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Critiquing Coach Bowden

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6 minutes ago, kreed5120 said:

I'm surprised you don't see more players transfer tbh. When you're a junior and still 3rd on the depth chart odds are you won't be seeing the field much outside of maybe special teams.

I like the new 4 game red-shirt rule. I think it will lead to more parity. Look at Kelly Bryant at Clemson who was strung along for part of the season until he told the freshman QB would be the full time starter going forward. Bryant used it to his advantage and red-shirted because he didn't play in more than 4 games and will now get a chance to make Arkansas better next year.

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13 minutes ago, LZIp said:

I like the new 4 game red-shirt rule. I think it will lead to more parity. Look at Kelly Bryant at Clemson who was strung along for part of the season until he told the freshman QB would be the full time starter going forward. Bryant used it to his advantage and red-shirted because he didn't play in more than 4 games and will now get a chance to make Arkansas better next year.

if he picks Arkansas ;)

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10 minutes ago, LZIp said:

I like the new 4 game red-shirt rule. I think it will lead to more parity. Look at Kelly Bryant at Clemson who was strung along for part of the season until he told the freshman QB would be the full time starter going forward. Bryant used it to his advantage and red-shirted because he didn't play in more than 4 games and will now get a chance to make Arkansas better next year.

It's a nice rule for the players, no doubt. If the NCAA really wanted to move the needle in parity they could reduce the max number of scholarships from 85 to something like 80. That would instantly take 320 scholarships off of P5 squads and instantly add them to G5 teams. Even a reduction of 2-3 scholarships would help. It would never happen though.

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9 hours ago, kreed5120 said:

It's a nice rule for the players, no doubt. If the NCAA really wanted to move the needle in parity they could reduce the max number of scholarships from 85 to something like 80. That would instantly take 320 scholarships off of P5 squads and instantly add them to G5 teams. Even a reduction of 2-3 scholarships would help. It would never happen though.

I would also be in favor of football spending/donation cap. After a certain dollar amounts need to go back into the school in another form or to a charity.

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Kind of strange watching "Zips Football with Terry Bowden"

 

Same opening that they used all season. Once the show started, David Skoczen and Joe Dunn referred to the show as "Zips Football Weekly".

 

Then they just mentioned the team looking for a new coach, never mentioned his name.

 

 

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20 hours ago, kreed5120 said:

It's a nice rule for the players, no doubt. If the NCAA really wanted to move the needle in parity they could reduce the max number of scholarships from 85 to something like 80. That would instantly take 320 scholarships off of P5 squads and instantly add them to G5 teams. Even a reduction of 2-3 scholarships would help. It would never happen though.

 

The NCAA isn't interested in parity, only the illusion of parity.  The only thing that matters is $$$$$$$, plain and simple.  The only thing that will change the focus on $$$$$$ is that a P5 school, with considerable success and $$$$ feels like it's getting cheated and lobbies hard for a change.

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On 12/4/2018 at 10:30 AM, kreed5120 said:

It's a nice rule for the players, no doubt. If the NCAA really wanted to move the needle in parity they could reduce the max number of scholarships from 85 to something like 80. That would instantly take 320 scholarships off of P5 squads and instantly add them to G5 teams. Even a reduction of 2-3 scholarships would help. It would never happen though.

Maybe I'm missing something ...in FBS they have the same number of scholarships...P5 and G5. While most schools bleed money (P5 and G5), the last thing G5 schools need are more scholarships-- it also would further mess with title IX. Akron would do well to leave the MAC (actually the entire MAC should up and move down to FCS)... why this hasn't happened yet is beyond me.

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8 minutes ago, morris buttermaker said:

Maybe I'm missing something ...in FBS they have the same number of scholarships...P5 and G5. While most schools bleed money (P5 and G5), the last thing G5 schools need are more scholarships-- it also would further mess with title IX. Akron would do well to leave the MAC (actually the entire MAC should up and move down to FCS)... why this hasn't happened yet is beyond me.

i don't think he is suggesting adding additional scholarships.

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22 minutes ago, morris buttermaker said:

Maybe I'm missing something ...in FBS they have the same number of scholarships...P5 and G5. While most schools bleed money (P5 and G5), the last thing G5 schools need are more scholarships-- it also would further mess with title IX. Akron would do well to leave the MAC (actually the entire MAC should up and move down to FCS)... why this hasn't happened yet is beyond me.

I worded it poorly. I'm not advocating for P5 schools to have 80 scholarships and G5 teams to have 90. Both would have 80. It's just the cuts at the top would trickle down the talent that is being hoarded on P5 schools benches. There would be cuts at the bottom of G5 rosters too and those players would go towards FCS squads.

