UA to Renovate the JAR

[Balsy]

I thought graduations were in EJ Thomas. Even the local high school ones.

Not all apparently. I'd be willing to be more HS do it than just Medina. I graduated in the JAR, as did my sister. (From HS that is). Medina City Schools rents the JAR for the purpose. From Medina City School's website:

Note: My sister graduated in '05...and they had been using the JAR for at least 5 years before that. So Medina City Schools has been using the JAR for graduation ceremonies for at least 15 years. Doesn't leave a lasting impression of UA in my home town.

Saturday, May 23, 2015

1:00pm

Commencement

WhenSat, May 23, 2015, 1pm – 3pm

WhereJAR Arena, University of Akron (map)

more details» copy to my calendar

[K92]

The 4,400-seat Stroh Center replaced the old (1960) 4,700-seat Anderson Arena, so BG gave up only 300 seats in exchange for a much nicer facility with all chairback seating for a total cost of $30 million. It makes an interesting recent case study of the attendance bump of a new arena with an Ohio-based MAC team that's had a fairly flat won-lost record before and after the transition.

Average home game attendance went from about 1,550 the last 5 seasons in Anderson Arena to about 1,950 the first 3 seasons in the Stroh Center for an average improvement of about 400 more per home game, which equates to a 25% increase.

The Zips have averaged about 3,300 per home game over the past 5 seasons, or more than double what BG averaged in the 5 seasons before their new arena opened. If the Zips could generate the same 25% attendance increase with a new arena that BG did, that would produce an average home game attendance increase of about 825 to about 4,125 per game, assuming the team's won-lost record remained as flat as BG's has been.

Here's the old/new arena attendance for BG:

1,403 -- 2006-2007 (13-18)

1,352 -- 2007-2008 (13-17)

1,729 -- 2008-2009 (19-14)

1,709 -- 2009-2010 (14-16)

1,574 -- 2010-2011 (14-19)

------------------------------------

2,157 -- 2011-2012 (16-16)

1,992 -- 2012-2013 (13-19)

1,759 -- 2013-2014 (12-20)

This data should destroy the whole "shitty facility is keeping fans away" argument but it won't.

[Zipgrad01]

This is easily refuted because all you have to do is look at the stands. Students (though already few in regular games) is double, even triple when school is in session. And yes it is a good reason because a lot of students travel over the break, a lot of them don't know the schedule off the top of their head (neither do students at big schools like State Ohio)...they show up because they saw there was a "game tonight" when they were on campus and decided to go. The attendance last night was almost identical to any other night. The normal alumni and members of the community who are always there, were there. So I don't get what you're going for here.

I do agree that the vast majority of Alumni don't care...but why should they? We play in a HS arena. Anyone from my HS would think Akron's small time, because we do our graduation ceremonies in the JAR. You absolutely can blame attendance on an arena. Why should students give a damn about the team while they're in college, when they play in the dump that is the JAR? It's not that enjoyable of an experience, especially when it makes you feel like you're in HS again.

I do agree that we need to start making some noise. Every time we have the chance to, we fall short.

Excuses, excuses. We have a large enough enrollment and small enough arena that it shouldn't matter. If students were that interested in attending games they would, whether school is in session or not. The problem is that there are many other options to do right now and those rank higher on their priority list than attending UA basketball games.

[zippy5]

It's not just the shitty facility. It's the shitty facility, a shitty home schedule and a shitty game day atmosphere. Fix one or two of those and I do think attendance would be pretty decent. As it is, it's a perfect storm of mediocre attendance.

[Spin]

My guess is, the only reason you build a NEW 4,400 seat arena is if it works for the kind of crowd size history you need, and you have no aspirations to get to a bigger league. I know someone who's very involved in BG athletics, and he claims it works well for them. So be it. And they are getting some conveniences that they never had before.

Several of us on this forum have said we would attend a lot more games if we had a comfortable place to go. Just like when the Lil Indians moved from Thurmon Munson Rec League Softball Field to Canal Park. I'm still waiting for someone to explain how that wouldn't work here.

I'm really starting to think it's a waste of time to post an opposing view on this forum. If you can't objectively look at what others have said, there is no conversation.

