UB at Akron

[zippy5]

This coming from the poster who is ready to let Convicted Drug Dealer Alex Abreu come back to play next year, pardon me for not exactly taking your assessment of other players as dirty with any seriousness.

Ha, nice try at getting personal, but can you argue with a word I said?

PS - I said I'm fine with him returning IF Dambrot is okay with it. I've said he knows a heck of a lot more of the situation than any of us.

[ZachTheZip]

Can't State fans swore up and down that Chris Singletary was a clean player. Reality was that he was just really good at hiding his punches, until a camera caught it at just the right angle one day.

McCrea leaves the same trail of crumpled up opponents in his wake. This isn't a one-time thing that just Akron fans talk about.

Getting back to the thing with Kretzer this season, the problem I had with is is that they called a foul on him for getting his head busted open by another player's elbow. How does that work?

[ubxcretired]

Getting back to the thing with Kretzer this season, the problem I had with is is that they called a foul on him for getting his head busted open by another player's elbow. How does that work?

That would be the same terrible MAC reffing that we've all had to become accustomed to. Also - remember, the thing with Kretzer didn't involve McCrea. Every team in the conference has fallen victim to the awfulness that is MAC officiating at one point or another this season. Sadly, this is just one more example of this.

Anyways, I think we've veered far enough off topic as to whether McCrea is deserving of the POY award - which is about the only thing here that can be argued objectively. I didn't come here to argue that I think McCrea is a decent human being while you guys don't. I came to present a reason why he deserves POY - which I've done - so, I think I'll leave it at that. Perhaps we'll see you in Cleveland.

[Balsy]

@ubxcretired That we can both agree on. MAC officiating is HORRIBLE.

[johnnyzip84]

This coming from the poster who is ready to let Convicted Drug Dealer Alex Abreu come back to play next year, pardon me for not exactly taking your assessment of other players as dirty with any seriousness.

It's not the smoking gun your fans are making it out to be. it was hard contact, probably not totally clean, but does not paint McCrea with the brush strokes your fanbase has within this thread.

I agree with zippy5 that Javon can be both POY and a player who, at the very least, bends the rules. I haven’t seen enough incidents to label him as a thug or dirty player, but the shot to Jake’s lower back/side was clearly cheap. I think it bothers Zip fans even more because it wasn’t called. In fact, he used it to his advantage to score a “cheap” 2.

I have another question for our U@B visitor. Why did Hurley take McCrea out of the game so early in the 1^st half (3 minutes and change) when the Zips made their opening run? Was #12 at full strength?

[Dr Z]

[Zipgrad01]

Back and to the left....back and to the left....back and to the left

[Valpo Zip]

That foul wasn't called simply because Jake got up and tried to be a tough guy and play. Go back to the Singletary/Linhart video - No foul was immediately called. Only when Linhart rolled on the ground in clear pain did the refs go to the screen and decide that Singletary doesn't belong on a basketball court.

With MAC refs, being a tough no BS player doesn't get you any where. Being a whiny clown like Hurley does.

Back to the topic at hand: technically speaking, character on the side, McRea is the POY even if his team gets out of the first round of the tournament. There is no shame in admitting that.

P.S: @ubxcretired - Count me as another Zips fan who enjoy reading your posts. I don't always agree with all you say, but enjoy it nevertheless.

[skip-zip]

McCrea leans into the contact. sorry no way to spin it, it's a dirty hit. We don't have to make much of a leap at all...it's pretty clear; physics.

Exactly. There is no other way to see that. Only a hard shot to the lower back would make someone topple like that from behind. Especially someone as strong as Kretzer. Not a screen. Not by any stretch of the imagination.

[skip-zip]

It's not the smoking gun your fans are making it out to be. it was hard contact, probably not totally clean, but does not paint McCrea with the brush strokes your fanbase has within this thread.

Just an FYI:

I'll be kind and just let you know that lunging forward, arms extending, with both forearms and fists to the lower back is NOT a screen. Not even remotely close.

You asked for video. You got video. You can't possibly find a way to dispute what we can all see.

[userduders]

This coming from the poster who is ready to let Convicted Drug Dealer Alex Abreu come back to play next year, pardon me for not exactly taking your assessment of other players as dirty with any seriousness.

It's not the smoking gun your fans are making it out to be. it was hard contact, probably not totally clean, but does not paint McCrea with the brush strokes your fanbase has within this thread.

I have been watching basketball for a long time, I have never seen a screen like that before. He is creating alot of contact...

