Balsy Posted March 25, 2018 Report Share Posted March 25, 2018 18 hours ago, CDMac said: Scrimmage Observations 13 Defense (Butler) led team prayer Isn't that a no-no? I suppose it is optional to participate... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachTheZip Posted March 25, 2018 Report Share Posted March 25, 2018 4 hours ago, LZIp said: ??? have you never played a team sport? 2 hours ago, CDMac said: I'm not sure I follow why a team prayer would be a no-no. 4 hours ago, zippy5 said: Lol I was actually going to post that and then I read your post It's legally fine as long as it's not compulsory. Having participation in a prayer be mandatory would create a massive headache for a government institution. But as far as even having a team prayer goes, I can see it potentially causing problems with team cohesiveness. It creates divisions between religious and non-religious teammates, to say nothing of teammates that may practice different religions or even different denominations of the same religion, depending on how the prayer is conducted. I don't see why you would want to introduce potential conflicts like that into the locker room. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LZIp Posted March 25, 2018 Report Share Posted March 25, 2018 10 minutes ago, ZachTheZip said: It's legally fine as long as it's not compulsory. Having participation in a prayer be mandatory would create a massive headache for a government institution. But as far as even having a team prayer goes, I can see it potentially causing problems with team cohesiveness. It creates divisions between religious and non-religious teammates, to say nothing of teammates that may practice different religions or even different denominations of the same religion, depending on how the prayer is conducted. I don't see why you would want to introduce potential conflicts like that into the locker room. It would be news to me if there was a single high school, collegiate (well maybe not counting Oberlin), or professional team who did not have some sort of prayer before and/or after games. The essential gist for those of you who may not know, at least in my experience, is "thank you God for looking over our teammates and keeping us safe. Please look over x player who was injured." I certainly wouldn't consider it preaching/pushing religious beliefs upon people. If participating offends you that much? Don't bow your head. Just like you'd do in a wedding or a funeral or whatever else it may come up. I agree with you that it *could* create problems, because this is America in 2018 and everybody has to be offended over something, but I've never heard of anyone creating a stink over it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachTheZip Posted March 25, 2018 Report Share Posted March 25, 2018 6 minutes ago, LZIp said: It would be news to me if there was a single high school, collegiate (well maybe not counting Oberlin), or professional team who did not have some sort of prayer before and/or after games. The essential gist for those of you who may not know, at least in my experience, is "thank you God for looking over our teammates and keeping us safe. Please look over x player who was injured." I certainly wouldn't consider it preaching/pushing religious beliefs upon people. If participating offends you that much? Don't bow your head. Just like you'd do in a wedding or a funeral or whatever else it may come up. I agree with you that it *could* create problems, because this is America in 2018 and everybody has to be offended over something, but I've never heard of anyone creating a stink over it. The Supreme Court has ruled on it three times. In 1962, they ruled that prayer can not be initiated by a public school, as that would violate the Establishment Clause. In 1992, they expanded on that ruling to say that schools can not invite members of the clergy (even non-denominational ones like they have at The Chapel across the street from campus) to lead prayer on school grounds. Finally in 2000, they ruled that students can engage in prayer that is voluntary, led by the students and done without official permission from the school, which means that school officials/employees can not make an announcement or acknowledge that a time for prayer is about to begin. I don't have a problem with it, but when the Supreme Court rules three times on something, I figure that it's best to steer far, far away from that topic when you're a large and highly-visible government institution. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balsy Posted March 30, 2018 Author Report Share Posted March 30, 2018 On 3/25/2018 at 1:22 PM, LZIp said: ??? have you never played a team sport? Yes, and there was never a team prayer. (separation between church-and-state and all) On 3/25/2018 at 3:28 PM, CDMac said: I'm not sure I follow why a team prayer would be a no-no. Because one might be pressured into participating. On 3/25/2018 at 6:14 PM, ZachTheZip said: It's legally fine as long as it's not compulsory. Having participation in a prayer be mandatory would create a massive headache for a government institution. But as far as even having a team prayer goes, I can see it potentially causing problems with team cohesiveness. It creates divisions between religious and non-religious teammates, to say nothing of teammates that may practice different religions or even different denominations of the same religion, depending on how the prayer is conducted. I