[LZIp]

Excuses, excuses. We have a large enough enrollment and small enough arena that it shouldn't matter. If students were that interested in attending games they would, whether school is in session or not. The problem is that there are many other options to do right now and those rank higher on their priority list than attending UA basketball games.

I mean the students broke attendance records numerous times a few years ago when the team was on the winning streak. That's all it really boils down to. Giving them something to watch that they feel is worth their time. We've never beaten anyone that anyone cares about, so it doesnt matter. We are on the longest winning streak in the nation and getting national recognition? Students went to the games. Play and beat some teams that student have heard of and they'll take note. Do it consistently and attendance will rise permanently.

the 20 win/year streak is nice, but nobody gives a crap about it outside of the program because when you look at it, its with teams nobody has ever heard of and the MAC.

[Spin]

Another issue that is out of our control, and this is a chicken-egg argument, is the lack of media coverage. The Cleveland televised media pretends we don't exist and always has. After a few generations of this it really is in the zeitgeist of the community that UA athletics is irrelevant. Did the Beacon do a pregame story the day of the game. I don't believe so. The only way the community knows what's going on at UA is through the UA marketing department, and we've had some rather depressing and lengthy discussions about them as well.

I don't think that matters as much as you do. Less people are paying attention to local media outlets. Akron Soccer attendance during the good years is a perfect example, and the Aeros attendance records. And I remember when indoor soccer drew 18,000+ to the Big House on the Prarie and the media (especially the sports media) absolutely HATED indoor soccer. They kind of warmed up later to the Crunch, about the same time we had arena football, but it was still nothing compared to the big three. And they packed the Convo for playoff games. Tons of examples of big crowds at events that the media didn't cover.

All I hear are excuses. Nobody wants to look at other local examples.

[Spin]

I mean the students broke attendance records numerous times a few years ago when the team was on the winning streak. That's all it really boils down to. Giving them something to watch that they feel is worth their time. We've never beaten anyone that anyone cares about, so it doesnt matter. We are on the longest winning streak in the nation and getting national recognition? Students went to the games. Play and beat some teams that student have heard of and they'll take note. Do it consistently and attendance will rise permanently.

the 20 win/year streak is nice, but nobody gives a crap about it outside of the program because when you look at it, its with teams nobody has ever heard of and the MAC.

Why doesn't the basketball program play against schools that have famous football programs and vice versa? I always thought the name recognition would draw eyes when we beat them.

For example, Auburn, FSU, Boise State, and Oregon in basketball.

[Blue & Gold]

Why doesn't the basketball program play against schools that have famous football programs and vice versa? I always thought the name recognition would draw eyes when we beat them.

For example, Auburn, FSU, Boise State, and Oregon in basketball.

Penn State & USC were perfect opponents in this regard. Mediocre basketball but great name recognition.

[Staton14]

Not all apparently. I'd be willing to be more HS do it than just Medina. I graduated in the JAR, as did my sister. (From HS that is). Medina City Schools rents the JAR for the purpose. From Medina City School's website:

Note: My sister graduated in '05...and they had been using the JAR for at least 5 years before that. So Medina City Schools has been using the JAR for graduation ceremonies for at least 15 years. Doesn't leave a lasting impression of UA in my home town.

Saturday, May 23, 2015

1:00pm

Commencement

WhenSat, May 23, 2015, 1pm – 3pm

WhereJAR Arena, University of Akron (map)

more details» copy to my calendar

Interesting. I never knew it was used for graduations. I agree that isn't the first impression you want to give high school students and their families.

[a-zip]

This is easily refuted because all you have to do is look at the stands. Students (though already few in regular games) is double, even triple when school is in session. And yes it is a good reason because a lot of students travel over the break, a lot of them don't know the schedule off the top of their head (neither do students at big schools like State Ohio)...they show up because they saw there was a "game tonight" when they were on campus and decided to go. The attendance last night was almost identical to any other night. The normal alumni and members of the community who are always there, were there. So I don't get what you're going for here.

I do agree that the vast majority of Alumni don't care...but why should they? We play in a HS arena. Anyone from my HS would think Akron's small time, because we do our graduation ceremonies in the JAR. You absolutely can blame attendance on an arena. Why should students give a damn about the team while they're in college, when they play in the dump that is the JAR? It's not that enjoyable of an experience, especially when it makes you feel like you're in HS again.

