Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
DannyHoke

Back when cutting sports seemed like the abyss...

Recommended Posts

They were trending towards being a decent MAC team at that point. Rembielak was finally getting some traction with decent recruits in the area. I didn't say they were historically good, but competitive in the conference at 13-15

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Lee Adams said:

If I read correctly the statement was made by either Miller or Williams was that scholarship amounts going to student athletes in football would have to be reduced. Not sure if he/they were including all other remaining sports or not. I read that to mean that the amount going to individual participants would be reduced. Anybody have any further info.?

I would expect any football reduction not to be in terms of scholarship numbers, but the cost of attendance $... but thats my guess

  • Confused 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The loss of men's golf, men's cross-country, and women's golf is about as good as the UA community could have expected. Though I feel for the individuals who are affected, historically bad decision making led us to a course that was already unsustainable. I wonder though, why not cut both men and women's cross-country OR men's and women's golf rather than one gender from each sport? And how in the world do those 3 programs cost $4.4 million per year?!

 

In general, I feel that Dr. Miller's messaging has been favorable, especially relative to what we've been used to through recent history. Let's hope he chooses to not renew Williams' contract next year and that the academic changes will be equally as reasonable. I wrote to him to advocate for some specifics related to the latter.

Edited by UAZipster0305
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, UAZipster0305 said:

The loss of men's golf, men's cross-country, and women's golf is about as good as the UA community could have expected. Though I feel for the individuals who are affected, historically bad decision making led us to a course that was already unsustainable. I wonder though, why not cut both men and women's cross-country OR men's and women's golf rather than one gender from each sport? And how in the world do those 3 programs cost $4.4 million per year?!

 

In general, I feel that Dr. Miller's messaging has been favorable, especially relative to what we've been used to through recent history. Let's hope he chooses to not renew Williams' contract next year. Hopefully the academic changes will be equally as reasonable. I wrote to him to advocate for some specifics related to the latter.

 

I suspect that the odd distribution of cuts was brought to you by Title IX.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, clarkwgriswold said:

 

I suspect that the odd distribution of cuts was brought to you by Title IX.

Golf and cross-country have roughly the same number per sport, per gender though.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 hours ago, Zip Watcher said:

 

Shouldn't UA be asking more fundamental and existential questions of it's Athletic Department now?  What is the real objective of the department?  What are the real goals? And what sports should be sponsored to help reach those objectives?  A pissing match between fans who see UA as a football school vs. hoops school or vise versa isn't productive.  

 


First, glad you’re back ZW.

 

You just asked the most important question.

 

Reading the drivel from so many fans, it seems the only important thing a college program can do is win games. If you can’t win enough games, cut the program. Now. There wouldn’t be any sports left...

 

Others think it’s about drawing fans. If you can’t draw “enough” football fans (even though it sells as many tickets as the rest combined), cut the program. How many is enough? Is paying many of its own expenses not enough? Gotta cut the program!! 
 

Funny I thought all these years school sports at all levels built student confidence, teamwork, leadership, setting personal goals and accomplishing them, being a part of something. Putting it on your resume. 
 

Maybe, going on to. Hall of Fame career in the pros.
 

Not to entertain some ungrateful alumni who will try to cut your program if you have a losing record.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, UAZipster0305 said:

The loss of men's golf, men's cross-country, and women's golf is about as good as the UA community could have expected. Though I feel for the individuals who are affected, historically bad decision making led us to a course that was already unsustainable. I wonder though, why not cut both men and women's cross-country OR men's and women's golf rather than one gender from each sport? And how in the world do those 3 programs cost $4.4 million per year?!

 

In general, I feel that Dr. Miller's messaging has been favorable, especially relative to what we've been used to through recent history. Let's hope he chooses to not renew Williams' contract next year and that the academic changes will be equally as reasonable. I wrote to him to advocate for some specifics related to the latter.

I don't think anyone ever claimed those three added up to all of the 4.4 mil. The release also said there were coaching pay cuts as well as scholarship reductions and other expense reductions

Edited by zippy5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, Spin said:

Funny I thought all these years school sports at all levels built student confidence, teamwork, leadership, setting personal goals and accomplishing them, being a part of something. Putting it on your resume. 
 

