Big East Dreams

[Blue & Gold]

In order to perk us back up after our tough loss to an incredibly talented, NFL draft-ladden, Ball State team:We've got a lot going for us in our athletic department! I think we'd have a ton to offer the Big East:1. Don't look now (well, yeah, go ahead and look now) but our women's volleyball team just beat Syracuse. That gives our women's volleyball team wins over Air Force, North Carolina State and both Rutgers and Syracuse of the Big East.2. Our women's soccer team is off to a 5-0 start! That is a very young program that apparently has tremendous upside!3. As we all know, our men's soccer program is now one of the nation's finest! 4. Our new soccer stadium will be one of the nation's finest, incorporated gorgeously with the new "outdoor living room."5. The Info opening next season! Going to be one of the nicest, most asthetically pleasing stadiums in the country!6. The fieldhouse is presently one of the nations finest facilities which is currently used by the Big East for their indoor track championships.7. Our men's basketall program is skyrocketing.8. LeBron's a Zips fan!!!!!IF, IF, IF our football team can become a MAC power, I think it'd be impossible for this university not to be coveted by the Big East.

[g-mann17]

In order to perk us back up after our tough loss to an incredibly talented, NFL draft-ladden, Ball State team:We've got a lot going for us in our athletic department! I think we'd have a ton to offer the Big East:1. Don't look now (well, yeah, go ahead and look now) but our women's volleyball team just beat Syracuse. That gives our women's volleyball team wins over Air Force, North Carolina State and both Rutgers and Syracuse of the Big East.2. Our women's soccer team is off to a 5-0 start! That is a very young program that apparently has tremendous upside!3. As we all know, our men's soccer program is now one of the nation's finest! 4. Our new soccer stadium will be one of the nation's finest, incorporated gorgeously with the new "outdoor living room."5. The Info opening next season! Going to be one of the nicest, most asthetically pleasing stadiums in the country!6. The fieldhouse is presently one of the nations finest facilities which is currently used by the Big East for their indoor track championships.7. Our men's basketall program is skyrocketing.8. LeBron's a Zips fan!!!!!IF, IF, IF our football team can become a MAC power, I think it'd be impossible for this university not to be coveted by the Big East.

I actually think that the Big East already is looking strongly at Akron. The football program winning will not make or break a bid. The home attendance for Big East opponents and our success against Big East programs in all sports including non-revenue sports is what will make or break the bid. Oh and the schools ability to pay the conference's entry fee. So show up for Cinci in two weeks, and pray we can play against them competively.

[Zips fan]

I would love to see The University of Akron Zips in the Big East but I think this might be a big stretch. The Big East currently has 9 football members. If a split were to occur from the bastketball schools, the Big East might look for an additional 3 schools to join. So the question becomes who are the three schools that would best fit the Big East in an expansion move. I think the top three right now would be Memphis, ECU, and UCF. All three have superior attendance and name recognition. Memphis brings a basketball program and major market that would be hard to compete against. ECU brings a nationally ranked football program that averages over 40K per game. UCF is a huge school that would be a natural rival for USF. I honestly believe the Zips could be on the radar for the Big East but not sure if we are there yet. I think we would be the fourth or fifth option at this point with Toledo being the other. We will need the Info to make a significant change in the attendance to make the stronger arguement.

[johnnyzip84]

I would love to see The University of Akron Zips in the Big East but I think this might be a big stretch. The Big East currently has 9 football members. If a split were to occur from the bastketball schools, the Big East might look for an additional 3 schools to join. So the question becomes who are the three schools that would best fit the Big East in an expansion move. I think the top three right now would be Memphis, ECU, and UCF. All three have superior attendance and name recognition. Memphis brings a basketball program and major market that would be hard to compete against. ECU brings a nationally ranked football program that averages over 40K per game. UCF is a huge school that would be a natural rival for USF. I honestly believe the Zips could be on the radar for the Big East but not sure if we are there yet. I think we would be the fourth or fifth option at this point with Toledo being the other. We will need the Info to make a significant change in the attendance to make the stronger arguement.

