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Smaller, Leaner athletic program...


zip81

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30 minutes ago, DannyHoke said:

Akron is a lot like Dayton, only UD is private and UA is public.  UA should look into privitizing the school, downsizing for the current economy, and dropping football from D1 to D3.  Play D1 in all other sports like Dayton, Davidson, Drake, San Diego, etc...  Lots of D3 football in the area and no reason why we could not make basketball a true powerhouse.  Football at the MAC level with MACtion killing the schedule every year is an anachronism. Get busy with a true strategic plan and leadership in athletics who operate in a transparent nature. Larry Williams has been too secretive in his operations, or in most cases, lack thereof. Since his hiring in 2015 he has been a ghost. His leadership is no where.  Contract is about up... don't look for a return.

 

Minor correction: The schools you mention play non-scholarship FCS football which was invented as a result of the Dayton Rule. The primary benefit of non-scholarship FCS is that because it is "D1" it enables the school to play D1basketball, but effectively it is glorified D3. A couple/few teams make the FCA playoffs each season and in fairly short order get waxed by a regular FCS team.

There are a lot fewer conveniently located non-scholarship FCS teams around. For example, the Pioneer League had to go to California and  Florida to form the conference which includes, among others, nearby Dayton and Butler.

Edited by Zipmeister
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I remember ole Matt stepping in as QB for a Cinci game years ago. Great benefactor to UA. Not sure about AD though, as every time I see him on TV he reminds me of Jim Carey (I'm talking about a place where the beer flows like wine, where the women instinctively flock like the salmon of Capistrano. I'm talking about Aspen.).    

 

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Edited by UA1987
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A number of people who post here have been talking for quite some time about the possibility or even the advisability of Akron and similar schools moving 'down' to other compete in other

other athletic divisions. That part of the discussion is not new not even recent. Its been out there for a while. When Akron made the transition to DI in football and basketball I was frankly excited. I however had watched Akron compete VERY successfully in football and basketball at what would now be the DII level. Playoffs,winning seasons and being very competitive was 'normal'. One of the 3 most exciting Akron football games I ever saw was the overtime playoff game at the Rubber Bowl(I miss U) in I believe 1976. Didn't care if it was College Division,DII

or D15. Even though the initial excitement of competing at DI was fine,it has unfortunately become obvious that a number of schools like Akron can not consistently compete at this level either on the field or financially. The best predictor of future behavior is usually past behavior. If and when football resumes try watching some Pennsylvania State Athletic Conference  games on the cable. There are some fantastic rivalries there. IUP, Slippery Rock, Clarion etc.,etc. That happens week after week. And for the most part those schools are in proximity to each other. By the way way back when Akron used to play some of those teams.

We could continue talking about what a nice facility Infocision is. We could also mention that it has become something of an albatross under the circumstances. Athletics at Akron has to shift gears. Can't continue to bleed money.

Akron also has some world class academic programs. Scarce financial resources should go there first.Emphasize what you do best. Those programs attract more finances from out side the University. Athletics should remain,but not in the same form we have seen them for the last 30 or so years.

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Let's talk numbers. What are the football cost savings in dropping down? Coaches salaries, scholarships, maybe less travel (I find it hard to see less travel than the MAC in any level really).. What else am I missing here.. The stadium and the debt service costs ain't going anywhere. Do those cost savings of maybe 2 million make up for losing buy games, TV revenue and the sponsors we'll lose? I just am unsure if dropping down a level is some magic wand.

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23 minutes ago, zippy5 said:

Let's talk numbers. What are the football cost savings in dropping down? Coaches salaries, scholarships, maybe less travel (I find it hard to see less travel than the MAC in any level really).. What else am I missing here.. The stadium and the debt service costs ain't going anywhere. Do those cost savings of maybe 2 million make up for losing buy games, TV revenue and the sponsors we'll lose? I just am unsure if dropping down a level is some magic wand.

I don’t think you quite understand, if they cut several programs like they are discussing we won’t qualify to be a D1 program.  You have to have at least 14 sports to have a D1 program so we would have to drop.

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5 minutes ago, zippy5 said:

I just am unsure if dropping down a level is some magic wand.

It's little more than saying "Make Akron Sports Great Again". We've already tried magical thinking and it doesn't work. Besides, I wouldn't want to be a D2 program in the next few years because they are sure to be on the chopping block. If you think our athletic department is stupid, ......

 

Almost no athletic departments in P5 conferences make a profit. In fact there is around a handful. What we do know is athletic directors have misrepresented financial potential in the past decade or so and taxpayers have been willing to pick up the difference because things have been so good. That may or may not continue. We need to be prepared for what happens if they do not in the context of our changing society and how much taxpayers are willing to pay for athletics if they are willing to pay something. The challenges are far beyond debating how much to charge for a ticket or parking pass.

 

There is something out there for us and schools like us and if it is ALL about money, we'll fail again. It needs to be figured out before others without our interests in mind figure it out for us. 

