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clarkwgriswold

Game 25—Ball State

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55 minutes ago, Hilltopper said:

Trying to compare the way Smith guarded Moses to the way Kostelac did it is apples to oranges. Smith fronted the big guy and knew that he had backside help if they threw it over the top. When Mark was in the game they expected him to play straight man to man. Moses being a much more experienced player did a great job of selling any contact between them and the refs bought it. The refs were much more willing to give Smith the benefit of the doubt due to the size difference. The main reason Smith can be effective in the post is due to his quickness. Mark at 6'11" is never going to be that quick.

 

I agree with your apples to oranges assessment. And sometimes the pay off of speed vs. size works in your favor. I personally prefer watching small ball when you can get away with it on defense which is why I enjoy Groce's system. The problem I remember from the second half was Moses catching the ball at will away from the rim and then using his size to easily back down Smith into the paint. Moses would not be able to move K-lac out of the way like that. I think the guy most likely to optimize that size vs. speed dynamic and start for Akron at center is Sayles, but he needs to develop his outside shot and learn to set picks as well.

 

 

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53 minutes ago, Illini Zip said:

 

I agree with your apples to oranges assessment. And sometimes the pay off of speed vs. size works in your favor. I personally prefer watching small ball when you can get away with it on defense which is why I enjoy Groce's system. The problem I remember from the second half was Moses catching the ball at will away from the rim and then using his size to easily back down Smith into the paint. Moses would not be able to move K-lac out of the way like that. I think the guy most likely to optimize that size vs. speed dynamic and start for Akron at center is Sayles, but he needs to develop his outside shot and learn to set picks as well.

 

 

 

He didn't have to as K-lac inexplicably hacked him 15 feet from the basket (on the play he fouled out).   :thumb:

Edited by clarkwgriswold

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15 minutes ago, clarkwgriswold said:

 

He didn't have to as K-lac inxeplicably hacked him 15 feet from the basket (on the play he fouled out).   :thumb:

 

See, I need more "likes". Does anybody have extra "likes" they want to sell?  :D

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2 hours ago, Illini Zip said:

K-lac and Loren Jackson find themselves on the opposite ends of the roster spectrum, but both are specialists.

 

K-lac as they say, you can't coach size. 

 

So, you've looked at his game, and his "specialty" is simply his size?  Not too encouraging. 

 

You'd think by now that you might be able to find an area where he could help us.  I can't find it.  I see 28 rebounds in 242 minutes.  Incredibly, I see 15 more fouls than points (I didn't know that was possible).  I see 20 turnovers vs. 4 assists.   So, I guess "running the offense through him" hasn't emerged as a viable option either.  

 

Maybe roughing-up an opponent's star big man for 5 minutes a game is an option?

 

 

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We are the victims of exactly what we used to victimize other teams during the KD years.

We are too damn short.

We had centers that were 7' and 6'10"

We had wings that were 6'7 and 6'8

Now we have a bunch of guys who are D1 guard size.

We can not win in the Mac with that.

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1 hour ago, Illini Zip said:

 

See, I need more "likes". Does anybody have extra "likes" they want to sell?  :D

 

If these posts were numbered, I'd hit a couple for you..

 

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2 hours ago, skip-zip said:

 

So, you've looked at his game, and his "specialty" is simply his size?  Not too encouraging. 

 

You'd think by now that you might be able to find an area where he could help us.  I can't find it.  I see 28 rebounds in 242 minutes.  Incredibly, I see 15 more fouls than points (I didn't know that was possible).  I see 20 turnovers vs. 4 assists.   So, I guess "running the offense through him" hasn't emerged as a viable option either.  

 

Maybe roughing-up an opponent's star big man for 5 minutes a game is an option?

 

 

 

Skip, is there a question in here for me? All I see is snark.

 

 

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3 hours ago, skip-zip said:

 

So, you've looked at his game, and his "specialty" is simply his size?  Not too encouraging. 

 

You'd think by now that you might be able to find an area where he could help us.  I can't find it.  I see 28 rebounds in 242 minutes.  Incredibly, I see 15 more fouls than points (I didn't know that was possible).  I see 20 turnovers vs. 4 assists.   So, I guess "running the offense through him" hasn't emerged as a viable option either.  

 

Maybe roughing-up an opponent's star big man for 5 minutes a game is an option?

 

 

Color me shocked that Skip can't see anything good about a part of this team

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22 minutes ago, zippy5 said:

Color me shocked that Skip can't see anything good about a part of this team

 

Because there isn't much "good" to point out right now.   Sorry, we're sitting near the bottom of the league, and I'm not on the "but there was some encouragement in that loss" bandwagon, like a few of the rest of you.   