don't see why you would want to introduce potential conflicts like that into the locker room. That's mainly why I asked. On 3/25/2018 at 6:38 PM, LZIp said: It would be news to me if there was a single high school, collegiate (well maybe not counting Oberlin), or professional team who did not have some sort of prayer before and/or after games. The essential gist for those of you who may not know, at least in my experience, is "thank you God for looking over our teammates and keeping us safe. Please look over x player who was injured." I certainly wouldn't consider it preaching/pushing religious beliefs upon people. If participating offends you that much? Because which "god" are you praying to? Allah? Oden? Ninutra?The Great Ju-Ju up the mountain? IDK, this is where I disagree with you, it is preachy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LZIp Posted March 30, 2018 Report Share Posted March 30, 2018 (edited) 24 minutes ago, Balsy said: Because which "god" are you praying to? Allah? Oden? Ninutra?The Great Ju-Ju up the mountain? IDK, this is where I disagree with you, it is preachy. Of course you do. What don't you disagree with or question? You're probably against saying the pledge of allegiance as well since it has "God" in it. The horror! For the record, I'm not religious. I enjoyed some pepperoni pizza for lunch today. Just can think of a million other things I give a damn more about. Edited March 30, 2018 by LZIp 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zipsoutsider Posted March 30, 2018 Report Share Posted March 30, 2018 TB has never hid his religious tendencies and there have been team prayers, I believe,l since he arrived. IIRC, Justin March said something to the effect that it was a easier time be a Christian on the team after TB arrived. TB shares his life philosophy just like PJ Fleck shared his. If there is a problem, it would likely come from an outsider and I am not sure why people who are not team members have an issue with a team prayer unless they are really religiously intolerant, honestly. With all that is wrong with the world, opioid addictions increasing teen suicide rates, violence, and other issues, a team prayer should be the least of anyone's worries. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zippy5 Posted March 30, 2018 Report Share Posted March 30, 2018 20 minutes ago, zipsoutsider said: TB has never hid his religious tendencies and there have been team prayers, I believe,l since he arrived. IIRC, Justin March said something to the effect that it was a easier time be a Christian on the team after TB arrived. TB shares his life philosophy just like PJ Fleck shared his. If there is a problem, it would likely come from an outsider and I am not sure why people who are not team members have an issue with a team prayer unless they are really religiously intolerant, honestly. With all that is wrong with the world, opioid addictions increasing teen suicide rates, violence, and other issues, a team prayer should be the least of anyone's worries. Maybe they just want to complain. If the team is fine with it, and I'm sure they are just like every other team in the history of ever, then who gives a sht 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balsy Posted March 30, 2018 Author Report Share Posted March 30, 2018 (edited) 2 hours ago, LZIp said: Of course you do. What don't you disagree with or question? You're probably against saying the pledge of allegiance as well since it has "God" in it. The horror! For the record, I'm not religious. I enjoyed some pepperoni pizza for lunch today. Just can think of a million other things I give a damn more about. Well now, that you bring it up; the original pledge of allegiance didn't have "God" in it...which is why it's grammatically incorrect to this day...it read "one nation indivisible". The line "under god" was later added in the 1950's. Ironically, the pledge of allegiance was written by christian socialists, as a means for indoctrination of patriotism. Edited March 30, 2018 by Balsy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hilltopper Posted March 31, 2018 Report Share Posted March 31, 2018 3 hours ago, Captain Kangaroo said: I think it's kinda sad that CDMac took the time to drive to the scrimmage and give us a nice write up, and the only thing that a couple fans can focus on is the 15 second team prayer. Jesus... 3 hours ago, Balsy said: Well now, that you bring it up; the original pledge of allegiance didn't have "God" in it...which is why it's grammatically incorrect to this day...it read "one nation indivisible". The line "under god" was later added in the 1950's. Ironically, the pledge of allegiance was written by christian socialists, as a means for indoctrination of patriotism. 3 hours ago, Balsy said: I was just curious. Akron is a public institution... Apparently not. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balsy Posted March 31, 2018 Author Report Share Posted March 31, 2018 13 hours ago, Hilltopper said: Apparently not. Apparently you can't read; the other response was a response to someone else; therefore yes in fact I was just curious. Don't project the triggered nature of other members on to me. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
