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MontrealExposloveZippy

Week 1, Western Michigan

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6 hours ago, zipsoutsider said:

This is year 2....I would hope we don't wait until year 4 for results. Also, there is zero reason for optimism. 

 

Larry Williams' ego has already cost the program, dearly.

 

Well, there you go. Someone choosing to ignore the number of accomplishments in terms of wins as a D 1 program, bowl game appearances, and MaC championship appearances.

 

Arth appears to be exactly what I thought he would be: a nothingburger.

 

I was wondering who Arthur was.

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Meanwhile the Dynasty continues in UA's back yard 

Ill continue being the Idiot on here capping for UA to hire THAT COACH 

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8 hours ago, dre22era said:

Meanwhile the Dynasty continues in UA's back yard 

Ill continue being the Idiot on here capping for UA to hire THAT COACH 

Tim Tyrell's a great one, no doubt.  He's turned Hoban into the STVM of Ohio football.

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11 hours ago, dre22era said:

Meanwhile the Dynasty continues in UA's back yard 

Ill continue being the Idiot on here capping for UA to hire THAT COACH 

 

I was shocked YSU passed on him.  He'll eventually move on to a college program with the right opportunity.  I'm not a huge fan but I can't argue with his success.

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54 minutes ago, zippy5 said:

HS to D-1 is a fairly large jump

It’s huge. Hoban’s athletes always overwhelm the other teams. It’d be tough to do that in D-1, unless he was at Clemson or Ohio State.

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1 hour ago, zippy5 said:

HS to D-1 is a fairly large jump

 

Oh come on; there must be hundreds of guys who had fantastic high school coaching careers when they could recruit players while almost all of their opponents could not that went straight to D1with huge success. Let me just list a few; Gerry Faust - oh, never mind.

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1 hour ago, Blue & Gold said:

Btw, I noticed Gest on the sideline, dressed in a jersey but no pads.

Im guessing he is hurt . Great young man and works hard but cant stay healthy.

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4 hours ago, Zipmeister said:

 

Oh come on; there must be hundreds of guys who had fantastic high school coaching careers when they could recruit players while almost all of their opponents could not that went straight to D1with huge success. Let me just list a few; Gerry Faust - oh, never mind.

 

There are some but they are few and far between.  Art Briles is on that comes to mind.  Well worth revisiting to reignite a nearly two year old argument!

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5 hours ago, John Ward said:

Im guessing he is hurt . Great young man and works hard but cant stay healthy.

I heard reliably that there some bad injuries at the pre season scrimmage

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18 minutes ago, NWAkron said:

I heard reliably that there some bad injuries at the pre season scrimmage

We can't catch a break.

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On 11/6/2020 at 11:51 AM, zipsoutsider said:
On 11/6/2020 at 11:51 AM, zipsoutsider said:
On 11/5/2020 at 9:17 AM, Spin said:

 

It's a complete build. We'll know in a couple years whether Tom Arth is the man to build a conference contender or not. Actually, with the economics of the university, we have him until his contract is up. The previous regime didn't leave him much to work with.

 

I understand in northeast Ohio "rebuild" is a four letter word. I've lived it too. :(

This is year 2....I would hope we don't wait until year 4 for results. Also, there is zero reason for optimism. 

 

Larry Williams' ego has already cost the program, dearly.

 

This is year 2....I would hope we don't wait until year 4 for results. Also, there is zero reason for optimism. 

 

So you expect sophomores to take starting positions and win games at the FBS level? 

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On 11/7/2020 at 10:47 AM, Zipmeister said:

 

Oh come on; there must be hundreds of guys who had fantastic high school coaching careers when they could recruit players while almost all of their opponents could not that went straight to D1with huge success. Let me just list a few; Gerry Faust - oh, never mind.

We now live in an era where in Pro Sports coaches are getting hired with No Experience fresh out the booth our from their couch. 

The good ol Bandwagon formula Akron continues to fail at doing is not working. 

I bet Tim Tyrell could walk on that UA sideline right now and get a win compared to that overrated overpaid trash coach we are stuck paying who may in the end bury our D1 Football Program. 

