Attendance

[Captain Kangaroo]

Keith Dambrot:``I've run out of excuses,'' he said. ``It used to be that we didn't win. We didn't have local kids. We didn't have good opponents. We had all that tonight.''Keith - It is this simple. Trust me. The Zips still haven't won anything. No NCAA appearances. No MAC Championship appearances..let alone titles. The Zips have won no "marquee" games in the Dambrot era. None. Temple and Mississippi State were nice wins. But those schools were NIT material, or worse.Win a big game, KD. Win a MAC Championship. Beat a Nevada-level opponent. That's when you will pack the JAR. Lose to Illinois Chicago and UALR and play a bunch of cupcakes and you will not pack Rhodes Arena for any game other than K.e.n.t.Ke.n.t drew flies to their basketball games until they began winning. Then they packed the house. The Zips are on the cusp of greatness. But the cusp only takes you so far. Once the Zips make their breakthrough, then the crowds will come. Marketing, schmarketing....win something and people will get "hooked." Win 20 games, play a weak schedule and go to the NIT...and you'll draw 3,300.It isn't rocket science.

[sgm405]

Still, I'd be frustrated as well. I like his idea of giving tickets away to high school kids or to local organizations. Get em to a game and try to get em hooked.

[Blue & Gold]

Agreed. But if I may also add our traditional gripe that the Beacon gave the story absolutely no game-day coverage. That, naturally, doesn't help either. But today's ABJ post-game coverage was very well done.

[Zipster]

Captain, you obviously love our football program and are not a dambrot fan. I have read your posts. I will argue that is much harder to do what we have done in hoop. 14 and 4 in the mac last year and a road post season win.. .Even huggins never won a post season game. why get on kd for wanting a great program. and furthermore kd 49-21and jd 19-19. you judge them on a different grading scale. do you want him to be satisfied with 3300. you obviously dont know him well.you should be thrilled we have someone who wants a great program. Quit making excuses. I have watched this D1 program since the beginning and we are on the verge of three great seasons in a row after years of being horrible. Other than huggins and kd only 4 winning seasons. tear kd down and keep bragging about jds recruiting classes.

[zipsbandman]

Here's my answer to the attendance question.....win the big gamesFans are tired of being let down and this loss will probably take a lot of wind out of the sails.If we win against Toledo last year that is HUGE. Our program would have been exposed to NEOH like it has never been before with a match agains Can't for the finals and a win against Nevada would have surely been a wakeup call for our slepping fanbase.

[74ZIP]

Captain is right...we all hope b.ball(and f.ball) attendance would be better...but...dambrot needs to stop whining about it..you don't schedule Tiffin,St Francis etc etc in pre-con then play one decent team from the lower part of the top 25 who most people may have never seen play or will ever see play again and expect fans to all of a sudden break down the doors...as much as i hate to say it look down the road at Waters,Heath and Christian,play Duke at their place to 79-72 or whatever...win the damn MAC and more fans will show consistently...i'm sure kd is old enough to remember names like Bill Turner,Leonard Paul,Larry Quarles etc etc..old Memorable Hall was usually packed because the Zips played meaningful games and won them and went to the tourney regularly...

[sgm405]

Captain is right...we all hope b.ball(and f.ball) attendance would be better...but...dambrot needs to stop whining about it..you don't schedule Tiffin,St Francis etc etc in pre-con then play one decent team from the lower part of the top 25 who most people may have never seen play or will ever see play again and expect fans to all of a sudden break down the doors...as much as i hate to say it look down the road at Waters,Heath and Christian,play Duke at their place to 79-72 or whatever...win the damn MAC and more fans will show consistently...i'm sure kd is old enough to remember names like Bill Turner,Leonard Paul,Larry Quarles etc etc..old Memorable Hall was usually packed because the Zips played meaningful games and won them and went to the tourney regularly...

Is it just me or did anyone else not feel like Dambrot was whining? He praised the fans that did show up and simply said that we needed to find ways to get more people out to the games...does anyone disagree with that? And why is that considered whining?

