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MAC Men's Basketball 2021-2022


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5 minutes ago, TheZipCat said:


And?Just because something will be with us forever doesn't mean you should/can treat it trivally, especially in the initial phases of novel viruse's adaptation to the human immune system and our immune system to it. There's a saturation point to adaptation which you hope to reach a stable, predicable, rate of mutation. This is why H1N1 (which is the chief culprit for the 1918 pandemic) is not as deadly today. It reached its mutable saturation point to which there's only a limited scope that it can adapt; and we reached a level where our immune systems don't over-react to the infection...and we learned how to treat patients to increase survivability. The 1918 pandemic it wasn't the virus that killed you, it was your autoimmune cytokine shock that killed you. You literally drowned in your own autoimmune response.

The original projections back in February 2020 based on the rate of mutation, to reach a point of normalcy was at the earliest 2022...latest 2025. We're right on track for that projection. Huh, it's almost as if science works or something.

But when they first came out with the vaccine wasn't the message that if you take the vaccine, you'll be immune to the virus & we'll thus make the virus extinct? Ala, measles, polio, small pox, etc., etc.  That was certainly my understanding (I realize I put that in terrible layman's terms. Lol.)

 

But if that was in fact the original message, was it an over-simplification?  Or perhaps wishful thinking from the beginning?  Or was the vaccine simply not as effective as originally hoped?  

 

And I'll ask here because it sounds like you have a pretty good idea of what you're talking about: how is it we had effective vaccinations for measles, polio, small pox, etc., but not for the flu or the "common cold?"  What's the difference?

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1 hour ago, TheZipCat said:


And?Just because something will be with us forever doesn't mean you should/can treat it trivally, especially in the initial phases of novel viruse's adaptation to the human immune system and our immune system to it. There's a saturation point to adaptation which you hope to reach a stable, predicable, rate of mutation. This is why H1N1 (which is the chief culprit for the 1918 pandemic) is not as deadly today. It reached its mutable saturation point to which there's only a limited scope for which it can mutate, and our immune system has a wider ability to adapt to those mutations...and we learned how to treat patients to increase survivability. With the 1918 pandemic it wasn't the virus that killed you, it was your autoimmune cytokine shock that killed you. You literally drowned in your own autoimmune response of trying to fight the virus. If given enough time, most people fought it off. The problem was...they drowned long before that could happen.

The original projections back in February 2020 based on the rate of mutation, to reach a point of normalcy was at the earliest 2022...latest 2025. We're right on track for that projection. Huh, it's almost as if science works or something.

Thank you Dr Fauci! It's an honor to have you as a contributing member of ZN.o!

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5 hours ago, Hilltopper said:

Thank you Dr Fauci! It's an honor to have you as a contributing member of ZN.o!


No, no, not a doctor...just a humble alumni who bothered to learn something while they were at the University Of Akron, and bothers to read the scientific research on a semi-regular basis.

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7 hours ago, Blue & Gold said:

But when they first came out with the vaccine wasn't the message that if you take the vaccine, you'll be immune to the virus & we'll thus make the virus extinct? Ala, measles, polio, small pox, etc., etc.  That was certainly my understanding (I realize I put that in terrible layman's terms. Lol.)


Common misconception. The message from scientists was always, increased protection. There was always the warning that with the rate of mutation with SARS-CoV-2 that there would be a constant need to be vigilant AND potentially booster. Measles, polio and smallpox vaccination also doesn't make one immune because nothing is ever 100%. Influenza does this every year as well, it out mutates our antibodies to it. But we've learned how to identify dominant strains, and learned how it spreads so we can widespread vaccinate against it every year, thus successfully reducing the yearly deaths in the US to ~40,000 annually. If we did not vaccinate world wide for dominate strains of influenza every year, it most certainly would kill more people.

 

Measles and polio are not extinct, they very much still exist. They've been controlled with such widespread use of vaccination there is effectively no path for it to spread rapidly in most developed nations, and when cases are found they are immediately contact traced and isolated. We have had measles outbreaks amongst unvaccinated peoples over the past decade in the US, which was a concern.

