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2017/2018 End of Season Thoughts

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13 minutes ago, Let'sGoZips94 said:

Buffalo is making their 3rd NCAA tournament appearance in 4 years. It's being duplicated and possibly bested right before our eyes. 

 

 

Side note: both of their previous appearances were single digit losses. Still losses, but much more competitive on that stage. 

 

So, I guess I can't ever say you don't give up.

 

Now you're touting Buffalo's recent success, and attempting to use that to disparage the most successful era of Akron Basketball ever, yet again? 

 

For what reason?

 

I'm sure Keith didn't try to steal your wife.  You have to give this up, man.  You're at the edge of the cliff, hanging on by your fingernails.  

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1 hour ago, zippy5 said:

RPI isn't used anymore

 

Every year, someone tries to spit out this cliche that the RPI has been booted from the process, and every year they are wrong.  However, you might be getting your wish in the future. 

 

"The selection committee still uses RPI to categorize teams"

https://www.landof10.com/big-ten/quadrants-ncaa-tournament-2018-selection-committee-bracketology

 

"This could be the last year RPI is the metric embedded in team sheets"

https://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/ncaa-tournament-selection-committee-leader-explains-why-even-easy-wins-matter/

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23 minutes ago, skip-zip said:

 

So, I guess I can't ever say you don't give up.

 

Now you're touting Buffalo's recent success, and attempting to use that to disparage the most successful era of Akron Basketball ever, yet again? 

 

For what reason?

 

I'm sure Keith didn't try to steal your wife.  You have to give this up, man.  You're at the edge of the cliff, hanging on by your fingernails.  

 

See, you take all of my comments as shots at KD. Some of them are, some of them are strictly comparisons. 

 

This is the thread for thoughts on the season that just ended. Some of the board members have a positive, optimistic outlook after the season. Others believe it was quite a disappointing season. Our most recent history has been used to come to both conclusions.

 

Zip44 insinuated that nobody can duplicate what Dambrot accomplished during his time here. I simply used Buffalo's current run as a rebuttal. 

 

I find it funny that arguably the best marketing slogan during Dambrot's time at Akron was "Think Bigger" yet I and others are constantly ridiculed for thinking bigger

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I admit I speak with a little bias on this topic. 

I lived in Richmond Virginia in the mid 90's finishing high school there. 

While I was there VCU was nothing more than a small commuter university serving as the little brother to the University of Richmond down the road. 

I have many friends who are VCU graduates and big time boosters. Watching their basketball program grow from a mediocre Sun Belt Conference team to a relevant Atlantic 10

team has been beyond amazing to me and the credit goes to the fan base that started the movement beginning with the 

Jeff Capel era in 2002. Now in the Colonial Athletic Association joining the conference in 1995 VCU won the Conference Championship 4 times in 10 years with 4 different coaches. 

Jeff Capel left for Oklahoma  after 4 years leading them to a Conference Title, NCAA and NIT bid 

 

Anthony Grant comes in and leads them to a 28-7 record, Conference Title and NCAA Second Round out the gate.

24-8 NIT Bid 

24-10 Conference Title NCAA First Round 

He leaves for Alabama and is now currently at Dayton 

Did VCU Fall off? Nope 

 

The Shaka Smart Era Begins 

27-9 records out the gate. They get screwed by the NCAA and NIT and goes to win the CBI (2009 Champs)

It was then the offers started coming in. The University, Boosters and Fan base rally together and push back at the Colonial Athletic Association for not speaking up and defending the conference. George Mason University who has their historic Final Four run in 2006 is also fed up with the conference. An alliance is formed also with Old Dominion to leave the conference.  

28-12 NCAA Final Four Run

29-7 Conference Champs, NCAA Third Round

Shaka is Dangling one foot out the door. UCLA is calling. Not only does the University, Students and Boosters come together to help Shaka get a raise the AD seals the deal and VCU leaves the 1 Bid Colonial Athletic Association Conference for the Atlantic 10. George Mason and Old Dominion join the following year crippling the Colonial Athletic Association. 

First 2 years in the A10 

27-9/26/9 making it to the conference finals. At Large bids both years 

26-10 and Conference Title NCAA Second Round in Shaka's last year (2014). 

Shaka leaves for Texas

Did VCU fall off? Nope

 

The Will Wade Era Begins 25-11 Conference Final At Large Bid NCAA Third Round out the gate 

Atlantic 10 had 3 Bids that season. (Must be nice)

26-8  Conference Final and NCAA Second Round (2017)

2018 under new coach Mike Rhoades is the first season VCU did not make it to any tournament declining any invites with a 18-15 record. 

