Strickland's message to UA

[ZachTheZip]

http://www.ohio.com/news/top_stories/9144381.htmlGovernor brings message to UA He's touring the state with his education plan By Beacon Journal staff report Published on Tuesday, Aug 14, 2007 Gov. Ted Strickland hopes to present a 10-year master plan next year for the fledgling University System of Ohio, he said during brief remarks at the University of Akron Monday.In the new blueprint, Ohio's public universities and community colleges will be encouraged to pursue initiatives that distinguish them. Strickland stopped short of saying he would ask some colleges to abandon programs to avoid duplication and reduce costs.''That would be premature,'' he said to an audience of about 75 political and education leaders in the Goodyear Polymer Center.Strickland's visit was one of several he's taking to explain his proposal to Ohio's 13 public universities and 24 community colleges.He emphasized the need for collaboration and the need for STEM that stands for science, technology, engineering and math programs to make the state more competitive in a global economy.UA Provost Beth Stroble said the university ''was doing STEM before STEM was cool.''She outlined steps UA is taking to expand STEM education, including the Governor's Summer Honors Institute for Gifted Students. The 16th annual residential camp for 60 students pursuing biology, computer science and engineering technology was held last week.Strickland said he found it a ''little troubling'' that some fear STEM studies would come at the cost of the arts. Students should have access to all kinds of learning, he said.''Do not let the world squeeze you into a mold,'' the former minister said, loosely quoting Romans 12:2.UA President Luis Proenza vowed to ''set the pace'' for the governor's education program. But that didn't stop him from taking a cheerful swipe at other Ohio universities.He said UA is to Northeast Ohio what Ohio State is to Central Ohio and the University of Cincinnati is to Southwest Ohio.''May Ohio State learn to keep its place,'' he said to laughter.

[UAZipster0305]

I can't imagine a better leader for UA than Dr. Proenza! Here's to hoping that he stays with the University for another 5+ years...

[Bow_Down_To_Your_Flagship]

I can't imagine a better leader for UA than Dr. Proenza! Here's to hoping that he stays with the University for another 5+ years...

Please. The man's a clown. In one minute, he arrogantly boasts about "setting the pace" for the Governor's higher education system and in the next takes a childish cheap shot at the university that Strickland and Fingerhut have already formally designated as the system's "flagship." Considering that Fingerhut personally helped recruit Gordon Gee to leave Vanderbilt and take a 300K paycut to come back to Ohio State, who do you think is going to "set the pace" on these changes?Proenza represents the tired and failed higher education policies of the Jim Rhodes era where every university felt free to try and turn itself into a mini-Ohio State. That's why Ohio funds 9 Ph.D programs in history (despite 6 of them being ranked in the bottom third nationally), why Ohio funds 5 law schools (despite being a huge annual net exporter of law school graduates), why Ohio funds 6 medical schools (more than California). While Ohio State has pretty much laid those policies to rest over the last quarter century, their last, lingering vestiges are about to formally be snuffed out by Ted Strickland and Eric Fingerhut.Akron is not, nor will it ever be, Ohio State. Care to compare undergraduate admissions? Undergraduate rankings? Association of American Universities membership? Graduate rankings? indicators of faculty quality such as National Academy members and Guggenheim Fellows? Proenza can spout his delusional "no quality differences" schtick all he wants, but he only makes himself look foolish.

[zen]

I can't imagine a better leader for UA than Dr. Proenza!  Here's to hoping that he stays with the University for another 5+ years...

