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Week 4: Miami RedHawks

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16 minutes ago, dre22era said:

We are literally a DII team out there and its sad that many of you are basically perfectly fine with being an embarrassment. 

 

Not at all. But it doesn't take a Paul Brown to see what kind of roster Bowden left us.

 

Or what happens when you start a bunch of underclassmen in Division 1 football. Even at the MAC level.

Edited by Spin

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17 minutes ago, dre22era said:

When will yall hold a coach accountable for the players they put on the field. 

 

When they're players HE recruited.

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57 minutes ago, dre22era said:

 

And spare me the depleted roster bullshit. When will yall hold a coach accountable for the players they put on the field. 

Yall act like the MAC is the Big Ten conference and we are out of our element blessed to play in it. 

We should be able to compete with MAC teams vs getting our ass kicked every game. We are literally a DII team out there and its sad that many of you are basically perfectly fine with being an embarrassment. 

       Agreed. Depleted roster is on the coaching staff. They pushed Bowden’s guys out and are continuing to push them out. Players are starting to opt out mid season because of this. 

 

        Arth staff showed up to a decently talented MAC roster that could have won a couple games last year and definitely should have beat U Mass.. the 2019 team had some of the key players who did not graduated that were a part of the Northwestern win and competed with Iowa State & South Carolina. Could you imagine the outcome of a game if this team and staff shared a field with a team like this? Yes the 2018 Team struggled during MAC play that year but many injuries and poor Play calling at the time. They went to the MAC championship the previous year.

 

        Also, Last year they had very talented defensive players and possible NFL talent in Lakos & Davis to build around and somehow still failed to even compete on defense. They ruined these guys NFL hopes & now continue to  point fingers at the Bowden Era.... the Bowden era produced quite a few NFL players and gave many of their players opportunities at the NFL. 

 

So now the question is was the inherited roster really to blame or is the 0-16 record on the coaching staff??? 

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1 hour ago, Spin said:

 

When they're players HE recruited.

This has been a common trend with Coach Arth.  Blaming the roster for performance.

 

FYI, He inherited a very talented Chattanooga roster from Russ Huesman. In Huesman final 4 years with Chattanooga they were very successful and made the FCS playoffs in 2014, 2015, & 2016. 

Russ Huesman record @ Chattanooga 2013-2016

 

2013 8-4

2014 10-4

2015 9-4

2016 9-4

 

Tom Arth record @ Chattanooga 2017-2018

 

2017 3-8

2018 6-5

 

...He must’ve inherited terrible guys from Huesman as well. Huesman inherited a 1-11 team(2008)  at Chattanooga and in his first year in 2009 he went 6-5.

 

Again, I think Tom Arth is a great guy, has a very positive perspective, and I hope the best for him.. hopefully he can turn things around. But it’s not looking good and his staff needs to stop blaming their roster and own up to their 0-16 record. They need to be better.

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11 minutes ago, Zippy1986 said:

       Agreed. Depleted roster is on the coaching staff. They pushed Bowden’s guys out and are continuing to push them out. Players are starting to opt out mid season because of this. 

 

        Arth staff showed up to a decently talented MAC roster that could have won a couple games last year and definitely should have beat U Mass.. the 2019 team had some of the key players who did not graduated that were a part of the Northwestern win and competed with Iowa State & South Carolina. Could you imagine the outcome of a game if this team and staff shared a field with a team like this? Yes the 2018 Team struggled during MAC play that year but many injuries and poor Play calling at the time. They went to the MAC championship the previous year.

 

        Also, Last year they had very talented defensive players and possible NFL talent in Lakos & Davis to build around and somehow still failed to even compete on defense. They ruined these guys NFL hopes & now continue to  point fingers at the Bowden Era.... the Bowden era produced quite a few NFL players and gave many of their players opportunities at the NFL. 

 

So now the question is was the inherited roster really to blame or is the 0-16 record on the coaching staff??? 

