[2017-2018]

I'm not sure that those two are good A10 players myself, but I do know a number of coaches who are high on Hughes. As for TDM stepping up in leagues will cause an even greater size disadvantage- but I am a fan of his and I would bet on him finding ways to be successful. At the end of the day their coaches must believe in them and I thing the sit out year will benefit them both tremendously. As for kids transferring and following their coach, I have always enjoyed seeing that (Scoonie Penn following Jim O'Brien to OSU). To me it shows the unique bond that players can have with coaches. 

[John Groce Officially Hired]

10 hours ago, akronzips71 said:

 

I have to agree with you. Duquesne is not really much of a step up. Stronger conference, but no winning tradition at all. Someone with KD's resume (less the skeleton) should have been gone to a major major winning program long ago.

While I agree that Duquesne isn't a major step up (due to their performance the last 40 years), it certainly is a pretty significant step up in conference.  Also I'm not so sure that his past has really held him back all that much- the thing that has held him back the most would probably be that he hasn't floated his name for positions and been actively looking to leave UA.

 

And whether everyone chooses to believe KDs statement that his family's history at Duquesne was a major factor in his move is up to you. I however strongly believe that KD was not looking to "bolt" Akron, but rather he came to a point in time where he had given a lot to UA and there was a new challenge on the horizon. Akron even used to have a recruiting mail out featuring a old Duquesne team picture mentioning how KD is from a basketball family. The family connection to Duquesne is and always has been very important to KD.

[Search For The Next Head Coach]

4 minutes ago, Captain Kangaroo said:

If you asked me how many NCAA Tournament games Dambrot would have won if he coached at Akron another 13 years...I'd say 0.

If I had to put money on it I would say 0 too  

[Search For The Next Head Coach]

3 minutes ago, Zipgrad01 said:

You can make an uneducated guess, but history guarantees me how many NCAA tourney games we would win with Dambrot.... ZERO!!

 

I want nothing to do with Keith Dambrot or any of his assistants. He wanted a divorce and I am gladly giving it to him. 

What is uneducated about it? All I have said about Groce is that for those of you expecting NCAA tournament wins you might want to dial it back

[Search For The Next Head Coach]

I am sure that Groce will be successful (to some extent), but I do think that some of you may want to temper your expectations. Especially if your barometer for success is NCAA tournament wins. Yes Groce won 3 NCAA tournament games at OU (as well as 1 at Illinois as a 7 seed) but if you were to ask me how many NCAA Tournament games Groce will win at Akron in the next 5 years I would say 0, and if you were to ask how many MAC Tournaments he will win I would say 1 or 2 tops. 

 

Basically I am just saying you might want to roll back expectations- it is incredibly hard to win in the NCAA tournament (especially as a low or mid major) so to expect that would be a little overoptimistic. Hope for it, yes. But to expect it because of his run at OU would seem to be a stretch. 

[Search For The Next Head Coach]

7 minutes ago, Balsy said:

It looks like we're about to head down the road of "Dambrot built teams/schemed around winning the MAC regular season, while Groce and other coaches build/schemed to win the MAC Tournament" discussion.

Which would be a good discussion if it weren't for the fact that during his time Dambrot took Akron to more NCAA Tournaments than any other school in the league (Actually tied with Kent)

[Search For The Next Head Coach]

10 minutes ago, Captain Kangaroo said:

I think you also felt Rick McFadden should be the next Zips coach?

 

Compare McFadden's resume to Groce's.

 

McFadden - Akron assistant.

Groce - Butler, NC State, Ohio State assistant. Head coach - Ohio and Illinois.

 

In the 5 years Groce made the post-season (not including this season, where an interim coach finished the NIT), he's won at least one tournament game 4 times. Had he coached in the NIT this year, it would have been 5-out-of-6 seasons that he not only made the post-season, but advanced beyond the first round. 

 

MAC regular season titles are for Dambrot. Groce has consistently won where Dambrot rarely did...in the post season. 

 

I love the Lolla/Porter parallel drawn by MDZip. I think the Zips upgraded with Groce. 

Yes I would have been happy with McFadden, but mostly wanted someone who had been a part of the success during the Dambrot era.

 

I have not denied that Groce had post season success at OU, I just don't believe that it is something that he can replicate (hopefully he can). But going off his track record it would be hard to imagine him having more regular season success than what Coach Dambrot had. Now some posters on here don't particularly value the regular season championship, and that's fine. I however think winning the MAC regular season is priority #1 every year 

 

[Search For The Next Head Coach]

6 minutes ago, Captain Kangaroo said:

I think one can spin the numbers to suit whatever side of the fence they'd like.

 

I see a lot of people harping on Groce's 2011-12 3rd place finish in the MAC East. But they ignore the fact that he won 29 games that season. Dambrot won 22.