Please. The man's a clown. In one minute, he arrogantly boasts about "setting the pace" for the Governor's higher education system and in the next takes a childish cheap shot at the university that Strickland and Fingerhut have already formally designated as the system's "flagship." Considering that Fingerhut personally helped recruit Gordon Gee to leave Vanderbilt and take a 300K paycut to come back to Ohio State, who do you think is going to "set the pace" on these changes?Proenza represents the tired and failed higher education policies of the Jim Rhodes era where every university felt free to try and turn itself into a mini-Ohio State. That's why Ohio funds 9 Ph.D programs in history (despite 6 of them being ranked in the bottom third nationally), why Ohio funds 5 law schools (despite being a huge annual net exporter of law school graduates), why Ohio funds 6 medical schools (more than California). While Ohio State has pretty much laid those policies to rest over the last quarter century, their last, lingering vestiges are about to formally be snuffed out by Ted Strickland and Eric Fingerhut.Akron is not, nor will it ever be, Ohio State. Care to compare undergraduate admissions? Undergraduate rankings? Association of American Universities membership? Graduate rankings? indicators of faculty quality such as National Academy members and Guggenheim Fellows? Proenza can spout his delusional "no quality differences" schtick all he wants, but he only makes himself look foolish.

Wow, so what you are saying is, let's just pack it in. Right?Give up and bow down to cowtown U!And here, we were talking (in another thread) how Akron Mayor is worried about his future relevance in this city, when it looks like his fears may be correct, because all you gotta do is look at Cowlumbus. Not only is that school affecting the politics of the city, they obviously have designs on squashing competition from the rest of the state.What are you guys afraid of?Not only is fungerhut an "anti-competition" nutjob, but now Strickland too.

[Bow_Down_To_Your_Flagship]

Nobody is saying that Akron (or any of the other regional colleges) should lose those programs that have a national reputation and bring real value to the state, but in a world of limited higher education resources, every university should not be allowed to add on unnecessary, redundant graduate and research programs in some vain attempt to turn itself into Ohio State. I think Akron is a fine university and one that serves an important role in NE Ohio, that doesn't mean that it has a right to appropriate the role for which Ohio State was founded. The problem with Jim Rhodes is that he was around for so long that many Ohioans came to view these "everyone is equal" policies as the norm rather than the break with history that they truly represented.Do you really think that such a competitve system is good? That funding 9 history Ph.D programs is proper when Ohio can't properly fund undergraduate education to the point that it's subsequently ranked 47th among the states for affordable college tuiton? All so Louis Proenza can puff up his chest and say, "there's no difference between us and Ohio State." I'll venture that even the most loyal Can't State, OU or UA alums care far more about how much it'll cost to send their kids to school there than they do about unnecessary graduate programs, and that is why Strickland will succeed with these changes.The Plain Dealer, in their editorial on the subject, put it perfectly. It's time for the state's colleges to put the overall needs of the state ahead of their own narrow institutional egos.

[Zips fan]

Listen On-your-knees-for-your-flagship, if you don't have something better to do than monitor speeches by The University of Akron's president and post on a Zips athletics board you need to broaden your horizons. I am not going to look up any stats but I can tell you this much, I have no interest in OSU. I was happy with my time at The Univeristy of Akron feel that they do a great job in preparing students for the future. I am happy that Dr. Prozena is the president and feel that he has done a great job of promoting Akron. You may have your OSU pride, but not everyone in Ohio does. Many students choose to go to Akron, Can't, Miami, BGSU, UT, Ohio rather than OSU. I don't need to insult OSU to know that Akron is a much better place.

[zen]

Do you really think that such a competitve system is good?  That funding 9 history Ph.D programs is proper when Ohio can't properly fund undergraduate education to the point that it's subsequently ranked 47th among the states for affordable college tuiton?

OMG, you are soooo right. Market forces be DAMNED!For that matter, lets pass laws so that only one restaurant for 25 miles can serve steaks! I'm sure the prices for steak will go DOWN DOWN DOWN! And with all that lack of competition, I'm sure they will work just as hard to make sure those steaks are sizzlin good! YumThis has NOTHING to do with the consumer, and everything to do with consolidating resources for one school and protecting them from the other growing universities in the state. If that isn't evident, let me just ask a question. Why, you, who so obviously are in the court of the university which you have nicknamed "the flagship" so for this, if it doesn't benefit "the flagship"? After debating politics for years, I am quite adept at recognizing 'justifications' and 'rationalizations' of people's positions, so don't repeat the whole "Its better for everyone" bullshit again. Its obvious you are so intent on this whole thing that you would sign up here just to propagandize the hell out of it, and I must ask WHY? Why is it so important to you, if your school is so great and such a "flagship" if it's not to protect it from competition?

