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2022-2023 Zips Women's Basketball


LoyalZIP

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1 hour ago, NWAkron said:

what in the world are you talking about?  

 

Apparently, the administration got outrebounded by 11 boards and turned the ball over 18 times.

 

In 40 minutes, the Zips had 13 field goals and 18 turnovers.  They were outscored by 30 in the paint.

Edited by clarkwgriswold
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3 hours ago, Gozips10 said:

I hope you’re referring to the administration who decides with 6 games left to tank the season. The week these student athletes have had this… is exactly what this administration  wanted. 

I'm in the dark here (nothing new!). What does "The week these student athletes have had..." Reference?  All I knew this week was a win over EMU.  What else occurred?  And how did the administration decide to tank?  And why would they anyway?  The same starters, no real changes that I'm aware of, anyone know?  Today however was a disaster....

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21 hours ago, Gozips10 said:

I hope you’re referring to the administration who decides with 6 games left to tank the season. The week these student athletes have had this… is exactly what this administration  wanted. 

I guess when the team is displaying incompetence despite having reasonable, but not great, talent some of our fans have to blame something other than the coaches and players. This administration has funded this program in the top half of the MAC and given it all it needed to play winning, if not championship, basketball. 

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2 hours ago, 72 Roo said:

I guess when the team is displaying incompetence despite having reasonable, but not great, talent some of our fans have to blame something other than the coaches and players. This administration has funded this program in the top half of the MAC and given it all it needed to play winning, if not championship, basketball. 

 

It does have the sound of an angry parent or staff member.

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If you’re going to make a non-descriptive accusation like that, why even be anonymous about it? Without any evidence it’s just more BS excuses. This administration is far from perfect and has plenty of flaws. I can’t even begin to think about how they could have caused that result yesterday, a beatdown we haven’t seen anything like in 25 years. Until somebody gives actual evidence and facts to support these “claims,” it’s just a pile of crap. And it’s really weak, considering it’s only the administration’s fault now that the team is losing as opposed to when they were on a tear. 

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52 minutes ago, LoyalZIP said:

If you’re going to make a non-descriptive accusation like that, why even be anonymous about it? Without any evidence it’s just more BS excuses. This administration is far from perfect and has plenty of flaws. I can’t even begin to think about how they could have caused that result yesterday, a beatdown we haven’t seen anything like in 25 years. Until somebody gives actual evidence and facts to support these “claims,” it’s just a pile of crap. And it’s really weak, considering it’s only the administration’s fault now that the team is losing as opposed to when they were on a tear. 

 

It was a hell of a first post.  LOL.

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@LoyalZIP is right.  This post has bothered me for far longer than it should, because it makes no sense.  How could the admin possibly benefit from this?  I've been a critic of AD Guthrie, but he has publicly supported this team, at the games and engaging the athletes and fans.  If Charles wants to not renew the staff, he doesn't need to manufacture a reason.  And how does an AD or department "tank" the team anyway?  What benefit to the school would this bring?  If they fail to make the tourney, that's a black eye.  These kind of losses hurts recruiting as does not making the tournament.  This type of ending to the season almost ensures talent like Bass will enter the portal.  Attendance already is abysmal, and this ensures zero interest in the last two home games.  As LoyalZIP points out, admin has flaws but one of them is not being stupid.  And as I said waaay earlier, if they wanted to "tank" then why did we win Wednesday night?  Arrrrggghhhhh!  It makes no sense.

 

Edited by zippy-claws
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5 minutes ago, zippy-claws said:

@LoyalZIP is right.  This post has bothered me for far longer than it should, because it makes no sense.  How could the admin possibly benefit from this?  I've been a critic of AD Guthrie, but he has publicly supported this team, at the games and engaging the athletes and fans.  If Charles wants to not renew the staff, he doesn't need to manufacture a reason.  And how does an AD or department "tank" the team anyway?  What benefit to the school would this bring?  If they fail to make the tourney, that's a black eye.  These kind of losses hurts recruiting as does not making the tournament.  This type of ending to the season almost ensures talent like Bass will enter the portal.  Attendance already is abysmal, and this ensures zero interest in the last two home games.  As LoyalZIP points out, admin has flaws but one of them is not being stupid.  And as I said waaay earlier, if they wanted to "tank" then why did we win Wednesday night?  Arrrrggghhhhh!  It makes no sense.

 

We are probably giving way too much air time to what is often called an "internet troll."  But whoever it is certainly provoked conversation and helped crystallize amongst us why this staff is a failure.  Jackson lost me with the coaching in stilettos.

Edited by NWAkron
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1 hour ago, NWAkron said:

One could argue that it was the Larry Williams administration that say women's basketball as a distraction and thus let Kest linger, didn't make an effort to find a new coach, and settled for Kest's assistant.