[Z-P]

Holy Shit...............This board has really gone haywire when ANYONE cracks on CK. Do you newbies know who he is? CK is the single most loyal, dedicated TOTAL UA prop in existance. And no, I'm not his wife, just a casual acquaintance for over the past 8 years or so.After having said all that, he is absolutely correct. I heard Keith on the post game interview with Frenchy also, and when he ranted about how we've been winning big games, and should be filling the JAR last night........yadda, yadda, yadda...........I went (to myself), "What games has he been at?"I love KD.............Cap'n loves KD too (I think because I really have never discussed him at length)................hell, we all love Dambrodt, but he needs to temper his own personal enthusiasm with a pinch of reality. He's got spoiled and is to used to seeing the JAR stuffed when LBJ was playing his HS BB there.Get it done coach, and you'll get SRO instead of empties.That was a great game last night. Everything about it was super. However, just like the Owens teams of old, WE HAVE GOT TO FINISH.That's all.............just had to get in for just a short because I'm only now able to come up to speed on BB (all work and not BB makes ZP a sad boy)..........Merry Christmas to everyone on the board! Y'all make my day brighter because I can drop in here and be with friends!Happy New Year too!

[Valpo Zip]

This is not about captain and his loyalty and niceness... I personally agree with zipster's point. Let's compare JD and KD:JD is waiting for the first offer to take another job.KD is a local guy who clearly states that he is staying here even if Duke offers him a job.JD has a brand new practice facility, and is the only decent D1 team in NEO which gives him an edge in recruiting KD has no edge as far as practice facility, and has so many decent programs in the area to compete with (Can't state, youngstown state).JD had only one half decent season (i insist on the "half") in which all the odds worked for him to end up as a MAC champion.KD has taken the program from loosing record into a consistently winning program that teams don't want to come play us in the JAR. (30-2) home record under KDI have nothing against JD, but comparing the loves that JD gets on this board, I think that KD deserves a lot more than what he currently get.

[Ryno aka Menace]

This is not about captain and his loyalty and niceness... I personally agree with zipster's point. Let's compare JD and KD:JD is waiting for the first offer to take another job.KD is a local guy who clearly states that he is staying here even if Duke offers him a job.JD has a brand new practice facility, and is the only decent D1 team in NEO which gives him an edge in recruiting KD has no edge as far as practice facility, and has so many decent programs in the area to compete with (Can't state, youngstown state).JD had only one half decent season (i insist on the "half") in which all the odds worked for him to end up as a MAC champion.KD has taken the program from loosing record into a consistently winning program that teams don't want to come play us in the JAR. (30-2) home record under KDI have nothing against JD, but comparing the loves that JD gets on this board, I think that KD deserves a lot more than what he currently get.

Bravo! Bravo! I agree 110%...IMO the jury is still out on JD, I think the potential is there (ie games against NC State) but potential without results gets you (ass kick'n by Can't, Western Mich, and OU, and no MAC title or atlarge BCS bid and an empty Rubber Bowl the opening home game of the following season.

[Captain Kangaroo]

Captain, you obviously love our football program and are not a dambrot fan.

Man, I am soooo transparent! Can someone give me mt $550.00 back that I gave to the basketball program for season tickets this year?

I have read your posts. I will argue that is much harder to do what we have done in hoop. 14 and 4 in the mac last year and a road post season win.. .Even huggins never won a post season game.

I never said what Dambrot is doing, or has accomplished is simple. My post (you should read it sometime) was strictly about attendance. While what Dambrot's teams have accomplished is phenomenal, it is not enough to fill the JAR. He has not yet taken a team to the MAC finals, let alone win a Championship and play in the Big Dance. Winning Championships and Dancing in March is what sells the JAR out. That is when the bandwagon starts. One-and-done in the NIT is groundbreaking for the Zips program, but it isn't going to get "Joe Akron" off his butt to check out the team. It is that simple. That is what I said in my post.

why get on kd for wanting a great program.

I'm not getting on him at all. I am speaking the facts. I look at what K.e.n.t basketball has accomplished over the past 8 years, and I look at what the Zips have accomplished. If the Zips had done what K.e.n.t has, the JAR would be jammed every freaking night. But...we haven't. And I'm incredulous at comments that wonder "Why isn't the JAR full in 2006-7?" It is simple. Do something to make "Joe Akron" take notice and he'll show up. If you don't, Joe Akron is buying his son a Greg Oden jersey and staying home to watch the Buckeyes. It ain't rocket science.

and furthermore kd 49-21and jd 19-19. you judge them on a different grading scale. do you want him to be satisfied with 3300. you obviously dont know him well.you should be thrilled we have someone who wants a great program. Quit making excuses.

My comments are regarding attendance. The Lord gave them eyes, but they cannot see. If you choose to fabricate things I have written in your own mind, I can't help you. If you want to read my posts regarding the football team this year you will find them 100% objective. Likewise my basketball posts are 100% objective. You OBVIOUSLY believe that KD can do no wrong. And you know, you are correct 90% of the time. But when it comes to the results that count....championships and BIG wins...KD has work to do. If hew does that work, the JAR will be full on a regular basis. That's EXACTLY what I wrote in my post above, and it remains 100% true.

