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Game 8- Marshall


clarkwgriswold
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6 minutes ago, Blue & Gold said:

Thank God for Freeman.  Not to get down on Groce at all, but what sort of team would we be without Freeman?  And we lucked into finding a one-in-a-million diamond in the rough playing pickup ball in the rec center?  We can all (Groce & Co. included) thank our lucky stars for that. That's a once-in-a-lifetime happening.

 

As lucky as Groce & Co. are for finding him, they deserve equal credit for developing him. 

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4 minutes ago, clarkwgriswold said:

Taevion Kinsey is as good of a player as we will see at the JAR this year.  Jimmy Chitwood the point guard was a player too.  The big man who was their leading rebounder and shot blocker was a non-factor.

 

I'm a little worried about X too.  Just doesn't seem to be clicking or engaged.  Here's hoping he's just coming up to speed but he seems to be going backwards. I hope he's not another Dailey, a guy with high expectations that just never seemed to hit stride.

We’re getting a lot less offensively from Walton and X than anyone thought. I figured they’d be good for 20-25 per night combined?

 

At least for last night, X took good care of the ball and hit some FT’s down the stretch.


Do we remove the redshirt from a freshman? Or did last night show we have enough incumbent firepower to fill the Walton void? 

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11 minutes ago, Captain Kangaroo said:

Do we remove the redshirt from a freshman? Or did last night show we have enough incumbent firepower to fill the Walton void? 

I wondered this as well. Wynn played briefly (1st half, I believe) and promptly blew a defensive assignment leading to a wide open transition 3. Don't think we saw him again. I don't think Bandaogo play led at all in the 2nd half, meaning we operated with a 7 man rotation. I don't think that'll cut it through the grind of the season. One more injury or defection would wipe us out.

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20 minutes ago, Captain Kangaroo said:

At least for last night, X took good care of the ball and hit some FT’s down the stretch.

+1.  He looked smooth, cool, calm & collected on a couple of very clutch free throws.

 

21 minutes ago, Captain Kangaroo said:

Do we remove the redshirt from a freshman? Or did last night show we have enough incumbent firepower to fill the Walton void? 

Tough call.  Probably not, but we could really use Kobe's shooting right now.

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For all those Zips fans that complain about the refs, we got every call in the last minute of the game.  X got a foul call when driving to the hoop, Marshall got called for a foul on Freeman under the basket on a rebound, Freeman got fouled on the dunk, a travelling call on Marshall on an offensive rebound, and the foul by Marshall on Freeman with 3.2 seconds left.  Don't get me wrong, they were all fouls and violations in my eyes, but the refs rarely see the  same things I do.

 

However, the key to the game was Marshall missing on a one and one that would have sealed the game.  And the Zips hitting their foul shots at the end of the game.  We earned this game and a great victory for the Zips.

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19 minutes ago, RowdyZip said:

I wondered this as well. Wynn played briefly (1st half, I believe) and promptly blew a defensive assignment leading to a wide open transition 3. Don't think we saw him again. I don't think Bandaogo play led at all in the 2nd half, meaning we operated with a 7 man rotation. I don't think that'll cut it through the grind of the season. One more injury or defection would wipe us out.

The only reason Wynn saw the court was due to Bandaogo injuring his left hand when he was tossed to the court. Aziz played a few minutes in the second half early but spent the rest with an ice bag on his hand.

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Not sure why everyone is jumping on X.  I thought he played well and did what he needed to do in the last few minutes.   88 points.  Zips had plenty of offense.  And like the Ohio State game, the Zips didn't choke or panic on the offensive end when the situation was dire.  And also like the Ohio State game, they blew it defensively at the end.   