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3 minutes ago, dre22era said:

We now live in an era where in Pro Sports coaches are getting hired with No Experience fresh out the booth our from their couch. 

 

who?

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56 minutes ago, LZIp said:

who?

 

Who indeed.

Half the NFL head coaches had no coaching experience when hired.

Team owners simply visited No Experience fresh out the booth our from their couch.com to select a head coach.

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At the end of the day, it largely comes down to talent.  The Zips are at the bottom of the MAC because their talent is at the bottom of the MAC.  Acquisition of talent is a responsibility of the coaching staff in recruiting, but it's not like some coach could drop onto the sideline right now and suddenly change this squad into a winning team.

 

Last year, they were left with nothing.  This year, we'd better start seeing an improvement in the talent level.   Hopefully, they are past whatever dents the Covid and preseason scrimmage put in the lineup and we can start seeing any improvement soon.

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3 hours ago, clarkwgriswold said:

At the end of the day, it largely comes down to talent.  The Zips are at the bottom of the MAC because their talent is at the bottom of the MAC.  Acquisition of talent is a responsibility of the coaching staff in recruiting, but it's not like some coach could drop onto the sideline right now and suddenly change this squad into a winning team.

 

Last year, they were left with nothing.  This year, we'd better start seeing an improvement in the talent level.   Hopefully, they are past whatever dents the Covid and preseason scrimmage put in the lineup and we can start seeing any improvement soon.

It does come down to talent, and Bowden left the cupboard bare.  Look at the Zips football scholarship list.  The receivers had some good returning players.  LBs had some upperclassmen, but outside of Bubba, there is not much talent.  Same with CBs.  The rest of the position groups have little to no good upper classmen.  Also, look at the 21 committment list.  There is only one 3 star, and that is EPPS who has reopened up his recruitment.  

 

Talent is weak, and it does not appear that the gap will be closed.

s

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26 minutes ago, bigjim said:

Also, look at the 21 committment list.  There is only one 3 star, and that is EPPS who has reopened up his recruitment.  

This isn’t accurate. The CB was updated to a 3 star.  Many of our commits aren’t even showing on 247, let alone ranked. We should end up having double digit 3 stars IMO. There is plenty immediate help in JUCO and the transfer portal...how much immediate help will they take is the question. I don’t think they did enough in their 1st 2 seasons here. But what that said, playing so many young players should pay off down the road. The question is will they (the players and staff) be here?

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1 hour ago, LZIp said:

This isn’t accurate. The CB was updated to a 3 star.  Many of our commits aren’t even showing on 247, let alone ranked. We should end up having double digit 3 stars IMO. There is plenty immediate help in JUCO and the transfer portal...how much immediate help will they take is the question. I don’t think they did enough in their 1st 2 seasons here. But what that said, playing so many young players should pay off down the road. The question is will they (the players and staff) be here?

I get what you are saying and I understand a turnaround takes time. But I am not seeing the stream of better talent into this team. I do not know if these coaches can recruit at the MAC level. For that matter, I have not seen that these coaches can coach. Watching games this season and last there has never been a game where I could say I see what the coaches are trying to do, but they don't have the talent to do it. Can Arth turn it around? I don't know. I come from a business world that judged on performance. If I judged the Zips on that the coaches would not fare well. I believe Zip fans want to believe in their program but they are getting little to cling to. When Arth holds pressers and boasts about how improved his team is and then they lose by 45 I begin to lose confidence in him and the staff. I would rather him say we are not ready and will have trouble competing than getting my hopes up only to be destroyed. 

 

I can't help but compare this situation to the one Groce inherited. Groce came to Akron very late in the game, but he still found a way to add talent. Granted, it didn't stick, yet from that season he built and got better players that fit his culture. He was always competitive. True, Bball needs fewer players but he also had fewer scholarships, fewer coaches, a poor facility and was late in recruiting. He got the job done. Both Kent and Miami turned their programs around in two years. So did OU when Solich got there. So did BG when Babers got there. My point is good coaches can ignite excitement in two years. 

 

Personally I am sick of the excuse that we are young and will be getting better every year. It is a philosophy that accepts losing, which we are getting way too good at. 