[zen]

In fact, I was just thinking, I have an even better question that will get to the bottom of the true motivations of this whole caper:Would you be satisfied if every major university had an equal share of the programs and state resources?In other words, every university would get equal funding. Every university would have an equal number of undergraduate programs, and an equal number of Ph.D programs?Ohio State would have to give up a LOT for this program, but it would be for the greater good of the consumers and the state, would it not?

[Bow_Down_To_Your_Flagship]

Do you really think that such a competitve system is good?  That funding 9 history Ph.D programs is proper when Ohio can't properly fund undergraduate education to the point that it's subsequently ranked 47th among the states for affordable college tuiton?

OMG, you are soooo right. Market forces be DAMNED!For that matter, lets pass laws so that only one restaurant for 25 miles can serve steaks! I'm sure the prices for steak will go DOWN DOWN DOWN! And with all that lack of competition, I'm sure they will work just as hard to make sure those steaks are sizzlin good! YumThis has NOTHING to do with the consumer, and everything to do with consolidating resources for one school and protecting them from the other growing universities in the state.

Your analogy is ridiculous. What we have in Ohio is multiple steakhouses that suck but are the result of pork barrel politics and stay open because they are propped up with government funding. Let the market take over and weed out the weak and unnecessary.Ohio State has no need to be protected from the regional colleges. We've been an AAU member since 1916. We're the highest ranked public college in the USN&WR undergraduate rankings. Our graduate schools of law, medicine, engineering and business as well as doctoral programs in mathematics, physics, chemistry, biological sciences, history, political science, psychology and sociology are all ranked among the top 35 in USN&WR's graduate rankings. We have over twenty National Academies of Science and Engineering members on faculty as opposed to the 1 (Engineering Academy member at UC) at all the other Ohio public universities combined. We attracted more research funding last year (650 million dollars) than every other public university in the state combined. Our 2.2 billion dollar endowment is more than every other public university in the state combined.No, we have no need to be protected from the likes of Can't State or the Oxford Country Day School. This is all about stopping guys like Louis Proenza from ripping off the Ohio taxpayer, so that he can run around pretending there's no fundamental quality difference between Akron and Ohio State. Never mind the fact that he would have abandoned you people in a minute and crawled down I-71 on his hands and knees just to get an interview for our presidency.

[Bow_Down_To_Your_Flagship]

In fact, I was just thinking, I have an even better question that will get to the bottom of the true motivations of this whole caper:Would you be satisfied if every major university had an equal share of the programs and state resources?In other words, every university would get equal funding.  Every university would have an equal number of undergraduate programs, and an equal number of Ph.D programs?Ohio State would have to give up a LOT for this program, but it would be for the greater good of the consumers and the state, would it not?

Mass mediocrity would not be good for the Ohio consumer. Maybe Berkeley and UCLA should give up their graduate programs to the Cal State schools. It makes no sense, but hell it would sure make those schools feel better about themselves. A better way, and one that Ohio State has proposed in the past, is doing away with weak graduate programs based on an outside evaluation from academics in the relevant fields. For instance, line up those 9 doctoral programs in history, let a group of historians evaluate the programs and keep the three strongest. I'd have no problem with such a solution.BTW, Ohio State's programs are funded at the same level as any other public university, and we recieve the same undergraduate subsidy for an enrolled Ohio resident as every other university.Also, you're ignoring the historical record. Ohio State was founded to be the state's comprehensive flagship university. It was written into Ohio law in 1906 (Eagleson Bill). Under Jim Rhodes, every regional college felt free to attempt to usurp this role--even former municipal universities that had recently been saved from bankruptcy by being folded into the state university system. What Fingerhut and Strickland are doing represents a return to the historical norm not to mention a wiser more responsible use of the Ohio taxpayer's money.

[zen]

By your logic, Harvard, Yale, and Brown University should all stop competing with each other. Look how close they are. Its rediculous. You cannot honestly address issue on the merits of your own argument. It's blatantly obvious. You want to strip the competition from the Universities in this state in order to protect one of them.If you honestly support what you have proposed, then you should allow for the even and equal distribution of resources and degree granting programs to all of the universities.