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Echoing what many have said here, but my takeaways:

  • Heck of an entertaining game. Marshall sort of gave it to us at the end, but credit to our team for taking it when the opportunity was there.
  • Didn't like Groce switching to the zone at times. There were to distinct instances I recall it leading to a wide open 3 - which they made - and it should have cost us the game.
  • Heck of a game by Tribble and Trimble, but not sure its fair to count on that from them every night.
  • We simply need more from #13 and/or #11 if we want to go to the tourney. We are getting as close to nothing from them as we can. Not necessarily negative plays - but nothing that I see that really contributes to our success.
  • I thought something was up when I didn't see Walton starting or on the bench, and checking here confirmed it. 6/9 shooting and 16 points is what he gave us against the best team we'll play all year. I believe Groce & Co brought him in because it was known his experience and skill was a big need. We aren't as good of a team without him and he lasted a grand total of 6 games. I'm sure it is on Walton that he's no longer on the team, but I think Groce deserves some criticism for not doing better vetting. As a result, we'll have a scholarship not going to use when it was expected to be used on potentially our top player the whole year. Big loss, but hopefully we can overcome it and players perform like they did last night on a more consistent basis.
Edited by LZIp
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7 minutes ago, LZIp said:

Echoing what many have said here, but my takeaways:

  • Heck of an entertaining game. Marshall sort of gave it to us at the end, but credit to our team for taking it when the opportunity was there.
  • Didn't like Groce switching to the zone at times. There were to distinct instances I recall it leading to a wide open 3 - which they made - and it should have cost us the game.
  • Heck of a game by Tribble and Trimble, but not sure its fair to count on that from them every night.
  • We simply need more from #13 and/or #11 if we want to go to the tourney. We are getting as close to nothing from them as we can. Not necessarily negative plays - but nothing that I see that really contributes to our success.
  • I thought something was up when I didn't see Walton starting or on the bench, and checking here confirmed it. 6/9 shooting and 16 points is what he gave us against the best team we'll play all year. I believe Groce & Co brought him in because it was known his experience and skill was a big need. We aren't as good of a team without him and he lasted a grand total of 6 games. I'm sure it is on Walton that he's no longer on the team, but I think Groce deserves some criticism for not doing better vetting. As a result, we'll have a scholarship not going to use when it was expected to be used on potentially our top player the whole year. Big loss, but hopefully we can overcome it and players perform like they did last night on a more consistent basis.

I wonder after 7 years of B ball he decided it was enough or did he leave early so he could get an 8th year next year.  Every time you take a transfer it is a risk.  

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I like the Ball State message board a lot.  They are funny and smart.  My post on KJ got some comments over there.  They read too much into my mid-game missive.  Since they were confused, I will clarify:

 

https://overthepylon.boards.net/thread/3891/walton-grad-transfer?page=3

 

1.  Zips and KJ played like crap in Florida.  They come back from Florida.  KJ departs. The team plays exponentially better.  So I draw conclusion, that the team gels better without him...at least for one game.

2.  Yes, Groce is a high-level coach.  He is better than Whitford, even though Whitford won all those MAC West Championships over the 4 directional schools and that shady Toledo squad.  For me, Whitford was always one of my least favorite coaches who came to the JAR.

3.   I was joking when I blamed Whitford for KJ's behavior, but Groce (unlike Whitford apparently) has a very low level of patience for egomaniacs.  

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40 minutes ago, NWAkron said:

Not sure why everyone is jumping on X.  I thought he played well and did what he needed to do in the last few minutes.   88 points.  Zips had plenty of offense.  And like the Ohio State game, the Zips didn't choke or panic on the offensive end when the situation was dire.  And also like the Ohio State game, they blew it defensively at the end.   

 

Agreed. He wasn't present on the stat sheet so much, but he played a really good game. His D on Taylor with a couple seconds to go was superb, and a guy that had been hitting a whole lot of junk all night missed the shot. The free throws as well. The missed layup to set up the tying play (LOL), and challenging the inbound after Freeman's free throws.

 

I'm more concerned about Clarke. He's allowed Tribble to surpass him in both leadership and ability. But we know what Clarke is capable of, he had some very impressive moments buried on the depth chart last year. I'm ready to see him blossom.

 

Groce missed on Walton. I'm sure Ball State is laughing, as they should. I'm bummed about the wasted scholly, but as far as the basketball and chemistry part at this point, it's addition by subtraction. Like I said, be thankful it happened now when there's plenty of time to improve and grow. 

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Honestly, I don't think Walton was a good fit for this team. We just don't have the perimeter shooters on this roster to be able to get zero floor spacing from a guard. Having KJ and Tribble on the floor at the same time is like playing offense 4 vs 5 as teams know don't have to guard either on the perimeter. It makes it easy for them to double team Freeman in the low post to force him to pass out of a post up and prevent driving lanes to the hoop. 

