Zipgrad01 Posted February 17, 2012 Report Share Posted February 17, 2012 I don't really think there's much of a difference in interest between OU and Miami. One game was a Saturday, and the other was a Wednesday. Several things are hurting attendance. One thing hurting attendance is the web streams. I would have been inclined to go to about 3 or 4 of the home games, but the game was web streamed, so I watched it from my computer. Not only that, I have to get up at 4:30am for work, so it is much more convenient to watch it online. Other things impact my decision... 1. I hate the JAR and I can't stand watching a game there. I would rather watch from home. 2. None of the teams coming in make me want to stay out late enough on a work night to put in the effort to make it to the campus. Can't, yes...other than that not a chance. Like another poster said, the regular season title means little, so being at those games has less of an important feel. If we were playing to make the tourney I would go for sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zipmeister Posted February 17, 2012 Report Share Posted February 17, 2012 Three things: 1. Having an arena that will accommodate hockey does not mean that seating close to the basketball floor is not possible. 2. Interesting that an on campus football stadium is better than one off campus, but an off campus basketball arena would be better than one on campus. 3. If an important factor in demonstrating a need for a new arena includes consistent sellout crowds, it may be a couple more decades before we can demonstrate a need. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yazan07 Posted February 17, 2012 Report Share Posted February 17, 2012 A little bit off topic but... a couple weeks ago I went into one of my professor's offices to meet with him. I walked into his office and the seats were like four connected wooden chairs. I sat down and didn't immediately put the pieces together and while examining it said "this is, uh, this is a bench?" He told me that it was a set of chairs from Memorial Hall. Pretty cool huh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UAZipster0305 Posted February 17, 2012 Report Share Posted February 17, 2012 What I want to see in a new basketball facility (in no particular order)... 1) Location: Downtown across from Canal Park with street front shops/restaurants like at the Consol Energy Center in Pittsburgh. This replaces a blighted property in an optimal downtown area adjacent to the edge of campus and new student housing. The football stadium should have been on campus because there is a tailgating culture that requires being outside and having a park-like campus that draws fans and alumni during the day, which adds to the experience. This is not so for basketball. The nightlife is where it is at for the basketball crowd. And even though my proposed location is technically "off-campus" it is not the off-campus that was the Rubber Bowl. Big difference! 2) Size: <8,000 is thinking way too small...especially if we make it to a real conference with name brand opponents. Thinking small is what got Cleveland an outdoor only football stadium that is only used 10 times per year. Meanwhile, cities like Detroit and Indy host the Super Bowl and college bowl games. We should aspire to NOT be like Cleveland. I want to have a credible bid to host NCAA Tournament games. No way that happens with <8,000 when Columbus, Cleveland, and Pittsburgh all have large, elite arenas. Hosting such events bring economic benefits and carries national exposure. >=10,000 is necessary and could be fully utilized if a conference upgrade is in our future. 3) Functionality: The venue needs to be designed to provide an intimate atmosphere for basketball, but also be able to host hockey, concerts, and other events (Cirqu du Soleil, arena football, indoor soccer, etc.). Having a great basketball environment and a multi-purpose facility are not mutually exclusive if done intelligently. 4) Financing: Cut a deal with the City such that it is a jointly owned property. Doing so assists with paying for the arena provided it is multi-purpose (primarily for the City's benefit) and UA has 90% of the design input. The location noted above also benefits the City. Everyone wins! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zipmeister Posted February 17, 2012 Report Share Posted February 17, 2012 I totally agree. It is all being driven by football right now. My concern is this about college basketball in general and then I'll relate it to the Zips. I believe college basketball is in decline. A few ESPN folks have talked about it recently. Too many low scoring games. Not to pick on tosu, but they were ranked #3 Saturday and only scored 48 on their home court...terrible. There was a game not long ago when neither team scored 50. Dick Vitale called it terrible for college basketball and he is right. It makes college basketball Dollarr General. Players don't know how to play basketball anymore and fans still remember what a good basketball player should play like, which is why Jeremy Lin is so interesting...he actually know