[Bow_Down_To_Your_Flagship]

By your logic, Harvard, Yale, and Brown University should all stop competing with each other.  Its rediculous. You cannot honestly address issue on the merits of your own argument.  It's blatantly obvious.  You want to strip the competition from the Universities in this state in order to protect one of them.If you honestly support what you have proposed, then you should allow for the even and equal distribution of resources and degree granting programs to all of the universities.

A better analogy is Michigan, Wisconsin or California. Western Michigan is not allowed to compete with Michigan. UW-Stout is not allowed to compete with UW-Madison, and Chico State is not allowed to compete with Berkeley.Those states run rational, ordered higher education systems, and is it any surprise that not only are their flagship universities higher ranked than Ohio State but they also have lower, across the board tuition rates than Ohio's irrational redundant mess. What you call competition, I call 12 bitter midgets grabbing at our ankles and preventing us from properly carrying out our role.Ohio State isn't afraid of competition, but its competition is not within the state. Again, the state can have only one flagship university, and not everybody can be it. The decision was made in the 1860s that Ohio State would be that school. For all the regional schools to get their panties in a bunch because they don't get to play flagship is too frickin' bad. It's time to move on. With that being said, I am moving on.

[zen]

12 bitter midgets grabbing at our ankles and preventing us from properly carrying out our role.Ohio State isn't afraid of competition, but its competition is not within the state.

Okay then, no more midgets.You must concede that all Universities in the state should then be turned into equal sized non-midgets. OSU should have to give up a lot of it's programs, and many of the smaller Universities should get new ones, and the state can pay each one equally for their equal number of programs.If you don't agree to this, then you are obviously using this program to protect Ohio State from the growing 'midgets', because you obviously do not want to create a "system" of universities for the betterment of the state.

[Bow_Down_To_Your_Flagship]

12 bitter midgets grabbing at our ankles and preventing us from properly carrying out our role.Ohio State isn't afraid of competition, but its competition is not within the state.

Okay then, no more midgets.You must concede that all Universities in the state should then be turned into equal sized non-midgets. OSU should have to give up a lot of it's programs, and many of the smaller Universities should get new ones, and the state can pay each one equally for their equal number of programs.If you don't agree to this, then you are obviously using this program to protect Ohio State from the growing 'midgets', because you obviously do not want to create a "system" of universities for the betterment of the state.

No, I do advocate a system for the betterment of the state. Not one that spreads resources around equally and with no quality considerations simply because of pork barrel politics and the regional colleges' institutional egos.Fund Ohio State properly to compete against the top 10 public universities in the country. Let the Akrons and OU's of the state keep those graduate and research programs that have a national reputation and bring value to the state but shut down the one's that don't. Then, use those savings for two areas: 1) better funding for the remaining graduate/research programs that have a national reputation and can make a difference for the state and 2) better funding for the undergraduate subsidy in order to lower our ridiculously high tuition rates.As for the socialist, "to each according to his needs" model, it's unworkable for the simple reason that Ohio's system does not operate in a vacuum. With very few exceptions, Ohio State does not recruit from the same faculty pool as the other state universities. You, by government mandate, shut a program down at Ohio State and reopen it at Bowling Green or Akron or UT, and that National Academy of Sciences member does not relocate to a USN&WR tier-4/non-AAU member school. He leaves the state for Ann Arbor. Madison or another AAU school and takes his millions in research funding with him. That. however, is the crux of the matter. The most ardent partisans of the regional schools don't care about the state as a whole. They just simply want to continue their vain attempt to turn themselves into Ohio State no matter how costly or how damaging to the state's overall interests. You're fond of analogies, so here's one. This isn't Pee Wee football. Not everybody gets equal playing time. If you're mature enough to accept your proper role, you play a productive role on the team. If you're going throw a tantrum because--despite what all the coaches say about your talent level--you don't get to be the starting quarterback that 's just too bad.