Edited by kreed5120
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Bowden deserved another year if for no other reason than UA cannot reasonably justify eating a $500,000 contract given its financial circumstances.

 

Also, while the progrum wasn't where we hoped it would be, Bowden is probably the most successful coach of our D-1 era. One bad season does not justify being fired, particularly given our football history. This was not a prudent decision.

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53 minutes ago, UAZipster0305 said:

Bowden deserved another year if for no other reason than UA cannot reasonably justify eating a $500,000 contract given its financial circumstances.

 

Also, while the progrum wasn't where we hoped it would be, Bowden is probably the most successful coach of our D-1 era. One bad season does not justify being fired, particularly given our football history. This was not a prudent decision.

For one, I don't think the buyout is that high. And two, do you think there are no boosters paying this?

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5 hours ago, UAZipster0305 said:

Bowden deserved another year if for no other reason than UA cannot reasonably justify eating a $500,000 contract given its financial circumstances.

 

Also, while the progrum wasn't where we hoped it would be, Bowden is probably the most successful coach of our D-1 era. One bad season does not justify being fired, particularly given our football history. This was not a prudent decision.

If you really think TB had only one bad season  this discussion is not worth continuing. This was a prudent decision because the team had stopped playing for him and it showed. Financially UA will not end up paying his buyout, just like they didn't pay Faust's. That is being worked out under other budget areas than athletics where TB can be very effective. The decision was further prudent because UA was hurting in ticket sales and sponsorships. TB had lost the paying public. Look at the actual butts in the stands. Our attendance was pathetic. Sometimes less than 1,000 actual bodies in the stadium. & years is enough time to be judged on performance and not wishes or excuses. 

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10 hours ago, 72 Roo said:

If you really think TB had only one bad season  this discussion is not worth continuing. This was a prudent decision because the team had stopped playing for him and it showed. Financially UA will not end up paying his buyout, just like they didn't pay Faust's. That is being worked out under other budget areas than athletics where TB can be very effective. The decision was further prudent because UA was hurting in ticket sales and sponsorships. TB had lost the paying public. Look at the actual butts in the stands. Our attendance was pathetic. Sometimes less than 1,000 actual bodies in the stadium. & years is enough time to be judged on performance and not wishes or excuses.

Well said, 72...this was just as much a business decision as a performance decision.  If you actually watched, in person or on media, the games you couldn't argue that he had lost the team.  And for those that attend the games and are associated with the program voluntarily or professionally you can't help but notice the drop in sponsorships, in corporate interest, in ticket sales, and in even mild interest by casual Akron fans.  And it spills over in to other Zip sports, as casual or even active Zips fans just stop caring about all things Zip related.  It was time....

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3 hours ago, ZipsVoice said:

Well said, 72...this was just as much a business decision as a performance decision.  If you actually watched, in person or on media, the games you couldn't argue that he had lost the team.  

I don't buy the "He lost the team" sentiment. We shut out South Carolina in the second half...if you're a 4-7 MAC school...how do you shut out a bowl-bound SEC team for a full two quarters while you quit on your coach!? We forces four turnovers in that game. If the Zips quit, the score should have been 66-3.

 

Kato is a sophomore that improved over the course of the season. He had a terrible Miami game early, but you'll get that from a QB in his first starting season. Had he stayed healthy, we probably at least win 2-out-of-3 vs EMU, BG and NIU. 

 

If you believe the George Thomas comment that Bowden would have been fired last year if wouldn't have won the MAC East, I contend if Kato didn't get hurt this year, it would have botched Williams plans yet again. 

 

If you want to tell me Bowden needed to go because he'd run his course and we needed new blood...the stands were empty...sponsorships were down...our OL play and RB's were perennially at the bottom of Division 1 football...I would have a tough time arguing it. But I never saw the players quit on the coach. They always played hard. They just didn't have enough talent and depth across the board. 

 

I think the next coach will reap the benefits of what Bowden has assembled here much like Brookhart won his MAC Championship with a large contingent of Owens' players, or Darrell Hazell won at Kent with Doug Martin's guys.

 

Bowden got Kato for the tough "toddler years." The next coach will get him for 2 full seasons in his prime. Add Stewart...Morris...Boogie...Williams...what a great situation to step in to.

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21 minutes ago, Captain Kangaroo said:

I don't buy the "He lost the team" sentiment. We shut out South Carolina in the second half...if you're a 4-7 MAC school...how do you shut out a bowl-bound SEC team for a full two quarters while you quit on your coach!? We forces four turnovers in that game. If the Zips quit, the score should have been 66-3.

