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Smaller, Leaner athletic program...


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17 hours ago, Spin said:

Cincinnati re-ups Luke Fickell through 2026 for $3.6 mill/year. Remember him?

 

Apparently not all mid-major football is in the sewer at the moment. 

 

The AAC is closer to P5 than G5. It's amazing what you can do if you play good football in clean stadiums with nice tailgating at a time and place convenient for students, alumni and fans to attend. It really isn't hard. 

 

Who would have thought when the pandemic started that the PAC12 and Big 10 would have actively taken a road down turning themselves into the AAC? Out of sight, out of mind. The lifeblood of college football is recruiting.  It will take these two conferences years to recover. 

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9 hours ago, GP1 said:

The AAC is closer to P5 than G5. It's amazing what you can do if you play good football in clean stadiums with nice tailgating at a time and place convenient for students, alumni and fans to attend. It really isn't hard. 

My son attends UC. We went down for the UCF / UC game last fall. Gladly paid $120 for a pair of tickets. So did the other 40k+ fans in attendance. We lucked into a nice tailgate lot that was only $25. Friday night game. Had a blast. Here was the crowd from my vantage point. Not quite InfoCision.?

7c74590a-db92-4034-90f1-c82f6215dc67.jpg

 

He7c2a9c02-0a44-4bec-93e4-12f46c990751.jpgHere is the student section rushing the field after knocking off a Top 25 team. My son is 985th from the right.?

 

At least I'll have a team to root for this fall.??

 

 

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The Mrs. and I were in the same (but dramatically less populated) stadium a few years before you to witness the Zips destroy the Bearcats.

The Cincy fans sitting near us all attributed the result to the fact that Akron had a real coach and they didn't.

This was the same coach that was a world beater as a high school coach when he was one of the few coaches who could recruit, but then couldn't win at ND, and my out-of-state friends raged on me when we hired a proven loser.

It's interesting/depressing to see the trajectory of both teams since that day.

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42 minutes ago, Zipmeister said:

The Mrs. and I were in the same (but dramatically less populated) stadium a few years before you to witness the Zips destroy the Bearcats.

The Cincy fans sitting near us all attributed the result to the fact that Akron had a real coach and they didn't.

This was the same coach that was a world beater as a high school coach when he was one of the few coaches who could recruit, but then couldn't win at ND, and my out-of-state friends raged on me when we hired a proven loser.

It's interesting/depressing to see the trajectory of both teams since that day.

Few years?

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While Rick Minter was the head coach at UC I was covering Cincinnati for my company. Despite his pedigree as a former Notre Dame DC he proved to be a horrible coach. I went to many practices, scrimmages and games. I got to know some parents of the players and they were in despair over the future of the program. Attendance was poor and there was no positivity around the team. Finally the AD & president fired Minter and got a real coach in Mark Dantonio. Before the hiring of Dantonio an argument could be made that we were not far behind UC in quality and status. A lot has changed since. Since coaching is the biggest single factor in creating a successful program I can only hope that Arth is the guy to turn around our program.  

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1 hour ago, Captain Kangaroo said:

At least I'll have a team to root for this fall.??

 

 

Glad to see Fickell find a home at UC. I like their program and their band too. I was at the 2008 UC UA game at the Rubber Bowl  which was a battle as you know I'm sure (UC won 17 to 15 - Zips led at halftime) and I remember their band marching down from the top parking lot before the game to the stadium opening with drums rattling, brass swaying, and their entire band chanting their cheer - OHHHH OHHHH OHHHH UC! repeat. Their cheerleaders kept the cheer up all game bending into the shape of the letters UC (I sat on the visitors side from time to time for color) - loved it! Their coach sweating bullets that day was Brian Kelly.           

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1 hour ago, UA1987 said:

Glad to see Fickell find a home at UC. I like their program and their band too. I was at the 2008 UC UA game at the Rubber Bowl  which was a battle as you know I'm sure (UC won 17 to 15 - Zips led at halftime) and I remember their band marching down from the top parking lot before the game to the stadium opening with drums rattling, brass swaying, and their entire band chanting their cheer - OHHHH OHHHH OHHHH UC! repeat. Their cheerleaders kept the cheer up all game bending into the shape of the letters UC (I sat on the visitors side from time to time for color) - loved it! Their coach sweating bullets that day was Brian Kelly.           

 

Bendy cheerleaders!  Gotcha!  ?

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2 hours ago, Captain Kangaroo said:

My son attends UC. 

Just what the world needs, another engineer.....

 

Seriously though.  How much different would your experience had been if they lost?  My guess is a twinge of disappointment on the walk to the car followed by the joy of another beer in the parking lot. My trips to Wake Forest games have taught me a lesson, and that lesson is I'm relatively easy to please as are most people. All I need is a clean parking lot, clean stadium, clean bathrooms, clean port a johns, some decent food/beer in the stadium, convenient time and day, and good football (doesn't even have to be great). Watching the MAC implode over the past decade has been astonishing.  Depending on how you define "good football", Cincinnati isn't doing anything Akron couldn't do. The MAC is entertaining enough for most people as most people in NE Ohio are entertained by high school football so the MAC would be better.  Give the students, fans, alumni and community members something decent and they will go because people are easy to please. This really isn't that hard.