 

Crawl-Walk-Run

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9 minutes ago, 94zipgrad said:

I don’t think you quite understand, if they cut several programs like they are discussing we won’t qualify to be a D1 program.  You have to have at least 14 sports to have a D1 program so we would have to drop.

According to Hoke's previous comment, we are technically at 20 sports, so can afford to cut up to 6 (of course likely without much flexibility due to Title IX). 

Edited by LZIp
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5 minutes ago, LZIp said:

According to Hoke's previous comment, we are technically at 20 sports, so can afford to cut up to 6 (of course likely without much flexibility due to Title IX). 

There are 7 being discussed, football players are concerned for several reasons & will be scrambling to make arrangements if they do it

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51 minutes ago, zippy5 said:

Let's talk numbers. What are the football cost savings in dropping down? Coaches salaries, scholarships, maybe less travel (I find it hard to see less travel than the MAC in any level really).. What else am I missing here.. The stadium and the debt service costs ain't going anywhere. Do those cost savings of maybe 2 million make up for losing buy games, TV revenue and the sponsors we'll lose? I just am unsure if dropping down a level is some magic wand.

Yep, people are talking about dropping down to D2 or D3, but it's not like those divisions come without costs. Eliminating the football program in its entirety would shave ~7.7 million from the budget. 4.3 million of that 12 million cost is for Infocision so that's not going away. I did the math in a thread a few years back about how much revenue the football program generates. I really don't want to have to do the research again so I'll just use @DannyHoke numbers. I'll even round his 6.85 million in revenue down 6.5 million. That was with Akron playing 1 buy game. If Akron plays 2 buy games, we're back even. If Akron plays 3 buy games, like Kent, we're +1.25 million. That's without even getting into cutting overhead costs related to the program, which we should definitely be doing.

 

Frankly, I quit caring about the football program 2-3 years ago. That being said, if Akron gives the program bare minimum funding and schedules 3 OSU, Bama, Wisconsin type games per year the operating revenue may exceed operating expenses in excess of $2 million, perhaps more depending on how much expenses get cut. The time to cut the football program would have been before Infocision was built. Hindsight is 20/20 though.

 

Quote

Football Expenses are around 12m.

 

Hmmm. 12m - 6.85m = 5.15M of net savings.

 

Edit: If we were to decide to drop down in football, I'd think non-scholarship FCS would make more sense than D2 or D3.

Edited by kreed5120
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40 minutes ago, 94zipgrad said:

I don’t think you quite understand, if they cut several programs like they are discussing we won’t qualify to be a D1 program.  You have to have at least 14 sports to have a D1 program so we would have to drop.

Oh no... the return of games with Bill Murray State and Austin Pee. That's not allright mama, but I guess we have the football coaching staff for it.    

Edited by UA1987
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29 minutes ago, 94zipgrad said:

I don’t think you quite understand, if they cut several programs like they are discussing we won’t qualify to be a D1 program.  You have to have at least 14 sports to have a D1 program so we would have to drop.

You can't be in the MAC without D1A football.  Would the President be dumb enough to move Akron out of the MAC, and into a lower division? 

 

Although I'm sure they'd find a way to let our soccer team stick around.?

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13 minutes ago, UA1987 said:

Oh no... the return of games with Bill Murray State and Austin Pee. That's not alright mama  

...and going 0-12 and seeing cold rainy games in front of a couple dozen fans is sooooo much better.

 

 

 

 

NOT

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I think we all need to realize that we're not exactly a strong cross section of the University of Akron consumer here.  We are strong and informed fans of the athletic program.  That's what brings us here.  The average UA consumer is aware of athletics at the school but little else.  They could care less whether the teams competed in the Big10 or CYO and wouldn't lose a second of sleep over any cuts. 

 

For me, as long as the teams are competitive and the games are entertaining and not unduly expensive, I will show up and support the teams of my alma mater, whether they're playing Concord or Louisville.  I'd also venture a guess that the average UA consumer (not us) could not distinguish between a game between two good high school teams and two MAC teams.

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41 minutes ago, clarkwgriswold said:

For me, as long as the teams are competitive and the games are entertaining and not unduly expensive, I will show up and support the teams of my alma mater, whether they're playing Concord or Louisville.  

If I attended Mount union or Wittenberg, I'd be with you.

 

But if I attended a University which formerly played Louisville's, and then switched me to Concord's, I'm walking away. You can have it.

 

It would physically sicken me to see the Zips play basketball in the Horizon League, or worse (remember, if football's present division status is changed, we're booted out of the MAC). 

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22 minutes ago, Captain Kangaroo said:

If I attended Mount union or Wittenberg, I'd be with you.

 

But if I attended a University which formerly played Louisville's, and then switched me to Concord's, I'm walking away. You can have it.

 

It would physically sicken me to see the Zips play basketball in the Horizon League, or worse (remember, if football's present division status is changed, we're booted out of the MAC). 