94zipgrad Posted March 31, 2018 Report Share Posted March 31, 2018 (edited) Why is this such a big deal? Hickson, old RB Coach was pretty religious & ran a non denominational group for the players if they where interested, there are a lot of demands on these kids & many are away from family & if there are people or groups that help them get through, that is great, I believe that most people pray at some level, I’m glad they have a team prayer & im sure it won’t be held against you if you don’t participate. GO ZIPS, Happy Easter Edited March 31, 2018 by 94zipgrad 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Let'sGoZips94 Posted March 31, 2018 Report Share Posted March 31, 2018 Excuse me? Happy Easter? This is a public forum. How about "Happy first Sunday in April"? Seriously, when does the real QB competition start? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balsy Posted April 2, 2018 Author Report Share Posted April 2, 2018 Indeed. Happy Zombie-jesus-pagan-spring-fertility-equinox-celebration day! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-Roo Posted April 2, 2018 Report Share Posted April 2, 2018 (edited) On 3/25/2018 at 6:14 PM, ZachTheZip said: It's legally fine as long as it's not compulsory. Having participation in a prayer be mandatory would create a massive headache for a government institution. But as far as even having a team prayer goes, I can see it potentially causing problems with team cohesiveness. It creates divisions between religious and non-religious teammates, to say nothing of teammates that may practice different religions or even different denominations of the same religion, depending on how the prayer is conducted. I don't see why you would want to introduce potential conflicts like that into the locker room. Why is it the new world we live in has decided any reference to God in public must be illegal or divisive? School prayer rulings do not apply to a college or university because the students are all over 18 -- that makes them adults. They are able to participate in a team prayer if they desire to -- or they can decide not to. I mean really --- are they adults or not? As long as there are no penalties for non-participation -- and it is not mandatory -- it is perfectly fine. Edited April 2, 2018 by K-Roo fix 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balsy Posted April 2, 2018 Author Report Share Posted April 2, 2018 (edited) 22 hours ago, zipsoutsider said: Wow. What a jackass. 21 hours ago, Let'sGoZips94 said: Seeing as both of you either didn't take basic Western Civ at Akron, or pay attention...here ya go: From a biased source Billy Graham From Trumpet Ministries (another Biased source) (quoted below) Quote By now, the readers of this tract should have made the connection that paganism has infiltrated the contemporary "Christian" churches, and further study indicates that this paganism came in by way of the Roman Catholic System. The truth is that Easter has nothing whatsoever to do with the resurrection of our Lord Jesus Christ. We also know that Easter can be as much as three weeks away from the Passover, because the pagan holiday is always set as the first Sunday after the first full moon after the spring equinox. Edited April 2, 2018 by Balsy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hilltopper Posted April 3, 2018 Report Share Posted April 3, 2018 2 hours ago, Balsy said: Seeing as both of you either didn't take basic Western Civ at Akron, or pay attention...here ya go: From a biased source Billy Graham From Trumpet Ministries (another Biased source) (quoted below) Semantics my friend. Christians celebrate the resurrection of Jesus Christ. Just because over the last 2000+ years the modern Christian church has decided to celebrate on a particular day changes nothing. It is ironic that this year Easter does fall on the traditional Jewish Passover Holiday. Jesus became the ultimate Passover lamb who gave his life for our sins. Yours too if you choose to accept the gift of Gods grace. Peace. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hilltopper Posted April 3, 2018 Report Share Posted April 3, 2018 Thanks for moving this to the appropriate forum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balsy Posted April 3, 2018 Author Report Share Posted April 3, 2018 6 hours ago, Hilltopper said: Semantics my friend. Christians celebrate the resurrection of Jesus Christ. Just because over the last 2000+ years the modern Christian church has decided to celebrate on a particular day changes nothing. It is ironic that this year Easter does fall on the traditional Jewish Passover Holiday. Jesus became the ultimate Passover lamb who gave his life for our sins. Yours too if you choose to accept the gift of Gods grace. Peace. It's not semantics at all. Passover is also based on the spring equinox: The Jewish calendar is a Lunar Calendar...which is why the date shifts every year for passover, because it's based on the spring equinox. I wonder why the Jewish Calendar is a Lunar-based one... Human celebrations on the Spring-equinox predate christianity and Judaism; Horus (the Egyptian god) was born on December 25th, died and was later resurrected on the Spring-equinox. As was Dionysus (roman god)...as was Inaan (sumerian goddes) as was Mithra (a mysterious religion that shares a lot of similarities to the early christians at the same time). It's pretty evident a lot of religions borrowed wholesale traditions and customs from each other; babylonian captivity of the Jews is such an even in Jewish writings when they began to incorporate Babylonian ideals into their own teachings/writings. It's not surprising that northern hemisphere cultures would, almost unanimously, make the spring-equinox of significance both culturally and religiously; because the spring equinox is when the sun is over the equator which is important for agrarian societies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kreed5120 Posted April 3, 2018 Report Share Posted April 3, 2018 Love the thread rename. Once again another thread hijacked by Balsy feeling the need to impose his political and/or religious beliefs on others... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balsy Posted April 4, 2018 Author Report Share Posted April 4, 2018 On 4/3/2018 at 12:53 PM, kreed5120 said: Love the thread rename. Once again another thread hijacked by Balsy feeling the need to impose his political and/or religious beliefs on others... On the contrary, Balsy was simply telling accurate information/leveling the playing field. It's not my fault others are such easily triggered snowflakes that can't handle not having the privilege of being able to say whatever they want without a response. Nothing I said was inappropriate, imposing by beliefs (either religious or political). I simply pointed out facts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kreed5120 Posted April 4, 2018 Report Share Posted April 4, 2018 4 minutes ago, Balsy said: On the contrary, Balsy was simply telling accurate information/leveling the playing field. It's not my fault others are such easily triggered snowflakes that can't handle not having the privilege of being able to say whatever they want without a response. Nothing I said was inappropriate, imposing by beliefs (either religious or political). I simply pointed out facts. It was pretty irrelevant information to the topic at hand and completely derailed the thread, hence why the mods moved it. I, like many, come to this forum to discuss Zips sports, not to debate whether team prayer is a violation of separation of church and state. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balsy Posted April 4, 2018 Author Report Share Posted April 4, 2018 31 minutes ago, kreed5120 said: It was pretty irrelevant information to the topic at hand and completely derailed the thread, hence why the mods moved it. I, like many, come to this forum to discuss Zips sports, not to debate whether team prayer is a violation of separation of church and state. Than there's no need to bring up a team prayer, like you said, if it's about "just sports". I was legitimately curious as to was it a team sanctioned "team prayer" or not, because that is a curious thing about a public school. It was other people who got their underwear in a bunch, and later called be a jackass for saying something that sarcastic but is objectively and factually accurate. Y'all need to stop getting so triggered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kreed5120 Posted April 4, 2018 Report Share Posted April 4, 2018 1 hour ago, Balsy said: Than there's no need to bring up a team prayer, like you said, if it's about "just sports". I was legitimately curious as to was it a team sanctioned "team prayer" or not, because that is a curious thing about a public school. It was other people who got their underwear in a bunch, and later called be a jackass for saying something that sarcastic but is objectively and factually accurate. Y'all need to stop getting so triggered. Frankly I don't care if they pray or not and I wasn't really personally offended by anything you said. I'm just sick of seeing the back and forth political debates overtake the sports section on this forum. Part of what makes sports great is it's suppose to be an escape from reality. The back and forth bicker is honestly driving down the amount I frequent this site. I'm sure I'm not the only one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balsy Posted April 4, 2018 Author Report Share Posted April 4, 2018 (edited) 44 minutes ago, kreed5120 said: Part of what makes sports great is it's suppose to be an escape from reality. The back and forth bicker is honestly driving down the amount I frequent this site. I'm sure I'm not the only one. Yes, yes it is. But there is a significant amount of people, that you are currently defending, that do this far more frequently than I do. You and several other members, always seem to get mad at me when I'm responding to it. I get hypocritically called out for it on this forum all the time and it's BS. People will criticize me, but not criticize the people who actually start making things political. Off-the-cusp comments with political undertones are made ALL THE TIME here, not by me. But because I have a differing opinion than other people, I get called out for it. It's kinda a joke. Honestly it's driven me from this site. This was the first time I've visited in weeks, and seriously had a question about something I found weird, and people immediately get their underwear in a bunch. Most of the people I know who were driven from this site were driven away because of the over-dominance of one political-ideology that would keep inserting itself over-and-over again on this forum. (spoiler alert, it wasn't mine!). Several of those members to whom I refer, received a temporary ban for their actions, and demeanor. I'd encourage you to go back and look at the comments. My first one, was not hyperbolic...or inflamatory...just a question. Edited April 4, 2018 by Balsy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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