 

People say OU got lucky, winning the MAC tourney when the Zips missed an open 15-footer. But they ignore the 2009 NCAA-qualifying Zips, who were bailed out by Brett McKnight's miracle save & toss to Humpty for a buzzer-beating three that saved Dambrot from losing to the #12 seed Toledo in the opening round.

 

See what you want, I guess.

There is really nothing to spin with the MAC record, it is what it is. I am a big believer in conference record because it is common opponents and it is against programs playing on an equal playing field. 

 

As for luck, my point has been that there is some degree of luck that goes into this, for everyone! So while Dambrot had several breaks go both for and against him he consistently put his teams in position. My concern with Groce is that his league record over his career would indicate that he might have trouble consistently putting us in position to be successful.

[Search For The Next Head Coach]

1 hour ago, Captain Kangaroo said:

Someone posted a comparison of the comparative records of Groce and Dambrot while Groce was in the MAC (2009-10 thru 2011-12). Dambrot had a slight edge in overall wins. Groce had a "blow-Dambrot-out-of-the-water," landslide edge in post season success. It was also surmised that Dambrot's overall win total advantage may have been bolstered by a comparatively weak OOC schedule.

 

Someone once called Dan Hipsher "Bobby Knight, without the wins."

 

Groce could be "Keith Dambrot, WITH the wins"? Only those pesky post-season wins of course.

 

I am not sure I would say slight edge... MAC record: Groce 34-30, Dambrot 44-20

[Search For The Next Head Coach]

I hope Groce is very successful at UA, but as I noted in a post earlier postseason success is about catching lightning in a bottle (especially at the mid to low major level) so don't expect that because he won three NCAA tournament games while at OU that he will be able to do the same here. He was also only able to go 34-30 against the MAC, and while at Illinois he was only 37-53 against his league. Again, there is no debating that he has accomplished some great things, but league record is also very telling for a coach because it shows how you do against programs with similar facilities, budget, location etc..

[Search For The Next Head Coach]

I have never before considered posting on zipsnation, in fact I rarely ever visit the site (only occasionally to see what fans are complaining about). But after reading some of these conversations since the MAC tournament I finally had to register to make a post. I have plenty to say and doubt I can effectively communicate everything I would like to say, but I will give it a try:

 

The first thing I can't believe I haven't seen is people wanting us to hire from within. Coach Dambrot just finished an unparalleled run of success all while pretty much keeping his staff in tact- so to me the obvious thing to do is promote one of his long time assistant coaches (Rick McFadden). Would this guarantee success? No, not necessarily, but it seems more likely to me that he would continue to be successful than someone else. For those of you who want "something new" I'm not sure why? I mean if it's a more exciting playing style that you are looking for, ok fine- Just look at some other programs in the league who play what you may think is "more exciting basketball" (Central, Toledo, or even BG who wants to play fast). Now look at their history of success, it doesn't look anything like what Coach Dambrot and his staff have done. If you are looking for something more, once again I understand. We all would like to win MORE MAC championships, and win in the NCAA tournament (Nobody wanted that more than Coach D). But please remember that we DID win more than anyone else in the conference- Just look at the last 9 years: 3 MAC Tournament Championships and 4 MAC Regular Season Championships. And as for more we were obviously a shot here or there from winning more Tournament Championships, which then gives you more opportunities in the Big Dance where it is all about matchups. As for the NCAA tournament our best chance was lost when our best team had just lost its starting point guard, and then Walsh and Forsythe got the flu the night before the game. Luck is a huge part of NCAA tournament runs (buzzer beaters, injuries, officiating, or matchups) as a fan all you can ask is to put yourself in position to win. And Coach Dambrot and his staff have done that better than anyone else, so why not keep the same old boring 20 wins, regular season championship, tournament finals and then roll the dice? 

 

The next thing that I see is complaining about the schedule, whether it be about the way Coach D scheduled, of the way you want the next coach to schedule. Once again, I understand- I would rather see a few more tough games and a few less Ark Pine Pluffs. But the reality is our schedule has provided opportunities against high major teams (all on the road) as well as quality mid major teams. If you want a tougher schedule it will mean going on the road and giving up home games- and I have recently seen some of you bring up Coles Miami teams and their scheduling. It is often mentioned how those tough games get you ready for tournament play, and one person said of those Miami teams "They were always prepared for tournament play, MAC or NCAA". Well guess what if you look at the previous paragraph our "soft schedule" that you complain about has gotten us prepared BETTER THAN ANYONE in the league for the MAC tournament.

 

Now finally for those of you thinking that Akron is a good job- IT IS NOT. Now I am sure that we will be able to hire a good coach who has good experiences on their resume, but not because of anything about our program. Coaches will want this job because it offers them a chance to be a head coach, or because it offers a pay raise, but not because it offers more potential than other schools in the league (look at facilities, financial situations etc). Akron has won, not because we have more to offer, but because we had a better coach/coaching staff, so why not keep it going with someone who not only knows the blueprint, but has helped design and implement it?