how to play basketball. What does the ncaa do to promote more scoring...move the 3 point line back so it is even harder to make one. The people who run the ncaa couldn't run a Boy Scout troop. To a large extent, the ncaa is at fault for the decline in college basketball. The sooner that organization goes away, the better. They are killing the goose that pooped out the golden egg. Everything has become about the ncaa tournament and "crowning a champion". It's so bad that making the Tournament isn't even good enough for some schools. A team either has to make the Sweet 16 or the coach gets fired....complete nonsense. How does not making or not even having a team to go deep in the Tournament hurt schools? If the game is about the Tournament, then why should fans go watch a regular season game? If the game is about going deep in the Tournament and a team is obviously not capable of doing that, then why go watch them play? Anyone notice how empty may big time college basketball arenas are now when you watch a game? It's not about the game anymore, it's about the Tournament because the ncaa needs that goose to poop out that egg every year so they can have another successful year of mismanagement. So, moving for ward with the Zips basketball program. We have a team on the ascent when the general college basketball market is in decline. Are we in a position where it doesn't matter if we continue to improve if fans are losing interest in college basketball? I look at attendance and it makes me think that. I still can't figure out why 5,500 fans a game aren't going to watch this team. I hope this isn't the case because too many people have put too much effort to get this team to where it is today and it would be a crying shame if that happened. This is why I think the Zips should really take their time and spend some of that time trying to figure out where the market for college basketball is going to be in 10 years. The last thing we need is a great team playing in a 10,000 seat arena with the same 4,000 fans going to the games. Great post. You won't believe what those rascally folks at the NCAA are doing now. They are releasing figures that show D1 basketball is increasing in popularity, and those jerks at ESPN were dumb enough to print it. http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/news/story?id=6432396 A suggestion to increase scoring and get college basketball out of decline; leave the three point line alone and lower the baskets to 9 feet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wadszip Posted February 17, 2012 Report Share Posted February 17, 2012 Great post. You won't believe what those rascally folks at the NCAA are doing now. They are releasing figures that show D1 basketball is increasing in popularity, and those jerks at ESPN were dumb enough to print it. http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/news/story?id=6432396 A suggestion to increase scoring and get college basketball out of decline; leave the three point line alone and lower the baskets to 9 feet. Seriously, I can't tell if you are agreeing, or just being a douche. But from looking at your post history, I'm leaning toward you just being a flat-out douchebag. P.S. I actually disagree with his much of his post, too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zip Watcher Posted February 17, 2012 Report Share Posted February 17, 2012 Timely article in the WSJ this week. Where are the fans? I think there's a real risk of building too big. Gotta avoid that, and the noid. See you in Tulsa. Go Zips! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GP1 Posted February 17, 2012 Report Share Posted February 17, 2012 Great post. You won't believe what those rascally folks at the NCAA are doing now. They are releasing figures that show D1 basketball is increasing in popularity, and those jerks at ESPN were dumb enough to print it. http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/news/story?id=6432396 This story only points to an increase. Doesn't say where the increase is coming from or gives any history of attendance beyond one year. The increase pointed to is an increase over the previous year, which was probably in decline because of the recession. While it may have increased, it may not be at the point where it was three years ago. Not just college basketball, but lots of industries are experiencing the same phenomena. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zippy5 Posted February 17, 2012 Report Share Posted February 17, 2012 This story only points to an increase. Doesn't say where the increase is coming from or gives any history of attendance beyond one year. The increase pointed to is an increase over the previous year, which was probably in decline because of the recession. While it may have increased, it may not be at the point where it was three years ago. Not just college basketball, but lots of industries are experiencing the same phenomena. It's #5 all-time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GP1 Posted February 17, 2012 Report Share Posted February 17, 2012 Timely article in the WSJ this week. Where are the fans? I think there's a real risk of building too big. Gotta avoid that, and the noid. Thanks for posting ZW. It is a topic I'm interested in and saddened by. College basketball is great entertainment and it's sad to see it in decline. If the NCAA ever goes to a college football playoff, everything will become about the playoffs and not about the games themselves. It will be interesting for a few years, then the stupidity that has crept into college basketball will take hold and the decline will begin. ESPN will be right there to aid in the decline. College of Charleston plays in TD Arena. They were on TV here last weekend the the talking head said it was their 5th sell out of the season. 