I have watched this D1 program since the beginning and we are on the verge of three great seasons in a row after years of being horrible. Other than huggins and kd only 4 winning seasons.

Being on the verge of greatness doesn't fill the JAR. Greatness fills the JAR. Until KD achieves greatness, the JAR will not be filled on a regular basis. Unless you give 1,000's of tickets away for free. Then you have a full JAR...but at what cost?

tear kd down and keep bragging about jds recruiting classes.

Read my posts. They are always objective, regardless of sport. You can agree with me or disagree, but is is pathetic to twist or spin my words to suit your agenda.JD won "something." That "something" brought over 15,000 Zips fans to Detroit to follow the program. You saw the residual effect of that this season, where the Rubber Bowl, despite a horrible schedule, an underperforming team and bad weather drew a few thousand fans per game than it ever should. That is because the Championship got a few thousand people on the bandwagon. It would be the same for basketball.You can also pack this one away for future reference: The Zips, if they play to their potential, will have a marquee Bracket Buster game in February. It will be an ESPN game. It will be held while school is in session, and it will be a sellout. I hope the above post is clear. But I can only do so much.

[zen]

It isn't rocket science.

May not be rocket science, but it's a somewhat foreign and ellusive concept to people who don't understand this market.True, frontrunning and bandwagoning are a normal phenomenon everywhere, but some teams/markets/institutions have a "loyal following". I agree with you, it's a bit unrealistic to expect that when you haven't done anything that barely moves the needle on "bigtime showing" meter, but I think some coaches and institutional staff feel that the student body and the local yokals will drop their dime and show up just because it's "their school", and in some ways, maybe they have a point. It's a tough unrealistic in what is basically a commuter school, but I understand why they would think (or hope) for it.

[zip81]

Win MAC championships.Get tournament bids.That will solve any problems at the gate.Remember the Huggins era?Win and they will come (despite the marketing department's efforts )

[Zip Watcher]

With all apologies to the Padre & CK himself, I have to say I come down squarely on the side of KD on this attendence debate. I don't see it as whining, unrealistic, or anything remotely close. He's asking for help in elevating the program. This program elevation requires many things to happen, and only so many are controlled by the coaching staff. There comes a time that the fans have to do their part .. and that time is now, was Friday night, and will be again every game this season.To best illustrate my disagreement here, I'll use football as an example.

Keith - It is this simple. Trust me. The Zips still haven't won anything. No NCAA appearances. No MAC Championship appearances..let alone titles. The Zips have won no "marquee" games in the Dambrot era. None. Temple and Mississippi State were nice wins. But those schools were NIT material, or worse.

How many marquee games had the Football Zips won as of Thanksgiving, 2005?My answer: ZERO.A quick search here will find our friend UAM's posts exhorting fans to make a good showing in Detroit for the championship game. UA paid the transport for many. We posted to get people there, the AD posted to get people there .. we all took as many people as possible to that game .. and to the point, JD & the Zips hadn't won jack squat, by the measuring stick being used here w/ the hoops team.Yet, that wasn't whining or unrealistic expectations or requests from the community. We all understood the importance of a good showing attendence wise, both for pure support of our Zips and for the prospects of a bowl game in case we had lost the MACC. We brought out a big crowd to urge on a team that had won NOTHING as of yet. The rest is history.Now, since the ABJ is what it is, and I don't have the time to find another archived article, I'm going to use some recollection here, but I'm sure several posters will recall this:In the days following the Zips' win over NIU @ Ford Field, several articles appeared in both the ABJ & PD as well as the Detroit papers. One of the CLEAR things that came across in those articles was the players & JD mentioning how inspiring & uplifiting it was to come out of the tunnels @ Ford field and see a crowd dominated by the Blue & Gold clad Zips Nation. That was real .. it helped in some small way & the players & coaches noticed .. and all those Zips fans (most of us included) were there to root on a team that had "no marquee wins".If the Zips Nation can pull it together to have 8k in the blizzard on Thanksgiving & take 7 or 8k to Detroit on a weeknight .. all for a team with no marquee wins .. then I think the Zips Nation should be able to fill the JAR on a Friday night for a team with a post season victory and a 21 game home winning streak. I do see a double standard in the expectations here regarding the hoops team.I frankly believe that Keith should continue to make the pitch to everyone listening on the radio to get down and support the team. Fans won't make or break every game, but I guarantee that if the JAR were a jammed bandbox night in and night out .. we wouldn't see many lapses in intensity by the Zips themselves.The fans and community do need to bear some responsibility for the program elevation that IS underway .. and if we do our part, I think then we can take even greater joy & pleasure from the results that come... my $.02Happy Holidays