We can go back and forth on whether the current situation is because the 'cupboard was bare' when Bowden was let go OR because the current staff has not recruited well and has not used the 'talent' that was left properly. Back in 2004 when Brookhart was brought in after Owens' departure he had some good  talent brought in by Owens, used it and started recruiting some missing pieces. I believe Owens even had at least a .500 season or better in 2003. Certainly that cupboard wasn't bare. J.D. decided not to do a complete tear down. He brought in some transfers and JUCO's and hit the jackpot in 2005. Never quite lived up to expectations after that though. J.D. even admitted he made some mistakes in recruiting after 2005.

Bowden left some decent players on the roster upon his departure. Not enough to win consistently but definitely serviceable at this level. Unlike J.D., Arth has decided to do a teardown and get the underclassmen playing experience. It takes longer. But if it works, or hopefully WHEN it works there should be more consistency on the field. Right now with young players and new assistants at several positions not to mention the crazy season progress has been limited. I am not making excuses for the way Arth chose to rebuild. Right now it looks bad especially on the defensive side of the ball. Depending on what next season is going to look like Arth is going to have to make a choice. Either 'bite the bullet' one more season or bring in a few more JUCO's and transfers to try to kick start it. As I said before in the MAC you eventually have to fill in with those types of recruits to a greater or lesser degree.

I think at the end of this season he will know better which of his guys can play and coach at this level and which ones he will need to replace.

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I cosign 100% with what @Zippy1986 said. 

I totally understand rebuilding but there is NO EXCUSE for going 0-16. NONE 

If you can't coach up a team to get at-least 1 win in the MAC =  you don't deserve to be a $500k Coach 

I honestly believe Youngstown State would a kicked our ass. 

Edited by dre22era
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50 minutes ago, Zippy1986 said:So now the question is was the inherited roster really to blame or is the 0-16 record on the coaching staff??? 


Interesting question. 
 

What does everyone think of Tom and his staff as far as X’s and O’s go? Are they building a good game plan every week and making proper adjustments, but don’t have their players developed and experienced enough?

 

Or, is he lost in space?

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2 hours ago, Spin said:


Interesting question. 
 

What does everyone think of Tom and his staff as far as X’s and O’s go? Are they building a good game plan every week and making proper adjustments, but don’t have their players developed and experienced enough?

 

Or, is he lost in space?

I find the lack of depth/experience/talent/player availability makes it really hard to tell. Ex. are we wasting timeouts/having delay of games because the coaches aren't getting play call in on time or is that a Gibson issue? Are offenses picking apart our zone because we don't have the personnel to line up man on man? Just my opinion...I'd be happy for anyone's more detailed analysis either way to try to persuade me.

Edited by LZIp

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I was all for them canning Bowden, as much for off the field stuff not appropriate for discussion here, as on the field stuff.  I was also of the opinion that we needed to be patient with the rebuild of the program.  My patience is waning.  I don't expect them to be challenging for the MAC title but they should not be getting blown off of the field in each and every game (189-65).  Not only are they getting physically beaten but they're not doing the little things like getting in and out of the huddle efficiently and  lining up correctly.  

 

I expected steady improvement.  A nearby junior college agricultural school hired a coach three years ago and has gone 2-10, 7-6 and 3-1.  Steady improvement.  That's what I want to see.

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"Been said on here multiple times I would hire that HS coach down the street who established a Dynasty at Hoban. 

A HS coach is all we can basically afford right now anyway"

 

My friend I wouldn't hire any high school coach, but I would have given stronger preference to Vince Kehres who at the time was at Mt. Union. We could afford Kehres and he has legit credentials. I especially like the fact that he continued his dad's culture of winning. All the players expected to win at Mount. The staff got the talent and demanded at high work ethic. Kehres inherited a great program, but he went on to make it even better. Look at what a former DIII coach is doing at Buffalo! Their facilities do not match ours and the weather is horrendous. Yet players want to play for coaches who have a vision, can make them better and shows them how to win. Buffalo is doing that now and I believe Kehres could have done that for us. Coaching is always the key to winning programs.  