 

All it takes is Unity believing in what we have in regards to our worth and Akron can achieve this 

So when I voice my constant frustration in regards to the current state of our program this is the Standard/Formula I am leaning on which I believe we can accomplish too.  

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by dre22era

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16 minutes ago, dre22era said:

I admit I speak with a little bias on this topic. 

I lived in Richmond Virginia in the mid 90's finishing high school there. 

While I was there VCU was nothing more than a small commuter university serving as the little brother to the University of Richmond down the road. 

I have many friends who are VCU graduates and big time boosters. Watching their basketball program grow from a mediocre Sun Belt Conference team to a relevant Atlantic 10

team has been beyond amazing to me and the credit goes to the fan base that started the movement beginning with the 

Jeff Capel era in 2002. Now in the Colonial Athletic Association joining the conference in 1995 VCU won the Conference Championship 4 times in 10 years with 4 different coaches. 

Jeff Capel left for Oklahoma  after 4 years leading them to a Conference Title, NCAA and NIT bid 

 

Anthony Grant comes in and leads them to a 28-7 record, Conference Title and NCAA Second Round out the gate.

24-8 NIT Bid 

24-10 Conference Title NCAA First Round 

He leaves for Alabama and is now currently at Dayton 

Did VCU Fall off? Nope 

 

The Shaka Smart Era Begins 

27-9 records out the gate. They get screwed by the NCAA and NIT and goes to win the CBI (2009 Champs)

It was then the offers started coming in. The University, Boosters and Fan base rally together and push back at the Colonial Athletic Association for not speaking up and defending the conference. George Mason University who has their historic Final Four run in 2006 is also fed up with the conference. An alliance is formed also with Old Dominion to leave the conference.  

28-12 NCAA Final Four Run

29-7 Conference Champs, NCAA Third Round

Shaka is Dangling one foot out the door. UCLA is calling. Not only does the University, Students and Boosters come together to help Shaka get a raise the AD seals the deal and VCU leaves the 1 Bid Colonial Athletic Association Conference for the Atlantic 10. George Mason and Old Dominion join the following year crippling the Colonial Athletic Association. 

First 2 years in the A10 

27-9/26/9 making it to the conference finals. At Large bids both years 

26-10 and Conference Title NCAA Second Round in Shaka's last year (2014). 

Shaka leaves for Texas

Did VCU fall off? Nope

 

The Will Wade Era Begins 25-11 Conference Final At Large Bid NCAA Third Round out the gate 

Atlantic 10 had 3 Bids that season. (Must be nice)

26-8  Conference Final and NCAA Second Round (2017)

2018 under new coach Mike Rhoades is the first season VCU did not make it to any tournament declining any invites with a 18-15 record. 

 

All it takes is Unity believing in what we have in regards to our worth and Akron can achieve this 

So when I voice my constant frustration in regards to the current state of our program this is the Standard/Formula I am leaning on which I believe we can accomplish too.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

What I see from this...

 

Anthony Grant build a solid program, and left the program in a decent condition. Shaka took over and built a very strong program. Eventually left for Texas, but left VCU with a presumably strong program still. Will Wade took over, riding the wave that Shaka's success created. He progressively got worse (NCAA 2nd Round in his first year, NCAA 1st Round in his second year), but quickly jumped ship for LSU, leaving behind a bit of a mess for Mike Rhoades, who failed to make any post-season tournament (declining the CBI/CIT, correct?) in his first year. 

 

So what you're saying is the drop off occurs when the previous coach leaves the program a bit of a mess? Thank you for drawing that comparison to the '17-18 Akron program. 

 

Also, thank you for bringing up VCU as a comparison. One of Dambrot's assistants left to coach VCU, and made his own luck/success at VCU, taking that school to the next level and into the A10. Did the CAA win those NCAA tournament games? Nope. Did the CAA beat those high-caliber schools? Nope. Shaka and VCU did. They didn't need the CAA's help. 

 

And that's why I'm optimistic about next year and the future in general. I think we have a guy at the helm of our basketball program that isn't going to look for others to help him become successful. He's going to build the success on his own. 

Edited by Let'sGoZips94

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I never said this team was better than the past two years I said they were playing their best basketball at the end of the year unlike the last two.  Last year 2-3 to end the regular season (after being 22-4), 2016 3-2 (after being 21-5) and both years losing as higher seeds in the tournament.  Is that playing their best?  Anyone watching this year knows they were playing their best at the end.  Don’t let basketball knowledge get in the way.

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1 minute ago, ZIPS96 said:

I never said this team was better than the past two years I said they were playing their best basketball at the end of the year unlike the last two.  Last year 2-3 to end the regular season (after being 22-4), 2016 3-2 (after being 21-5) and both years losing as higher seeds in the tournament.  Is that playing their best?  Anyone watching this year knows they were playing their best at the end.  Don’t let basketball knowledge get in the way.