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4 hours ago, GP1 said:

Just what the world needs, another engineer.....

 

Seriously though.  How much different would your experience had been if they lost?  My guess is a twinge of disappointment on the walk to the car followed by the joy of another beer in the parking lot. My trips to Wake Forest games have taught me a lesson, and that lesson is I'm relatively easy to please as are most people. All I need is a clean parking lot, clean stadium, clean bathrooms, clean port a johns, some decent food/beer in the stadium, convenient time and day, and good football (doesn't even have to be great). Watching the MAC implode over the past decade has been astonishing.  Depending on how you define "good football", Cincinnati isn't doing anything Akron couldn't do. The MAC is entertaining enough for most people as most people in NE Ohio are entertained by high school football so the MAC would be better.  Give the students, fans, alumni and community members something decent and they will go because people are easy to please. This really isn't that hard.

GP has hit on the single best way to improve football attendance in my opinion. That is to play good football. We haven't seen that is years here. Two years stick out to me in which you could say we got a glimpse of good football. Those were Bowden's first year, because he was such an improvement over iCoach and the year we went to the Idaho Potato Bowl. When it comes to football NE Ohio fans are fairly sophisticated. They know the game and know good from bad. We have not met their expectation to play a good game. Do that and we will see an influx of fans larger than any marketing campaign could produce.

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11 hours ago, 72 Roo said:

GP has hit on the single best way to improve football attendance in my opinion. That is to play good football. We haven't seen that is years here.

Of all the things I listed, good football is the most difficult part. Clean parking lots, etc. are pretty easy to accomplish if schools just enter into the right contracts with vendors. With that said, it wasn't that long ago we were a decent team. It isn't hard to win 6-7 games as a MAC team. Clawson proved at Wake Forest how easy it is in the ACC. If he goes to a bowl game, there is a contract extension for him on the horizon. We just need to get back to decent. The utter crap cannot go on. If the team was just decent and all of the easy stuff was accomplished, things would work out.

 

I hate to say it, but once the team gets back to decent and they are doing the easy stuff, going back to the days of giving away general admission tickets might be the way to go to get people to games to see how nice it can be.  An empty seat doesn't buy a hot dog or a beer or pay for parking or buy a t-shirt. It also doesn't become part of a growing fan base. Conceding the financial loss to a degree of college athletics while still having it can be freeing for many universities. 

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Back in ancient times they never had a problem 'filling the Bowl' with the Acme Zip game. 2 for 1 tix at Acme stores if I am not mistaken. And that was at the Bowl(RIP). There must be a local business that might be willing to enter in to a sponsorship of some sort for one game to get people into the seats. Those games were a helluva lot of fun. And that was when they were DII. And more often than not they won. Take a shot at it. And yes,the performance on the field must be consistently better season after season. Not just once every 4-5 seasons. Easily said. Not easily done.

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1 hour ago, clarkwgriswold said:

They also need to realize that a youth team taking up seats at $5 a pop is better than an empty seat.

Regardless, they are losing money hand over fist. 1,000 seats at $5 each is a drop in the bucket. Give the tickets away to youth football teams that want them. The kids will load up on enough junk food to pay for themselves.  Give steep food discounts for inter city teams that may not have much money to spend on food. Don't openly promote it though, just do it.

 

Our biggest problem is we and our partners in the MAC have successfully destroyed our fan bases with the ESPN nonsense because the athletic directors/universities prioritize money over everything else. The destruction is complete. Time to build a fan base again. It's more expensive to acquire/reacquire customers than retaining them. It shouldn't matter at this point if they hand out 60,000 free GA tickets in the hopes that 10,000 show up.

 

Remember, don't over think it.... What should be openly promoted at this point? Clean parking lots, clean bathrooms, clean temporary restrooms, clean seats, decent food/beer, good football at a time when people can attend. It is not very difficult.

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1 hour ago, GP1 said:

Regardless, they are losing money hand over fist. 1,000 seats at $5 each is a drop in the bucket. Give the tickets away to youth football teams that want them. The kids will load up on enough junk food to pay for themselves.  Give steep food discounts for inter city teams that may not have much money to spend on food. Don't openly promote it though, just do it.

 

Our biggest problem is we and our partners in the MAC have successfully destroyed our fan bases with the ESPN nonsense because the athletic directors/universities prioritize money over everything else. The destruction is complete. Time to build a fan base again. It's more expensive to acquire/reacquire customers than retaining them. It shouldn't matter at this point if they hand out 60,000 free GA tickets in the hopes that 10,000 show up.

 

Remember, don't over think it.... What should be openly promoted at this point? Clean parking lots, clean bathrooms, clean temporary restrooms, clean seats, decent food/beer, good football at a time when people can attend. It is not very difficult.

 

So a Tuesday night game in the dead of winter on ESPN12 doesn't help attendance?

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I'm sorry, but Akron has had a consistent championship caliber B-ball team over the past 15 years and still averages no more than 3,500 fans per game.  There isn't a large local fan base that is or will ever be interested in mid-major sports.  Just a fact.  Throwing money at the problem (InfoCison Stadium) is not going to change that.  It's time to be happy in our own skin.