[zen]

In other words, lock in and protect one university with it's current set of programs resources.You couldn't be any more freaking obvious.This will hurt the hundreds of thousands of lower income students the most, who will now have to reside at universities on the other side of the state, instead of commuting to local schools.It will hurt part-time students who need to work while they attend because they are paying their own way or already have a job or career and decided to go back to school.It will force those students to pay the tuition rates of the one school that offers a program in the degree that they seek, regardless of the fact that if there were competition, a smaller University may have cost them less. It will force those students who didn't meet the qualifications of the only school that offered their degree or their program to sit out because that school filled it's quotas and could not take more students, even though there COULD have been other universities in the state that offered the degree/program, but those programs/degrees were wiped out by government-knows-best types.It means a student may have to attend a university that doesn't match their personality, such as being forced to go to Toledo or Ohio U or Miami when all they wanted to do was go to Akron, or perhaps even Ohio State. No choice makes a whole lot of sense. :rolleyes:Just freaking great. This isn't better for the consumer by any stretch.

[urbanpreppie05]

^It honestly depends on what is swapped around and and sent to OSU. I would imagine that Engineering, Nursing, Law, Business, Poly Sci will be focused on MORE, and the standard majors- modern languages, Fine arts, etc. would stay there. Some of the more research intensive programs would move to OSU. Akron is not OSU guys.Bow Down, the only time you come around here is to egg people on about how great you think we aren't and how great you think OSU is. Why is that?

[Zip Watcher]

As an engineer, and a business owner I can only tell you one thing w/ regards to your points above.I don't give a rats a$$ about USN&WR rankings .. they're meaningless.I wouldn't hire an engineer from Columbus St. .. simply wouldn't. I've worked with a few throughout my career & they're average .. even mediocre. They spend WAY too much time telling everyone where they went to school and why they're awesome .. and not nearly enough time getting the job done soundly and efficiently. Same goes for CWRU if you really need an engineer that's practical, well rounded and fundamentally sound.tOSU nerds can't carry a UA engineer's jock. UA is probably the best kept secret in the midwest when it comes to producing quality engineers.P.S. I was never a student at either UA or tOSU

[GoZips]

Wow ... George Orwell, call your office. Animal Farm lives.Strickland and Fingerhut are a pair of flaming Liberals (some times referred to asCommunists). Strickland's plan reeks of uber control. Cut the free marketeconomy off at the knees. Communists and arch-Liberals always seek to over control anything they can get theirpaws on. This is just another example of a power grab. If there are nine PhD programsin Ohio it is obvious that school administrators would decide on their own that theirinstitution is not or is succeeding with that program. The market will easily determinehow many PhD programs in history the state school system will support.Given past history we can count on mandatory disciplines at x number of schools generations after that discipline has fell by the wayside. Example, print journalism israpidly becoming a technology of the past. But, the communists, er, liberals musthave control and the state will keep 15 print medium journalism colleges. After all,that's where moonbats and liberals come from. Central control, ooops, a central university, in this case, Ohio State, pumping millions of dollars into the governor's town. Gosh, who'd of thunk it?BOW WOW smacks of smog405 or GP129. By the way, why insult a universitypresident? Was that for your own pleasure or power grab? Oh oh, I forgot, as a liberalyou have no respect for anyone other than your own kind. And his name is Luis, notLouis.Hey, hey, isn't a name like Luis Porenza an obvious minority? I thought you libberslove minorities. Oh, I forgot, you hate the uppity ones like Clarence Thomas,Alan Keyes, Alberto Gonzales, Condolezza Rice.