5,100 seats is too small, but the configuration is great. A larger upper deck making the arena 7,000 seats would be perfect for the Zips. Now...if we would just move the Zips to Charleston, I could go to a lot more games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GP1 Posted February 17, 2012 Report Share Posted February 17, 2012 It's #5 all-time. If it is growing, why isn't it #1? Arenas have only gotten bigger so the seating capacity has gotten bigger and fans aren't taking advantage of the increased size of arena. Building bigger arenas in the hope of fan interest and turnout is not the answer. An entertaining product with filled, smaller stadiums is the answer. The reason so many new baseball stadiums were built as small as they are was to drive weekday ticket sales. The teams could easily sell Friday, Saturday and Sunday tickets. They made them smaller to drive sellouts on the weekend so fans who were interested, but without tickets, had to go to Monday-Thursday games. A 10,000 seat arena for Akron isn't the answer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zippy5 Posted February 17, 2012 Report Share Posted February 17, 2012 If it is growing, why isn't it #1? Arenas have only gotten bigger so the seating capacity has gotten bigger and fans aren't taking advantage of the increased size of arena. Building bigger arenas in the hope of fan interest and turnout is not the answer. An entertaining product with filled, smaller stadiums is the answer. The reason so many new baseball stadiums were built as small as they are was to drive weekday ticket sales. The teams could easily sell Friday, Saturday and Sunday tickets. They made them smaller to drive sellouts on the weekend so fans who were interested, but without tickets, had to go to Monday-Thursday games. A 10,000 seat arena for Akron isn't the answer. You answered that yourself earlier, the economy. I certainly don't think CBB is in any trouble drawing the 5th most fans ever during crappy times. And the seating capacity all depends on the conference, imo. 7000-7500 for the MAC/CUSA...over 10k for the Big East. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GP1 Posted February 17, 2012 Report Share Posted February 17, 2012 You answered that yourself earlier, the economy. I certainly don't think CBB is in any trouble drawing the 5th most fans ever during crappy times. And the seating capacity all depends on the conference, imo. 7000-7500 for the MAC/CUSA...over 10k for the Big East. Major League Baseball had a large increase in attandance over 2010 last season. If I'm not mistaken, it was their best season ever. Would you describe the condition of MLB as good or even ascending? Of course not, our national pastime is quickly becoming swallowed up by other forms of entertainment and is in steady decline and has been for a number of years now. TV viewership is terrible and 80% of the teams have no shot at ever even making the playoffs. People in cities like Pittsburgh and KC should never pay a dime to go watch their teams play. Don't count attendance as the only evidence that a sport is in decline or not. CBB is having problems and lots of people are starting to notice it. There are lots of ways to increase ticket sales through low prices, etc. Do we really want to build a 10,000 seat arena and then have $1.00 tickets just to fill the wasted space? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zippy5 Posted February 17, 2012 Report Share Posted February 17, 2012 I think one could make a pretty compelling argument that baseball is in the best shape of any professional sport right now, but that has nothing to do with this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zipmeister Posted February 17, 2012 Report Share Posted February 17, 2012 Seriously, I can't tell if you are agreeing, or just being a douche. But from looking at your post history, I'm leaning toward you just being a flat-out douchebag. P.S. I actually disagree with his much of his post, too. I think my winking smiley face says it all. I can't tell whether you really can't tell if I am agreeing with his post (since you say that you disagree with much of his post too) or just being a fully-inflated douchebag. massive attendance stats available at: http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/stats/m_basketball...attend/2011.