 

 

 

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43 minutes ago, jupitertoo said:

I'm sorry, but Akron has had a consistent championship caliber B-ball team over the past 15 years and still averages no more than 3,500 fans per game.  There isn't a large local fan base that is or will ever be interested in mid-major sports.  Just a fact.  Throwing money at the problem (InfoCison Stadium) is not going to change that.  It's time to be happy in our own skin.

 

 

 

 

I get that, but the JAR has been much more crowded in the good years than the bad.   I've been there the last 15 years and when Dambrot's teams were at their peak, the place was much more full than the first two years of struggle under Groce.  Last year, those crowds started coming back with the success of the team.  

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Even in great years, I'm guessing average attendance was in the 3,700 neighborhood.  It's not a function of the team or program - it's the local sports culture and the embedded role and personality of the university within the community.  UofA has been trying to be "something else" since it became a state supported urban university in the 1960s.  It's time to take pride in what it is and build on those strengths. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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7 hours ago, Lee Adams said:

Back in ancient times they never had a problem 'filling the Bowl' with the Acme Zip game. 2 for 1 tix at Acme stores if I am not mistaken. And that was at the Bowl(RIP). There must be a local business that might be willing to enter in to a sponsorship of some sort for one game to get people into the seats. Those games were a helluva lot of fun. And that was when they were DII. And more often than not they won. Take a shot at it. And yes,the performance on the field must be consistently better season after season. Not just once every 4-5 seasons. Easily said. Not easily done.

 

Now I'm bummed. You  got two tickets for the price of one!!!! I had to pay $1 for every ticket. I wonder if it's too late to sue somebody.

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3 hours ago, clarkwgriswold said:

 

I get that, but the JAR has been much more crowded in the good years than the bad.   I've been there the last 15 years and when Dambrot's teams were at their peak, the place was much more full than the first two years of struggle under Groce.  Last year, those crowds started coming back with the success of the team.  

"Spottsville missed them both."

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9 hours ago, jupitertoo said:

I'm sorry, but Akron has had a consistent championship caliber B-ball team over the past 15 years and still averages no more than 3,500 fans per game.  There isn't a large local fan base that is or will ever be interested in mid-major sports.  Just a fact.  Throwing money at the problem (InfoCison Stadium) is not going to change that.  It's time to be happy in our own skin.

 

 

 

 

I still say you have to have good marketing. 

 

What made the ACME/Zip games so special? ACME marketed the crap out of it. Akron could have put an ad for half price tickets to the Austin Peay game on page 12 of the sports page, and drew flies. ACME knew marketing.

 

The Cleveland Force was the most successful franchise in the MISL, never won a championship. Never smelled a championship. How were they so successful? They were owned by a marketing executive. All the other teams were going out of business or moving around every other season. The Force was there to the end with big crowds. They were drawing 18 19, 20,000 fans to the Coliseum while the Cavs were drawing 3,000 some nights. Unless of course Dr. J or Larry Bird was in town. Two marketable superstars.

 

 

 

 

MACtion.png

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21 hours ago, jupitertoo said:

I'm sorry, but Akron has had a consistent championship caliber B-ball team over the past 15 years and still averages no more than 3,500 fans per game.  There isn't a large local fan base that is or will ever be interested in mid-major sports. 

As crappy as the BB arena is, it's amazing 3,500 went to games. Look at my plan for success. The BB experience fails on multiple levels. Bad stadium, bad food, feh parking, half of college BB games take place on weeknights in the dead of winter, beer?, etc.

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On 8/28/2020 at 11:55 PM, Spin said:

 

I still say you have to have good marketing. 

 

What made the ACME/Zip games so special? ACME marketed the crap out of it. Akron could have put an ad for half price tickets to the Austin Peay game on page 12 of the sports page, and drew flies. ACME knew marketing.

 

The Cleveland Force was the most successful franchise in the MISL, never won a championship. Never smelled a championship. How were they so successful? They were owned by a marketing executive. All the other teams were going out of business or moving around every other season. The Force was there to the end with big crowds. They were drawing 18 19, 20,000 fans to the Coliseum while the Cavs were drawing 3,000 some nights. Unless of course Dr. J or Larry Bird was in town. Two marketable superstars.

 

 

 

 

MACtion.png

 

 

And yet the Force never made a profit.  Papering the house with free tix is not a long-term marketing strategy.  Bart Wolstein bitched about the losses for years.  I have a friend who worked at a high level in the organization - their ultimate plan for profitability was through their Force soccer/fitness centers, and that didn't pan out. Wolstein pulled the plug at the height of their popularity because the losses were rising.

 

 

 

 

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I think his ultimate goal was to own a top level real soccer team. But there was none in the US until 8 years later. And even then Columbus ponied up for the Crew stadium while Cleveland was busy replacing the Coliseum and Muni Stadium and building a ball park. Then the local economy tanked.

 

I still think MLS would work in Cleveland, (Force alum) Mike Sweeney had a popular third division club but couldn’t find a suitable stadium with natural grass. 

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