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Smaller, Leaner athletic program...


zip81

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5 hours ago, kreed5120 said:

There are 350+ D1 schools. There are much smaller schools with much smaller enrollments and endowments than MAC schools in D1. If MAC schools are saying they can't keep up with the NCAA D1 requirements, conferences like the MEAC, Southland, Northeastern etc. are probably even facing worse problems. The NCAA isn't going to let 100 or so schools drop from D1. I expect to see system wide changes.

Based on what definitive knowledge? And those changes are...?

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7 hours ago, clarkwgriswold said:

I think we all need to realize that we're not exactly a strong cross section of the University of Akron consumer here.  We are strong and informed fans of the athletic program.  That's what brings us here.  The average UA consumer is aware of athletics at the school but little else.  They could care less whether the teams competed in the Big10 or CYO and wouldn't lose a second of sleep over any cuts. 

 

For me, as long as the teams are competitive and the games are entertaining and not unduly expensive, I will show up and support the teams of my alma mater, whether they're playing Concord or Louisville.  I'd also venture a guess that the average UA consumer (not us) could not distinguish between a game between two good high school teams and two MAC teams.

There is at least part of the problem.Football has not GENERALLY been competitive.  A number of folks on this site seem to think there is a 'silent majority' of Akron football fans out here in the community. Never has happened, not likely it ever will. So lets please stop imagining that there is going to be a groundswell of general public support that frankly has never been there for as long as I have been attending games. That goes back to the 1960's. Most folks here were not a gleem...you know the rest. Focus on what the University does best academically....please!

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6 hours ago, NWAkron said:

Considering this is an athletic message board, I'm stunned that some on here are ok with dropping to D2, leaving the MAC, and crushing the athletic program all because of their distaste for Williams, Arth, the stadium or whatever else. No other program can bring in $4mill by playing 3 road games like the football program can.  There will be big changes but I'm with the Captain.  Flushing our basketball and soccer teams down the toilet by downgrading would be a huge mistake by Miller and the board. All the MAC schools are in same situation.  Hopefully, they are all working together on a solution instead of a suicide pact.  If Akron has too many sports, the cut them and work on that waiver from the NCAA.

Who said it was a 'distaste for the AD or present coach.?

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If the P5 schools dump the NCAA, which they should and the idea is being openly discussed in the mainstream sports media, it won't matter if there are 600 divisions. There will no longer be an NCAA. The NCAA is almost entirely funded by March Madness and when that dries up, so will the NCAA.

 

What if the P5 conferences start their own league/conference/division, whatever you want to call it?  I think it would be nice to have a separate league with the other G5 conferences that could enter into various contractual agreement with these schools to compete against one another on terms that are best for G5 schools.

 

I know this is hard for people to believe, but years ago colleges played each other in sports and there was no NCAA. Additionally, it wasn't until 1973 that the NCAA started divisions. That's in my lifetime. The NCAA was founded in 1906. There were more years of no divisions than with divisions. The point is, without the NCAA and their divisions, schools will find a way to contract games against one another and college football can thrive in that environment. That is just a fact. College football was waaaay more popular than the NFL until the mid 50s before divisions. Wouldn't it be nice if we could find a smart way to align ourselves with a group of like in kind schools and maximize our potential in this environment?

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52 minutes ago, GP1 said:

If the P5 schools dump the NCAA, which they should and the idea is being openly discussed in the mainstream sports media, it won't matter if there are 600 divisions. There will no longer be an NCAA. The NCAA is almost entirely funded by March Madness and when that dries up, so will the NCAA.

 

What if the P5 conferences start their own league/conference/division, whatever you want to call it?  I think it would be nice to have a separate league with the other G5 conferences that could enter into various contractual agreement with these schools to compete against one another on terms that are best for G5 schools.

