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kreed5120

Big Buyouts at U of Akron

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Cutting programs/enrollment can't be a positive thing for the Athletic Dept.

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It is absolutely unreal what is happening to our University!

 

If all of this is enrollment related, why haven't other Ohio public universities been affected in a similar way?

 

All of the associated negative attention only further perpetuates that UA is not a good place to go, so how could we expect that cutting academic programs and professors would improve the situation and enhance enrollment? If you are a high school junior or senior or their parents, why would you consider attending UA given these circumstances?

 

I have zero confidence in UA's leadership right now.

 

While we're at it, let's put this out there too:

 

https://www.ohio.com/news/20190318/ua-losing-top-polymer-researcher-13-person-lab-to-duke-university

Edited by UAZipster0305
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All the other state universities are being affected by this other than OSU, UC and Miami, and Miami is only holding on because they relentlessly recruit out of state students.  It's hitting Akron the hardest because of years of Proenza's reckless spending binge followed by mediocre or worse leadership that only cared about getting to the next job.  This is undoubtedly going to feed the element in state government that's long advocated consolidating programs and even campuses and instituting a much more rigid, structured system, and can you blame them?  Proenza's building spree will be exhibit A in the argument to reign in "empire building" within the system.  This is a system that funds more public law schools and the same number of public medical schools as California. It's been heading for this cliff for a long time.

Edited by zip-O-matic
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1 hour ago, zip-O-matic said:

All the other state universities are being affected by this other than OSU, UC and Miami, and Miami is only holding on because they relentlessly recruit out of state students.  It's hitting Akron the hardest because of years of Proenza's reckless spending binge followed by mediocre or worse leadership that only cared about getting to the next job.  This is undoubtedly going to feed the element in state government that's long advocated consolidating programs and even campuses and instituting a much more rigid, structured system, and can you blame them?  Proenza's building spree will be exhibit A in the argument to reign in "empire building" within the system.  This is a system that funds more public law schools and the same number of public medical schools as California. It's been heading for this cliff for a long time.

There are a lot of things to not like about California politics, but I think it's hard to deny that they're ahead of the game when it comes to operating a functional public university system. Below are a list of public universities they have that are in the top 100 best public universities based upon US News and World Reports annual rankings. Akron, Kent, YSU, and Cleveland State should be working together to offer NEO residents the highest level education possible at the lowest cost. They shouldn't be competing to see which one of them can build the largest rock climbing wall.

 

1) UCLA

2) UC - Berkeley

5) UC - Santa Barbara

7) UC - Irvine

10) UC - Davis

11) UC - San Diego

26) UC - Santa Cruz

35) UC - Riverside

60) San Diego State University

67) UC - Merced

 

 

 

https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/rankings/national-universities/top-public

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27 minutes ago, kreed5120 said:

There are a lot of things to not like about California politics, but I think it's hard to deny that they're ahead of the game when it comes to operating a functional public university system. Below are a list of public universities they have that are in the top 100 best public universities based upon US News and World Reports annual rankings. Akron, Kent, YSU, and Cleveland State should be working together to offer NEO residents the highest level education possible at the lowest cost. They shouldn't be competing to see which one of them can build the largest rock climbing wall.

 

1) UCLA

2) UC - Berkeley

5) UC - Santa Barbara

7) UC - Irvine

10) UC - Davis

11) UC - San Diego

26) UC - Santa Cruz

35) UC - Riverside

60) San Diego State University

67) UC - Merced

 

 

 

https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/rankings/national-universities/top-public

 

 

The one thing that you have to accept with implementing a California type system is that not everybody gets to be Berkeley or even a UC campus.  Schools play a role in an overall system that doesn't allow them to change lanes and start empire building to seek prestige.  I don't know whether Ohio is capable of that.  They can't even take the simple step of calling OSU the "flagship" when it's as plain as day on the ground and historically.  And of course the great irony of that is that OSU hums along above the fray while the schools that have most strongly advocated the spread the peanut butter evenly and let every school determine its own course model are the ones heading off the cliff.

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39 minutes ago, zip-O-matic said:

 

 

The one thing that you have to accept with implementing a California type system is that not everybody gets to be Berkeley or even a UC campus.  Schools play a role in an overall system that doesn't allow them to change lanes and start empire building to seek prestige.  I don't know whether Ohio is capable of that.  They can't even take the simple step of calling OSU the "flagship" when it's as plain as day on the ground and historically.  And of course the great irony of that is that OSU hums along above the fray while the schools that have most strongly advocated the spread the peanut butter evenly and let every school determine its own course model are the ones heading off the cliff.

I'm well aware that Akron would become the designated STEM school of NEO. That's fine with me personally.

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28 minutes ago, kreed5120 said:

I'm well aware that Akron would become the designated STEM school of NEO. That's fine with me personally.

 

I think what you'd be looking at is a merger of Kent, Akron and NEO to create a Cincinnati type school.  I don't buy into this notion that you can create a "STEM school" that is taken seriously as a national or even regional university.  Even MIT and CalTech have respected history and economics departments. 

 

If you're truly  talking about a California style system, then you're talking about OSU as the flagship of the system, then a tier below that of UC, Ohio U., UA/KSU/NEO and BGSU/UT with regulated grad/professional programs.  These schools' role would not be to become OSU any more than it's UC Davis' role to challenge and compete with Berkeley.  I'm not sure how you fit in Miami without more thought.  The next tier down would be relatively easy admission, campuses with little or no grad programs (YSU, KSU, WSU) and beneath that the community college system.  Schools would be funded differently based on their roles in the system.

