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Game 23—@Ohio University


clarkwgriswold

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5 hours ago, jupitertoo said:

Got a kick out of GT's game story last night, in which he identified the opponent as "Ohio Bobcats University" in the lede.  Proofreading ain't his thang.

 

 

I seriously doubt GT was even there or wrote the article since it doesn't have his byline. The ABJ jumped the proofreading shark a long time ago when the feature front page article on the Sunday paper featured a headline about a "SNEAK PEAK OF NEW DIGS AT HOSPITAL"

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1 hour ago, Captain Kangaroo said:

How many games would Dambrot have won last season if he'd lost Kwan, Noah, Antino, Big Dog, Poke and Dunn-Martin? That's about what Groce is up against right now.

 

I think the proof should be in the history and results. 

 

For 12 years, everyone here anguished over whether we could repeat success the following year by losing players A, B, and C, etc., and every year we found a way to get right back to where we were during the course of the season.  

 

Maybe 2015 would be your best example.  Chauncey, Walsh, and Zeke had all graduated, and Harney, Treadwell and Abreu had all "exited" the team over a period of roughly a little more than a year.  Our PG was a freshman, and he tore his ACL.  Another freshman stepped in, and that guy along with a hobbled Forsythe (who could only muster a few minutes per game) took us all the way to the MAC Semifinal.  

 

That team was so decimated by the end of the season that we decided not to take a postseason bid, if you recall.  

 

Like him or not, Keith knew how to put the pieces together to win MAC basketball games, in all kinds of different circumstances.  And he proved that, over, and over and over again.  

  

Edited by skip-zip
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11 minutes ago, jupitertoo said:

He did write the article - that is confirmed.  But he did it by following the game online. Guild (union) rules are that if you cover a story "virtually," you don't get a byline.

Interesting, thanks for the info. Maybe one of us can stay home and watch online and write the story next time. ;)

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1 hour ago, Captain Kangaroo said:

With 7 scholarship players? No chance.

 

 

 

Groce started the year with 9, Dambrot with 10 at Duquesne.  Until mid-December, he was down to 8 due to injuries.  

 

Certainly we don't know, but I do think KD is a better coach and would have more wins with this group.

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3 minutes ago, UAZip0510 said:

 

Groce started the year with 9, Dambrot with 10 at Duquesne.  Until mid-December, he was down to 8 due to injuries.  

 

Certainly we don't know, but I do think KD is a better coach and would have more wins with this group.

2 hour drive to Pittsburgh.  I was thinking the same thing both times we lost to OU and Groce in the MAC finals.   Both good coaches.  One left.  One is here.

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What Dambrot inherited vs. what he left for Groce is night and day. Last I checked, Dambrot inherited an A10 All Rookie Team member, and didn't reciprocate for Groce. 

 

With the injuries that have occurred, this season cannot be measured by wins/losses. The losing sucks, I want to win just as badly as anybody here, but that's not how I'm measuring the successes of this season now.

 

I'm looking at the progress of our freshman, and I am very pleased.

 

- While KLac hasn't been as big of a presence in recent games, there was a stretch there where he was a real force. He has developed some excellent post moves, has knocked down some jumpers, and his effort to get on the floor has been tremendous.

 

- Virshon Cotton is looking like he will be solid for years to come at the point position. 

 

- Parrish, despite some frustrating moments of "what the hell were you thinking", is largely everything you can ask for in a freshman forward. He's aggressive, drives to the basket, rebounds, jumps the passing lanes. I'm really excited to see him continue to develop.

 

- Patton is even getting more confident. He rebounds well and is starting to find more and more of his game on the offensive side of the ball. 

 

Most importantly, I like the main emphasis on building the culture to Groce's standards over getting a bunch of cheap and meaningless wins in the grand scheme of things. 

Edited by Let'sGoZips94
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1 hour ago, Illini Zip said:

 

Great summary 1981 Grad and you are correct, they are playing worse. They are not playing team defense and missing their assignments. They didn't follow Clarkswgriswold's scouting report which was obviously on point. On offense there is way too much hero ball and there is no ball movement or a general sense of purpose on the court. Even without a full roster, this team is underachieving.

 

Groce's teams always improved at Illinois, even though some years they collapsed before the post-season due to exhaustion trying to over-come injuries/set backs. This team due to a lack of leadership, competitiveness, pride and coachability has hit a wall early on and now it's spiraling out of control. My guess is there is a cancer in the locker room that will not exist next year. It might be one of our best players. It might be 4 of of our best players. Nobody is safe going into next year and they all had better be prepared to compete against walk-ons for the rest of the season because it's obvious to me that Groce is prioritizing culture over wins at this point.

 

 

 

On an optimistic note; when I research LePear Toles and Loren Jackson I am hopeful these two guys will bring a winning attitude with them.

 

Grocism of the Day - We want Tiggers at Akron, not Eeyores.

 

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23 minutes ago, NWAkron said:

2 hour drive to Pittsburgh.  I was thinking the same thing both times we lost to OU and Groce in the MAC finals.   Both good coaches.  One left.  One is here.

 

I'd think we could elaborate further than two games (both of which went to OT) when it comes to discussing the merits of each coach, but sure.  

 

Again, I'm not saying Groce isn't a good coach or that Dambrot is the greatest of all-time.  But as skip-zip pointed out, Dambrot always did more with less.  There were so many times I expected a huge dropoff, only to find myself at The Q on Saturday night cheering for the Zips in another title game.  

 

I'm confident Groce will have a much better year here next season, and strongly believe he'll get us a NCAA Tournament win before moving on.  I base this on my opinion that he is an elite recruiter, which I do not think KD is.  But if I'm giving both coaches the same roster of players to work with in this hypothetical situation, yeah, KD's going to squeeze more wins out of the group every single time.  