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8 hours ago, Spin said:


Interesting question. 
 

What does everyone think of Tom and his staff as far as X’s and O’s go? Are they building a good game plan every week and making proper adjustments, but don’t have their players developed and experienced enough?

 

Or, is he lost in space?

I'll Bite. Yesterday there was an interesting post from Palmyra 19 discussing the quality and sophistication of DIII coaching. P19 said he was a former DIII coach and he had high regard for the coaches at that level. He went on to say that sometimes they could not improve the talent level overnight but they were more than willing to scheme up the game plan to negate the other team and play to his team's strengths. To me that is the embodiment of coaching. You are expected to find a way to win. With lousy talent that may not happen, but you still try. I have only seen enlightened scheming from this staff in one game over the last 16. That was Ohio U, and only on offense. 

 

So can Arth and company coach? I don't know as I have seen little evidence of it over 15 games. I want to be wrong on this. I want him to succeed. Yet what I saw against Miami causes me to ask questions. And I think that is appropriate. 

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11 hours ago, 72 Roo said:

I'll Bite. Yesterday there was an interesting post from Palmyra 19 discussing the quality and sophistication of DIII coaching. P19 said he was a former DIII coach and he had high regard for the coaches at that level. He went on to say that sometimes they could not improve the talent level overnight but they were more than willing to scheme up the game plan to negate the other team and play to his team's strengths. To me that is the embodiment of coaching. You are expected to find a way to win. With lousy talent that may not happen, but you still try. I have only seen enlightened scheming from this staff in one game over the last 16. That was Ohio U, and only on offense. 

 

So can Arth and company coach? I don't know as I have seen little evidence of it over 15 games. I want to be wrong on this. I want him to succeed. Yet what I saw against Miami causes me to ask questions. And I think that is appropriate. 

Great post 72.  From an X's and O's standpoint I don't think there is any difference between DI and DIII.  On offense, we played match ups at DIII just like the big guys - what formations, motions, shifts, alignments, etc. can I employ to create match ups that are favorable for me.  How do I create conflict for the defense?  On defense how do I make sure we maintain gap coverage, perimeter leverage, cover the field, exploit offensive tendencies, disguise looks, etc.  In fact, the zone read offense was created by Rich Rodriguez at the DII level.

 

With 11 guys on O and over 100 years of football history as reference, there are only so many ways to do this.  On D, you can only line up 11 (even thgouh at times I wish I could have played 13) so many way and still be sound.  

 

As you noted, many times we had to coach what we had to fit into the schemes we ran.  We tried to recruit to needs and to the scheme like DI guys do, or at least should do.  It's not all about 4 and 5 star guys, it's about guys that fit into what you're looking to run and where the gaps are.  Anyway, often there were glaring gaps in the talent level that forced us to tweak the existing packages to fit our talent and give us a punchers chance to win.  As noted - that's coaching.  Certain teams we played could line up in a 4-3 cover 2 and play it all game and kick our buts because they were physically that much better.  The old Miami Hurricanes teams were that way.

 

Do I think Arth can coach - yes I do.  Do I think Arth is CEO enough to run a DI program?  I don't know, I haven't followed UA long enough to know.

 

I will concede from an overall program standpoint (the kissing babies kind of stuff of the field) is different - has to be because DI is in reality a business and you might need a better CEO than coach at this level.  A guy that is smart enough to get the right guys around him and ultimately can recruit by getting the RIGHT kind of kid to buy into the program/vision.  My first job I worked for guys who were DI coordinators and moved down as they got up in age.  They didn't miss the "crap" that went along with DI football (fund raising, community stuff, recruiting) and could concentrate more on coaching.   