[Z-P]

OK ZW..............glad you weighed in.All we're saying is this..............we're in a free market sports economy in the USA. There are lots of products competing for peoples attention and devotion.Want support? Do something to earn it. Then do it again, and again, and again. You'll get the support.The MCB drew from the community because JD had very recently accomplished just that. People could reconnect. I doubt noise on the board did much. UAM's free ride did..................but people had already committed mentaly to the fact that they were going to take the trip. A ticket and a ride is nothing compared to the time requirement the day after Christmas for most folks.My opinions.............We love KD, but...............we just think he's whinning a little bit when he shouldn't. He doesn't need to.............it's coming, just keep choppin the wood.And yes, I was really disappointed also by the weak showing in the stands Friday night. I can see why there would be empty seats for Tiffin and St Whatever, but Nevada??? Shame on the local sports crowd.Frenchy said there were even 8 NBA Scouts at the game............BTW, did you see Danny Ferry catching a nap up in the stands Happy New Year...........

[Zip Watcher]

I understand what you're saying. I really do & I don't disagree about the market stuff & that winning will bring the bandwagon.My example was not of the MCB attendence, it was of the MACC game. Everyone & their brother, you me & CK included beat the ground to get folks to that game, at which time JD hadn't won any big games.Were we whining? Had the Zips done anything to "earn" the support?I don't think so .. and I don't think KD is whining now.He's merely trying to drum up support in any way he can .. much like you, CK, GP1, UAM and everyone one else did for the gridiron guys leading up to the MACC game last season.Ciao.

[UADavid]

My example was not of the MCB attendence, it was of the MACC game. Everyone & their brother, you me & CK included beat the ground to get folks to that game, at which time JD hadn't won any big games.

We were playing for the MACC. Not a strong argument to make your case. I was at that game and there was a good following of Akron fans in attendance for a thursday game in Detroit. If the BBall team makes it to the MACC there will be a very good following too.

[GP1]

Z-P and Zip Watcher are making really good points and I just want to weigh in. Three actually tie together and they are community support, stop complaining from the coach and product. Why am I weighing in? I have no clue because I'm part of the problem as I have not attended a BB game this year. Anyhow, here it goes.....The product first. I understand all of the points about the basketball team not winning anything last year, but I don't think the casual fan around Akron cares about that. The question I always ask myself about BB is whether or not the product is good. IMHO, for the price, there is no better value in Summit or Stark Counties than going to a Zips BB game. Whether or not they win the MAC tournament is immaterial to the fact that the games are entertaining, there isn't a bad seat in the JAR, the kids play hard and when one attends a MAC game, they see good competition come to town in addition to a good Zips team.The coach complaining about attendance. I don't like it, but I don't think it is hurting basically because few are listening. KD should be talking to the people attending the games and not those not attending. After the Toledo football game, one of the Toledo assistant coaches was doing a post game radio interview on the local radio network and more than once thanked those fans who came out on a cold night to watch the game. I understand his frustration, but that's what KD should be doing. The Marketing Department should be talking to those not attending.Finally, Zip Watcher mentioned community support. I hope nobody takes this the wrong way, but I am not originally from NE Ohio and I travel all over the country for work and I have to say that the NE Ohio sports fan is a strange bird. There is a strange sense of entitlement mixed with bitterness that obstructs enjoyment of watching sporting events and being a fan. It is the notion that "we are great fans; therefore, we deserve a good, championship team and if we don't get what we deserve then screw you". Approximately 2,200 of these people did not show up last Friday for the Nevada game. The only thing fans deserve when they buy a ticket to a BB game is the right to walk in and watch the game. They don't deserve a win. Contrary to what Terry Pluto writes, we deserve what we get. KD getting in the face of bitter people will not make the bitterman want to come to a game. Sports fans around this area want their asses kissed, so the Athletic Department had better pucker up if they want people to show up (Note to Athletic Department, this does not mean giving away free tickets).We like to blame the Marketing Department for lack of attendance and poor effort (they deserve it), but the culture around NE Ohio is a very difficult nut to crack. Asking 5,500 people to show up for a BB game against a Top 25 team at Christmas time is not asking too much out of a community with the population of Summit and Stark Counties. The price is cheap and the product is good (the easiest product to market and sell). It's really a cultural problem around this area. I've thought this for a long time and Z-P's and Zip Watcher's posts just helped me bring my thoughts together.