 

But I have stated on multiple occasions who I believe has the greatest chances of making an impact on this program in the future.  

 

1 hour ago, Illini Zip said:

Skip, is there a question in here for me? 

 

Yes, I was essentially asking you what is this future "specialist" role you see in Mark K.  ?

Edited by skip-zip

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3 hours ago, skip-zip said:

 

So, you've looked at his game, and his "specialty" is simply his size?  Not too encouraging. 

 

You'd think by now that you might be able to find an area where he could help us.  I can't find it.  I see 28 rebounds in 242 minutes.  Incredibly, I see 15 more fouls than points (I didn't know that was possible).  I see 20 turnovers vs. 4 assists.   So, I guess "running the offense through him" hasn't emerged as a viable option either.  

 

Maybe roughing-up an opponent's star big man for 5 minutes a game is an option?

 

 

He does remind me a player named Bardo from a decade or more ago.  A guy who had size, likeable kid, but was not the quickest.  Again, Klac is a frosh so he may improve but I agree with you that he is not taking advantage of the minutes that are given to him.  

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37 minutes ago, skip-zip said:

Yes, I was essentially asking you what is this future "specialist" role you see in Mark K.  ?

 

Groce talks about recruiting "basketball players" which means he is looking for guys of a certain personality profile and athleticism with the potential of mastering all the skill sets. It's really more about a system and less about recruiting for a specific position, the exceptions I would argue are the roles Loren and K-lac play. The fact that K-lac is even on the team says to me that Groce believes he has the potential to develop and mature into a well-rounded player which also means being capable of running the court. I believe K-lac's role is special because he is more than just the biggest player or club in the coach's golf bag, his job is to be the last line of defense against the big boys in the paint. Even though the whole team will develop and use post-up skills, K-lac must master the traditional center position. Similarly for Loren Jackson, when all else fails he needs to be the reliable option for breaking down opposing defenses off the dribble. On one end of the roster you have reliable speed and quickness and on the other end you have reliable size and strength, but throughout the players are as versatile and interchangeable as possible.

 

You might not think of size and strength alone as a specialty, but I can tell you of one Big Ten team who would love to have a senior version of K-lac right about now. Illinois is the Lucas Smith of the conference. Anyway, K-lac needed a true redshirt year with a D-1 program to develop his body. No offense to IMG. K-lac shouldn't even be on the court right now so he should be thrilled with this opportunity. If only he would stop fouling. Actually, all of these freshmen are playing minutes they have not earned, but the process has to start somewhere. Maybe in the end K-lac is too slow and doesn't cut it, but he looks like a kid who cares a lot and is willing to put in the work. So I'm bullish on K-lac long-term. I wish you could attend practices, because you would likely see K-lac doing a whole lot more than he is allowed to do in games. Then again, you would likely see a lot of rookie mistakes as well. In time as K-lac proves himself in practice, Groce will expand his role in games.

 

I hope this helps, Skip. It's my best answer. I imagine you wish Coach Dambrot was still at Akron. Well, I wish Groce was still at Illinois. If you figure out how we can turn back time I am all ears. But until then, it looks like I'm the biggest Zips fan alive with absolutely no ties to the school. Go Zips!!

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14 hours ago, skip-zip said:

 

Because there isn't much "good" to point out right now.   Sorry, we're sitting near the bottom of the league, and I'm not on the "but there was some encouragement in that loss" bandwagon, like a few of the rest of you.   

 

But I have stated on multiple occasions who I believe has the greatest chances of making an impact on this program in the future.  

 

 

Yes, I was essentially asking you what is this future "specialist" role you see in Mark K.  ?

I have purposefully refrained from commenting for last 4-5 wks to listen to all the K.D. haters and Groce lovers, but I think Skip is spot on. I have seen nothing from K-lack to suggest he will be anything more than a 5 minute a game, bottom of the bench player. Many of you posters who preferred 1 meaningful win to 21 win seasons are now calling 1 win over CMU "meaningful" I know some of you are hoping for 1 home game in the tournament as "meaningful" my how perceptions have changed  let me be clear, I am not anti-Groce. He inherited an impossible situation and did the best he could. So he gets a pass. What I do find bewildering is the notion that K.D. accomplished so little and that 1 or 2 tournament wins trumps everything.   We shall see how a 12-13 win seasons helps or hurts recruiting

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I don't think this debate over this Havrilek kid has anything to do with whether someone likes Dambrot or Groce better.  

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