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue & Gold Posted February 17, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 17, 2012 I think an arena between 8,000 -10,000-seats is appropriate. Of course this is just my uneducated opinion. The U will have much consulting on this issue, probably receiving much input from the Big East, if, in fact, they are in discussions with the conference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spin Posted February 17, 2012 Report Share Posted February 17, 2012 Has anyone brought up the UPA site at Forge and E. Market? Yeah, the city wants it downtown, but they have no funds. The U wants it "on campus". Which is a couple blocks way. But that would give the University one heck of a footprint on E. Market. Parking would be a problem. Summa desnt have enough for itself (where does that sound familiar?). Just thinking out loud. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachTheZip Posted February 17, 2012 Report Share Posted February 17, 2012 Has anyone brought up the UPA site at Forge and E. Market? Yeah, the city wants it downtown, but they have no funds. The U wants it "on campus". Which is a couple blocks way. But that would give the University one heck of a footprint on E. Market. Parking would be a problem. Summa desnt have enough for itself (where does that sound familiar?). Just thinking out loud. Forge and E. Market is still "downtown". It's just completely underdeveloped in that area. The area bordered by Market, Forge, Goodkirk, Perkins, and Union is just an enormous grass field twice the size of our football stadium. You could put an arena there and a major parking lot, and still leave enough spaces for businesses to develop along Market that would compliment an arena, like restaurants. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave in Green Posted February 17, 2012 Report Share Posted February 17, 2012 One thing that would help reduce the cost of a new arena would be to use existing parking facilities. Parking decks are much more efficient uses of space than parking lots. There are plenty of parking decks downtown to support a new arena. There are also several parking decks on campus that could be used to support an on-campus arena if it was built in the right location. One of my occasionally reliable sources recently mentioned to me that a leading location candidate for a new on-campus arena would be where the baseball field is presently located, with the baseball field to be relocated. If there's any substance to this, then the new arena would be about as close to UA's Exchange Street parking deck as the JAR is to the East Campus parking deck. Another possibility that I mentioned in a previous thread would be to locate a new on-campus arena in the area between the JAR and the East Campus deck. This area is mostly parking lots plus a couple of small structures that could either be torn down or relocated to another area on campus. This has a couple of advantages, such as allowing for connection of the new arena to the JAR and continued use of the East Campus parking deck for basketball fans. You could even have an elevated, covered walkway over Spicer Street from the parking deck to the new arena, which would allow fans to get from their cars into the arena without having to walk outside. Really, there are many different scenarios that could be made to work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zipmeister Posted February 18, 2012 Report Share Posted February 18, 2012 A little bit off topic but... a couple weeks ago I went into one of my professor's offices to meet with him. I walked into his office and the seats were like four connected wooden chairs. I sat down and didn't immediately put the pieces together and while examining it said "this is, uh, this is a bench?" He told me that it was a set of chairs from Memorial Hall. Pretty cool huh? Cool. I did try to get a couple of tiles from the pool in Memorial Hall, but by the time I asked, according to the AD, the pool was covered with lots of dirt. I do, however, have in my office a hunk of the first artificial surface ever put down at the Rubber Bowl. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lance99 Posted February 18, 2012 Report Share Posted February 18, 2012 I was watching Newsnite Akron and this was a topic. I hate it that they went strait back to the crossing the tracks project from 20 years ago. It seems like even the local media even has no idea on what to do on this subject. The person who said this(Jody Miller) is totally stuck in the past. If there is a disconnect from the University and the City like the show suggest, maybe this can be solved Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottditzen Posted February 24, 2012 Report Share Posted February 24, 2012 Agree it's a good policy to use parking structures that are already there. Surface lots however good for tailgating are just bad for a city. I am not a fan of building on the baseball field or near the JAR. Here's why. I think the campus has already lost too much accessible green space at "Lee Jackson" with all of the athletic uses taking over. Also, the area between the JAR and Exchange Deck would be perfect for some