 

I support all of these things. The problem is, it costs the average student who doesn't participate $1500 / year, and they get little to no personal benefit.

 

These are values of sports in general that anyone who participated at the high school level should already have.

 

If our athletes were not on scholarship and coaches weren't making six figures, I'd feel differently. The objection I have is that academics and research are sacrificed for athletics that benefit <1% of the student population. Something had to give.

Edited by UAZipster0305

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, zippy5 said:

I don't think anyone ever claimed those three added up to all of the 4.4 mil. The release also said there were coaching pay cuts as well as scholarship reductions and other expense reductions

Thank you. Not sure that was clear in the press release.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, UAZipster0305 said:

Thank you. Not sure that was clear in the press release.

Yeah, just fyi so it's here

 

Quote

The elimination of these sports, along with salary reductions for select coaches, staff position eliminations, scholarship and operating reductions will total approximately $4.4 million.

https://gozips.com/news/2020/5/14/general-campus-message-from-ad-larry-williams.aspx

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've seen a couple of the graphics guys I follow on twitter say they're moving onto other things. The guys that make the templates recruits tweet out on committing or visits and obviously more than that but.. I'm assuming support positions like that and who knows what else are casualties of this. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, UAZipster0305 said:

 

I support all of these things. The problem is, it costs the average student who doesn't participate $1500 / year, and they get little to no personal benefit.

 

These are values of sports in general that anyone who participated at the high school level should already have.

 

If our athletes were not on scholarship and coaches weren't making six figures, I'd feel differently. The objection I have is that academics and research are sacrificed for athletics that benefit <1% of the student population. Something had to give.

 

I saw that athletics deficit figure equated to ~1350 per student, but I don't believe that's how much students are being charged for it. A full time student pays $1.132.32 per semester or $2264.64/yr in student fees. Built into that figure is x-number of dollars for transportation, student union, rec, and a variety of all kinds of other things. When I was in college the transportation fee alone was $350, but I'm sure that has went up. I'm not exactly sure the number allocated to athletics, but I highly doubt it's $1350 considering all the other amenities on campus that needs its cut. The university covers the shortfall from its reserves/general budget. Not saying that makes it much better, but not 100% of that shortfall is hitting the students. Some of it is passed along to the taxpayers.

 

https://www.uakron.edu/student-accounts/estimator

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Not that it equates to a lot, but the UA students as a whole could get a little more of their money's worth by taking the opportunity to go to the damn games for free.  Back in the dark ages the excuse was that it was a commuter school and students weren't on campus to go to the games.  That's not the case any more.  Those kids are living in or around campus and there can't be that much else to do.

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, clarkwgriswold said:

Not that it equates to a lot, but the UA students as a whole could get a little more of their money's worth by taking the opportunity to go to the damn games for free.  Back in the dark ages the excuse was that it was a commuter school and students weren't on campus to go to the games.  That's not the case any more.  Those kids are living in or around campus and there can't be that much else to do.

 

I went to college during the Ianello days so I use to pregame for the games then leave near halftime when I sobered up and realized we were down 4 TDs. The football team hasn't improved much, but at least they serve beer in the stadium now. If I was a student now I may have actually been able to make it through all 4 quarters.

  • Like 1
  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just saw on the news that Walsh is going to offer free first semester room for incoming freshmen and transfer students. I think we'd be smart to offer that..maybe to a lesser extent, like transfers only. I imagine there is quite a bit of occupancy in the dorms considering they were built for a 30k college. Heck I'd even do it up until dorms are at full occupancy again (if ever). Any minimal additional costs like electricity would be more than offset by at least a few years of tuition.

 

Getting enrollment up is priority #1. Let's get a little creative.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
59 minutes ago, UAZipster0305 said:

 

I support all of these things. The problem is, it costs the average student who doesn't participate $1500 / year, and they get little to no personal benefit.

 

These are values of sports in general that anyone who participated at the high school level should already have.

