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2017/2018 End of Season Thoughts


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13 minutes ago, skip-zip said:

 

Serious Question:  Where do you think this "job offer" is coming from after a 6-12 season in the MAC, which followed that 5-year debacle at Illinois?

 

He's certainly working hard to resurrect his career.  But lets be real here.  You shouldn't be worried about higher opportunities presenting themselves anytime soon.    

 

You're both right IMO.  Groce isn't getting a job offer at a bigger school, but if he does, he'll jump.  That's the new norm for us.  For years we could feel reasonably safe about out coach leaving as watched others cycle through coaches each time they had success.  Now we are no different.  

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1 hour ago, skip-zip said:

 

Please don't point out the facts, and mess up someone's ridiculous misconception.  :lol:

 

 

 

We haven't made the NCAA tournament since 2013. The comment regarding finishing strong is very true, as the team this year was playing its best basketball at the end, despite the W/L record not exactly reflecting that. Clearly we haven't finished strong the previous 4 seasons because those rosters - more complete - should have won the MAC at least once. Quite frankly, the end-of-season basketball that was played the previous 4 seasons was uninspiring. The difference in the W/L record is strictly roster-based, and that will change next year I presume. 

Edited by Let'sGoZips94
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6 hours ago, Zip44 said:

To NWAkron:  everyone has a right to their opinion. Show some respect & quit displaying your bullying tendencies.

 

Wow, way to jump in on your first post.

 

By way of background, Skip and NW are like the old couple that lives next door that you regularly hear bickering.  In time, you realize that they do it out of habit and for sport and really mean no harm.

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1 minute ago, Let'sGoZips94 said:

 Clearly we haven't finished strong the previous 4 seasons.

 

:lol:

 

Since you want to ignore the obvious, and want to continue this narrative, let me add a couple more things to what UAZip0510 said earlier.

 

2015 - An unbelievable 3-wins-in-4-nights streak to get us to the MAC Semifinal, with a roster so decimated that we were unable to accept a postseason bid.

2016 - Advance all the way to the MAC Final

2017 - Advance all the way to the MAC Final

2018 - Eliminated in the MAC Quarterfinal.   Our earliest exit from the MAC tournament since 2005.

 

It's inexplicable to me how a few of you continue to insist that we all should all be applauding this last-place season, while simultaneously manufacturing numerous false and disparaging comments to characterize  the highly-successful previous seasons.  The facts are sitting right in your face, and you choose to ignore them.  Why?   Did Keith pee in your cereal or something?

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As I recall, there are 32 D1 basketball conferences.  That means 32 of 347 teams, less than one in ten, end their regular season or conference tournament on a high note with a conference championship.  Those numbers suggest that Zips fans have been spoiled and that the Zips haven't really underperformed.

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36 minutes ago, Let'sGoZips94 said:

 

We haven't made the NCAA tournament since 2013. The comment regarding finishing strong is very true, as the team this year was playing its best basketball at the end, despite the W/L record not exactly reflecting that. Clearly we haven't finished strong the previous 4 seasons because those rosters - more complete - should have won the MAC at least once. Quite frankly, the end-of-season basketball that was played the previous 4 seasons was uninspiring. The difference in the W/L record is strictly roster-based, and that will change next year I presume. 

 

I am OK with giving Groce a break based on the conditions of next year but I'm sorry, I can't accept this.  

 

It feels like the last few years weren't strong finishes because losing in the championship game really sucks and stings much more than losing a Thursday night game against Eastern Michigan to cap off a miserable season.  The Zips won 4 of their last 11 games.  That's not finishing strong.  If you're going to knock the previous teams based on losing the championship game, you can't overlook this one not being able to close out against Eastern Michigan.  Again, I want to be fair to Groce and this team, but I can't sit here and praise this team for finishing strong while simultaneously saying past teams, with better overall records, last 10 game records, and final result records, didn't finish strong.  

 

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1 hour ago, skip-zip said:

 

Serious Question:  Where do you think this "job offer" is coming from after a 6-12 season in the MAC, which followed that 5-year debacle at Illinois?

 

He's certainly working hard to resurrect his career.  But lets be real here.  You shouldn't be worried about higher opportunities presenting themselves anytime soon.    

Which further validates the point I been making all season. 
Such a great hire for us huh. 

Im not worried because I have no faith in him but again if he by chance has a winning season I predict he is gone at the first offer he gets just like our Great University President who has been with us less than 2 years and already has a foot out the door. 

