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John Groce Officially Hired


Dr Z

John Groce as the head coach at Akron  

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  1. 1. What do you think of John Groce?


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I guess I'm much more concerned about the program than anyone else is.  Let's look at the numbers.

 

2017-2018

  • 14-18 (6-12) Transition year.  Best performance by this coaching staff, outside of 2019-20, considering the pieces available.
  • 1-1 vs Kent
  • Tied for last in MAC
  • 1st round loss to EMU in MAC Tournament

2018-2019

  • 17-16 (8-10)
  • 1-1 vs Kent
  • Tied for 7th in MAC
  • Quarterfinal loss to UB in MAC Tournament

2019-2020

  • 24-7 (14-4).  Groce's best team.
  • 1-1 vs Kent
  • MAC Regular Season Champion
  • MAC Tournament and NCAA tournament cancelled

2020-2021

  • 15-8 (12-6)
  • 2-0 vs Kent
  • Tied for 3rd in MAC
  • Semifinal loss to UB

2021-2022

  • 16-9 (9-6).  Inflated record with no Q1 or Q2 NET wins, losses to last place WMU (nearly twice) and at home to 9th place NIU
  • 0-2 vs Kent
  • Currently 5th place with 5 games to go.
  • 5 games left (3 on the road) and a 3 game lead over 9th place.  Will we make Cleveland?

 

We have to be honest, this team is not good.  The high water mark was the near win at O$U, and we've regressed since that point.  We'll be entering Groce's 6th year without a go-to scorer.  Enrique may get there as he continues to improve with finding the open man when he's doubled.  After being able to plan on being in Cleveland on Saturday every March for over a decade, we've yet to sniff a MAC final.  Not good.

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I think Groce's in game coaching has been fine but this team has just not come together.  It happens to the best of programs.  Other than Freeman, there's not a superior individual talent on this team.  It is made up of a bunch of 6's and 7's on a 10 point MAC talent scale and no one has emerged as a leader.  Ultimately, that lack of talent falls at the feet of Groce and his staff in recruiting.  With the transient nature of today's athletes and the transfer portal a quick fix is possible but this season appears to be lost.

 

I will continue to trust Groce as I believe him to be a good man and a good coach and recognize we've been spoiled a little in the past couple of decades but this year has been a huge disappointment.

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28 minutes ago, RowdyZip said:

I guess I'm much more concerned about the program than anyone else is.  Let's look at the numbers.

 

2017-2018

  • 14-18 (6-12) Transition year.  Best performance by this coaching staff, outside of 2019-20, considering the pieces available.
  • 1-1 vs Kent
  • Tied for last in MAC
  • 1st round loss to EMU in MAC Tournament

2018-2019

  • 17-16 (8-10)
  • 1-1 vs Kent
  • Tied for 7th in MAC
  • Quarterfinal loss to UB in MAC Tournament

2019-2020

  • 24-7 (14-4).  Groce's best team.
  • 1-1 vs Kent
  • MAC Regular Season Champion
  • MAC Tournament and NCAA tournament cancelled

2020-2021

  • 15-8 (12-6)
  • 2-0 vs Kent
  • Tied for 3rd in MAC
  • Semifinal loss to UB

2021-2022

  • 16-9 (9-6).  Inflated record with no Q1 or Q2 NET wins, losses to last place WMU (nearly twice) and at home to 9th place NIU
  • 0-2 vs Kent
  • Currently 5th place with 5 games to go.
  • 5 games left (3 on the road) and a 3 game lead over 9th place.  Will we make Cleveland?

 

We have to be honest, this team is not good.  The high water mark was the near win at O$U, and we've regressed since that point.  We'll be entering Groce's 6th year without a go-to scorer.  Enrique may get there as he continues to improve with finding the open man when he's doubled.  After being able to plan on being in Cleveland on Saturday every March for over a decade, we've yet to sniff a MAC final.  Not good.

His first year they best WMU in K-Zoo to reach Cleveland.  I'm very concerned.  Groce is highly paid.  Middle of MAC isn't good enough.   Other teams managed thru COVID: OU, Toledo, Kent.   The Golden years of Zips basketball are in the rear view mirror.  Major recruiting fails led to this. 

Edited by NWAkron
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Using a "decade straight of MAC finals" as an evaluating tool is wildly unfair, especially with college basketball being completely unrecognizable to what it was when KD was doing that. Is the program where it once was? Absolutely not. But what other programs in the MAC have been able to hover around the top half of the league for so long like this, even with a seismic coaching change? Yes, the transition year was bad. But goodness gracious, if COVID doesn't blow up arguably the best Akron team ever, what does the conversation look like? 

 

Once Dambrot left, the slate was completely blank. If they would've hired a Rick McFadden or Chuck Thomas, they would've been a lot better that first year, but it would've trailed off quite a bit once the core that would've stuck around made their exit. What will Buffalo be when Williams, Segu, and Mballa are gone? Yikes. 

 

Akron is nearly as talented as every team in the league this year, they just do not have a Ryan Rollins/RayJ Dennis, Carry, Sears, Norman, Keshawn Williams to hand the ball to and make things happen. X was shaping up to be that, but has shown that he isn't. That is the most important roster spot for a MAC basketball team. And it's a miss by this staff to not have that right now.