I personally don't know McCrea, he could be a great guy. However, I do watch him on the court and find him to be a dirty player. I appreciate your passion but I don't know how you can spin this. It's also not just this play, it is a body of work. I have seen McCrea play chippy for four years now. He is deserving of the POY, I will not argue the fact but I do think he gets away with alot on the court.

BTW I love this is becoming a heated rivalry and hope we can meet again in Cleveland!

[GoZips]

This is sufficient to permenantly DIS-QUALIFY Javon McCrea as player of the year.

Pete Rose was a great baseball player. And, a cheat. Touche' with McCrea.

What no one has yet mentioned is that Jake Kretzer had to have hospital attention after the game. Jake had a football sized

black and blue bruise on his back for several days.

If this had been a solitary occurence it could be regaurded as out of character. Truth is, McCrea

has a history of such incidents. MAC coaches have frequently been out spoken about his behavior.

Unfortunately, moronic sports writers, not college coaches, vote for POY.. Not a single MAC coach would vote for McCrea.

[skip-zip]

Unfortunately, moronic sports writers, not college coaches, vote for POY.. Not a single MAC coach would vote for McCrea.

Not even Hurley? I'm tellin ya, this Hurley/McCrea union for one year seems like a match made in heaven to me.

I wonder what UB fans will honestly say about all of this, after McCrea is gone this year, and Hurley jumps ship for another job if he caps off a successful season with a few more wins.

[ubxcretired]

This is sufficient to permenantly DIS-QUALIFY Javon McCrea as player of the year.

.......

Not a single MAC coach would vote for McCrea.

Holy hyperbole batman! Not a single MAC coach? Actually.... not even worth my time. If this is the frame of reference you are coming from... no really, not worth my time.

[Dr Z]

I guess I'm in the minority, I appriciated when Bosley and Andrick played a physical game for the Zips. Opened up a lot of shots, and got us to the charity stripe. Basketball is a physical game. McCrea's play was a foul.

[Balsy]

Holy hyperbole batman! Not a single MAC coach? Actually.... not even worth my time. If this is the frame of reference you are coming from... no really, not worth my time.

I think it's nice to have fans of other teams comment on our board...so don't take this the wrong way ubxcretired...but what did you expect? You "came here to have a thoughtful conversation" about POY. I've read one thoughtful comment from you, the rest have been close to a troll response.

GoZips does bring up a good point, and happens to be privy to sourced information that most are not. Don't just blindly support players from your team without giving it thought.

Don't just dismiss good points by saying "not even worth my time" because than...it's no longer a meaningful dialogue about POY, but just a troll being a troll.

Are you seriously suggesting McCrea doesn't have a history of somewhat dirty history? POY don't play dirty IMO.

[ubxcretired]

Not trolling at all. Simply set out to present an objective, performance stats based counter argument to GoZips argument pages ago:

Correct.

Steve French pissed me off in the post game show when he stated that he intends to vote for Javon "I cheap shotted Jake Kretzer"

McCrea for MAC player of the year. Based on what? McCrea's dominating performance tonight? Bull crap. Mc Crea got intimidated and shut down by the REAL MAC Player of the Year, Demetrius "Tree" Treadwell.

Six thumbs down for your lamed ass comment you non-Zip radio announcer.

Statistically, McCrea has had a better performance this year. Period.

And talk about not blindly supporting players. Tree's no saint - McCrea may play aggressive bball - but unlike Treadwell, he doesn't have an arrest record to answer to -

http://arrestnation.com/tag/university-of-akron-demetrius-treadwell-arrested/

http://www.ohio.com/news/local/zips-basketball-player-suspended-after-2-a-m-arrest-in-merriman-valley-bar-fight-1.247988

GoZips may be privy to insider information, but his statement is completely ridiculous. He's claiming that at the same time he thinks that McCrea should be permanently removed from consideration for POY, the award should go to a player who attacked a DJ at 2 am in a club, and then tried to flee. If he's able to have that sort of disconnect, then, wow.

Furthermore, I'll take my players playing aggressively on the court over attacking a night club DJ - without exception or hesitation.

I hadn't brought up the Treadwell arrest as I was keeping to performance as a resume for POY (as it should be) - but GoZips support of Treadwell while saying that Javon should be DQ'd from consideration forever makes it relevant, while at the same time - you're going with this:

Don't just blindly support players from your team without giving it thought.

Pot meet kettle?

You see McCrea's performance through yellow colored glasses, I see it through blue.

I don't think he's a dirty player - and - your fanbase's opinion (or mine) on this has no bearing on the POY anyways - POY is simply, who was the best overall player in the MAC this year. Without question - McCrea trumps Treadwell by every objective measure.