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8 hours ago, dre22era said:

My End of Season thoughts 

Our AD can kick rocks and take our one foot out the door UCF rejected applicant UA president with him 

I hate the MAC and wish someday we will grow a pair and leave just like Hampton is leaving the MEAC. Gotta take risk and as of now we take none. 

I have no hope in Groce because I know the first job offer he gets HE IS GONE. 

You can't build off that long term so with that said my hope is all but dead in regards to the future of this program

 

You are so right. Let’s talk a bigger issue: A few years ago UA had a real chance at bigger conference. The UA board had a chance to hire Jim Tressel. They balked because he wanted 5 yr contract & they only offered 3. He wanted the job. He believed Akron belonged in bigger conf for our athletic survival & he would have taken us there. He would have brought instant credibility & reached out to the Community & raised the required funding & support. As evidence look at what he raised for Youngstown State a D2 school. Look at the meeting & school visits he has made to raise funding & enrollment. With Tressel as president, Dambrot stays & we get the funding & the JAR would have been renovated, eventually even a new arena, bigger conference, better talent & multiple NCAA at large bids. Sadly our past & current board & 2 Presidents did not & do not really believe strongly enough in the importance of athletics. The President & AD want to leave this ship. 

The big donors have seen all this & have pulled their funding. Why do you think the JAR’s major renovation has not yet started. We got a facelift paint job & a badly needed scoreboard. Don’t expect any major renovations this off season. No funding.

Can’t build a consistent winner when the successful coaches leave & we have to strike gold each time to continue that success.

Look at UA past: Webb, Huggins, Dambrot. 

After their departure- immediate drop off & insignificance.

The  leadership- board & President - have to change their ways & realize the importance that athletics bring to the success of the entire school. Sad to say, until then, we are stuck in mediocrity. 

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4 minutes ago, Zip44 said:

You are so right. Let’s talk a bigger issue: A few years ago UA had a real chance at bigger conference. The UA board had a chance to hire Jim Tressel. They balked because he wanted 5 yr contract & they only offered 3. He wanted the job. He believed Akron belonged in bigger conf for our athletic survival & he would have taken us there. He would have brought instant credibility & reached out to the Community & raised the required funding & support. As evidence look at what he raised for Youngstown State a D2 school. Look at the meeting & school visits he has made to raise funding & enrollment. With Tressel as president, Dambrot stays & we get the funding & the JAR would have been renovated, eventually even a new arena, bigger conference, better talent & multiple NCAA at large bids. Sadly our past & current board & 2 Presidents did not & do not really believe strongly enough in the importance of athletics. The President & AD want to leave this ship. 

The big donors have seen all this & have pulled their funding. Why do you think the JAR’s major renovation has not yet started. We got a facelift paint job & a badly needed scoreboard. Don’t expect any major renovations this off season. No funding.

Can’t build a consistent winner when the successful coaches leave & we have to strike gold each time to continue that success.

Look at UA past: Webb, Huggins, Dambrot. 

After their departure- immediate drop off & insignificance.

The  leadership- board & President - have to change their ways & realize the importance that athletics bring to the success of the entire school. Sad to say, until then, we are stuck in mediocrity. 

You hit it right on the nail 100% 

This is the harsh reality we are in and its a shame people write it off as just hate. 

The University as a whole is currently not on a solid foundation and as a result it affects everything. 

So many golden opportunities botched in the past 5 years. 

 

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Coaches leaving a mid-major for a bigger program is the rule, not the exception. If and when that happens, you can't hold it against the coach or UA.  The fact that KD was "hometown boy" coupled with controversy in his past prevented this from happening and spoiled us.

 

I too would like to see the Zips move beyond the MAC, but given the realities of being a public university in the state of Ohio and ever increasing budget restraints, I think we're stuck.

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I believe KD would still be in Akron if our AD and MAC commish at least made an effort to speak out and defend our resume and conference. 

Look at 2007 for example. We go 26-7 and 13-3 in conference with arguably our most talented team ever. Lose on a buzzer beater to Miami of Ohio and don't even get an invite to the NIT. 

The MAC should of rightfully been a multiple bid conference for years now. In 2010, Kent had an RPI of 57. Toledo was No. 36 in 2014, Akron No. 34 in 2016 but no one was selected.

The MAC hasn't received and At Large bid since Miami of Ohio in 1998.  So you are a coach who is leading your team to multiple 25+ winning seasons and no one from the AD to the President to the MAC commish is vouching for you. Your season is basically thrown away after losing in the MAC Championship, I would leave too. 

When Stan Heath left Kent after their historical Elite Eight run in 2002 he said he left because had Kent lost in the MAC Tournament they likely would not have even been selected as an at-large.