[Captain Kangaroo]

My example was not of the MCB attendence, it was of the MACC game.  Everyone & their brother, you me & CK included beat the ground to get folks to that game, at which time JD hadn't won any big games.

I would say a valid comparison would then be the MAC Basketball Championship. IF we had beaten Toledo...there's at least 10k Zips fans at the finals vs. K.e.n.t. @ The Q. Buzz-kill. There would have been residuals from that game that would have helped attendance this season. That's one of several huge "opportunities lost" in recent Zips hoops history.UALR isn't all that great this season, and we lost to them on a neutral court, missing a chance for a nationally televised game vs. Texas Tech. Buzz-kill. We lost to UIC, who is sub-.500 this season. Buzz-kill. And, further cooling Joe Akron's interest...we lost to Nevada at home. Buzz-kill.If I'm KD I'm pointing three fingers at why the JAR isn't filled:One finger at himself for not winning the games he needed to win in order to force Joe Akron to pay attention. KD's the CEO that needs to take the Zips "From Good to Great." Joe Akron has proven he'll show up only in limited numbers for "Good." And we are only "Good" at this time.One at Akron Marketing, who hasn't done squat to spread the word regarding the program to the community, and who actually seems to create policies to miff the students. Hell, 1/3 of the way into the season they can't even get the scoreboard working.One at "Joe Akron" - Who doesn't want to take his son down to the JAR to see a really good basketball team against some great competition (Nevada game).I'm not one of the guys that says KD is whining. I'm glad he's not happy with the place 2/3 full. But by the same token I wish he would focus more on winning these key games and stop harping on the attendance. Those 3,300 fans that showed up were extremely vocal and did their best to support the team. My son was yelling most of the game and had tears streaming down his face after we lost. It is a disservice to those showing up if you grouse about those not showing up instead of appreciating those who did.In summation I say - Z-P is correct. "Keep chopping wood and they will come." However - Go 10-6 in the MAC with a second round tourney exit...and you'll be grousing about attendance again next season. 'Cuz that's how Joe Akron rolls....

[Z-P]

For G...........no argument, well explained. Estoy acquerdo.nm

[Zip Watcher]

I would say a valid comparison would then be the MAC Basketball Championship.

And I would say that beating Nevada on Friday would have had as big an impact on the hoops program as beating NIU did on the football. The exposure & status garnered from knocking off a 10-1 ranked team would pay HUGE dividends for KD's club.I think that our difference of opinion lies there .. I think the games had similar importance, whereas others do not.Ultimately, I probably think like KD .. the MAC championship will be nice & we need to get one done soon .. but in the long run, that will be an afterthought, and just another game on the schedule in March to tune up for tourney time. Gotta get there first though.

[Zips Win!]

I agree with GP1, although it doesn't apply only to NE Ohio...it applies all over the state. As long as you know who exists, most fans consider MAC schools to be second class citizens in this state, including most UA alum.Winning 13 games with Hipsher or 23 with KD unfortunately does not register with Akron fan. As CK said, winning at the Q last year and being undefeated when Nevada came to town is what is needed.....it will take several years of winning championships to go from 3300 to 4500 consistently..... not sure what it will take to pack the house every game.

[CPAZip]

The Rubber Bowl being 8 miles SW of campus is one big reason fans don't turn out. Because students have never enjoyed attending a game at the RB and therefore there is little desire to attend as an alumni.I remember listing to Huggins complaining about attendance to French 20 years ago. I was a student during the Huggins era. Good/Great teams generate loyalty.I have had season tickets since Coleman Crawford and suffered through his pass the ball for 30 seconds and when the shot clock hits 5 whoever has it shoots.I suffered through Hipshers promising seasons to see a beat down team by year end, with fist fights between players and Hip on the bench. HIP couldn't even make it to the second round of the MAC.How many seasons of students seeing pathetic teams, coaches and seasons will it take to generate fan support in basketball?The students of today will be around in the future, but the program has to keep building momentum. KD is doing a great job. He not only has to win, he has to win BIG, now to see results, otherwise it will take time.I love going to games, MAC basketball is exciting. They are good games. The games are a bargain for great entertainment. But none the less I recall inviting friends to games such as Can't State, Nevada and Toledo and watching the Zips fall short. And they ask, what are you all excited about?The scoreboard not working drives me nuts.Go Zips!

[FearTheRoo]

....win something and people will get "hooked." Win 20 games, play a weak schedule and go to the NIT...and you'll draw 3,300.It isn't rocket science.

Like the football team?