 

 


Williams was teammates with Coach Jackson’s father-in-law for a season with the Browns. I think that connection made the late hire back in 2018 that much easier. I know Terry Weigand was pretty interested in the job. BG had already grabbed Fralick from Ashland who would have been the top candidate for just about any MAC school. Coach Jackson was probably the best fit at the time and got a lot out of her first two teams with limited talent. Had a terrible COVID year, and then struck gold last year. This year is a pretty good summation of the tenure so far, I hate to say. 

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A lot of people posting with opinions and partial truths. I don’t have a daughter on this team or any other teams at Akron. I’m a season ticket holder for women’s basketball for the last 7 seasons. Some actual facts about this program and their head coach. She’s is the lowest paid coach in the MAC. So all this talk about the incredible support from the administration is based on what? So they are the third highest budget for Akron sports? What’s that say about Akron if she’s the lowest paid coach in the MAC? Do we think that’s going to help us recruit a higher caliber coach?(I did my own fact checking and the posting about chartered flights was also a stretch. They chartered for the NIU game because it was a week day and they are still students! A far cry from what they were trying to get you to believe)  Speaking of the coach, this program has only had 12 500 or above season. Even if they lose the rest of the season, Coach Jackson will own 4 of them in her in her 5 years as head coach. That includes the COVID year. Charles, who likes to say this is a business and is probably one of the people on here, seems to think that 4 500 or better seasons from the lowest paid coach isn’t good business? This program has improved every year. Recruiting has been solid and some good talent was heading this way next season. Based on what we’ve seen we could have had the winningest coach this program has ever had.  In addition several players were sticking around. This team was building and making a run. I’m sure the coach knew that Charles was looking for more than what this season was looking like before making a decision on her future. She did her best to earn an extension and last week he let her know she wasn’t being renewed. She told her players on Thursday. She owed that to them. They are athletes that came to play for her. Decisions they were making were based on her being their coach. If you think that a group of 19-21 year old ladies weren’t affected emotionally about their own future by this news you’re just oblivious. So yes, Charles tanked this team and the game against our rivals. He may be a lot of things but I don’t think he’s stupid. Three won’t be back for sure. I’d bet that Reagan hits the portal button. She’s too good to be on a rebuilding team that will take several seasons to rebound from this. So it was fun watching a really good coach build a program that went from fifty people a game watching into a competitive team in a very competitive MAC league with some really good attendance.  But there’s a reason Akron has only had 12 500 or better seasons in its history and this decision shows they don’t care if they have 12 more. Charles will be gone in a few years, like every AD and President before him. Us fans, the ones that support these programs year after year just got kicked in the gut, again, because some outsider came in and thinks he’s a business man. 

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1 hour ago, LoyalZIP said:


Williams was teammates with Coach Jackson’s father-in-law for a season with the Browns. I think that connection made the late hire back in 2018 that much easier. I know Terry Weigand was pretty interested in the job. BG had already grabbed Fralick from Ashland who would have been the top candidate for just about any MAC school. Coach Jackson was probably the best fit at the time and got a lot out of her first two teams with limited talent. Had a terrible COVID year, and then struck gold last year. This year is a pretty good summation of the tenure so far, I hate to say. 

No way to run a railroad.

I prefer how they handled it with the men's program:  hire the man who crushed your dreams...twice!

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Facts! Yay!

 

If true, that is a shame. I was hoping she could turn it around, but I don’t see it coming. The way they’ve played since the end of the 3rd quarter against BG tells the story. The lack of an extension last year was likely due to the fact that the admin wanted to see if the program could sustain success without the best player in the league. And it hasn’t. 
 

I personally have always been on the side of thinking coach deserves at least another year, but I’m also aware we aren’t running a charity around here. WBB exists to be a winner. That doesn’t mean handing out pity extensions and congratulations for being “better than the worst” in program history. It be that way sometimes. 

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Nobody would disagree with the BG analogy. As I stated earlier I’m a fan. So yes, I too am disappointed. Not sure what could’ve been had she been offered another year or two. How that would’ve affected this season. Still the best coach we’ve had. Now, again as a fan, we are screwed for at least 2-3 seasons. Probably more. Keeping a coach that has a proven record, one that includes the COVID year, that is the lowest paid in your league, isn’t charity. Maybe find a way to help them.  

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7 minutes ago, Basketballfan1 said:

Nobody would disagree with the BG analogy. As I stated earlier I’m a fan. So yes, I too am disappointed. Not sure what could’ve been had she been offered another year or two. How that would’ve affected this season. Still the best coach we’ve had. Now, again as a fan, we are screwed for at least 2-3 seasons. Probably more. Keeping a coach that has a proven record, one that includes the COVID year, that is the lowest paid in your league, isn’t charity. Maybe find a way to help them.  


That’s a little unfair to coach Kest, the only head coach that has ever won a MAC title. Her top 3 teams would all run any of coach Jackson’s teams off the floor. Excuses of pay mean nothing. She’s a basketball coach. She’s not a paycheck. The track record speaks for itself. If you go back and watch the 18-19 team’s games, there are a ton of similarities, with many of them being negatives. Struggle closing games, inconsistent shooting from “shooters,” lack of on-court leadership, out of shape (getting worse), nothing from the bench. 
 