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6 minutes ago, zippy5 said:

RPI isn't used anymore and 25 wins is a menaingless number without context on who made up the 25 wins. The MAC hasn't deserved an at-large since 1998.

So you were fine with 19-15 Vanderbilt not only making the Tourney last season but as a 9 seed over any MAC team resume wise 

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1 hour ago, skip-zip said:

 

:lol:

 

Since you want to ignore the obvious, and want to continue this narrative, let me add a couple more things to what UAZip0510 said earlier.

 

2015 - An unbelievable 3-wins-in-4-nights streak to get us to the MAC Semifinal, with a roster so decimated that we were unable to accept a postseason bid.

2016 - Advance all the way to the MAC Final

2017 - Advance all the way to the MAC Final

2018 - Eliminated in the MAC Quarterfinal.   Our earliest exit from the MAC tournament since 2005.

 

It's inexplicable to me how a few of you continue to insist that we all should all be applauding this last-place season, while simultaneously manufacturing numerous false and disparaging comments to characterize  the highly-successful previous seasons.  The facts are sitting right in your face, and you choose to ignore them.  Why?   Did Keith pee in your cereal or something?

 

Don't forget 2014 - a semi-finals loss to WMU.

 

Here's my point of view. The '13-14 season was his 10th season at the helm of the program. To me, there should not be lulls when you're in your 10th season as the head coach of a program. We had 8 straight tournament finals appearances. What was missed in recruiting/coaching to not maintain that? I know that's a heck of a run, but when you have that kind of run, typically you take the next step with continued dominance. We didn't. We took 2 steps back. '13-14 & '14-15 ended with losses in the conference semis; I won't cut Dambrot much slack for the roster issues (I only remember Robotham?) because in your 11th season as HC, you should have better depth/talent to cover an injury or two. '15-16 ended with a disappointing loss to Buffalo in the MAC finals, and an even more disappointing loss to OSUcks in the NIT (inexcusable). '16-17 ended with a horrific loss to KSUcks in the MAC finals, and a blowout loss to UT Arlington (that Houston win does look better with them making the tourney this year). The basketball that ended those seasons, it wasn't fun to watch. We never finished strong. Those back-to-back finals appearances in '16 & '17, those were aided by the MAC being the MAC more than by us playing some of our best ball at the time. 

 

We struggled this year from early January to early/mid February, but ended up playing some excellent, inspired ball the final few weeks of the season. THAT is finishing strong. Like I said, the lack of depth/overall talent/experience was the difference in the W/L record, not the basketball that was being played. 

 

Nobody is applauding a last-place season. People are, however, choosing to watch the games instead of strictly basing the future on a W/L record and stat sheets. I saw zone being played this year; encouraging that we can mix it up with different defensive schemes. I saw terrific on & off the ball movement, especially as the season went on; encouraging considering the lack of time to build chemistry with a bunch of freshman mainly. I saw fight from a team that had every reason to pack it in with 2 big-man injuries and only 2 upperclassmen (not counting Smith) on the roster; encouraging when it comes to building the right culture to take that next step as a program. I saw us beat both of our rivals this year; encouraging considering both programs are multiple years into their respective coach's tenure. I saw us go toe-to-toe with the 3 seed in the quarters of the MAC tourney; encouraging that we can still hang with the upper echelon of the MAC in year one of Groce/the rebuild. Am I happy with a last-place record and a losing season? Heck no. Am I encouraged that the future is bright from what I saw? Heck yes. 

 

Get your eyes off the stat sheets and watch the games. The positives are there, I promise you. Don't be like the Braves talent executive from Trouble With the Curve that based a player's talent and outlook strictly off what he saw on his computer stat wise. The pillars and foundation were established this year. Now bring in the talent for phase two of the rebuild. 

Edited by Let'sGoZips94
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11 minutes ago, dre22era said:

So you were fine with 19-15 Vanderbilt not only making the Tourney last season but as a 9 seed over any MAC team resume wise 

 

The greed and corruption involved in the tournament bids and seeding is what it is. It's wrong, but I doubt it changes.

 

Not beating anyone worth a damn to post 25+ in the wins column, combined with head-scratching slip ups against teams like YSU, doesn't lead to at-large bids. It's not about how many wins you have, it's about who have you beaten and who have you lost to. The only inexcusable snubs recently (IIRC) have been Illinois State and Monmouth, both of which I believe had impressive resumes. I don't remember looking at any resumes of MAC schools over the past decade and thinking, "Wow. How did they not get an at-large bid?"