Smallpox was eradicated because of an extremely aggressive vaccination effort, where the WHO literally tracked down every active case in the world and vaccinated all the people around the sick person. The aggressive vaccination campaign successfully eliminated it. But it's a game of statistics, nothing is ever 100%, that's why they targeted all the people around the sick person thus effectively reducing the chance of spread to effectively zero. 

The difference is, the WHO aggressively tracked down every single case in the World to eradicate the disease. China has taken this approach with SARS-CoV-2, just this past week they locked down Xi'an after it went from a handful of cases to several thousand in like two days. They still don't have very good vaccination infrastructure though, as I've talked with several Chinese friends who live in Xi'an about this. Note I'm not advocating for this aggressive policy, I think with vaccination and boosting we can effectively control the worst effects (hospitalizations and deaths).

 

7 hours ago, Blue & Gold said:

But if that was in fact the original message, was it an over-simplification?  Or perhaps wishful thinking from the beginning?  Or was the vaccine simply not as effective as originally hoped?  


It wasn't the original message, most people misinterpreted it and it becomes a game of telephone. There were hopes that one round of vaccination would be enough, if enough people did it quick enough...however most researchers were not so hopeful.  Just as the US began widespread vaccination in February of 2021 guess what India did? They removed all restrictions (no more masking, no more social distancing) for their month-long religious holidays, despite not having widespread vaccination. Predictably, they had outbreaks which ultimately led to the Delta varant.  Guess what the United States started doing in March/April of 2021? Most states began lifting most restrictions, despite India having a massive wave...and Delta then made its way here.

 

7 hours ago, Blue & Gold said:

And I'll ask here because it sounds like you have a pretty good idea of what you're talking about: how is it we had effective vaccinations for measles, polio, small pox, etc., but not for the flu or the "common cold?"  What's the difference?


The viruses themselves is the major difference. They all have different transmissibilities, latency periods, incubation times, asymptomacy etc. You have to realize we didn't get control of measles overnight, it took years of targeted aggressive vaccination between 1963 (when it was introduced) through 1968. Same with Polio but 1956-1959. The Polio vaccine took three shots, and by 1959 some parents were neglecting to finish the 2nd and 3rd shots which led to spikes in cases; and recommendations for a 4th round of boosters for polio.

You and I have luckily lived in a time period where most of this was ancient history. However for those studying infectious disease, nothing going on now is "new"...we just haven't faced something like this (luckily) for several decades.

Sorry for the novel. But I desperately want people to understand this as best they can.

Edited by TheZipCat
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18 hours ago, TheZipCat said:


No, no, not a doctor...just a humble alumni who bothered to learn something while they were at the University Of Akron, and bothers to read the scientific research on a semi-regular basis.

I wonder how many Akron alumni remember the Phlogiston Theory?  I'm pretty sure that was in one of our required for everyone general studies classes.  Remembering that science should help us understand our covid response.

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43 minutes ago, Ham said:

I wonder how many Akron alumni remember the Phlogiston Theory?  I'm pretty sure that was in one of our required for everyone general studies classes.  Remembering that science should help us understand our covid response.


Don't need to remember every intricate idea to have (and advocate for) a basic level of competency in understanding/seeking out information. You don't have to remember what Red-Queen Hypothesis is in Evolutionary theory to understand the idea it describes. It's okay to not remember too. What's downright depressing is when people arrogantly assert they know more than those who actually do. And it's embarrassing when they are University of Akron alumni. Ala @Hilltopper's dissuasive comment.

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1 hour ago, TheZipCat said:


Don't need to remember every intricate idea to have (and advocate for) a basic level of competency in understanding/seeking out information. You don't have to remember what Red-Queen Hypothesis is in Evolutionary theory to understand the idea it describes. It's okay to not remember too. What's downright depressing is when people arrogantly assert they know more than those who actually do. And it's embarrassing when they are University of Akron alumni. Ala @Hilltopper's dissuasive comment.