 

I know this is hard for people to believe, but years ago colleges played each other in sports and there was no NCAA. Additionally, it wasn't until 1973 that the NCAA started divisions. That's in my lifetime. The NCAA was founded in 1906. There were more years of no divisions than with divisions. The point is, without the NCAA and their divisions, schools will find a way to contract games against one another and college football can thrive in that environment. That is just a fact. College football was waaaay more popular than the NFL until the mid 50s before divisions. Wouldn't it be nice if we could find a smart way to align ourselves with a group of like in kind schools and maximize our potential in this environment?

Serious but not serious. Break off from the NCAA with them and call ourselves the D2 of the new league below the P5 and have promotion/relegation. Not that they'd go for it. But hey

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19 minutes ago, GP1 said:

I don't care if he approves or not either. I would be interested in him answering a simple question because I think it would shine a light on ideas for us competing well with what we have to offer.

 

How did you take a small, midwest company and make it one of the best and well known small to mid size manufacturers in the country?

 

He's our My Pillow guy.

 

Mr. Pillow Guy... good one!  Not sure it's a relevant comparison as College Athletics and its quagmire of NCAA mandates (minimum # of sports), Federal Government (Title IX), and Current Peer Group (MAC) all have to work in unison for ANYTHING to get done.  It's not as simple (irony) as regular business, which is why it's normally not run by true Business people. Most true biz pros will lose their mind by the nonsensical nature of what college sports "business" has become.

 

 

 

 

 

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4 hours ago, GP1 said:

I know this is hard for people to believe, but years ago colleges played each other in sports and there was no NCAA. Additionally, it wasn't until 1973 that the NCAA started divisions. That's in my lifetime. The NCAA was founded in 1906. There were more years of no divisions than with divisions. The point is, without the NCAA and their divisions, schools will find a way to contract games against one another and college football can thrive in that environment. That is just a fact. College football was waaaay more popular than the NFL until the mid 50s before divisions. Wouldn't it be nice if we could find a smart way to align ourselves with a group of like in kind schools and maximize our potential in this environment?

 

Off the major topic being discussed here, but a pet peeve of mine.........

This isn't the first time I've read that the NCAA started divisions in 1973. You might want it to be this way, but it isn't.

A little research will show d1 men's soccer going back to 1959 and  D2 men's swimming going back to 1964, just to provide a couple of examples.

Maybe the NCAA revised or formalized divisions in 1973, but they sure didn't start them then.

Edited by Zipmeister
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15 hours ago, NWAkron said:

Football can schedule Clemson, Purdue, and Kentucky and bring in $4.5 million.  And I mean this...I'm glad I'm not the one making these decisions.

 

14 hours ago, Blue & Gold said:

Bring on Purdue & Kentucky.  Clemson, on the other hand...

 

14 hours ago, Captain Kangaroo said:

Or Northwestern, Pitt, Navy, NC State, etc.

My gut tells me those big paydays might be a thing of the past. Even the P5 schools will feel the effects of budget cuts.

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7 hours ago, Zipmeister said:

This isn't the first time I've read that the NCAA started divisions in 1973. You might want it to be this way, but it isn't.

http://www.ncaa.org/about/who-we-are/membership/divisional-differences-and-history-multidivision-classification

 

No, it's really the other way.

 

Whatever took place before that was something schools did on their own, which shows how schools can get together without the NCAA and organize themselves.

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12 minutes ago, GP1 said:

http://www.ncaa.org/about/who-we-are/membership/divisional-differences-and-history-multidivision-classification

 

No, it's really the other way.

 

Whatever took place before that was something schools did on their own, which shows how schools can get together without the NCAA and organize themselves.

I really like the idea of the Power 5 going off on their own for football.  However, I can't forsee any huge institutional changes occurring over the next 3.5 months.

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10 hours ago, DannyHoke said:

 

Mr. Pillow Guy... good one! 

Thanks.  I mean it in a good way. The My Pillow guy is a huge success story.

 

The Title IX issue can be worked around with some challenges mostly having to do with politics. All we would have to do is be government compliant. There are over 60 G5 schools with most being state schools which would give us some legislative political support as well so we have some strength. We could put together a Title IX compliance plan and take it to the government, get their input, negotiate a resolution and proceed with the agreement. Part of the committee I propose could have a sub committee to deal with this issue and we could have a lawyer who specializes in civil rights head it up.