While Notre Dame is a conference member, they do not participate in football, which means there are actually only 8 true FB schools in the Big East. I find it highly unlikely (but not completely impossible I suppose) that ND would cast their FB lot with a 12 team Big East FB conference. Therefore, the Big East would probably need 4 new teams to reach the "championship game friendly" number of a dozen. I more or less agree with your "top three" of Memphis, ECU and UCF. I also wonder about a program like UMass. They''ve talked in the past about going D-1A (now FBS) and the way UConn pulled the move off in relative short order may provide hope for a similar school with similar upside. I like it that we are even being considered, if in fact we are. I think FB attendance for the Zips over the next few years will be the best indicator of just how viable UA would be to an expanded Big East.

[zipsbandman]

It seems to me that UA knows exactly what it's doing in order to put itself in a position to be considered. I think the Info will be a great place to watch a game. I walked by it today and the place looks huge even in its early stages of construction. If you expand it in a few years no MAC stadium comes close. They know they need butts in the seats and create a division I football atmosphere for fans attending a game. So what will they do to help that? They'll surround the stadium by dorms housing close to a thousand students. That complex will be one of a kind when it is all done. And if anyone is wondering where to tailgate. Phase I of the green space has been completed and it is a big open area to tailgate. Hopefully we can win in football this year to gain more excitement for the program. All that is missing facilities wise is a new arena. We know the JAR does not cut it. Dambrot seems to think that is a matter of when. And finally, Louis Proenza is our president. It's obvious he has his sight set on the Big East. It would go a LONG way in enhancing the reputation of the university. Lets put it into perspective. Our rival builds a canopy on its stadium's press box and builds a new scoreboard, but compare it to what we are doing.

[zipboy]

All great points, but hopefully we are putting ourselves into position to be that 4th or 5th option. In the next 3 or 4 years, the number of students projected to enter Ohio universities is supposedly going down. Even if a move like this generates an extra 1,000 kids to come to Akron, it is worth it. Football and solid football attendance is the key. Everything else is falling into place.

[Zips fan]

You are right that there should be 4 slots available is a split does occur. Right now, I think ECU, UCF and Memphis are the top 3. The remaining slot would be between Temple, Toledo, Buffalo or Akron. I think that we stand a decent chance compared to these schools but alot will depend on how the Info effects attendance.

[ZachTheZip]

You are right that there should be 4 slots available is a split does occur. Right now, I think ECU, UCF and Memphis are the top 3. The remaining slot would be between Temple, Toledo, Buffalo or Akron. I think that we stand a decent chance compared to these schools but alot will depend on how the Info effects attendance.

Temple won't happen. The Big East kicked them out, and there is too much bad blood there. It's like suggesting that the MAC would take Marshall back.Between Toledo, Buffalo, and Akron, there are a number of things that would be considered. Buffalo has the best academics by far and also the largest market, but poor facilities and a nonexistent fan base. If Turner Gill leaves (very likely after this season), they go back to being terrible in football. Toledo has history and tradition, decent facilities, and they are historically competitive with a decent athletic budget and fairly large fanbase, but they have some black marks from point-shaving scandals in both basketball and football. Akron easily has the best facilities (especially when we figure out how to replace the JAR), the Cleveland market is ripe for the picking, and we are the most competitive in everything but Football. The overall fanbase isn't much to speak of right now but it has the potential for explosive growth as demonstrated by the great showing at the MAC championship and Motor City Bowl in 2005.Essentially, it comes down to what the Big East is looking for: Market size and academic reputation (Buffalo), fan base and tradition (Toledo), or sheer potential (Akron).

[ziptrumpet87]

You are right that there should be 4 slots available is a split does occur. Right now, I think ECU, UCF and Memphis are the top 3. The remaining slot would be between Temple, Toledo, Buffalo or Akron. I think that we stand a decent chance compared to these schools but alot will depend on how the Info effects attendance.

Being in the BE may actually increase attendance in itself. The casual fan recognizes Pitt, Syracuse, Cinci, WV, etc. and that they usually are better teams (at least they have been or currently are ranked). Would you as an uninformed casual football fan rather go to the Info for a game against WMU or against Pitt? There's definately some potential rivalries built in there also.

[UAZipster0305]

You are right that there should be 4 slots available is a split does occur. Right now, I think ECU, UCF and Memphis are the top 3. The remaining slot would be between Temple, Toledo, Buffalo or Akron. I think that we stand a decent chance compared to these schools but alot will depend on how the Info effects attendance.