[zippy5]

While I've said I think McCrea is POY, I don't think off the court behavior has anything to do with POY discussion. And while I don't think Javon's dirty play should have anything to do with voting, it makes a little more sense to hold that against him than a night out for Tree.

[K92]

You see McCrea's performance through yellow colored glasses, I see it through blue.

Now, them's fightin' words.

[Dave in Green]

@ubxcretired, maybe I spoke too soon. Seems as if you're drifting away from the path of good data and throwing any crap you can find at the wall to see what sticks. Fact is that Jake Kretzer had be examined at a hospital for what appeared in the video to be a minor bump with your MVP. Jake had a severe bruise on his back about the size of your MVP's big fist. Zips fans understand exactly how that works as we went through it when Chris Singletary's fist accidentally ended up in Nate Linhart's gut in a seemingly minor contact. Singletary was tossed from the game, all the while pleading with the refs what a sweet, innocent guy he was, and your MVP should also have been tossed. No amount of crap you try to throw at the wall changes any of that. The only thing that changes as you throw more crap at the wall is that we Zips fans start putting Bulls fans like you in the same boat with your MVP.

[Dave in Green]

A little reminder for those who may not have been around for the Singletary sneak attack. The video is several minutes long and points out the importance of having multiple camera angles to catch sneaky thugs. The clear shot of what really happened isn't shown until near the end.

Chris Singletary Sucker Punches Nate Linhart During Akron Vs Can't State Game

[Balsy]

@Dave +1. I tried to find that video again now I'm saving it just so I have it.

[ubxcretired]

@ubxcretired, maybe I spoke too soon. Seems as if you're drifting away from the path of good data and throwing any crap you can find at the wall to see what sticks. Fact is that Jake Kretzer had be examined at a hospital for what appeared in the video to be a minor bump with your MVP. Jake had a severe bruise on his back about the size of your MVP's big fist. Zips fans understand exactly how that works as we went through it when Chris Singletary's fist accidentally ended up in Nate Linhart's gut in a seemingly minor contact. Singletary was tossed from the game, all the while pleading with the refs what a sweet, innocent guy he was, and your MVP should also have been tossed. No amount of crap you try to throw at the wall changes any of that. The only thing that changes as you throw more crap at the wall is that we Zips fans start putting Bulls fans like you in the same boat with your MVP.

My point in bringing up the Treadwell arrest was to point out the absurdity of the statement made by GoZips that prompted me to jump in this fray in the first place - for someone to say that McCrea doesn't deserve POY based upon a play last year and Treadwell does is putting blinders on.

Neither the Treadwell arrest or the McCrea - Kretzer play have any bearing on the POY.

Most people responding are agreeing that while you may not like McCrea, he's put up the numbers to deserve the honor. I'm not going to try and convince you that McCrea's a swell guy - we both know convincing zips fans of that is a fools errand. If the stat lines were reversed however (or if Treadwell has the numbers next year to justify POY), Treadwell's arrest would not weigh on my mind in the least as to whether or not he's deserving.

[skip-zip]

I wonder how much of the frustration and defensiveness has to do with Buffalo getting their A$$e$ handed to them on Tuesday night?

Jealousy can cloud facts when you haven't even sniffed a title, while your counterpart has won 3 titles in the last 5 yrs.

[GJGood]

Now, them's fightin' words.

Yellow? Wow. It may have been unintentional but, WOW!

As far as MAC POY goes it is usually quite political anyway. McCrea would have the edge on Treadwell not just because of raw numbers but also because it is his final year playing. I am not going to argue against McCrea over Treadwell for POY.

I would say, though, that Treadwell would be more deserving if it was a MVP award. There were nights when Tree seemed like the only option this year with all the players missing and the cold outside shooting we have seen at times during the season. I would argue that McCrea's supporting cast was more consistent, not better, just more consistent. For MVPs I try to look at how I think a team would've done if that player was absent. For this year I think UB without McCrea would have been better than UA without Tree (given all the other things that happened as well)

Of course if it were an MVP there may be some players on some of the teams farther down in the MAC pack that were even more valuable to their own teams than even Tree is to the Zips, I just can't think of one off-hand, I guess Majok Majok comes to mind but asking where Ball State would be without him may give you the same answer as where they actually are.

POY= McCrea MVP= Treadwell At least that is how I see it and even though I don't know how I'd feel about either of their personalities off the court, I am basing this on what happened on the court and only in the 2013-14 season.