 

Indeed, this season has been incredibly disappointing. The roster is also attractive to any transfers that may want to join it, and as others have said, there are players waiting in the wings that fill empty holes the roster currently has. The last four seasons have been: 8 seed that's rated as #108 in the country but lost a lot of close games, 1 seed that dominated the league, 3 seed that had some similar issues to this team but the best guard in the MAC, and currently a team that struggled its way to a 9-3 MAC record and is in a deep hole right now, fortunately a few weeks before the MAC tournament. What MAC programs have been collectively at or above the same level as Akron for 4 years now? Buffalo, Ohio (not even 4 years), Kent, and maybe Toledo.

 

9 MAC championship games with only 3 trips to the dance has damaged this fanbase in a big way. The same way the Kent's run in the early 2000s has nuked theirs. They now have one of the smaller crowds every year in Cleveland and people don't go to their games any more. And if you ask them why? "The program isn't what it used to be" blah blah blah blah. These two fan bases are massively spoiled into thinking that it should be MAC title or bust, while very few mid-majors can boast nearly two decades of sustained winning and success. 

 

Again, a very disappointing season for Akron basketball, which now stands at 16-9, 9-6 MAC. We know this team is better than that, we've seen it be much better than that. The players know. The coaches know. The fans know. You could just feel it in the JAR last night. But I'd much rather see these issues come out with a team that has no clear floor general and not a single senior than one riddled with experience and some of the best guards in the MAC crumbling. It's adversity, it's hard times. They happen at every program, even lousy mid-major ones that have been spoiled for a couple of decades.

 

End rant. Has anyone mentioned?? GO TO THE WOMEN'S GAME SATURDAY!!!

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5 minutes ago, NWAkron said:

His first year they best WMU in K-Zoo to reach Cleveland. 

Forgot about this.  Honestly, when I sat down to look at the number, I was surprised that next year is year 6 with this staff.  Time has flown by in the COVID vortex.  

 

Year one and 2019-2020 have been the best jobs so far by this staff.  Next year is a very important year.

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3 minutes ago, LoyalZIP said:

Again, a very disappointing season for Akron basketball, which now stands at 16-9, 9-6 MAC. We know this team is better than that, we've seen it be much better than that. The players know. The coaches know.

Though I admire your optimism, you and I are not watching the same basketball team.  

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Just now, RowdyZip said:

Though I admire your optimism, you and I are not watching the same basketball team.  

 

We are. Every game. Every minute. You are disappointed, I am disappointed. I acknowledge we are not watching a great basketball team, you acknowledge we are not watching a great basketball team. The body of work over 15 MAC games has shown every kind of performance possible. Dominant win over Buffalo, close losses to the top couple teams in the league, decisive wins over a couple of stinkers, a couple of devastating losses to horrible teams. It would be one thing if this team had a .500 record after losing three in a row, but they are still above water by three games despite the pile of crap that has run down the floor for a few games. 

 

And it's not optimism. Optimism would be saying this team's gonna be okay and get it together and win a couple of games in Cleveland etc. etc. I would like to think that, but all year I have not once been sold on them as MAC champions, and I am less now than I ever have been. A season isn't defined by winning and losing streaks. This team is no more the 6-game winning streak in November-Jan. as it is the 3-game slide it is right now. It's somewhere in the middle--mediocre. And that's exactly what this team currently is.

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1 hour ago, LoyalZIP said:

Akron is nearly as talented as every team in the league this year, they just do not have a Ryan Rollins/RayJ Dennis, Carry, Sears, Norman, Keshawn Williams to hand the ball to and make things happen. X was shaping up to be that, but has shown that he isn't. That is the most important roster spot for a MAC basketball team. And it's a miss by this staff to not have that right now.

 

If the staff was expecting to get Sincere Carry and he bolted for KSUcks last minute, that might explain lacking that one guard on this team. Still a miss to not have backup plans, but it sounds like Akron got hosed by a 💩 in the first place.

 

There hasn't been a single "normal" off-season for recruiting since before COVID, and I think this staff has struggled with that. Heck, even the one-time-no-sit-out transfer rule came into play well after the 2021 college basketball season. 

 

I expect the holes to be filled next year, but we still have guys like Freeman, Dawson, Aziz, and Kalle to build around. Those are key pieces, as guards are less of a hot commodity than dominant bigs (especially 7 footers). Get some perimeter scoring, and the sky is the limit with our front court. 

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1 hour ago, clarkwgriswold said:

At this juncture, they are what their record says they are- a middle of the pack MAC team.  The MAC preseason poll ranked them as the 5th team in the MAC and so far that's right where they are.

Important to not lose sight of this fact, and this was certainly more what I was insinuating from my previous post.  Some of the body language I saw last night combined with the fact that we haven't actually beat a single team of significance, makes me worry about the remaining 5 games and finishing (much) worse than 5th.