 

Bingo. 

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14 minutes ago, Let'sGoZips94 said:

See, you take all of my comments as shots at KD. Some of them are

 

I'd say that reaching deep for an obscure piece of data like the score differentials of NCAA games that Buffalo played in, vs. the score differentials of NCAA games that Akron played in, with no other factors involved, is a clear attempt to accomplish just that.  And that's what was in your post that prompted the reply I posted.  

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2 hours ago, dre22era said:

I believe KD would still be in Akron if our AD and MAC commish at least made an effort to speak out and defend our resume and conference. 

Look at 2007 for example. We go 26-7 and 13-3 in conference with arguably our most talented team ever. Lose on a buzzer beater to Miami of Ohio and don't even get an invite to the NIT. 

The MAC should of rightfully been a multiple bid conference for years now. In 2010, Kent had an RPI of 57. Toledo was No. 36 in 2014, Akron No. 34 in 2016 but no one was selected.

The MAC hasn't received and At Large bid since Miami of Ohio in 1998.  So you are a coach who is leading your team to multiple 25+ winning seasons and no one from the AD to the President to the MAC commish is vouching for you. Your season is basically thrown away after losing in the MAC Championship, I would leave too. 

When Stan Heath left Kent after their historical Elite Eight run in 2002 he said he left because had Kent lost in the MAC Tournament they likely would not have even been selected as an at-large.

You're living in fantasy land if you think any MAC AD or the MAC commissioner has power to persuade the tournament selection committee into makingthe MAC a 2 bid league.

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13 minutes ago, Let'sGoZips94 said:

 

What I see from this...

 

Anthony Grant build a solid program, and left the program in a decent condition. Shaka took over and built a very strong program. Eventually left for Texas, but left VCU with a presumably strong program still. Will Wade took over, riding the wave that Shaka's success created. He progressively got worse (NCAA 2nd Round in his first year, NCAA 1st Round in his second year), but quickly jumped ship for LSU, leaving behind a bit of a mess for Mike Rhoades, who failed to make any post-season tournament (declining the CBI/CIT, correct?) in his first year. 

 

So what you're saying is the drop off occurs when the previous coach leaves the program a bit of a mess? Thank you for drawing that comparison to the '17-18 Akron program. 

 

Also, thank you for bringing up VCU as a comparison. One of Dambrot's assistants left to coach VCU, and made his own luck/success at VCU, taking that school to the next level and into the A10. Did the CAA win those NCAA tournament games? Nope. Did the CAA beat those high-caliber schools? Nope. Shaka and VCU did. They didn't need the CAA's help. 

 

And that's why I'm optimistic about next year and the future in general. I think we have a guy at the helm of our basketball program that isn't going to look for others to help him become successful. He's going to build the success on his own. 

Im saying the program didn't drop off after a coach left because a solid fan base and support has been established. 
New on campus arena also built in this time span too. 

the CAA lost its best team because the Conference made little to no effort to defend their best teams when they rightfully needed to be defended which I believe has exactly been going on with the MAC as the commish only continuously chooses to point the finger at the schools deflecting any criticism of himself while our AD continues to be mute period. 

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2 minutes ago, Hilltopper said:

You're living in fantasy land if you think any MAC AD or the MAC commissioner has power to persuade the tournament selection committee into makingthe MAC a 2 bid league.

Welp I guess im an idiot then 

Its not about Power its about speaking up period. 

 

Hell I wish we could trade our President who wants to be at UCF for their AD. 

A AD who has a nation rallying behind them on getting screwed over in the BCS 

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33 minutes ago, ZIPS96 said:

I never said this team was better than the past two years I said they were playing their best basketball at the end of the year unlike the last two.  Last year 2-3 to end the regular season (after being 22-4), 2016 3-2 (after being 21-5)

 

Just when I thought that LetsGoZips94 should receive the award for conveniently eliminating every fact possible, until they can parse out a snippet in time that might support their false theory, I see this.  :lol:

 

And let me guess:  You're also one of the same people who supports the claim that our performance in the MAC Tournament is the only thing that matters?  Yet, you cite our worst tournament performance in 14 years as your supporting evidence of "playing our best at the end of the year"?

Edited by skip-zip

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4 minutes ago, dre22era said:

Welp I guess im an idiot then 

Its not about Power its about speaking up period. 

 

Hell I wish we could trade our President who wants to be at UCF for their AD. 

A AD who has a nation rallying behind them on getting screwed over in the BCS 

 

Dre, I find many of your posts to be rather brash, and a little over the top.