Edited by Let'sGoZips94
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12 minutes ago, Let'sGoZips94 said:

 

Don't forget 2014 - a semi-finals loss to WMU.

 

Here's my point of view. The '13-14 season was his 10th season at the helm of the program. To me, there should not be lulls when you're in your 10th season as the head coach of a program. We had 8 straight tournament finals appearances. What was missed in recruiting/coaching to not maintain that? I know that's a heck of a run, but when you have that kind of run, typically you take the next step with continued dominance. We didn't. We took 2 steps back. '13-14 & '14-15 ended with losses in the conference semis; I won't cut Dambrot much slack for the roster issues (I only remember Robotham?) because in your 11th season as HC, you should have better depth/talent to cover an injury or two. '15-16 ended with a disappointing loss to Buffalo in the MAC finals, and an even more disappointing loss to OSUcks in the NIT (inexcusable). '16-17 ended with a horrific loss to KSUcks in the MAC finals, and a blowout loss to UT Arlington (that Houston win does look better with them making the tourney this year). The basketball that ended those seasons, it wasn't fun to watch. We never finished strong. Those back-to-back finals appearances in '16 & '17, those were aided by the MAC being the MAC more than by us playing some of our best ball at the time. 

 

We struggled this year from early January to early/mid February, but ended up playing some excellent, inspired ball the final few weeks of the season. THAT is finishing strong. Like I said, the lack of depth/overall talent/experience was the difference in the W/L record, not the basketball that was being played. 

 

Nobody is applauding a last-place season. People are, however, choosing to watch the games instead of strictly basing the future on a W/L record and stat sheets. I saw zone being played this year; encouraging that we can mix it up with different defensive schemes. I saw terrific on & off the ball movement, especially as the season went on; encouraging considering the lack of time to build chemistry with a bunch of freshman mainly. I saw fight from a team that had every reason to pack it in with 2 big-man injuries and only 2 upperclassmen (not counting Smith) on the roster; encouraging when it comes to building the right culture to take that next step as a program. I saw us beat both of our rivals this year; encouraging considering both programs are multiple years into their respective coach's tenure. I saw us go toe-to-toe with the 3 seed in the quarters of the MAC tourney; encouraging that we can still hang with the upper echelon of the MAC in year one of Groce/the rebuild. Am I happy with a last-place record and a losing season? Heck no. Am I encouraged that the future is bright from what I saw? Heck yes. 

 

Get your eyes off the stat sheets and watch the games. The positives are there, I promise you. Don't be like the Braves talent executive from Trouble With the Curve that based a player's talent and outlook strictly off what he saw on his computer stat wise. The pillars and foundation were established this year. Now bring in the talent for phase two of the rebuild. 

 

I think you and maybe some others here don't appreciate how hard it was to do what Akron did over the past 13 years.  Saying they had success because the MAC wasn't strong, that a loss to Ohio State was "inexcusable", seemingly suggesting players didn't play hard.

 

I think you are giving breaks to Groce that you did not afford to KD.  Some of that is absolutely warranted, but trying to say this team finished strong and the past few year's teams haven't is a real stretch.  This season ended with our 2nd-to-last in the conference team blowing a 20 point lead to Eastern Michigan, which was followed by a press conference in which Groce chose to openly question his 's attitude.  I don't know how in the world that is finishing strong.

 

I like Groce.  I think he'll do well here.  I've said before that I think he'll get s a tourney win.  But it doesn't mean we have to play down past achievements or play up current ones, which I respectfully believe you are doing here.

 

 

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1 hour ago, UAZip0510 said:

 

I am OK with giving Groce a break based on the conditions of next year but I'm sorry, I can't accept this.  

 

It feels like the last few years weren't strong finishes because losing in the championship game really sucks and stings much more than losing a Thursday night game against Eastern Michigan to cap off a miserable season.  The Zips won 4 of their last 11 games.  That's not finishing strong.  If you're going to knock the previous teams based on losing the championship game, you can't overlook this one not being able to close out against Eastern Michigan.  Again, I want to be fair to Groce and this team, but I can't sit here and praise this team for finishing strong while simultaneously saying past teams, with better overall records, last 10 game records, and final result records, didn't finish strong.  

 

Dambrot takes Akron to the MAC Championship game 7 years in a row, 9 of 11 years.

wins championship 3 times. 