Temple won't happen. The Big East kicked them out, and there is too much bad blood there. It's like suggesting that the MAC would take Marshall back.Between Toledo, Buffalo, and Akron, there are a number of things that would be considered. Buffalo has the best academics by far and also the largest market, but poor facilities and a nonexistent fan base. If Turner Gill leaves (very likely after this season), they go back to being terrible in football. Toledo has history and tradition, decent facilities, and they are historically competitive with a decent athletic budget and fairly large fanbase, but they have some black marks from point-shaving scandals in both basketball and football. Akron easily has the best facilities (especially when we figure out how to replace the JAR), the Cleveland market is ripe for the picking, and we are the most competitive in everything but Football. The overall fanbase isn't much to speak of right now but it has the potential for explosive growth as demonstrated by the great showing at the MAC championship and Motor City Bowl in 2005.Essentially, it comes down to what the Big East is looking for: Market size and academic reputation (Buffalo), fan base and tradition (Toledo), or sheer potential (Akron).

I disagree that UB is a much stronger academic institution than us. Although UB has a larger research volume, I still think UA is at a comparable level when it comes to academics. I also doubt that UB has larger market potential than all of NE Ohio, which includes Cleveland. In the end, I think we are the front-runner for the 4th slot with Toledo being a close second (much smaller market in NW Ohio than NE Ohio).Also, I think it's obvious that the University is targeting the Big East as evidence by all the series record references to the Big East found in the game previews for the various fall sports (men's soccer and volleyball especially).

[Zips fan]

I wouldn't discount Temple that easily. You might be right about bad blood but they still have some strong positives. The Philadelphia location, tradition for basketball, and facilities are a plus too. I think Buffalo could be considered a rival for Syracuse and would help secure the NY region. I think Toledo doesn't anything over Akron other than tradition/fanbase. Those would be easily remedied with being in the BE. If Temple's relationship is to far gone for consideration, we would have to take an honest look at what Akron/Buffalo would bring to the BE. I definitely think we would be in the equation if a split occurs.

[ziptrumpet87]

Probably doesn't hurt to have contacts at Cinci (former UA AD) and Pitt (JD) either, not that other schools don't also have contacts.

[johnnyzip84]

I wouldn't ignore UMass either, despite their current FCS status. In some people's eyes, The Big East "rolled the dice" with UConn a few years back and by most accounts this has worked out quite well for both parties. Having already lost Boston College to the ACC, I could easily see the conference wanting to get a team back in Massachusetts to bolster the "eastern" feel of the conference and provide a natural rival for UConn in all sports. Besides, NONE of these other schools can reach out to the potential market size of a UMass.

[Zip Watcher]

I wouldn't ignore UMass either

I would.UConn is a charter member of the Big East .. there wasn't really a "dice roll" involved there. They had the inside track to join in football if they ever upgraded to 1-A. They've been in the BE for all sports since its inception.And as a UConn alumn, I can tell you that there won't be an initiative coming out of Storrs to add U*Ass anytime soon. They don't belong on the same field / court .. besides the fact that there's not really a lot of momentum in Amherst to move up to FBS .. UC anyway isn't going to clamor for them to be in the BE.And one other thing .. you are aware that U*Ass is in the middle of nowhere, right? It's farther from Boston than Athens is from Columbus, and almost as far as Toledo from Cleveland. As the bird flies, Amherst is closer to Albany than it is Boston. And with the 300 schools in Boston, including BC, BU, Northeastern .. it might be a stretch to label U*Ass as a big market grabbing team.Just my $.02Go Zips!

[Zips fan]

If UMASS had any dreams of joining the BE, they would need to be making steps currently to get their football program to the I-A level. The split is going to be the football schools leaving and I don't see UMASS as ready to be a part of this.

[johnnyzip84]

I wouldn't ignore UMass either

I would.UConn is a charter member of the Big East .. there wasn't really a "dice roll" involved there. They had the inside track to join in football if they ever upgraded to 1-A. They've been in the BE for all sports since its inception.And as a UConn alumn, I can tell you that there won't be an initiative coming out of Storrs to add U*Ass anytime soon. They don't belong on the same field / court .. besides the fact that there's not really a lot of momentum in Amherst to move up to FBS .. UC anyway isn't going to clamor for them to be in the BE.And one other thing .. you are aware that U*Ass is in the middle of nowhere, right? It's farther from Boston than Athens is from Columbus, and almost as far as Toledo from Cleveland. As the bird flies, Amherst is closer to Albany than it is Boston. And with the 300 schools in Boston, including BC, BU, Northeastern .. it might be a stretch to label U*Ass as a big market grabbing team.Just my $.02Go Zips!