I do agree that we need to start making some noise. Every time we have the chance to, we fall short.

Then how do you explain the lack of attendance at the Info? Let me guess….

Even though football has a beautiful stadium it doesn't win enough……

Basketball wins tons of games but has a HS arena…...

Soccer attendance is down because we didn't win another national championship…….

Excuses, excuses….

Renovate the JAR, Build the Greek Village and put it right between the JAR and Info. See what that does.

[Balsy]

Then how do you explain the lack of attendance at the Info? Let me guess….

Even though football has a beautiful stadium it doesn't win enough……

Basketball wins tons of games but has a HS arena…...

Soccer attendance is down because we didn't win another national championship…….

Excuses, excuses….

Renovate the JAR, Build the Greek Village and put it right between the JAR and Info. See what that does.

Each of those are relatively accurate with attendance, they're not excuses, they're facts.

The greatest flux in attendance...the No. 1 contributor to whether or not attendance goes up or down at UA is students. Student involvement is the single greatest impact on attendance.

1. Info is new, but they always lose there. 2014 is the first time in the history of that stadium that we had above .500 record at home

.

2. JAR is crap. The trends of attendance are exactly the same year-to-year, I don't know why people are so surprised. There's always horrible attendance this time of the year, and that largely can be associated with...(drum roll please)...students not being there. It always bumps upward around MAC season, because there's more students around campus. Still not "sell-outs" because (unless it's going to be a BIG opponent)...no one wants to sit through an awful game in that toilet.

3. Same as above with students. Attendance was best for soccer during the National Championship run, and the year afterwards where we were defending a 40-game home win streak. Students want to show up for that. Fun environment. Lose against non-quality opponents, and lose in the first round of the NCAA...students stop showing up. It's just how it is.

I do agree with a rejuvenation of Greek village. I do think that will be a positive improvement.

[UAZip0510]

I'd simplify things:

1) Replace the bleachers with chair-backs. I think this would make a major difference. My wife won't go to a game if we're sitting in the bleachers, and I don't think she's alone on that.

2) Unify the student section. This has to happen. The section(s) aren't big enough to make a big enough impact on the game, even if students do show up.

3) Re-brand the student section. I know this won't be popular with some, but calling them the AK-Rowdies makes it seem like a group you have to join. Name the section itself and welcome all students. And hey, the current AK-Rowdies can have a faction within that section if they want.

4) Replace the jumbotron. We need something HD...the jumbotron is the first thing you notice at an arena.

5) Increase marketing. What happened to some of the things we were starting to see? We can give away free tuition at a football game but not at a basketball game? I thought the giveaways of the replica ring, LeBron bobblehead, and Dambrot bobblehead gave nice boosts to attendance as well, and probably made the folks in attendance feel better when they took something cool home with them. I've said it before, but something like a Romeo Travis/Dru Joyce set of bobbleheads would be cool.

6) Improve the team shop. Having people rely on calling an outside business to get their high-quality Zips gear is unacceptable. It's hard to get mad at people wearing OSU stuff around campus when the selection of Zips stuff is so limited. If they're worried about a product not selling, do online orders like they did with the black jerseys and shorts.

[Dave in Green]

What kind of evidence is there to support the theory that having higher-profile opponents at the JAR would significantly increase attendance at home games? Following are the top teams that have played in the JAR in recent years comparing their attendance to the Zips' average home game attendance that season:

2011-2012: VCU, 3,993 vs. 3,440 average (+16%)

2010-2011: Creighton, 2,861 vs. 2,821 average (+1%)

2007-2008: Temple, 2,309 vs. 3,454 average (-33%)

2007-2008: VCU, 4,098 vs. 3,454 average (+19%)

2006-2007: Nevada, 3,302 vs. 3,593 average (-8%)

VCU and Creighton are nationally recognized mid-major powers, Temple has one of the winningest programs in NCAA history and Nevada was ranked in the Top 25 when they visited Akron. These are examples of the best teams that could realistically be expected to agree to play at the JAR. Yet they did not produce much local interest and some of the games actually drew smaller crowds than average. Even the best VCU game drew less than 75% capacity.

