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John Groce Officially Hired


Dr Z

John Groce as the head coach at Akron  

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  1. 1. What do you think of John Groce?


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  • 2 weeks later...

I've been absent from the board for a while, but have been following consistently ever since.

 

I was a bit shocked to hear KD was leaving, but I am not disappointed or upset. Our program rose to new heights because of him, but it certainly plateaued many years ago. Even he knew that. It was time for him to move on while he was still respected in the profession and young enough to start a new tenure elsewhere.

 

That said, the timing was ideal because Groce was available and interested. Aside from being my doppelganger, Groce is young and has experience winning in the MAC and the NCAAT with a MAC team. New pinnacles await!

 

I think in five years or so, we will find that John Groce is to Keith Dambrot as Caleb Porter is to Ken Lolla. No more excuses about the MAC being a one bid conference or P5's not scheduling us. The bar has been raised.

Edited by UAZipster0305
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  • 3 weeks later...
On 4/5/2017 at 4:20 PM, odhgibo said:

Mike Thomas was quoted in the PD story:  "[W]hen you go through any experience, you should be a lot smarter and a lot better for it."  That reminded me of a former boss who was fond of saying, "Good judgment is the result of experience.  Experience is what you gain from bad judgment."

 

I suspect that Groce arrived in Champaign-Urbana thinking he had the world by the tail.  I hope that he now feels fortunate to be able to continue doing what he loves.

 

 

 

 

I think there is a lot of truth in this post. Groce never struck me as a person who is a climber for fame and fortune sake. I really believe he would have been happy at Illinois for a long time because he had all the resources necessarily to achieve his life goals, personally and professionally. Maybe an opening at Indiana or Ohio State would have tempted him at some point, but he primarily wants to win the NCAA Tourney like everybody else. He learned some valuable lessons at Illinois, no doubt. Some due to poor judgement, but I would argue he learned far more about building a program and competing for elite talent in an unethical and impatient business. I'm sure Coach Groce has even said at his meet-and-greets that he feels blessed to be able to continue doing the job he loves and that he found a great home at the University of Akron. But I don't believe for a moment that he has lost sight of that NCAA Championship dream. Groce is wired to compete on the biggest stage. And this might surprise you, but that actually bodes well for Akron basketball. If the support from fans and the administration matches what will hopefully be great success on the court, you just might become the next Gonzaga.

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On 4/6/2017 at 7:21 PM, ZachTheZip said:

 

At Illinois, he had four players arrested in one year (one was previously arrested the year before) in the 2015-2016 season.

 

http://writingillini.com/2016/03/17/illinois-basketball-kendrick-nunn-arrested/  Kendrick Nunn - Domestic Battery

http://writingillini.com/2015/08/22/illinois-basketball-darius-paul-dismissed-from-illini/  Darius Paul - Under-aged drinking and resisting arrest. Got kicked off the team. Previously arrested for vandalism, public intoxication, and resisting arrest while on a trip to France.

http://writingillini.com/2016/02/19/illinois-basketball-leron-black-arrested-now-what/  Leron Black - Aggravated Assault

https://writingillini.com/2016/03/12/illinois-basketball-jaylon-tate-arrested-enough-is-enough/  Jaylon Tate - Domestic battery

 

 

I'm still making my way through past comments. This one I feel needs to be addressed, because integrity does matter.

 

 

First of all, Groce runs a tight ship. He treats his players like men and expects them to act accordingly. He can't be with them around the clock even if he wanted and sometimes 18 to 22 year old student athletes act irresponsibly. When they do violate team rules they will sit. I have seen Groce sit a guy just long enough to break his consecutive string of starts and I have seen him bench a leading scorer for 3 games. This sort of thing is almost always kept in-house between Groce, that specific player and maybe the team, but he demands a culture of discipline and accountability. As a fan it can be frustrating because we want to win and there is our best player riding the bench for being habitually late for practice.

 

Now when events off the court become a legal matter, Groce will initially take the wait and see approach. So much is out of his hands at this point. However, he will work with the Athletic Director to gather the facts and determine how to best support that player through the legal process. Depending on the charges, they may try to work with the court to negotiate a resolution which is appropriate for the community, university and student athlete. It is usually after the court has rendered it's verdict that the Athletic Director and Groce will lay down their punishment. And there will be consequences for one's actions, it's just a matter of degree.

 

For example, Leron Black, a power forward at Illinois got into a dispute with a club bouncer he thought was being disrespectful to his girlfriend and pulled out a pocket knife. It appears he realized pretty fast just how stupid that decision was because he tried to ditch the knife. That was the first offense on Leron's record so he received probation. I believe he also had to make public apologies, Community Service, fines and he was suspended 6 games at the start of the following season. Leron is currently a redshirt Junior at Illinois and a starter. That whole experience seems to have scared him straight.