[ZippyRulz]

If Strickland wants to shutter grad programs to further subsidize undergrad tuition then so be it, but do it fairly and evenly across the system, including Tosu. The spiel about Ohio State being founded as the "flagship" for a statewide system is completely fabricated...it was established as a land grant agricultural/mechanical college, nothing more.http://www.ohiohistorycentral.org/entry.php?rec=785

[Zipsrifle]

Interesting topic. I see merit in both arguments. I haven't been following this topic in the papers, as I live in Michigan, so I don't have all the facts. As with everything, the key is moderation. Lets face it Ohio (and Michigan too) are in a tight position financially. Creative ways must be found to save money, and I can see some merit in combining disciplines that are taught at many schools, but have low demand. With that said, there are other disciplines that have a much higher demand, and a need exists for multiple universities. Each University has its strengths. OSU, because of its size, probably has more strengths than other schools. For a discipline were the job market and/or enrollment is too low, then I would favor a few schools being the center for that discipline and the other schools offering the classes remotely. This would still enable competition between the few universities offering the courses, and give the students a choice. No need to attend that school, you could take the courses remotely. For disciplines such as Nursing, Teaching, core Engineering, etc., it is probably a good idea to let the existing programs alone.As for having OSU being the “Flagship” and the other universities as satellites, I don’t know if I agree with this. Why does there need to be a “Flagship”? I too feel that OSU, since it is in the State Capital, and is the only “Major” college sports school in the state is considered as the most important school in the state, and gets some favoritism. As I mentioned earlier, OSU has many strengths, and it should be considered the center for those strengths. But it should not be the only school in the state offering ALL disciplines on campus. ZW, thanks for the comments about UA Engineers. I also do not put a lot of weight on the “Rankings”. As with all schools, there are great students, and there are bad students. Being one of the few UA grads working in Detroit (until recently) I have had the opportunity to work with engineers from the “Best” schools. While at Akron, I considered GMI (now Kettering) as being a very prestigious Engineering school. After working with many grads, and taking a few classes there, it is no different that UA. I’ve worked with some very, very good engineers from GMI, and with some that are not very impressive. As for rankings, I was always amazed while I was in school, how Akron Engineering was ranked much lower than other schools. This was despite the fact that Akron flat out DOMINATED the national student engineering competitions. Fortunately, business and Gov’t did not miss this fact, and I think this is one of the main reasons why UA is one of only 17 teams from across the country to chosen to compete in the Challenge X competition.

[zipsfan38]

If you close a 200-300 acre college campus what do you do with the property and buildings? No one is scrambling to move to Ohio and the state just takes on more debt.Maybe we could start an OSU wannabe graduates asylum. Did bow down attend OSU or is he just another bandwagon junkie.Go UA Polymers!Go UA Psychology!Go UA SAE Racing Team!Go UA Law School Graduates and IP Law Program!I'd root for can't before I would root for OSU.

[mcperp]

Wow ... George Orwell, call your office.  Animal Farm lives.Strickland and Fingerhut are a pair of flaming Liberals (some times referred to asCommunists).  Strickland's plan reeks of uber control.  Cut the free marketeconomy off at the knees.  Communists and arch-Liberals always seek to over control anything they can get theirpaws on.  This is just another example of a power grab.  If there are nine PhD programsin Ohio it is obvious that school administrators would decide on their own that theirinstitution is not or is succeeding with that program.  The market will easily determinehow many PhD programs in history the state school system will support.Given past history we can count on mandatory disciplines at x number of schools generations after that discipline has fell by the wayside.  Example, print journalism israpidly becoming a technology of the past.  But, the communists, er, liberals musthave control and the state will keep 15 print medium journalism colleges.  After all,that's where moonbats and liberals come from. Central control, ooops, a central university, in this case, Ohio State, pumping millions of dollars into the governor's town.  Gosh, who'd of thunk it?BOW WOW smacks of smog405 or GP129.  By the way, why insult a universitypresident?  Was that for your own pleasure or power grab?  Oh oh, I forgot, as a liberalyou have no respect for anyone other than your own kind.  And his name is Luis, notLouis.Hey, hey, isn't a name like Luis Porenza an obvious minority?  I thought you libberslove minorities.  Oh, I forgot, you hate the uppity ones like Clarence Thomas,Alan Keyes, Alberto Gonzales, Condolezza Rice.