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1 hour ago, NWAkron said:

2 hour drive to Pittsburgh.  I was thinking the same thing both times we lost to OU and Groce in the MAC finals.   

 

Unfortunately there weren't 2 other meetings that should have happened in Cleveland, because the other two years that Groce was at OU, Akron won the MAC Tournament Title, and OU was long gone by the Quarterfinals.  

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3 hours ago, NWAkron said:

Wow.  I was just going to write about how much I enjoy your insight.  I was referring to 0510s post BTW.

 

On a positive note, our chance of winning a 1500 jewelry item is going up if attendance wanes.  The t shirt cannon to the chest was definitely symbolic.

 

Old Clarky is a little slow on the uptake today!

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I have an interesting perspective on Groce - an honest one.  But remember that I'm an OU grad.

 

I thought he was vastly overrated in Athens...except for his recruiting.  He was an exceptional recruiter and had a killer class set to come in the year after he left OU.

 

I also thought he was a horrible X's and O's coach.  Remember, he never finished higher than third in the MAC and honestly never made a serious run at Akron for regular season honors.  Ho lost a ton of games that he should't have.

 

So why did his star rise so fast?  He got really lucky at the right time of the year.  If DJ Cooper doesn't hit a double-clutch, desperation three-pointer thrown from his hip with a man all over him as the shot clock expired late in the championship game at Gund Arena, OU maybe qualifies for the NIT that year.  Instead, they get hot against an overconfident (but by no means great) Michigan team and a decent South Fla. to advance in the NCAA's.

 

My biggest beef with Groce was that he lets his emotions control him during the game and loses focus on the fundamental strategic moves that make coaches like Dambrot so damn good.

 

The question for the Zips is whether Groce can continue to strike gold on the recruiting trail now that his career has been set back a bit.  It will be good for the league if Akron (and Ohio) can get back to the top of the standings, so I guess I hope for his success.

 

 

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13 minutes ago, jupitertoo said:

I have an interesting perspective on Groce - an honest one.  But remember that I'm an OU grad.

 

I thought he was vastly overrated in Athens...except for his recruiting.  He was an exceptional recruiter and had a killer class set to come in the year after he left OU.

 

I also thought he was a horrible X's and O's coach.  Remember, he never finished higher than third in the MAC and honestly never made a serious run at Akron for regular season honors.  Ho lost a ton of games that he should't have.

 

So why did his star rise so fast?  He got really lucky at the right time of the year.  If DJ Cooper doesn't hit a double-clutch, desperation three-pointer thrown from his hip with a man all over him as the shot clock expired late in the championship game at Gund Arena, OU maybe qualifies for the NIT that year.  Instead, they get hot against an overconfident (but by no means great) Michigan team and a decent South Fla. to advance in the NCAA's.

 

My biggest beef with Groce was that he lets his emotions control him during the game and loses focus on the fundamental strategic moves that make coaches like Dambrot so damn good.

 

The question for the Zips is whether Groce can continue to strike gold on the recruiting trail now that his career has been set back a bit.  It will be good for the league if Akron (and Ohio) can get back to the top of the standings, so I guess I hope for his success.

 

 

 

To have the opportunity to bitch about being lucky while making a Sweet Sixteen run, now that's something I want. 

Edited by Let'sGoZips94
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35 minutes ago, jupitertoo said:

 

 

The question for the Zips is whether Groce can continue to strike gold on the recruiting trail now that his career has been set back a bit.  It will be good for the league if Akron (and Ohio) can get back to the top of the standings, so I guess I hope for his success.

 

 

You guess?   So you aren't quite sure if you want him and the Zips to succeed?  Your last line betrayed your agenda.

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2 minutes ago, NWAkron said:

You guess?   So you aren't quite sure if you want him and the Zips to succeed?  Your last line betrayed your agenda.

IIRC, Jupiter is an OU fan/alum who works and/or lives in Akron. I doubt they really care about Akron, but rather logs on at times when its relevant to discuss both.

Edited by LZIp
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7 hours ago, jupitertoo said:

The question for the Zips is whether Groce can continue to strike gold on the recruiting trail now that his career has been set back a bit. 

 

If this truly is his strength, then I also wonder how that will be affected after he took such a step backwards.  Now he has a bad year on top of that.  I guess the challenge for him is to project that idea to HS players that he can do some magical things again, even though he continues to distance himself further and further from the time where he accomplished those kinds of things.  

 

It makes me think of Stan Heath.  I pray we're not watching someone who's going to follow that path.  

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12 minutes ago, skip-zip said:

 

If this truly is his strength, then I also wonder how that will be affected after he took such a step backwards.  Now he has a bad year on top of that.  I guess the challenge for him is to project that idea to HS players that he can do some magical things again, even though he continues to distance himself further and further from the time where he accomplished those kinds of things.  

 

It makes me think of Stan Heath.  I pray we're not watching someone who's going to follow that path.  

You are the one who said that he never had true success at OU. If he could still recruit there, then he shouldn't have a problem now. 

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"Oh, and the definition of a shooter is someone who makes shots. "



Nope , The definition of a MAKER is someone who MAKES shots. I heard a coach tell a recruit who was proclaiming himself a shooter...."Son, World has a lot of shooters....just not as many makers. I need a maker"
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On 2/9/2018 at 8:21 AM, Captain Kangaroo said:

Yeah...it would suck to reach the Elite 8.

 

If did, because it was Kent.  

 

You perfectly illustrate how long some people will proclaim the greatness of the coach for something accomplished so long ago.  In this case, 16 years.   His elevation to a "big program" began the slide to where he is today.  That was what I was referencing.  

 

 

 

 

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