additional beautification/green space areas. A reflection pond is something that would be a really nice addition I think. As more and more development takes place around the U- and according to plans there will be a lot of it- it's going to be extremely important for central campus to become more of an oasis, shielded away from cars and traffic and distractions as much as possible. The arena will require a fairly large footprint, and we only have so much space left. It's a better idea to locate the facility somewhere that can generate the most spinoff development. Unless UA wants to create an on campus entertainment district it makes little sense to locate directly in the middle of campus. I've said this many times, but the Arena District in Columbus is a fine template for success. Adjacent to the Mayflower (future dorms?) has been shown on some plans. We've all seen that. Makes sense. Market Street is an intriguing option worth considering; that could be another win-win for the school/city. Exchange/Rt. 8 near the Info is an entertainment dead zone, I think that's a bad location unless of course there's some major overhaul of the Zip Strip, but even still I think that would be too far from the facility. My wildcard prediction? The arena could be situated amidst the upcoming retail/residential mecca in the area between Exchange and Wheeler. One thing that would help reduce the cost of a new arena would be to use existing parking facilities. Parking decks are much more efficient uses of space than parking lots. There are plenty of parking decks downtown to support a new arena. There are also several parking decks on campus that could be used to support an on-campus arena if it was built in the right location. One of my occasionally reliable sources recently mentioned to me that a leading location candidate for a new on-campus arena would be where the baseball field is presently located, with the baseball field to be relocated. If there's any substance to this, then the new arena would be about as close to UA's Exchange Street parking deck as the JAR is to the East Campus parking deck. Another possibility that I mentioned in a previous thread would be to locate a new on-campus arena in the area between the JAR and the East Campus deck. This area is mostly parking lots plus a couple of small structures that could either be torn down or relocated to another area on campus. This has a couple of advantages, such as allowing for connection of the new arena to the JAR and continued use of the East Campus parking deck for basketball fans. You could even have an elevated, covered walkway over Spicer Street from the parking deck to the new arena, which would allow fans to get from their cars into the arena without having to walk outside. Really, there are many different scenarios that could be made to work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lance99 Posted February 24, 2012 Report Share Posted February 24, 2012 Forge and E. Market is still "downtown". It's just completely underdeveloped in that area. The area bordered by Market, Forge, Goodkirk, Perkins, and Union is just an enormous grass field twice the size of our football stadium. You could put an arena there and a major parking lot, and still leave enough spaces for businesses to develop along Market that would compliment an arena, like restaurants. I actually thought about that location. There is 2 major issues with that. The first one is Summa owns the property and they would have to sell. The second one is the Haven of Rest and they are not moving. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZZZips Posted February 24, 2012 Report Share Posted February 24, 2012 I actually thought about that location. There is 2 major issues with that. The first one is Summa owns the property and they would have to sell. The second one is the Haven of Rest and they are not moving. 1. Summa does not own a singe lot within those boundaries. All are owned by the City of Akron except for the former Martin Chevy lot which I believe was purchsed by either the city or UPA. 2. The Haven of Rest is several blocks to the west of those boundaries. 3. UPA has this area targeted for a mix of business, retail and apartment development. No chance of an arena on this spot when the Mayor prefers the Mayflower block on Main St. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lance99 Posted February 24, 2012 Report Share Posted February 24, 2012 1. Summa does not own a singe lot within those boundaries. All are owned by the City of Akron except for the former Martin Chevy lot which I believe was purchsed by either the city or UPA. 2. The Haven of Rest is several blocks to the west of those boundaries. 3. UPA has this area targeted for a mix of business, retail and apartment development. No chance of an arena on this spot when the Mayor prefers the Mayflower block on Main St. Are you sure? My understanding was that Summa bought the Martin lot. BTW, I worked at Martin in 2004-2005 and the Haven was a huge issue at night Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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