You're trying to hard. You're ascribing all kinds of things to my statements that just aren't there. I guess it's just the way I live my life that I have this optimism that overrides the fear mongering that is so prevalent today. Keep it up though, it's entertaining. 

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I might as well weigh in on this while we nervously await the Nelsonville Kittens.   There's a middle ground.  I'm all for vaccines.  I always get a flu shot and never get the flu.  I don't want covid so I got my vaccine and booster.  Is there a chance I can still get it, sure, but I like my odds better with the vaccine.   But now that we know what to do to protect ourselves and can get vaccines I'm done with restrictions.  Now that we know better hopefully we will all do better.  I'm not personally offended by the unvaccinated.   If they want to risk getting very sick and or die that's on them.  I see them in the obits every day...anyone who dies "at Akron General" or after a "in the hospital" probably was a covid case.  This virus can't be contained so we have to live with it.

Edited by NWAkron
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I'll weigh in since this thread has nearly completed a full swirly at this point.  I have my vaccine and booster and regularly mask.  I am confident I could survive the virus, but I don't do these things for me.  I do them for my immune compromised spouse, my co-worker battling cancer, the senior that volunteers for me....

 

Like NWAkron said, there's a middle ground. 

 

Also, I opt to rely on the scientists as opposed to talk show hosts, grandstanding politicians and internet whackos.

 

To get us back on topic, the current MAC Standings:

Ohio                1-0   
Akron              1-0   
Miami              1-0   
Ball State        1-0    
CMU                1-0    
Toledo             1-1   
Brimfield         1-1    

EMU                0-0    
N. Illinois         0-0   
BG                   0-1   
Buffalo            0-2   
WMU              0-2

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12 minutes ago, clarkwgriswold said:

I'll weigh in since this thread has nearly completed a full swirly at this point.  I have my vaccine and booster and regularly mask.  I am confident I could survive the virus, but I don't do these things for me.  I do them for my immune compromised spouse, my co-worker battling cancer, the senior that volunteers for me....

 

Like NWAkron said, there's a middle ground. 

 

Also, I opt to rely on the scientists as opposed to talk show hosts, grandstanding politicians and internet whackos.

 

To get us back on topic, the current MAC Standings:

Ohio                1-0   
Akron              1-0   
Miami              1-0   
Ball State        1-0    
CMU                1-0    
Toledo             1-1   
Brimfield         1-1    

EMU                0-0    
N. Illinois         0-0   
BG                   0-1   
Buffalo            0-2   
WMU              0-2

Our funny friends in Muncie are so excited by Whitford's come from behind win last night.

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@TheZipCat, you missed my point.  Phlogiston was a widely accepted  explaination for fire.  It would be laughable to most reasonable people today.  It was used in our class to show that one should be open to new ideas, new information.  If one is locked in on one's thinking, you will be left  behind.  If one becomes locked in on their thinking concerning Covid, whether it was from accepted science or from an out of context statement used by an uninformed talking head, you will be left behind!  Covid is changing.  Our understanding of covid must change.  Our response to Covid must adapt.  I think you have given us information that critical thinkers very much welcome.  We are all tired of this.  I'm tired of taking my trash out to the street, but if I didn't do that tonight in 2* weather, it would just pile up.  Even my dog knows not to foul up his nest.  One cannot put their head in the sand, and wish that change isn't happening. Please continue to help us keep up with best practices to keep us healthy.  My hope is that the people making decisions affecting the young men representing us on the court make those decisions with the players best interests!

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4 hours ago, Hilltopper said:

You're trying to hard. You're ascribing all kinds of things to my statements that just aren't there. I guess it's just the way I live my life that I have this optimism that overrides the fear mongering that is so prevalent today. Keep it up though, it's entertaining. 