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4 minutes ago, NWAkron said:

I really like the idea of the Power 5 going off on their own for football.  However, I can't forsee any huge institutional changes occurring over the next 3.5 months.

Agree, but we had better be read when it happens.

 

I would also like a committee to explore what G5 schools do if it does NOT happen.

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3 minutes ago, GP1 said:

Agree, but we had better be read when it happens.

 

I would also like a committee to explore what G5 schools do if it does NOT happen.

I would love for all the MAC schools to get on the same page and come up with a plan for the future which would avoid these Tuesday and Wednesday night games.  A buddy at work whose son plays football for a MAC school said his son is in the dark about next year but there was some talk about football and basketball overlapping a lot more at least for 2020.  

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My pillow guy - knowingly did not remit sales tax collected from customers and setttled out of court for knowingly making false claims on late night TV about the benefits of the My Pillow products (cures multiple sclerocis, sleep apnea, fibromyalgia, and insomnia - source 'Consumer Reports'). Not the kind of person we need leading anything.    

Edited by UA1987
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8 minutes ago, UA1987 said:

My pillow guy - knowingly did not remit sales tax collected from customers and setttled out of court for knowingly making false claims on late night TV about the benefits of the My Pillow products (cures multiple sclerocis, sleep apnea, fibromyalgia, and insomnia - source 'Consumer Reports'). Not the kind of person we need leading anything.    

throwing business guys or gals into a athletic or university bureaucracy without any experience can easily turn into a disaster.  I highly doubt Miller would go that way IF he wanted to make a change at the AD position.

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40 minutes ago, Hilltopper said:

My gut tells me those big paydays might be a thing of the past. Even the P5 schools will feel the effects of budget cuts.

Your gut is increasingly looking to be correct. These games are not selling out.  If nobody would buy a ticket to one, why would they watch it on TV? Speaking for myself, I have little interest in college football in September because the games are so lopsided. If I don't have tickets to Wake Forest, I go to the beach in September and October as they are the best months to go.  OSU and Notre Dame are not selling out these games so TV becomes even more important as a revenue stream and if you can sell out, even better. The real money is in television, not ticket sales.

 

By going on their own, they can play each other, sell out stadiums and charge more for TV as the potential TV draw is better. They win no matter what.

 

That's their game though. How do we win with what we have is what I am interested in examining.  Is it with them?  Is it without them? Is there a combination where a separation takes place with contractual agreements to come together at certain points? Do we need the dead weigh of IAA, D2 and D3? I don't know these answers. If we don't look at this now, we are doing ourselves a disservice.  

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17 minutes ago, NWAkron said:

I would love for all the MAC schools to get on the same page and come up with a plan for the future which would avoid these Tuesday and Wednesday night games.  A buddy at work whose son plays football for a MAC school said his son is in the dark about next year but there was some talk about football and basketball overlapping a lot more at least for 2020.  

My brother has two very close friends at schools you would know and one of the guys is a well known coach so I won't say where or who they are. Both at different schools, different conferences. Neither believes there will be a college football season next year and if there is there will be no non-conference games with a shortened season. Physical conditioning requires football to be a year around sport. One month of weight lifting followed by one month of practice is simply not going to be enough.

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Anyone holding their breath on substantial Title IX reformation will be dead quickly.

 

Nice thoughts GP1, but the reality of what you outline is a long runway, not something that happens in the blink of an eye.

 

Per your quote, "...you want it to be one way. But it's the other way."

 

 

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5 minutes ago, GP1 said:

My brother has two very close friends at schools you would know and one of the guys is a well known coach so I won't say where or who they are. Both at different schools, different conferences. Neither believes there will be a college football season next year and if there is there will be no non-conference games with a shortened season. Physical conditioning requires football to be a year around sport. One month of weight lifting followed by one month of practice is simply not going to be enough.

 

Akron has not had a football season for two years regardless. The losing streak lives on... #Arthed

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