 

And thanks for your reply @LoyalZIP.  We're not far off in our assessments, but if this team is "better" than what we've seen so far, I'm not sure when they're going to prove it.  A handful of close losses and a 12-point win at home over Buffalo without one of their best players (Mballa) isn't much to hang our proverbial hats on.

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16 minutes ago, clarkwgriswold said:

I appreciate the adult conversation on here. In today's day and age on the internet it is refreshing to see an adult conversation and disagreements rather than the rants and juvenile name calling you see in other forums. 

 

While largely but not totally innocent of those things, this is why I say ZN.o is the best. Other MAC boards are either dead or that CSN garbage that looks terrible. ZN looks great, is very easy to use, and has very thoughtful and insightful contribution and it isn't flooded with junk. CK and Dr. Z are the real MVPs.

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Calling the players losers and ad hominem attacks on the university don't help the posters on here to understand what is going on.  Following up on Clark's point, it's hard to keep the perspective that moods and emotions can flip 180 if a ball bounces differently.  And the fate of careers can also hinge on a bad call or a missed FT.  We hear often that had Brian Walsh made his shot...would Groce have gone to Illinois.  Had the Zips ended the game against Kent better would we be in this conversation today.  

 

If you are Bates at WMU or Melissa Jackson (who i hopefully underestimated) you can get away with some excuses because you aren't being paid a lot and expectations are low.   No excuses apply for Groce.  He's paid incredibly well to make things work.  From recruiting to calling the final play of a half, it all falls on him.   At this point I don't walk into the JAR feeling good or expecting much.  It's not quite as bad as walking into Infocision on a Tuesday night but it's getting there.  And that feeling comes from knowing exactly how things are going to play out:  a dull start, maybe some panic and excitement, and then either a lucky break or a fail.

 

Someone posted Groce's results from each year.  He should have four goals each season:

 

1.  Beat Kent at the JAR

2. Beat Kent twice

3. win regular season championship

4. win the MAC tournament.

 

In his 6th year (or is it his 5th), Groce is going to whiff on all of those

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All the above posts are great.  I am more optimistic than most on this board.  We just lost 3 close games and one of  the games was to Kent which is the hottest team in the MAC.  Basically, we have sucked in the clutch.  Last night X caught a pass and his foot was out of bounds with a minute left in the game.  We still had a chance to tie it when Ali tribbles the ball into his own foot.  At Western, we had a 6 point lead and blew it in the final two minutes with some horrific passes and Freeman missed 2 crucial foul shots.  At Kent, we had 3 empty possessions down the stretch and still could have won it if X had passed the ball to Ali who was open for a three.  This team is struggling the last 2 minutes of the game where earlier we executed at the end of the game.

 

I believe our defense is good enough to win but our offense has failed to on too many occasions.  Also, it is difficult to watch.  As somebody pointed out earlier, we do not push the ball up the court.  If you watch Freeman rebound, he is not looking for a quick outlet but secures the ball and we walk the ball up the court.  This offense has a lot of movement but in most cases the ball still ends up on the perimeter with 15 seconds on the shot clock.  We need a LCJ type guard that can bread down defenses.  We see a lot of one on one action with Ali and Freeman.  However, it is rare that we see a pass to a cutter or a back door cut.  Instead it is usually a kick out to the perimeter.  

 

X, Trimble and Dawson went 2 of 15 from 3 point distance.  Shooting the 3 has been a problem most of the season and Trimble has been a problem.  Bring him off the bench did not improve his shooting.  Obviously, we need much better play from X.  Clark has played better but he has not been able to penetrate the defense like last year and I hate the way he dribbles 40 feet from the basket with no purpose.  I would like to see Tribble shoot more.  I watch him practice between the halve and he makes everything.  Obviously, he can't do much worse that what we already have.  

 

I believe this team can still have a winning season and win in Cleveland if Groce has not lost the team.  I watch him get upset on the floor and if the players no longer have faith in him and do not want to play for him anymore then I do expect this downfall to continue and Akron will watch the tournament.  

 

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10 minutes ago, dirtyolcrowe said:

9 MAC championship games with only 3 trips to the dance has damaged this fanbase in a big way. 
 

?????????? You mean the 3 blowout losses to the dance???

It's all about the matchup.  The Notre Dame and Gonzaga games weren't blowouts.  Both were close well into the second half.  Notre dame needed 20 more FT attempts than the Zips to win by a dozen points.  And we all know what happened before with VCU.

 

I guess some would rather miss Cleveland or lose by 40 to Buffalo than win and have a shot in The Dance.  To each their own.

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28 minutes ago, RowdyZip said:

It's all about the matchup.  The Notre Dame and Gonzaga games weren't blowouts.  Both were close well into the second half.  Notre dame needed 20 more FT attempts than the Zips to win by a dozen points.  And we all know what happened before with VCU.

 

I guess some would rather miss Cleveland or lose by 40 to Buffalo than win and have a shot in The Dance.  To each their own.

Yeah.  Praise mediocrity!!!!    That’s why I ignore you and don’t like you.  
Well.  To each their own. 
 

PS-the former happens a lot more than the latter!!!

 

keep reaching for the stars princess!!

 

 

 

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