  2007 loses to Miami on 2 missed foul shots & a prayer 45’ of the board buzzer beater

  2016 loses to Buffalo on 25 footer

     Remember Abreu would have been reinststed   ,but got busted again, Treadwell was kicked off team & Forsight tapped out at end of year. Big Dog got over worked. Still in position to win.

that team w/ all the firepower in tact was a sweet sixteen team or better 

2017 best record in Akron history - lose to Kent because Walker was unstoppable. This year he is a bust. 

 

9 championship games out of 11

3 tourney champs. Without some bad look could have been 6. 

 

you really believe anyone can duplicate that?

 

He brought in some great players, made us proud to be a Zip, gave us great excitement & he loved Akron. He was & still is one of us.

Give him his due credit, quit bad mouthing him

  & move on.

 

 

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4 minutes ago, Zip44 said:

Dambrot takes Akron to the MAC Championship game 7 years in a row, 9 of 11 years.

wins championship 3 times. 

  2007 loses to Miami on 2 missed foul shots & a prayer 45’ of the board buzzer beater

  2016 loses to Buffalo on 25 footer

     Remember Abreu would have been reinststed   ,but got busted again, Treadwell was kicked off team & Forsight tapped out at end of year. Big Dog got over worked. Still in position to win.

that team w/ all the firepower in tact was a sweet sixteen team or better 

2017 best record in Akron history - lose to Kent because Walker was unstoppable. This year he is a bust. 

 

9 championship games out of 11

3 tourney champs. Without some bad look could have been 6. 

 

you really believe anyone can duplicate that?

 

He brought in some great players, made us proud to be a Zip, gave us great excitement & he loved Akron. He was & still is one of us.

Give him his due credit, quit bad mouthing him

  & move on.

 

 

Yes!

Scz6Ret.png

 

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7 minutes ago, UAZip0510 said:

 

I think you and maybe some others here don't appreciate how hard it was to do what Akron did over the past 13 years.  Saying they had success because the MAC wasn't strong, that a loss to Ohio State was "inexcusable", seemingly suggesting players didn't play hard.

 

I think you are giving breaks to Groce that you did not afford to KD.  Some of that is absolutely warranted, but trying to say this team finished strong and the past few year's teams haven't is a real stretch.  This season ended with our 2nd-to-last in the conference team blowing a 20 point lead to Eastern Michigan, which was followed by a press conference in which Groce chose to openly question his 's attitude.  I don't know how in the world that is finishing strong.

 

I like Groce.  I think he'll do well here.  I've said before that I think he'll get s a tourney win.  But it doesn't mean we have to play down past achievements or play up current ones, which I respectfully believe you are doing here.

 

 

 

I'm not saying what Akron has accomplished was easy. The reason for their success wasn't strictly based on the MAC's overall weak field. I also never said the players didn't play hard (not saying they did, but it wasn't good basketball, that much I know). The OSUcks loss was inexcusable considering OSUcks SUCKED that year, and all we had to do was shoot better than 40% from the free throw line to win that game in regulation; the FT problems in that game are magnified by the overall poor free throw shooting by Akron during Dambrot's time here. 

 

I'm not giving Groce any breaks that I didn't afford to KD. My issues with KD came in second half of his 13 years as head coach of the Zips. Actually, I will be grading Groce much tougher in years 3 and 4 due to the overall higher level of the program that KD took it to. Groce doesn't have 13 years in my book to accomplish what Dambrot did in his 13 years. Groce has 3-4 years to get me to the next level that Dambrot wasn't able to accomplish in 13 seasons. 

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8 minutes ago, Zip44 said:

Dambrot takes Akron to the MAC Championship game 7 years in a row, 9 of 11 years.

wins championship 3 times. 

  2007 loses to Miami on 2 missed foul shots & a prayer 45’ of the board buzzer beater

  2016 loses to Buffalo on 25 footer

     Remember Abreu would have been reinststed   ,but got busted again, Treadwell was kicked off team & Forsight tapped out at end of year. Big Dog got over worked. Still in position to win.

that team w/ all the firepower in tact was a sweet sixteen team or better 

2017 best record in Akron history - lose to Kent because Walker was unstoppable. This year he is a bust. 

 

9 championship games out of 11

3 tourney champs. Without some bad look could have been 6. 

 

you really believe anyone can duplicate that?

 

He brought in some great players, made us proud to be a Zip, gave us great excitement & he loved Akron. He was & still is one of us.

Give him his due credit, quit bad mouthing him

  & move on.

 

 

 

Buffalo is making their 3rd NCAA tournament appearance in 4 years. It's being duplicated and possibly bested right before our eyes. 

 

Side note: both of their previous appearances were single digit losses. Still losses, but much more competitive on that stage. 

Edited by Let'sGoZips94
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