 

The team also rolled over down two scores to the 2-8 Bowling Green Falcons on Senior Day this year. You can't tell me the team was playing hard if they can't find the end zone against one of the bottom 5 defenses in 1A. Also, Terry let two timeouts sit in his pocket in the final eight or so minutes of that game down just 15 points...again, against one of the worst defenses in college football. I give the team credit for the final two games of the year, as they were in fact worth tuning into based on the fact that there was some desire. But to say that across the board the effort and desire was there is just false. 

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7 minutes ago, LoyalZIP said:

 

The team also rolled over down two scores to the 2-8 Bowling Green Falcons on Senior Day this year. You can't tell me the team was playing hard if they can't find the end zone against one of the bottom 5 defenses in 1A. 

Kato had all the mobility of Hermann Munster. That kills his game. He's not a pocket passer.

 

With a healthy, sharp Kato we could compete with anybody. With a hobbled, or no Kato, we sucked. That was the fine line we rode towards the end of the year. We rode it with Woodson too. In the past several years we've just never possessed a running game, any semblance of run blocking, or a decent #2 QB. And here we are...

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Just in general when you already don't have a great offensive line to start with and you ask your QB to consistently both extend and create plays with his legs it isn't a matter of if the QB will get injured. It becomes a matter of when. Anyone that expected a 100% Kato Nelson for all 12 games given the way he was playing and the hits he was taking was kidding themselves.

Edited by kreed5120

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The final straw for me was late in the BG game when BG scored with about 6 minutes left in the 4th quarter to go up two scores and the Zips kicking team trotted out to the wrong side of the field for the kickoff.  A small thing, sure, but damn, that was a sad commentary on the team and coaching.

 

I agree that Kato going down hurt.  That being said, anyone can hand the ball off and the Zips averaged 2.9 yards per carry.  Even without your starting QB, you shouldn't get beaten by a 2 win team at home on senior day.  With him, you shouldn't get clobbered by .500 MAC teams at home, squeak by a 1 win team or......aaaaaah hell.  I'll stop before a real rant gets rolling. 

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3 hours ago, Captain Kangaroo said:

Kato had all the mobility of Hermann Munster. That kills his game. He's not a pocket passer.

 

With a healthy, sharp Kato we could compete with anybody. With a hobbled, or no Kato, we sucked. That was the fine line we rode towards the end of the year. We rode it with Woodson too. In the past several years we've just never possessed a running game, any semblance of run blocking, or a decent #2 QB. And here we are...

 

Whether Kato's a damn Heisman trophy contender or the worst QB in Division I has nothing to do with the effort displayed on the field that day. The offensive line doesn't just give up to pass rush like that no matter what the talent difference is on any level. They simply didn't care anymore. Again, because their coach quit on them.

 

Think about some of the successes the team's had the past couple of seasons. When Akron won big games or just won games in general, did you see any players running over to hug their coach or celebrate with him? Did he go out of his way to put the focus on them or did he just forget their names and talk about his time at Auburn instead? I used to see a connection between the players and coaches here, but that was back in the first couple Bowden years. 

 

I've yet to see or hear from any players about how great a leader and inspiration he was to them since he got fired Sunday. No, that's not a scientific measurement of what a coach meant to a player. BUT, I find it very, very odd that so few (if not none) current or former players have come out and said anything of that nature. If I'm wrong, someone please share these testimonials so I can eat my words.

 

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18 minutes ago, LoyalZIP said:

Think about some of the successes the team's had the past couple of seasons. When Akron won big games or just won games in general, did you see any players running over to hug their coach or celebrate with him? Did he go out of his way to put the focus on them or did he just forget their names and talk about his time at Auburn instead? I used to see a connection between the players and coaches here, but that was back in the first couple Bowden years. 

His players stayed at Akron, and graduated from Akron. That tells me they didn't mind playing for him. In a 100 person company you'll always have a few discontented people, but I never saw much complaining about Bowden from players on social media.  I was at several practices and I never heard any negative comments from players about Bowden. They seemed to like him.

 

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12 minutes ago, Captain Kangaroo said:

His players stayed at Akron, and graduated from Akron. That tells me they didn't mind playing for him. In a 100 person company you'll always have a few discontented people, but I never saw much complaining about Bowden from players on social media.  I was at several practices and I never heard any negative comments from players about Bowden. They seemed to like him.

 

images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTOqMK8E249G-P6ke-8mb9

 

Always appreciate your insight on here captain, but might there be some utility to the players fearing their coach a little or respecting him as opposed to liking him?