[Staton14]

We all complain about attendance but it could be a lot worse. There are five (out of 12 other) d-1 schools in Ohio that have worse attendance than Akron, including all three of the others in NE Ohio (Can't State, CSU, YSU). Although, to be fair, they haven't been as successful in recent years.

[Balsy]

Excuses, excuses. We have a large enough enrollment and small enough arena that it shouldn't matter. If students were that interested in attending games they would, whether school is in session or not. The problem is that there are many other options to do right now and those rank higher on their priority list than attending UA basketball games.

The question is why are they a higher priority....they're a higher priority because of shitty arena, shitty schedule, shitty game-day experience. If each of those were improved, the priority of attending UA basketball games will increase for some. I've never argued that w'ere going to see sell-outs every game, but it would improve. I just don't like the idea of dumping what limited resources we have into putting lipstick on the JAR. It's a dump

[Balsy]

UAZip0510 I love each of those and think those are great. I think they'd improve the overall experience, and cost considerably less than 30 million. If it will cost 30 million, let's build a new stadium.

[Dave in Green]

As mentioned earlier, over the last 5 years the Zips have averaged about 3,300 attendance at all home games. The JAR's capacity of 5,500/3,300 attendance works out to 60% of seats sold for all home games. How does that compare with other schools? Fortunately the NCAA has a statistical database that includes the capacity of each team arena and attendance for every NCAA game. In a study comparing attendance for D-I women's basketball vs. men's basketball, the following data was revealed in a table at the end of the paper:

52.63% = average home attendance/capacity for all 2012-2013 D-I men's teams

So as bad as the Zips' 60% attendance/capacity average may seem, it's actually comfortably above the NCAA average. Zips fans are certainly envious of the exceptional schools like Duke that sell out every home game every season. But we tend to forget that for every Duke there are a bunch of Butlers. Butler is in the heart of basketball crazy Indiana. From 1928-1989 Hinkle Fieldhouse had a capacity of 15,000. In 1989 capacity was reduced to 11,000 and in 2009 to 10,000. Shortly after that last downsizing Butler played in two consecutive NCAA tournament national championship games. During those two seasons and the season following when they were the darlings of college basketball, Butler averaged less than 70% attendance/capacity, not all that much better than the Zips.

[UAZip0510]

UAZip0510 I love each of those and think those are great. I think they'd improve the overall experience, and cost considerably less than 30 million. If it will cost 30 million, let's build a new stadium.

Thanks!

Yeah, I think it'd make a nice middle ground. Modest improvements now that will make an impact but won't cost so much as to put a new arena out of the question.

[ubxcretired]

Put up some Xenon or LED lights that can be seen all the way from Canada

You mean Buffalo?

[a-zip]

Earlier this year our football team came off a promising run from 2013, had one loss AT Penn State 21-3 (which I find respectable), we then came home to a semi-marquise team Marshall, students were in school and what was the attendance on a 73 degree day……..13,000. I promise you at least half of the 13K were Marshall fans BTW. Is there an excuse for that?

I am not not just here to bitch and complain about the lethargy in attendance, it is what it is. My feelings are based on the FACTS and history, not excuses and speculation about the quality of the seats/venue, game schedules, quality of opponents, wins/losses. All of those variables never seem to change attendance and enthusiasm for the teams in my opinion.

The only thing I can think of is building a cool greek village right in the middle of the sports facilities. Frats/Sororities are enthusiastic students and could be a great way to get the students partying, excited and then go to a game.

[ZachTheZip]

The worst thing about the JAR sn't the bad seats, or the blurry video board, or the glitchy stat boards, or the lackluster concessions, or the seating layout, or the teams on the floor. It's the fans. They complain when others stand up and they complain if you cheer too loudly. They complain about the team, and about the gameday experience. They complain to everyone who will listen and to everyone who just wants to enjoy a basketball game.

Get rid of them and the JAR would be an alright place.

[Spin]

Then how do you explain the lack of attendance at the Info? Let me guess….

Even though football has a beautiful stadium it doesn't win enough……

Basketball wins tons of games but has a HS arena…...

Soccer attendance is down because we didn't win another national championship…….

Excuses, excuses….

Renovate the JAR, Build the Greek Village and put it right between the JAR and Info. See what that does.