 

https://247sports.com/college/illinois/Article/Grace-Changes-People-The-Leron-Black-Story-74948839

 

 

Kendrick Nunn and Jaylon Tate were close friends and teammates at Simeon High School, Chicago. So they were tight and always together on campus. And it's not a surprise that they got into trouble together. However, long story short it was Kendrick Nunn who was guilty of domestic violence and Jaylon Tate was falsely accused. The whole thing dragged out all Summer long, but the average fan could have solved that mystery. Nunn is intense and was our enforcer on the court (See video link below of Nunn retaliating for something that happened earlier in the game to teammate Malcolm Hill). Nobody was going to punk our Illini teams with Nunn around and we loved his toughness. But turning that temper on your girlfriend is not exceptable and he was eventually released from the team. Jaylon Tate on the other hand is just a super nice guy and would never hurt anyone. The only thing Tate was ever guilty of was not being able to shoot the basketball. His charges were completely dismissed.

 

 

 

 

That leaves us Darius Paul. I wrote earlier about Coach Groce learning from poor judgement. Some in Illini Nation will say that the whole Darius Paul chapter was one huge mistake because he ended up getting arrested on two separate occasions and costing us 3 years of scholarships while never playing in a game. You may remember Darius Paul because he played power forward his Freshman year for Western Michigan. He is the younger brother of former Illinois guard Brandon Paul who is currently playing for the San Antonio Spurs. Darius was a late bloomer coming out of high school, but put up some solid numbers while at Western Michigan. He then transferred to Illinois and during his sit out year his substance abuse problem surfaced. He was given plenty of warning and most players would have been sent packing after that first arrest on campus. But this is where it gets complicated and everybody will have to answer this question for themselves. It comes down to this, how loyal are you? First of all, Coach Groce is very loyal. Second, the Paul family are awesome people. And third, Brandon Paul as a senior bought into Coach Groce's program that very first year and as a result excelled to whole new level (Meet Brandon Paul below). Darius got a second chance based on the relationship his brother and his family had formed with Groce and the basketball program. He agreed to being sent down to Texas for a year to get cleaned up, face his challenges with mentoring and play ball at the Junior College level. He was then granted the second opportunity and came back to Illinois the following year. Unfortunately, he then got himself arrested again on a pre-season trip to Europe which finished his time with Illinois. This one hurts because it was such a wasted opportunity for everyone, but especially for Darius. You can decide if you think Coach Groce was too loyal. I thought the Paul family was worth doubling-down on at the time. But in hind-sight this is just one more thing that piled up against Groce and his program.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I learned something through that whole explosion of off-court drama myself. There is a popular belief that winning cures everything. And there is definitely some truth to it because fans will gladly turn a blind-eye to infractions when their beloved is on a roll. But sometimes a lack of success on the court/field actually leads to problems off the court. The cases outlined here other than for Darius Paul's addiction issues occurred right after a basketball season had ended again without a trip to the dance. These are guys who are used to winning, for whom basketball has become their sense of identity and self-worth, playing for a University of Illinois that expects to make the NCAA Tournament annually. This was the third straight year they would be denied and to no fault of their own. Each year they left it all on the court. They were talented enough to make the post-season 4 out of the 5 years Groce was coach at Illinois, but a rash of injuries and tough breaks were too much to over-come. And it was something different every season. The pressure and frustration surrounding these guys was off the charts. There is never an excuse for beating a woman or pulling a knife, but sometimes context matters. Something that Coach Groce who was dealing with the pressure himself was trying to get across to these young men was that their lives are bigger than the game of basketball. Getting good grades and pursuing a career, doing community work, being a good friend, family member and teammate are all things that ultimately define us as people. It's my opinion these guys were caught up in the moment and it got really, really ugly.

 

I know this post was long-winded, but I needed to write it even if nobody spends the time to read it. Unfortunately, off the court issues are going to happen. It's ultimately how the players, coaches and staff handle those issues that really matters.

 

Thanks much.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Illini Zip
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  • 3 years later...

Thought I'd resurrect this thread to get everyone's thoughts on the next couple of years with the current staff.  In theory, we should be entering extension territory this coming Summer.  From what I can find, Coach Groce's contract expires after the next two full seasons (Summer 2023).  Obviously, performance to this point warrants an extension, but just a couple questions:

  1.  The University's finances are in shambles, exacerbated by the loss of sports and student enrollment money during the pandemic.  Can/will UA offer an extension with similar compensation to the back end of the current contract?
  2.  If it is offered, does he accept knowing future budget cuts are likely?
  3. Is there precedent of a D1 coach choosing to not to sign an extension?  I haven't found any outside of retirements.