Oh I think I get it The UConn/U*ass thing is a little like the problems between the Hatfields/McCoys, Jews/Arabs, Brown's Fans/Steeler's Fans etc. But when one looks at these conflicts, it's more often than not that the feuding parties have MUCH more in common than they care to admit My "roll of the dice" comment was overstated, I suppose. The point I was trying to make is that The Big East decided to take in an unproven (at least at the 1-A level) football member (I know, they had the right connections) with a somewhat unorthodox plan to go to 1-A (isn't Rentschler Field about 21 miles from campus?) over an established 1-A program (Memphis, ECU) when BC, VT, and Miami decided to leave. If I recall correctly, it wasn't like UConn had been dominant at the 1-AA level prior to making the decision to go 1-A. I think they made it to the 1-AA quarterfinals in 1998 under Skip Holtz, but for the most part they were OK but not great (we won't mention who won the 1-AA championship that year )In Northeast Corridor geographic terms, I suppose Amherst IS in the middle of nowhere. But this is relative. U*ass DOES have the 2nd largest enrollment in the state (behind BU, see link). I would think that U*ass grads are scattered throughout the state and region. It doesn't seem too unreasonable to me to think the Massachusetts could support two FBS programs if U*ass ever wanted to give it a go.Enrollment in Massachusetts' CollegesI'll request one last point of clarification, just for the sake of getting this in writing on a public forum. By "I would" I assume you meant that you would ignore them (it was my original wording, so I'm to blame for any ambiguity) as a possible future Big East member. I'll ask a more direct question. In your opinion, what is the probability that U*ass will ever be a football playing member of the Big East conference?BTW, I have absolutely NO allegiance or affiliation with either UConn or U*ass just to make that clear.Just my 1/100 of a cent (cash value of a coupon)Zip go the Zippers!

[Zips fan]

I don't think UMASS will be a football playing member of the BE. I don't think they are moving in that direction currently. Once the split occurs, the BE will be looking for current members of I-A. I worry more about Temple and Buffalo than UMASS. I hope Mack and Luis are keeping tabs on BE and are aware of the criteria the BE is looking to add. I have a lot of faith in Dr. Proenza and Mack doing the research to make the correct move to position us correctly.

[Blue & Gold]

If/when the football schools split from the basketball-only members, will the football schools retain the name "Big East," or will the basketball-only schools keep the name and the football schools be required to come up w/ a new label?And I was looking at the list of potential candidates for the football Big East, and maybe they'd think of adding more than 4 schools? Is that out of the question? Could they add UCF, Memphis, Buffalo, UA, and for the sake of argument, UMass and Temple as well? The new conference would then have 14 members and be a pretty tough conference:CincyUConnL'villePittRutgersSouth Florida'CuseWest VirginiaUMassTempleUCFMemphisBuffaloAkronAnd don't you think Memphis may be a little too far to the west? All that travel may end up killing them.

[ziptrumpet87]

If/when the football schools split from the basketball-only members, will the football schools retain the name "Big East," or will the basketball-only schools keep the name and the football schools be required to come up w/ a new label?And I was looking at the list of potential candidates for the football Big East, and maybe they'd think of adding more than 4 schools? Is that out of the question? Could they add UCF, Memphis, Buffalo, UA, and for the sake of argument, UMass and Temple as well? The new conference would then have 14 members and be a pretty tough conference:CincyUConnL'villePittRutgersSouth Florida'CuseWest VirginiaUMassTempleUCFMemphisBuffaloAkronAnd don't you think Memphis may be a little too far to the west? All that travel may end up killing them.

Their travel would still be better than UCF & USF in that scenario.

[Zip Watcher]

Oh I think I get it The UConn/U*ass thing is a little like the problems between the Hatfields/McCoys, Jews/Arabs, Brown's Fans/Steeler's Fans etc. But when one looks at these conflicts, it's more often than not that the feuding parties have MUCH more in common than they care to admit

Perhaps.