 

I admit, I only started watch UA this year so my sample size is small.  From a scheme standpoint, I don't see anything that makes me terrified with what Arth is doing.  To be honest, I don't see an abundance of talent on this team, especially on D.  You have guys playing out of position by design.  That tells me there is no one else that can do it - talent is thin.  What bothered me, at at least this past week, is the stuff where the operation isn't clean. Couple that with the fact there didn't seem to be a ton of "want to" last Saturday either.  That's on both players and coaches but ultimately the coaches have the power to fix it and if they don't then that's on them.  The getting lined up issue Coach Arth mentioned is inexcusable - but correctable.  We would make sure to get this point across - as part of our extended conditioning this week - until the point sunk in.  Get out of the huddle crisply, get lined up efficiently.  As basic as that seems can't be taken for granted.  

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A lot talk about DIII coaches and giving them credit for Xs and Os. Surely I'm not the only one who remembers what Arth did at John Carroll. Definitely the only reason he was hired at UT-C and probably the only reason he's here.

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I always appreciated the line that coach Bowden repeated often "We need to find a way to win at AKRON."

I feel coach Arth is trying to figuring that out. I hope he does..soon. 

 

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8 minutes ago, LZIp said:

A lot talk about DIII coaches and giving them credit for Xs and Os. Surely I'm not the only one who remembers what Arth did at John Carroll. Definitely the only reason he was hired at UT-C and probably the only reason he's here.

+1.  Mighty Mount Union was glad to see him move on from John Carroll.  I have to keep reminding myself of that, because I was pulling for Larry Williams to give Kehres some serious consideration.

 

Edited by Blue & Gold
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15 hours ago, 72 Roo said:

 

"Been said on here multiple times I would hire that HS coach down the street who established a Dynasty at Hoban. 

A HS coach is all we can basically afford right now anyway"

 

My friend I wouldn't hire any high school coach, but I would have given stronger preference to Vince Kehres who at the time was at Mt. Union. We could afford Kehres and he has legit credentials. I especially like the fact that he continued his dad's culture of winning. All the players expected to win at Mount. The staff got the talent and demanded at high work ethic. Kehres inherited a great program, but he went on to make it even better. Look at what a former DIII coach is doing at Buffalo! Their facilities do not match ours and the weather is horrendous. Yet players want to play for coaches who have a vision, can make them better and shows them how to win. Buffalo is doing that now and I believe Kehres could have done that for us. Coaching is always the key to winning programs.  

Edited by dre22era

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OK Dre, UB's facilities are better than us in their locker room, players lounge and weight room. They are awesome. I wish we had them. I like our indoor field house and stadium better. Now, not even you, with all your fantastic powers, can make their weather better than ours!?️?️?️

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1 hour ago, 72 Roo said:

OK Dre, UB's facilities are better than us in their locker room, players lounge and weight room. They are awesome. I wish we had them. I like our indoor field house and stadium better. Now, not even you, with all your fantastic powers, can make their weather better than ours!?️?️?️

 

Offsetting Buffalo's worse weather is the fact that the area is much more sophisticated than here; every one there speaks both American and Canadian.

 

 

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Edited by Zipmeister
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2 hours ago, 72 Roo said:

OK Dre, UB's facilities are better than us in their locker room, players lounge and weight room. They are awesome. I wish we had them. I like our indoor field house and stadium better. Now, not even you, with all your fantastic powers, can make their weather better than ours!?️?️?️

Yes we definitely have a better stadium and field house but lets not act like Akron's weather is any better than Buffalo. 
Both cities have shitty weather and Akron is literally surrounded by orange construction cones and a condemned expressway (MLK). 

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UB has a distinct financial advantage over other MAC schools in terms of how intercollegiate athletics are funded and accounted for.  I read somewhere that under state law they can fund and operate athletic facilities using state capital funds, whereas we cannot do so in Ohio.  Results in about a $3M advantage than can go into recruiting and frills.

 

 

 

 

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