Earlier this year our football team came off a promising run from 2013, had one loss AT Penn State 21-3 (which I find respectable), we then came home to a semi-marquise team Marshall, students were in school and what was the attendance on a 73 degree day……..13,000. I promise you at least half of the 13K were Marshall fans BTW. Is there an excuse for that?

I am not not just here to bitch and complain about the lethargy in attendance, it is what it is. My feelings are based on the FACTS and history, not excuses and speculation about the quality of the seats/venue, game schedules, quality of opponents, wins/losses. All of those variables never seem to change attendance and enthusiasm for the teams in my opinion.

The only thing I can think of is building a cool greek village right in the middle of the sports facilities. Frats/Sororities are enthusiastic students and could be a great way to get the students partying, excited and then go to a game.

Apples to oranges.

I bet if we built a basketball arena and the team had 6 winning seasons in its 28 years in D1, and was 3-23 every year, nobody would waste their time and money going to their games either.

Summit County broke attendance records in indoor freakin' soccer and minor league baseball. Imagine what a college basketball program could do with modern marketing and a modern facility.

Or continue to think small, be small. Do you want to be Division 1 (and act like it) or not???

[ZachTheZip]

I don't know if it's been mentioned yet, but the total construction cost for the JAR was only $12.5 million, or $28.4 adjusted for inflation.

Even after adjusting, it's both difficult to believe that a D-I school could build any kind of arena for that price, and disheartening to know that that's exactly what UA did and we're stuck with the results.

Even worse, that price was originally supposed to be $8 million for a 10,000 seat arena as presented to the state, but somehow construction costs rose so rapidly during the years that CSU was blocking the proposal that they had to scale the design back massively and at over 1.5x the proposed cost by the time they broke ground.

[skip-zip]

What kind of evidence is there to support the theory that having higher-profile opponents at the JAR would significantly increase attendance at home games? Following are the top teams that have played in the JAR in recent years comparing their attendance to the Zips' average home game attendance that season:

2011-2012: VCU, 3,993 vs. 3,440 average (+16%)

2010-2011: Creighton, 2,861 vs. 2,821 average (+1%)

2007-2008: Temple, 2,309 vs. 3,454 average (-33%)

2007-2008: VCU, 4,098 vs. 3,454 average (+19%)

2006-2007: Nevada, 3,302 vs. 3,593 average (-8%)

VCU and Creighton are nationally recognized mid-major powers, Temple has one of the winningest programs in NCAA history and Nevada was ranked in the Top 25 when they visited Akron. These are examples of the best teams that could realistically be expected to agree to play at the JAR. Yet they did not produce much local interest and some of the games actually drew smaller crowds than average. Even the best VCU game drew less than 75% capacity.

Dave, This is some very interesting stuff.

A few thoughts.....

1) How bad is our luck sometimes, when Temple was a WIN and the fewest number of people were there to see it? This one is also the greatest mystery as to why nobody was there. I can't figure out why that day would have been a problem. Did we have some major snowstorm or something? The number would indicate that there was almost NO walkup sales, since we probably had that many tickets sold beforehand.

2) I think sticking a home game against a fairly recognizable opponent (there's no home runs in this list), very infrequently, into a weak home lineup of OOC games is probably not going to catch the attention of too many of the "Joe Akrons" who aren't continuously paying attention to Zips athletics.

3) The most recent one, the 2011 VCU game, worked so well because there was so much Buzz leading up to the game, Keith vs. Shaka, and the introduction of Terry Bowden. One of the very few times we've ever created a "you gotta be there" buzz in the local community over a Zips basketball game.

4) The timing of the Nevada game in 2006 was just absolutely horrible. That could have been a huge night for Zips basketball. Unfortunately, it was right at the beginning of Christmas weekend. Even I didn't make it because we were already on the road heading out of town to stay with family for the holiday. I'm still mad that I missed that one. What a thrilling finish, coming up just a bit short against a then-ranked team at home. When do we ever get that kind of opportunity?

5) I think that beating teams like this is what would have the impact to potential area fans, regardless of whether it's a home game or not. In fact, as much as I want to attend games like this, an ESPN game on the road would have far greater impact. I wonder what would happen to tickets sales if we beat a few of those teams on that list and THEN had one of them coming to the JAR?