This is all understanding that many many things can change in college athletics over the course of two years, but I thought this to be a good time to have this conversation as we're two fluke games away from being undefeated in MAC play when we lost 4/5 of our starters.  I don't see a precipitous performance drop happening in the next couple years.

 

My best guess is that a heavily incentive-laden extension that slightly cuts base pay (~10%) will be offered in good faith.  I hope that's enough to keep this staff in tact.

 

Or maybe we win a few NCAA games this season...and then all bets are off :)

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It's absolutely imperative we re-sign JG!! Other schools are also affected by budget cuts, and in today's society, job security should be paramount (he should have that security & comfort here). It seems like he's happy here, his players are happy here, and the fans are happy with the program's current state, so all signs point toward a long-term deal, right? 

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It is obvious we need to do everything we can to keep coach Groce. Williams will do whatever president Miller lets him. I can't see Williams bucking Miller for the sake of the future of the program. Williams is in survivor mode. Groce may want to stay if a bright future can be painted for him such as facility improvement, scheduling, recruiting budget, assistants' pay, maybe conference realignment (I admit that's a stretch). But I have no doubt that he will leave one day to coach in a high profile program. I think he needs the challenge and wants to prove it to himself.

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I’m sure I could be wrong but I’m not so convinced Groce would take a high profile job again. He’s done it and it didn’t work out. Both times in the MAC he’s had great success. He honestly still has a lot to prove at Akron. How about our first tourney win? Money isn’t an issue at this point in his career nor would it be if he were to stay at Akron. Probably wishful thinking though.

Edited by LZIp
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The way I see it Groce has 3 options, two of which depend on success level...

 

1) Akron makes a tourney run and he gets another Big Time gig. 

 

2) Akron makes the tourney, and he leaves for better pay with a lesser big time program.

 

3) He stays at Akron and gets a banner of his own as one of Akron's best coaches ever. 

 

His brand of basketball is not only productive, but it is an absolute blast to watch. We hung 80+ on EMU. How many years of 55-49 did we have to suffer through to get a style of basketball that puts up 80+ on the Zone of Trees, AND kills them on the boards? He has beaten PCCC, owned OU, beaten Toledo, BUGS, etc. It's hard not to like the group of guys he has brought in to wear the Akron Blue & Gold. I still get choked up watching the One Shining Moment video from last year. 

 

If Groce has any interest in staying, the University needs to find a way to get it done. Period. 

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I think Groce has been a better coach at Akron than Dambrot. Would Groce be able to pull off those streaks that KD did? I don't think so, but I also don't care. They play to win it all right now, and I'm sure over a 13 year sample that kind of basketball will give you some duds, and that's okay. I think it's the kind of ball that wins you the biggest games. Look at Buffalo prior to their 2018 run. Were they the 1 seed every year? No. But they were tough, and you never wanted to play them. They're still like that. And I think Groce has built Akron into a program like that. If only that team last year had a chance, that could've been legendary. 

 

If this group had a full offseason, it's pretty easy to say they would be just as incredible. Bandaogo would be a factor, guys like Wynn, Clarke, and Marshall would be able to contribute more, etc. But considering the slow start, damn you have to be impressed with what Groce has done once again. No excuses with this group, I love that so much.

 

This really has been the perfect scenario for the transition of the program, Groce is using the foundation of success KD built to make it even better and great in his own way. I think that when the day comes for Groce to move on, that makes the position even more attractive to quality candidates. Good coaches win here. That's huge.

 

 

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It’s earlier in this thread (I’m certain it must be this thread), but do you guys remember the heat Groce took from some former posters on this site when he was hired and especially as he struggled through his first season? A couple former posters seemed to have downright disdain for Groce. Seems like ancient history now.

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2 hours ago, Blue & Gold said:

It’s earlier in this thread (I’m certain it must be this thread), but do you guys remember the heat Groce took from some former posters on this site when he was hired and especially as he struggled through his first season? A couple former posters seemed to have downright disdain for Groce. Seems like ancient history now.

 

I certainly remember. The ones that are still around have admitted it was a good hire given what he accomplished last season. The others must have moved over to the Duquesne message board as I haven't seen them around lately. Perhaps they're just lurking waiting for their chance to say I told you so. If that's the case they will have a long wait as we're positioned to win long-term.

Edited by kreed5120
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1 hour ago, Blue & Gold said:

It’s earlier in this thread (I’m certain it must be this thread), but do you guys remember the heat Groce took from some former posters on this site when he was hired and especially as he struggled through his first season? A couple former posters seemed to have downright disdain for Groce. Seems like ancient history now.

 

They've gone awfully silent amid the success. That's too bad, unfortunately they were never Akron fans after all.

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