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3 hours ago, LZIp said:

This isn’t accurate. The CB was updated to a 3 star.  Many of our commits aren’t even showing on 247, let alone ranked. We should end up having double digit 3 stars IMO. There is plenty immediate help in JUCO and the transfer portal...how much immediate help will they take is the question. I don’t think they did enough in their 1st 2 seasons here. But what that said, playing so many young players should pay off down the road. The question is will they (the players and staff) be here?

We may end up having double digit 3 stars.  However, looking at 247, the following schools have the number of 3 stars prior to the season.  Toledo, Miami, and Buffalo each have 17 -3 stars.  Western 15, Central 12,, and NI  14.  We need to catch up on talent.  Look at OSU and Notre Dame.  Every player has a minimum of 3 stars.  Stars are important.  They will not all pan out, but it is important to get talent to the school.

You are right.  Hence is listed as a 3 star player.  We need many more.  

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3 hours ago, LZIp said:

This isn’t accurate. The CB was updated to a 3 star.  Many of our commits aren’t even showing on 247, let alone ranked. We should end up having double digit 3 stars IMO. There is plenty immediate help in JUCO and the transfer portal...how much immediate help will they take is the question. I don’t think they did enough in their 1st 2 seasons here. But what that said, playing so many young players should pay off down the road. The question is will they (the players and staff) be here?

Not trying to get into an argument, but the comment in the first yellow does not make any sense.  With the second yellow, I agree that playing young players will pay off.  That is if they have talent to improve with the playing time.  

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6 hours ago, bigjim said:

Not trying to get into an argument, but the comment in the first yellow does not make any sense.  With the second yellow, I agree that playing young players will pay off.  That is if they have talent to improve with the playing time.  

How doesn't it make sense? There is a list on here that shows nearly 20 commits to the program for next year on this website. The players have tweeted that they have committed, but 247 has not updated their website. Of the commits that 247 does show,  4 of them have "NA". They aren't ranked yet but eventually will be.

Edited by LZIp

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On 11/8/2020 at 11:53 PM, 72 Roo said:

 

 

Personally I am sick of the excuse that we are young and will be getting better every year. It is a philosophy that accepts losing, which we are getting way too good at. 

Preach!

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On 11/8/2020 at 11:53 PM, 72 Roo said:

Personally I am sick of the excuse that we are young and will be getting better every year. It is a philosophy that accepts losing, which we are getting way too good at. 

I don't know that it is an excuse that we are young. If you look at the 113 person roster on GoZips we have 84 players that are Sophomores/Freshman. That has to be the youngest roster in college football history .

 

I find it really risky by Arth to invest so heavily in Freshman recruits. By the time they're any good, your record is so terrible you get fired and the next coach gets the credit. And the fan interest is decimated. 

 

Lee Owens tried this route, and it took him 9 years to go 7-5. Year 10 gives way to JD Brookhart who soon wins a MAC Championship. Owens had no choice, and transferring wasn't nearly as common in the 90's.

 

We now live in the era of transfers, and it is fairly common for teams to pluck mature guys off the waiver wire to quickly field a competitive team. Bowden did this. Of course, you are at the mercy of the waiver wire Gods, and they both giveth, and taketh away. For every Rodney Coe there are three or four Deltron Sands, who never produce outside the weight room due to injury, or other issues. Basing a program off transfers isn't sustainable...but it gets you competitive quickly.

 

I wish Arth would have leaned a lot heavier on transfers. I don't foresee us winning a game until 2021. And maybe not win a MAC game until 2022. Hope I'm wrong, but unless we bring in a bunch of transfers, it is a loooong road back to winning seasons.

 

Arth and Ianello are going to have similar records after 2 seasons. Ianello was a jackass and got canned. Arth is a nice guy and his players are sticking around, and achieving in the classroom. That, the budget crunch and the lag inherent to winning with such a young team mean he isn't going anywhere. 

 

Maybe in 4 years we have a bunch of 5th year senior offensive linemen, and we're competing at the top of the MAC. That's all we can hope for. But the ascent to that point has been, and for the next two seasons, will continue to be really painful. 

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