 

If our athletes were not on scholarship and coaches weren't making six figures, I'd feel differently. The objection I have is that academics and research are sacrificed for athletics that benefit <1% of the student population. Something had to give.


A drop in the bucket.

 

When I was done with prerequisites and switched to main campus, I was paying for busses, the bowling alley, the pool hall, the theater, the workout facility, the rock climbing wall, the indoor pool, who knows how much other stuff I paid for that I never used. And then, because I didn’t live on campus and didn’t use the busses I paid for, I paid to park. 
 

I know all about student fees.I incurred twice as much debt on the main campus than I did at Wayne.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
29 minutes ago, LZIp said:

Just saw on the news that Walsh is going to offer free first semester room for incoming freshmen and transfer students. I think we'd be smart to offer that..maybe to a lesser extent, like transfers only. I imagine there is quite a bit of occupancy in the dorms considering they were built for a 30k college. Heck I'd even do it up until dorms are at full occupancy again (if ever). Any minimal additional costs like electricity would be more than offset by at least a few years of tuition.

 

Getting enrollment up is priority #1. Let's get a little creative.


Quaker Square has zero occupancy now.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, LZIp said:

Just saw on the news that Walsh is going to offer free first semester room for incoming freshmen and transfer students. I think we'd be smart to offer that..maybe to a lesser extent, like transfers only. I imagine there is quite a bit of occupancy in the dorms considering they were built for a 30k college. Heck I'd even do it up until dorms are at full occupancy again (if ever). Any minimal additional costs like electricity would be more than offset by at least a few years of tuition.

 

Getting enrollment up is priority #1. Let's get a little creative.

 

You are correct that a little creativity could go a long way.  Walsh's plan is probably easier for a small private college as opposed to a larger publicly funded school.

 

When my son was looking at schools a decade or so ago, George Washington guaranteed that your tuition would not go up in your 4 years.  I think some other schools have followed suit.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, kreed5120 said:

 

I went to college during the Ianello days so I use to pregame for the games then leave near halftime when I sobered up and realized we were down 4 TDs. The football team hasn't improved much, but at least they serve beer in the stadium now. If I was a student now I may have actually been able to make it through all 4 quarters.

 

I was in school during prohibition so we didn't have that option.

  • Haha 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Spin said:


A drop in the bucket.

 

When I was done with prerequisites and switched to main campus, I was paying for busses, the bowling alley, the pool hall, the theater, the workout facility, the rock climbing wall, the indoor pool, who knows how much other stuff I paid for that I never used. And then, because I didn’t live on campus and didn’t use the busses I paid for, I paid to park. 
 

I know all about student fees.I incurred twice as much debt on the main campus than I did at Wayne.

 

It's too late for you, but current students should be aware that one can miss some really interesting stuff by avoiding all the services and venues that you did. For example, I remember the day a heavy set young lady accidently launched herself down one of the bowling lanes in the student union basement. The force of her landing sprung one of the hardwood boards up just enough to spear her lower leg before returning  to its rightful place among the other boards; pinning her to the ally. It took the firemen what to her must have seemed like a,really long time to cut her free (they cut the boards, not her leg). The pool hall, swimming pool, and rock climbing wall also offer the possibility of observing someone doing something really dumb.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, UA1987 said:

I took it that Arth is currently fielding a team with under 85 scholarships. I would expect the football team will be able to fill the 85 scholarship limit in the future.     

That is not really the issue. If those 85 schollys are INDIVIDUALLY going to be worth less than currently what are the ramifications? Big difference.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, morris buttermaker said:

I would expect any football reduction not to be in terms of scholarship numbers, but the cost of attendance $... but thats my guess

Again, didn't say numbers, but a possible reduction in the value of EACH of those 85 schollys. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 minutes ago, Lee Adams said:

Again, didn't say numbers, but a possible reduction in the value of EACH of those 85 schollys. 

I'd rather have 75 players given full value scholarships than 85 players at 90%, which we operated at and will be operating at this year unfortunately.

 

Why would anyone come here if they could get a full ride somewhere else?

Edited by LZIp

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...