flashes of being good but rarely showed any athleticism and last year he was very passive when he played before he got injured.  I really hope his third year will be better and injury free but he is a big question mark.  One person on this board has him as transferring which makes no sense this late in the process.  I like your optimism and I hope that you are right but essentially this is the 3rd year under Groce with a substantially new roster.  I would still like to know who will be our 13 scholarship players. 

 

Comfort/Production and athleticism are 2 different things. He gets up and down the floor well for a big man, so I consider him to be more on the athletic side. You're right, though - he needs to take the big leap forward and show he can contribute this year. 

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On 6/25/2019 at 9:25 AM, Let'sGoZips94 said:

 

Ding ding ding ding! Hit the nail on the head. 

 

 

KD found 2 big guys that contributed well - Zeke & Big Dog. He also had a system he could sell to them (by the way, we never made it to the NCAA Tourney with Big Dog). Groce has a system predicated around getting out and running, as well as off the ball movement in the half-court. It's not an easy sell to big guys whom are used to camping underneath the hoop and backing down their defenders. 

 

I think your timetable for the turnaround is completely unrealistic if you're only giving him two years. This program was left in worse condition than I think many of us realized when KD bolted. This roster is looking better and better with each off-season, though, and that's a positive. I know you have a Big Man fetish, but guard-dominated basketball wins not only in the MAC, but at the NCAA Tourney level as well. When's the last time we talked about a mid-major making a run with a big man leading the way? The majority, if not all of the "Cinderella" runs by mid-majors are led by guards. I'm looking at this roster, and thinking "Man, this has all the ingredients to be good." Xeyrius Williams & Sayles are your athletic front-court guys (assuming Sayles doesn't transfer). Riak is your big man. Then your backcourt & forwards (small forwards, traditionally) are all in the 6'2"-6'7" range, which is quite tall and not something we're used to (minus LCJ). This team is going to get out and run teams out of the gym, if they can execute the game plan properly and make their shots (that's the biggest factor). There are a few pieces I'm interested to see how they fit (Ali & Roscoe are the big 2), but otherwise I'm very intrigued. 

 

And can we quit railing on these 1-2 year transfers? Pro sports teams sign vets to 1 year contracts all the time to bring experience into the clubhouse/locker room. If they can play, even better. We have to stop the bleeding and rebuild the culture, though, and I have nothing against a couple 1-2 year players. Groce is at least even with the curve when it comes to the ever-changing & moving landscape of college basketball. 

 

It's also unreasonable to use Zeke and Big Dog, arguably the two best big men players in UA and MAC basketball history as a measuring stick for big men available.

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3 hours ago, clarkwgriswold said:

 

It's also unreasonable to use Zeke and Big Dog, arguably the two best big men players in UA and MAC basketball history as a measuring stick for big men available.

OK, so lets stop trying and just concede. As long as we beat Kent State the season does not matter.

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4 hours ago, akronzips71 said:

OK, so lets stop trying and just concede. As long as we beat Kent State the season does not matter.

 

Not conceding a damn thing.  Just being rational enough to realize that no team duplicates the two of the best players in its history on a regular basis.  KD recruited 2 of them in 16 years, yet we're to expect Groce to get them every year? 

 

The staff has a duty to turn over every rock and try to get every talented player that can help the team but the reality is that quality big men don't grow on trees.

Edited by clarkwgriswold
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16 hours ago, LosAngelesZipFan said:

That's what she oh forget it

Eastern Michigan had a front line of 6'9", 6'10" and 6'11".   They were 15-17.  

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