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The OSU game was the only one I've been able to watch so far until last night. I was really encouraged by his showing there and am bummed he's gone. Maybe he had a bad stretch in FL. But that OSU game on night one with this group seemed to be a really exciting showing. Alas, it was a mirage.

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Since polishing off the early season JAR patsies, X has averaged 6.7 ppg and 1.5 apg.  I think that's cause for concern from our starting point guard.  He may well come around, but if it continues it will be an issue as there will be nights they need his offense.

 

I'm also a little concerned that the defense lost Early on that corner 3 late in the game.  There wasn't anyone withing 15 feet of him.

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12 minutes ago, clarkwgriswold said:

Since polishing off the early season JAR patsies, X has averaged 6.7 ppg and 1.5 apg.  I think that's cause for concern from our starting point guard.  He may well come around, but if it continues it will be an issue as there will be nights they need his offense.

 

I'm also a little concerned that the defense lost Early on that corner 3 late in the game.  There wasn't anyone withing 15 feet of him.

 

Zips certainly had their fair share of uncharacteristic blown coverages last night. As soon as they took their biggest lead, Aziz sagged off of shooters on back to back possessions (mismatch to begin with) and the lead disappeared instantly.

 

On XC, I would be very worried if he was shooting at a high volume inefficiently, but he's not shot the ball much at all. His effective field goal percentage (eFG) is 64% and he's 16-19 at the foul line. He's not creating much of any of his own shots, which is a concern. Maybe seeing him run the 2-guard would help as he could work to get open and spot up, maybe take on off the dribble. I'm most concerned about 11 assists all year so far. He's got to be more impactful. I don't think he's necessarily holding the Zips back in any way, he's just failing to be a floor general.

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35 minutes ago, LoyalZIP said:

 

Zips certainly had their fair share of uncharacteristic blown coverages last night. As soon as they took their biggest lead, Aziz sagged off of shooters on back to back possessions (mismatch to begin with) and the lead disappeared instantly.

 

On XC, I would be very worried if he was shooting at a high volume inefficiently, but he's not shot the ball much at all. His effective field goal percentage (eFG) is 64% and he's 16-19 at the foul line. He's not creating much of any of his own shots, which is a concern. Maybe seeing him run the 2-guard would help as he could work to get open and spot up, maybe take on off the dribble. I'm most concerned about 11 assists all year so far. He's got to be more impactful. I don't think he's necessarily holding the Zips back in any way, he's just failing to be a floor general.

This team doesn't have a LCJ that you can count on to put up 20+ points on a nightly basis. This team needs to be an offense by committee where everyone chips in and you ride the hot hand on a night to night basis. We really can't afford to have non-factors on the offensive end playing. During the LCJ, Xeyrius, Cheese, Banks days we could get away with that as we had enough offensive firepower elsewhere that playing Riak for his defense even though he was an offensive liability worked. We don't have that luxury now.

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I think the team is better off without Walton. We can get plenty offense from the guys we have. Trimble and Ali have shown they can go off. This is the first time Groce has consistently put Tribble in high ball screen situations and he scored or assisted on about 75% of them we’ll take that. I never was a fan of the one year rental for a player in his 7th collegiate basketball season when we have talented guys on the roster who are invested in Akron basketball. 

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59 minutes ago, Bigzip1 said:

I think the team is better off without Walton. We can get plenty offense from the guys we have. Trimble and Ali have shown they can go off. This is the first time Groce has consistently put Tribble in high ball screen situations and he scored or assisted on about 75% of them we’ll take that. I never was a fan of the one year rental for a player in his 7th collegiate basketball season when we have talented guys on the roster who are invested in Akron basketball. 

Can't have a possible saboteur on the roster.  One team.  One fight.

As they said on the Ball State message boards, the two competent coaches (Missouri and Groce) KJ played for kicked him to the "curd."  I think they meant "curb."    Is there a cottage cheese factory in Muncie?

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I don't disagree with anyone's assessment on Walton. All I'm saying is the lack of fit should have been identified well before he was on the roster so that scholarship could go to somebody else who is making our team better right now. To double down, Fulford was coach at Missouri. I don't care enough to confirm they were there at the same time..but its pretty close looking at it. He should have known better.

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