Considering this is an athletic message board, I'm stunned that some on here are ok with dropping to D2, leaving the MAC, and crushing the athletic program all because of their distaste for Williams, Arth, the stadium or whatever else. No other program can bring in $4mill by playing 3 road games like the football program can.  There will be big changes but I'm with the Captain.  Flushing our basketball and soccer teams down the toilet by downgrading would be a huge mistake by Miller and the board. All the MAC schools are in same situation.  Hopefully, they are all working together on a solution instead of a suicide pact.  If Akron has too many sports, the cut them and work on that waiver from the NCAA.

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3 minutes ago, footballzip said:

If we leave the MAC, I think  Missouri Valley Conference looks like the best alternative. FCS (1-AA) football. Division 1 in basketball with auto bid to tournament. We have to wait till  the smoke clears and we get back to "normal" to see what happens.

I can't imagine leaving the MAC will happen now.  Make the cuts as needed, get kids back on campus, get things moving again, and re-assess.  Panic decisions are rarely good decisions.

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17 minutes ago, Captain Kangaroo said:

If I attended Mount union or Wittenberg, I'd be with you.

 

But if I attended a University which formerly played Louisville's, and then switched me to Concord's, I'm walking away. You can have it.

 

It would physically sicken me to see the Zips play basketball in the Horizon League, or worse (remember, if football's present division status is changed, we're booted out of the MAC). 

It’s has multiple ramifications, that is why I hate they left us hanging.  They are going to cut programs.  This has nothing to do per say with the football program other than if they cut so many programs they no longer qualify for D1 which affects the whole sports program.  So hopefully they don’t cut 7 programs like being discussed.  There has to 14 programs split equally between boys & girls or 8 girls programs.  So which programs do you cut, ones that have no chance of funding themselves.  Baseball was just reinstated & the field re done by donation.  Track & Field is strong but apparently can’t afford to repair track.  Rifle program is a top program but can they keep it.  I don’t have the answers but just thinking out loud they can only cut 2 of the 8 boys programs or they again wouldn’t qualify so a lot of the cuts have to come on the girls side. What 2 boys sports do you cut?  Baseball, cross country, golf, rifle, track & field?  Basketball, football & soccer you would think are safe.

 

Lets hope it’s not to drastic 

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1 hour ago, UA1987 said:

Check it: small things amuse small minds


Others enjoy annual 50+ point drubbings (with their starters pulled at half time) because it makes them feel like a big time program.

 

Not to mention Ohio U...?

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41 minutes ago, Captain Kangaroo said:

If I attended Mount union or Wittenberg, I'd be with you.

 

But if I attended a University which formerly played Louisville's, and then switched me to Concord's, I'm walking away. You can have it.

 

It would physically sicken me to see the Zips play basketball in the Horizon League, or worse (remember, if football's present division status is changed, we're booted out of the MAC). 

 

Well, we're already playing the Concords, as well as the Louisvilles.

 

I get your point and your passion Captain, but I am still showing up if there's a change.  I enjoyed them just as much in the OVC, OAC, DII and D1-AA as I do now.  I hope to God there's not a change but I will be there to support the teams if there is.  

 

At the end of the day, I think we're all getting ahead of ourselves.  Every other MAC school is going to have to face those issues and will face the same limitations and I think there will be a solutions beyond Akron alone.

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4 minutes ago, clarkwgriswold said:

 

Well, we're already playing the Concords, as well as the Louisvilles.

 

I get your point and your passion Captain, but I am still showing up if there's a change.  I enjoyed them just as much in the OVC, OAC, DII and D1-AA as I do now.  I hope to God there's not a change but I will be there to support the teams if there is.  

 

At the end of the day, I think we're all getting ahead of ourselves.  Every other MAC school is going to have to face those issues and will face the same limitations and I think there will be a solutions beyond Akron alone.

Ive never known this board to overreact or get ahead of itself.  

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11 minutes ago, clarkwgriswold said:

I get your point and your passion Captain, but I am still showing up if there's a change.  I enjoyed them just as much in the OVC, OAC, DII and D1-AA as I do now.  I hope to God there's not a change but I will be there to support the teams if there is.  

None of this maximizes our potential. I would be with CK only I'm basically out of caring about the football program. Our program is a mess right now.  I watch those weeknight games until nausea sinks in, which doesn't take long, and what I see is not even MAC level football. I don't know how any of you go to the games. I really don't.  The only reason I posted was because ideas are being kicked around the University about the future and we tend to not do this very well.

 

Someone posted about the MVC which amounts to rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic.  No thanks. Retreat is not what we need. In military terms, the word "retreat" is not used. Retreat is running from a fight. They now call it "breaking contact". You break contact until you figure a way to move forward with reinforcements or a new strategy. Right now we need to think about how we and those like us can break contact, get our poop together and then make contact with the public (not P5 schools in football).

 

How bored am I?  I'm typing about the Zips while about to go watch a past Belk Bowl with Wake Forest I was at while listening to Yacht Rock Radio. I'm so ashamed. This is pathetic.

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A bigger question might be, with all the students doing distance learning during the pandemic, I’m waiting for someone to ask “why do we need a huge campus”?

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