Wow, where to begin? You lambast Bow Down for denigrating Dr Proeza, with a severe reprimand about having no respect for anyone other than their own kind... while your entire post is a sadly derivative screed about liberals; whom I guess are not "your own kind". Your self righteousness is hysterical, your "research" culled no doubt from hours listening to right wing talk/scream hosts. I can almost see you sitting there, your butt bristling with pride, dissenting opinions whisked away with a mean and flipant ad hominem argument, so deeply assured that you are a true American.What do you even mean by "uppity"? Seems like a word you're a little too familiar with. If Clarence Thomas announced tomorrow that he's tired of being Scalia's caddy and has just plunked down cash for an ACLU membership would you still embrace the man? It's a better discussion board if you can separate a man and his beliefs. So, if you're going to debate a point, try at least to be reasonable and posit opinions that are more than just a sickly grab bag of invective.

[zen]

Wow, where to begin?  You lambast Bow Down for denigrating Dr Proeza, with a severe reprimand about having no respect for anyone other than their own kind... while your entire post is a sadly derivative screed about liberals; whom I guess are not "your own kind".  Your self righteousness is hysterical, your "research" culled no doubt from hours listening to right wing talk/scream hosts.

What are you talking about?I didn't see anything in his post and his generalizations about liberals that I would disagree with. It's the reason why I, a libertarian, sometimes find neo-cons the lesser of two evils, which is really really odd, but in this day and age, many so-called liberals really are big-government socialists!But he didn't call liberals mama's ugly. He was speaking in a non-personal way.If you chose to take it personal by association, that's your problem, because you don't need to. If you disagree with his generalizations, just say so. I don't see the need to accuse him of foul play. I disagree that there is.

Strickland and Fingerhut are a pair of flaming Liberals (some times referred to asCommunists).  Strickland's plan reeks of uber control.  Cut the free marketeconomy off at the knees.  Communists and arch-Liberals always seek to over control anything they can get theirpaws on.  This is just another example of a power grab.  If there are nine PhD programsin Ohio it is obvious that school administrators would decide on their own that theirinstitution is not or is succeeding with that program.  The market will easily determinehow many PhD programs in history the state school system will support.

[mcperp]

[What are you talking about?I didn't see anything in his post and his generalizations about liberals that I would disagree with. It's the reason why I, a libertarian, sometimes find neo-cons the lesser of two evils, which is really really odd, but in this day and age, many so-called liberals really are big-government socialists!But he didn't call liberals mama's ugly. He was speaking in a non-personal way.If you chose to take it personal by association, that's your problem, because you don't need to. If you disagree with his generalizations, just say so. I don't see the need to accuse him of foul play. I disagree that there is.

Strickland and Fingerhut are a pair of flaming Liberals (some times referred to asCommunists).  Strickland's plan reeks of uber control.  Cut the free marketeconomy off at the knees.  Communists and arch-Liberals always seek to over control anything they can get theirpaws on.  This is just another example of a power grab.  If there are nine PhD programsin Ohio it is obvious that school administrators would decide on their own that theirinstitution is not or is succeeding with that program.  The market will easily determinehow many PhD programs in history the state school system will support.

A non-personal way? Really? Please point out where he was non-personal with respect to Strickland and Fingerhut both of whom to my knowledge are not communists and surely are not conspiring to exert uber control over our state and institutions. Ohio's sad rankings in supporting student tuition and by extension our public institutions are a direct result of 16 years of executive and legislative reprioritization (some would say neglect). Strickland has worked diligently with the Regents and university presidents to enact a 2 year tuition freeze in Ohio, if that's uber control then find a better dictionary. I'm sorry, perhaps my response was rough, but meeting such an inflammatory batch of rhetoric so devoid of thought is tossing cold water on a fire. If you choose to characterize his words as generalizations, I would ask you to consider the effect of labeling honest citizens whose politics don't mesh with GoZips as communists (whose policies are as we know more than about economic methodologies). That's truly unfair, and is a slippery slope to other prejudices based on generalizations.

[zen]

Still, even if you vehamently disagree, it wasn't name calling. It may have been inaccurate, and it may have even been wrong, but you seem to me to be using the whole righteous indignation to attack someone's opinion.As I said, if you disagree, say so. You were not attacked.