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1 hour ago, Captain Kangaroo said:

His players stayed at Akron, and graduated from Akron. That tells me they didn't mind playing for him. In a 100 person company you'll always have a few discontented people, but I never saw much complaining about Bowden from players on social media.  I was at several practices and I never heard any negative comments from players about Bowden. They seemed to like him.

 

images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTOqMK8E249G-P6ke-8mb9

 

You seem to have glossed over my point of the "last couple years." And players don't openly complain about coaching at practice where they know donors and fans are present or on social media. I never said anything about players hating the guy or them being miserable playing for him, they just didn't look up to him like so many players on well-coached teams do. I don't want a "bro" coach that isn't professional, but I also don't want someone that constantly calls his players the wrong name in the media or just lets time outs sit in his pocket against the worst defense in the conference. How can you expect effort out of your kids if you don't put effort into them? (That also applies to the non-existent development of players but that's another discussion)

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On 12/5/2018 at 5:51 PM, zippy5 said:

For one, I don't think the buyout is that high. And two, do you think there are no boosters paying this?

 

It doesn't matter. At the very least, the optics of the situation are terrible.

 

This is not OSU. Boosters aren't buying out a major portion of any coach's contract. Their money would be better allocated on addressing our real pressing financial problems. Athletics are a luxury.

 

And yes, I enjoy Akron football. I attend games and listen to or watch them all. I had class with Dwight Smith and Chase Blackburn. I love that we have an NFL HoF'er in Jason Taylor. Our history involving John Heisman and the forward pass are great bits of our history and tradition.

 

I reiterate, suspending a handful of the athletics programs, including football, is the prudent thing to do. If not suspending them, firing Bowden was a terrible decision.

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On 12/5/2018 at 9:47 PM, 72 Roo said:

If you really think TB had only one bad season  this discussion is not worth continuing. This was a prudent decision because the team had stopped playing for him and it showed. Financially UA will not end up paying his buyout, just like they didn't pay Faust's. That is being worked out under other budget areas than athletics where TB can be very effective. The decision was further prudent because UA was hurting in ticket sales and sponsorships. TB had lost the paying public. Look at the actual butts in the stands. Our attendance was pathetic. Sometimes less than 1,000 actual bodies in the stadium. & years is enough time to be judged on performance and not wishes or excuses. 

 

I discount TB's first season. He walked into a true dumpster fire. Beyond that, I don't know what other seasons you are referring to that were terrible. Most wins in a season at D-1, first bowl victory, another bowl appearance, MAC East Champs, student-athletes graduating at a solid rate, no scandals,...those things make him the most successful D-1 coach we've had...and we fired him amid a financial crisis. He should've been retained and maybe even extended with the understanding that Milwee would be demoted or asked to leave.

 

Don't forget, our second most successful D-1 coach (Brookhart, only MACC), and the most successful at the time, was fired by a headlining attempt to open the Info and build the career of an AD...and we got iCoach. At least one AD later and a new best coach, and we are wanting to repeat history.

 

You're delusional. UA doesn't and never has had much of a paying public. And neither does any other G5 school wedged between a national P5/BCS powerhouse and an NFL team. Even if we caught lightning in a bottle with a coach like Fleck, he'd be gone right after and we'd likely be right back to where we've always been. Bowden would have gotten us to OU like stability, and that would have been great for UA. Our version of Frank Solich is fine by me.

Edited by UAZipster0305

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38 minutes ago, UAZipster0305 said:

 

It doesn't matter. At the very least, the optics of the situation are terrible.

 

This is not OSU. Boosters aren't buying out a major portion of any coach's contract. Their money would be better allocated on addressing our real pressing financial problems. Athletics are a luxury.

 

And yes, I enjoy Akron football. I attend games and listen to or watch them all. I had class with Dwight Smith and Chase Blackburn. I love that we have an NFL HoF'er in Jason Taylor. Our history involving John Heisman and the forward pass are great bits of our history and tradition.

 

I reiterate, suspending a handful of the athletics programs, including football, is the prudent thing to do. If not suspending them, firing Bowden was a terrible decision.

Let's do some very simple math. Say average attendance increases a whopping 3k in the new coach's first season here due to a new excitement with the program. The cheapest ticket to get in is $15. Let's say the average ticket price is $20. $20 * 3,000 * 6 = $360k. That isn't including concession revenue either. Bowden's buyout is $300k, IIRC. His buyout will be paid for in the first year (not even including the donors who have apparently helped fund the buyout).  You're also assuming the new coach will be paid equal or more than TB. That won't be the case if someone like Arth comes in. Bottom line - you're being hyperbolic.

Edited by LZIp

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