Not trying hard at all actually. It's child's play. I'm ascribing to your statements exactly what you said in those statements. I didn't graduate from Can't State afterall. I mean I'll agree with you there...there is a lot of "fear mongering", specifically in regards to fear mongering. There's a lot of fear-mongering over fear-mongering.  It's like the kettle calling the pot black. Hypocrisy at its best. Or perhaps hypocrisy isn't the best adjective...more like projection.

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6 hours ago, TheZipCat said:


Don't need to remember every intricate idea to have (and advocate for) a basic level of competency in understanding/seeking out information. You don't have to remember what Red-Queen Hypothesis is in Evolutionary theory to understand the idea it describes. It's okay to not remember too. What's downright depressing is when people arrogantly assert they know more than those who actually do. And it's embarrassing when they are University of Akron alumni. Ala @Hilltopper's dissuasive comment.

Man, you are really full of yourself today. Stick to sports, they're more fun. How about saving the world on another website. Now go have a beer, eat pizza and cheer on the Zips. 

In Joe we trust!

 

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10 hours ago, 72 Roo said:

Man, you are really full of yourself today. Stick to sports, they're more fun. How about saving the world on another website. Now go have a beer, eat pizza and cheer on the Zips. 

In Joe we trust!

 


I do believe my OP was in direct response to someone else, so (again) your ire should be directed towards those posters not me.

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2 hours ago, TheZipCat said:


I do believe my OP was in direct response to someone else, so (again) your ire should be directed towards those posters not me.

I'll say thank you.  This is important.  Again...we are dealing with a brand new virus that has been clearly linked to cardiovascular and nervous system issues that is infecting vast majorities of the population.  I see people with mild to moderate symptoms joking about how they've lost sense of taste and smell.  Guess what?  That means the virus is in your brain.  What does that mean down the road?  We're a long way away from fully understanding the repercussions of this pandemic.  Will everyone, at some point, be infected with some version of this virus?  Probably.  But resigning ourselves to that fate is a dangerous move.

 

These conversations are necessary, even here.  I find those that become defensive and turn to insults in these situations tend to be the ones that believe they know better than experts with years of education, experience and expertise.

 

“Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'”


― Isaac Asimov

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12 hours ago, Let'sGoZips94 said:

My dad and I ran through the MAC last night. 

 

It blows. OU, Toledo, Buffalo and PCCC are all question marks. Akron is, too. The door is wide open for us to make some noise in March. 

I hate to say it but Nelsonville looks like the best so far, but many years the Zips looked the best at this point.  Toledo flamed out last year and I wonder if that was because they ended up playing many more games than a few others 

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6 minutes ago, NWAkron said:

I hate to say it but Nelsonville looks like the best so far, but many years the Zips looked the best at this point.  Toledo flamed out last year and I wonder if that was because they ended up playing many more games than a few others 

They do...so far. Its hard to argue with their record. Their P5 losses weren't particularly close. Had a nice mid-major win over Belmont. Florida really made us forget about that buzzer beater loss to OSU. I think our team is starting to find their identity and gel (which was probably set back by the unexpected departure of Walton). Looking forward to Tuesday to see where things really stand. I think if we beat Buffalo and OU this early in the season, it would bode well for the rest of conference play.

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I think it's pretty obvious that there are 5 or maybe 6 contenders in this league right now.  Akron is definitely in the mix, and probably needs the most time to grow as a roster.  If we can knock off the kitties at home tomorrow, we will have knocked off the top two MAC preseason poll picks.  Sure, they were the home half of the matchups, but that puts more pressure on those teams later in the season.  I'll take it.

 

The top 4 in NET rankings is pretty close to how I'd rank it right now:

OU

Toledo
Buffalo

Akron

 

Though you could definitely make the case for Akron to be #2, absent that debacle in Ft Myers.

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Quite a game between Muncie and Ravenna. 

Of course, Whitford blows it at the end.  Down by 1 with 11 secs and the Redbird throws up a brick from 3.

flashes will give bobcats all they can handle saturday

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