The point I was trying to make is that The Big East decided to take in an unproven (at least at the 1-A level) football member (I know, they had the right connections) with a somewhat unorthodox plan to go to 1-A (isn't Rentschler Field about 21 miles from campus?) over an established 1-A program (Memphis, ECU) when BC, VT, and Miami decided to leave. If I recall correctly, it wasn't like UConn had been dominant at the 1-AA level prior to making the decision to go 1-A. I think they made it to the 1-AA quarterfinals in 1998 under Skip Holtz, but for the most part they were OK but not great (we won't mention who won the 1-AA championship that year )

I'm not sure, but there may have been language that required the BE to take UC if they met certain qualifications. Not sure .. but I think I remember that. When I was there in the early 90's .. FB was a total afterthought. You went to one game a year (vs. Yale) and you hardly ever made it into the stadium. :CK_brew: :cheers: Students generally didn't give a rats a$$ about FB. Make no mistake: CT is a hoops crazy state. There's a lottery for student tickets for ladies hoops. There's waiting lists al la the GB Packers for general public season tickets. Both women's & mens.The Renschler field thing is rooted in a couple of areas. #1 .. UC is the flagship U of the state, no question there. The law makers like to have things centrally located. The roads in and out of Storrs simply wouldn't support a crowd of 50k on a Saturday. Also UTC was willing to donate (or at least offer at a very cheap rate) their closed airfield (it used to be a cargo airport) for the site. #2, UC plays about half it's hoops games in the Mall in Hartford. Again, see the lawmakers for this. When Gampel Pavilion was built, they purposely limited its size to prevent UC from moving all the home games to campus. So the U, the students .. the community are sort of used to the whole distance to sporting event thing .. I can't tell you how it plays out for FB .. but it worked ok for hoops. It was a nuisance.

In Northeast Corridor geographic terms, I suppose Amherst IS in the middle of nowhere. But this is relative. U*ass DOES have the 2nd largest enrollment in the state (behind BU, see link). I would think that U*ass grads are scattered throughout the state and region. It doesn't seem too unreasonable to me to think the Massachusetts could support two FBS programs if U*ass ever wanted to give it a go.

Maybe the thing to discuss here is the pure interest in college FB up there. I can tell you it's not nearly what it is here in the Midwest. Even HS football isn't that big of a deal. The area is way more diverse in its interests than Ohio. So I don't really think there are many folks up there bummed that there's only 2 FBS teams .. I think it's just not as important to folks.

I'll request one last point of clarification, just for the sake of getting this in writing on a public forum. By "I would" I assume you meant that you would ignore them (it was my original wording, so I'm to blame for any ambiguity) as a possible future Big East member. I'll ask a more direct question. In your opinion, what is the probability that U*ass will ever be a football playing member of the Big East conference?

In the next 5 years: 0% Mainly because wheels aren't even turning there for a move to FBS. They'd have to be committed to a plan today to be 1-A in 3 or 4 seasons, and they wouldn't get right in the BE.In the long run: Well less than 50% .. I simply think they like their current affiliations. They're in a very good hoops league that they can be competitive with. They play FB against UVM, UNH, Maine .. local teams .. and I think they aren't looking to change that. It just seems to me that the Minutemen will continue to play FCS with a near High Major hoops conference. I think one thing that could change the equation is if the A10 were to combust (not sure why that would ever happen). And I think it takes more than Temple leaving the A10 to make it happen. I think a departure of hoops-rich schools like Xavier, Dayton, GW .. etc would cause a re-look at the strategy.Remember, I have no inside knowledge of the knuckleheads in Amherst, but am only an observer from as far as I can be from there. I will tell you that their hoops facility is first rate. Woody tore it up when there.Go Zips!

[johnnyzip84]

Thanks for the scoop from someone who has "lived it and breathed it", ZipWatcher! Like a lot of situations, perhaps the list of things that I perceive as common between UConn and U*ass is superficial, and not as extensive as first suspected, when one considers the details. I guess the big driving factor is probably U*ass' long term intentions. If they wanted to go FBS it sure seems like this would be as viable a jump as any for teams currently competing in FCS. Now if they upset Texas Tech in Lubbock this weekend, all bets are off Zip go the Zippers!

[Zip Watcher]

Perhaps the biggest difference is the lack of soap & hot water in Amherst. Just a guess. :D :D