 

But, it would be impossible for someone to argue with you about this right here.  

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1 hour ago, dre22era said:

I want in the American Conference 

 

I'd love that, but I don't see the love being returned from them or the A10 and they have to want the Zips as much as the Zips may want them.

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20 minutes ago, ZIPS96 said:

I never said this team was better than the past two years I said they were playing their best basketball at the end of the year unlike the last two.  Last year 2-3 to end the regular season (after being 22-4), 2016 3-2 (after being 21-5) and both years losing as higher seeds in the tournament.  Is that playing their best?  Anyone watching this year knows they were playing their best at the end.  Don’t let basketball knowledge get in the way.

 

You can do a lot with numbers.  You cite a 2-3 finish in 16-17 - odd that you cut off the 3 straight wins before that, but I guess 5-3 doesn't sound as bad.  Citing 3-2 in 15-16, but I guess them winning 7 out of their last 10 doesn't sound as bad.  Don't let your obvious bias get in the way.

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2 minutes ago, clarkwgriswold said:

 

I'd love that, but I don't see the love being returned from them or the A10 and they have to want the Zips as much as the Zips may want them.

I agree and it starts with us. Right now we are not desirable. Like @Zip44 pointed out earlier. We didn't take advantage of golden opportunities 

If we put our for sale sign in the window the past few years I believe we would of drawn interest. 

 

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This is obviously getting into semantics but citing your last ten as how you finished is going back pretty far in my opinion.. that's over half of your league games.

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20 minutes ago, dre22era said:

I agree and it starts with us. Right now we are not desirable. Like @Zip44 pointed out earlier. We didn't take advantage of golden opportunities 

If we put our for sale sign in the window the past few years I believe we would of drawn interest. 

 

 

We certainly missed opportunities.  I keep going back to something LGZ said:

 

"And that's why I'm optimistic about next year and the future in general. I think we have a guy at the helm of our basketball program that isn't going to look for others to help him become successful. He's going to build the success on his own."

 

John Groce shouldn't be building this alone, now should KD have been asked to.  To become an elite mid-major, you need help from your President, your AD, your alumni, your students.  No coach should be trying to build this alone.  Has anyone seen/heard from our AD?

Edited by UAZip0510

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To get back on track, since this is a 17-18 thread, and the comment starting this was we were playing our best basketball to end the year.. I think anyone that actually watched the games would agree that was the case. You could make an argument that our best ball was perhaps leading up to halftime of the USC game, but we also had E and Sayles. I'm encouraged by the progress and fight we saw from such a shorthanded team.

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4 minutes ago, zippy5 said:

This is obviously getting into semantics but citing your last ten as how you finished is going back pretty far in my opinion.. that's over half of your league games.

 

Just pointing out that you can use numbers to support just about any argument.  Those teams finished as strong as/stronger than this year's team.  Thursday's loss just didn't sting as much because deep down we all know this team wasn't very good.

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1 minute ago, zippy5 said:

To get back on track, since this is a 17-18 thread, and the comment starting this was we were playing our best basketball to end the year.. I think anyone that actually watched the games would agree that was the case. You could make an argument that our best ball was perhaps leading up to halftime of the USC game, but we also had E and Sayles. I'm encouraged by the progress and fight we saw from such a shorthanded team.

 

I can accept that THIS team played its best basketball late.  It's the suggestion that they finished stronger than past year's teams that I find laughable.

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3 minutes ago, zippy5 said:

To get back on track, since this is a 17-18 thread, and the comment starting this was we were playing our best basketball to end the year.. I think anyone that actually watched the games would agree that was the case.

 

Yes, absolutely.  I can agree with you on this.  They were playing THEIR best basketball near the end.  

 

Where this thread got "Off The Tracks" was when someone started the ridiculous crap about this team playing better than the previous 2 teams at the end of the year. 

 

You can compare this particular team against themselves, and say that they played some better basketball near the end.  It should end right there.  

 

 

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1 minute ago, UAZip0510 said:

 

We certainly missed opportunities.  I keep going back to something LGZ said:

 

"And that's why I'm optimistic about next year and the future in general. I think we have a guy at the helm of our basketball program that isn't going to look for others to help him become successful. He's going to build the success on his own."

 

John Groce shouldn't be building this alone, now should KD have been asked to.  To become an elite mid-major, you need help from your President, your AD, your alumni, your students.  No coach should be trying to build this alone.  

Exactly it starts with all of us 

And in regards to the fan base we packed the JAR the past few years. We have been there 

My anger has been directed towards the AD/President and MAC 
And i haven't even spoke on our scheduling 

UT MARTIN

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APPALACHIAN STATE

MISSISSIPPI VALLEY STATE

CONCORD

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