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Cleveland State is a neighbor, but being in a different athletic conference, it seems we know little about it. 

 

What programs are it notable for?

 

How would it fit in with Akron/Kent/YSU/NEO in a more unified state college system?

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As Zip-o-matic stated, some university has to serve the purpose of being the school with low admission standards. Perhaps the Akron/Kent school could house some satelite grad school programs there.

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One aspect of instituting such a system relative to many campuses' enrollment issues, is that you could negotiate with OSU to--in exchange for their recognized flagship role and separate funding model--to put a cap on enrollment.  I looked at their numbers for last Fall, and they enrolled 7900! freshman with an average ACT score of 30.  On top of that, they're stockpiling hundreds of kids in the 24-27 range at their branch campuses.  If they capped that at 6500, that's 1400 very well qualified students who would be looking elsewhere.  Some would go out of state, but most I think would end up at another Ohio public.  OSU probably doesn't want to do it voluntarily because the 1400 kids at the bottom of their class profile are probably paying full tuition as well as taking up a dorm bed for two years.  There'd need to be some kind of incentive to make it work on their end.  So they get their clearly designated flagship status and funding model, they get to ramp their selectivity up to Michigan levels, and the rest of the system gets an infusion of over a thousand well qualified kids.

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1 hour ago, zip-O-matic said:

One aspect of instituting such a system relative to many campuses' enrollment issues, is that you could negotiate with OSU to--in exchange for their recognized flagship role and separate funding model--to put a cap on enrollment.  I looked at their numbers for last Fall, and they enrolled 7900! freshman with an average ACT score of 30.  On top of that, they're stockpiling hundreds of kids in the 24-27 range at their branch campuses.  If they capped that at 6500, that's 1400 very well qualified students who would be looking elsewhere.  Some would go out of state, but most I think would end up at another Ohio public.  OSU probably doesn't want to do it voluntarily because the 1400 kids at the bottom of their class profile are probably paying full tuition as well as taking up a dorm bed for two years.  There'd need to be some kind of incentive to make it work on their end.  So they get their clearly designated flagship status and funding model, they get to ramp their selectivity up to Michigan levels, and the rest of the system gets an infusion of over a thousand well qualified kids.

 

Or just let them expand further and take over one or more of the NEO universities since they have the brand and the bucks. If they ever wanted to solidify their hold on Cleveland/Akron, the opportunity is before them now.

 

 

Edited by ZippyRulz

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I thank all of you for this discussion.  I am/have learned a lot, and it is being discussed in a very civil discourse.  Thanks to all posters so far....  

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On 3/22/2019 at 10:17 AM, ZippyRulz said:

 

Or just let them expand further and take over one or more of the NEO universities since they have the brand and the bucks. If they ever wanted to solidify their hold on Cleveland/Akron, the opportunity is before them now.

 

 

 

I doubt they want to take on management of any of the other schools.  Why add that hassle when they don't need to.  They're doing fine financially, enrollment-wise, in selectivity and fundraising.  Why upset the apple cart?  I'd guess that they'd try to influence any reforms to the system to their liking but not take any responsibility to actually step in and save any of the schools....in fact, maybe even try to gain some kind of autonomy from the state for themselves in the process. 

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Wow-- this is so much like many of my posts of prior years (usually around this time of year when there's neither football nor BB).

 

I have been a huge advocate for Kent and UA merging proactively before the state mandated it. It makes no sense for these 2 almost twin schools to exist 13 miles apart.  None.  UA and Kent should merge to create a NEO system, with almost 60K students, a handful of synergistic, world-class programs (liquid crystals and polymers), and a huge alumni base in NEO.  And of course, one set of sports programs, administrations, etc, would immediately save more than Akron projected deficit.  

 

It's hard to make a comparison to the Cali system-- the UC schools are almost all 'better' than Ohio's best public school (though I think rankings are bunk in general).  Ohio schools are more comparable to the Cal State schools.  And "below" that is Cal Community College system, which is the largest post secondary ed system in the world by itself (over 2.6 million students on 113 campuses; Cal State, the largest 4 yr system in the US, has nearly 500K students across 31 locations, and UC with 240K students at 9 colleges making up the highest ranked public universities and system in the world).

 

What's happened to UA is simply depressing.  Hard to see how it's not in a downward spiral caused by incredibly poor leadership.  Proenza was a fantastic president and gave UA a sense direction and movement. The 'Landscape for Learning' was a critical investment-- the campus was a total shithole eyesore and the investment in the campus at least made it passable.  I can't even imagine where enrollment would be without that.  

 

UA spends over $30 million on athletics and saddles its students with over $1000 annually to support those programs.  It's nuts.  If the will to merge UA and Kent can't be found, they should at least become completely interconnected and federated, sharing programs and ideally fielding a single football program-- that alone would save nearly $10M a year. 

 

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On 3/21/2019 at 10:42 AM, zip-O-matic said:

This is undoubtedly going to feed the element in state government that's long advocated consolidating programs and even campuses and instituting a much more rigid, structured system,

 

Unless that's been the plan all along.  Board of Trustees members of public universities are appointed by the governor and approved by the senate.  Board of Trustees members are in charge of overseeing administrations and picking new administrations.

Anyone following politics in the state of Ohio in regards to public education will have seen this strategy at work.

I'm personally split because I love my Akron Zips; however I'm also a huge advocate of significant lowering in the cost of attendance at public Universities for all college students in the state of Ohio.

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