As someone who thought she should have been extended following last year, I can now see why that wasn’t so. They turned the damn ball over 23 times in a game last week. And got blown out by NIU. And blown out at Ball State. And blew a lead against a bad WMU team. If you want to chalk up the embarrassment at Kent to the admin allegedly telling her she wasn’t going to be extended—fine. But there have been plenty of displays of ineptitude all year in areas where there shouldn’t be. Does administration perhaps need to take a long look in the mirror at how they want to improve the program? Absolutely! Does that mean this is a bad and terrible and destructive move? No! I want to compete for titles. I want to be Felicia’s Buffalo teams. Sue’s CMU teams. We are a long ways from there right now. Would a new coach guarantee anything better? No! But it may be worth a shot, as the program seems to be plateauing. 

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6 hours ago, LoyalZIP said:


That’s a little unfair to coach Kest, the only head coach that has ever won a MAC title. Her top 3 teams would all run any of coach Jackson’s teams off the floor. Excuses of pay mean nothing. She’s a basketball coach. She’s not a paycheck. The track record speaks for itself. If you go back and watch the 18-19 team’s games, there are a ton of similarities, with many of them being negatives. Struggle closing games, inconsistent shooting from “shooters,” lack of on-court leadership, out of shape (getting worse), nothing from the bench.

The Kest team that won the MAC title was awesome.  They were like 92% from the FT line.

Good point on the pay check:  so Jackson would have coached better if she were paid more?  

 

We are all very fortunate to have this forum that allows Zips fans to vent frustrations, share insight, and discuss these issues.  BTW...the discussion around the women's program is much more constructive than the vitriol circa 2017 (and that wasn't a firing).

Edited by NWAkron
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We want them to win. We all want championships. But this isn’t a professional sports team where the players are on contracts and they’re waiting on a new head coach. No one disagrees that this team fell apart after that loss to BG. If this were the pros under your philosophy they would just bring in a new coach. But this is literally throwing the baby out with the bath water. The entire staff will be gone. Most players will leave. All the talent is gone. A new coach will have to start from the bottom and build a completely new program. It’s a total dismantling of the program. It’s a bit extreme. 


Loyal, to your point on Kest: 12 years. 5 above 500 seasons. Happy for a title. Jackson: 5 years. 4 above 500 and the COVID year. If you think that what the admin was putting them though behind the scenes didn’t affect some of this outcome then what’s the point. 
 

NW, I don’t think that higher pay would’ve made her a better coach. Real support and job security may have. Again, college is about recruiting. These young ladies made their biggest life decisions to come play for HER.  When there’s behind the scenes drama we don’t see it affects what we see on the court. 
 

Charles came in and wanted to get rid of a winning coach. That’s it. He actually said to me that he could get more ticket sales at women’s volleyball if he gave them some of wbb budget to them. He’s a business man. 
 

loyal, you won’t have to worry about beating any of those teams. Under Charles you’ll never see another competitive team. 
 

 

 

 

 

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29 minutes ago, Blue & Gold said:

@Basketballfan1, good stuff. Thank you for your insights & contributions. However this plays out we're all still 1Akron, so please don't be a stranger.  Go Zips!

 

Exactly!  It's refreshing to see an adult conversation, even between people who may not see eye to eye.  Thoughtful conversations are far too few on this kind of forum.

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Kest took over one of the worst programs in the country at a time where it was essentially impossible to rebuild a program overnight. There is no comparison to what she accomplished vs. what coach Jackson has accomplished. 
 

I guess the thing I’m hung up on is it being the end of the world by cleaning house and starting from scratch. In these 5 years, we’ve seen this program play in 2 MAC tournament games in Cleveland with 2 losses as the 8 seed at home. Then a last place (or close) finish in the COVID year that was also the COVID year for everyone else. Last year a clear outlier, and even then they didn’t even sniff a title. Should we just accept being an average at best MAC program? That’s not why I buy tickets and donate. 

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Thanks to @Basketballfan1 for giving us a run down on their take of what has occurred this past week.  As stated above, finally some facts to discuss rather than innuendo.  I too am a season ticket holder and go to the games when I'm back in Akron and watch the others thanks to ESPN+.  The points all made above are valid, and as @clarkwgriswold said it's a civil discussion and appreciated.  I was sky high on this team after the Non-conference schedule, although admitting it was against a lot of weaker teams.  The Cleveland State game set off alarm bells in my head, but then we won the early "should win" games in the MAC and I got comfortable.  The BG game collapse was the beginning of the end, and the complete blow-out vs. Ball State on the road made the deficiencies even more glaring.  From there till today looked more like a team tanking as opposed to the admin tanking.  Sometimes when a team learns their leadership is leaving, on its own or due to a firing/non-renewing, those teams respond with a "we'll show 'em" attitude, and go out and play hard and send the coach off with a positive note.  This team started shutting down instead.  Sadly.  Not excusing the AD for his handling of the situation, just stating that the turn of events that got us here started way before last week in Kent.

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