Ohio State and MAC Losses

[bobbyake]

We could use Ball State as an example here. Purdue, Indiana, and Norte Dame (hard to count when most students don't come from Indiana) have all been out of national contention in the past 3-5 years. This is helping Ball State. I don't think one OSwho down year will cause much to change pertaining to fans, but it will help a little with media coverage. If the Sucks stay average for 3-5 years, it will make some difference in media coverage and fan support. I'd be more than happy to welcome that little difference. Don't understand why any other Zip fan wouldn't.To stay on topic, for Akron to get media attention, they not only have to be a winning/championship team, but they'll need OSwho to have a down year.Remember when Akron went to the Motor City Bowl, beat NC State, does well??? The paper barely covered it because OSwho was a national contender.If OSwho is a National contender, it matters little if Akron wins a MAC Championship. The media will treat us like a small time program. Kind of like Mount Union in a way, although they are small time.This has been a fact of the past, that is why we have bad opinions towards OSwho.I was in Columbus on business for the OSU v PSU game, it was nice to see the droopy faces after the game.

[Ryno aka Menace]

These are last year's totals.Rank/ Name / Accum Attendance / Accum Percent Capacity / Avg Attendance /Games93 / Central Mich. / 93853 / 62.16 / 18771 / 5108 / Akron / 63910 / 45.39 / 15978 / 4Doesn't sound to me like they are drawing too much more even with their success.

Another reason why we need out of this conference! (insert picture of beating a dead horse)

[UAZipster0305]

Let's beat them down in soccer and be done with the OSWho debate for another year.

[zipseuph]

wow....I certainly regard differences of opinion as being acceptable, but when people don't check their facts, that's another issue.Zipseuph....I'm sorry, but we WON our home opener against N. Texas in 2006, right after our MAC title, and bowl appearance. AND we went into that game having just beaten NC State, our first ever win against a BCS team, a couple of weeks earlier. Do you know what the attendance was that day? It was 16.000 people. If you want the truth, that's actually much LOWER than our attendance at plenty of home openers over the last 30 years....even when we stunk. Let me add one more thing....I know plenty of people who were in the athletic dept. at the time of our MAC championship, and they all acknowledged that it would be unwise for us to expect the huge throng of fans who showed up at the MAC Championship game, and at the bowl game, to continue to show up at the Rubber Bowl the following year for regular season games. That's just the way it is...it's MAC football. ZippyTuba...thanks for the fact check. But those of us who have been around a long time already know that there are not very significant changes in attendance among MAC teams, win or lose. CMU?...on the verge of it's 3rd straight MAC title?...and they draw a couple of thousand more than us? I think that says it all. If we are ever to achieve excellence and attendance, we still have loads of work ahead of us.

guess I kinda screwed the pooch on that one. sorry bout that

[sgm405]

A few things...1) I've never understood all of the "if we move to a bigger conference everything will be better" line of thinking. I love the Zips, but let's be realistic - we're an average MAC football team. If you're we're average team in a mid-major conference, what makes us ready to go to a bigger conference? And why would the Big East want us? Do we really want losing season after losing season? And will attendance really rise just because we're in the Big East (but losing)? How 'bout we build up the football and basketball programs more, become an annual conference championship champion/contender in both, and then talk about moving up. 2) This is a Zips fans board, and it is a little silly for OSU fans to get bothered by Zips fans on a Zips board calling the Buckeyes the "Suckeyes"...at the same time, when I see it it kind of reminds me of a player scoring a touchdown with 2 minutes left and his team down 35 points, following it up by dancing around and holding up the "we're #1" hand signal. He can do it, and it probably makes him feel good, but he kind of looks silly in the process. There's a thing called "scoreboard", and we don't have it. 3) Why is everyone so worried about OSU every year? Let them do their thing in the Big Ten and lets focus on the Zips...we are in first in the MAC East with each of our remaining games being very, very winnable. We have a brand new stadium opening up next season. Our basketball team just landed possibly the biggest recruit we've ever had. And the soccer team is again among the nation's best. Forget about the Buckeyes...stop worrying about them...ENJOY the ZIPS!

[skip-zip]

zipseuph...don't worry about it man. You are a loyal Zips fan, and I wish there were thousands more like you. You show a lot of enthusiasm. I just like to point out that we've been through so many of these obstacles already as a program over the last few decades, and we're still not getting very far. We have a lot of work ahead of us. I can only hope that people like you, and the friends you bring to the games, really does eventually lead to a dramatic change in our fan base. But I only show skepticism because so many things have been tried and failed during my time, and our progress has not been what I had hoped. Much like yourself, I had sincerely hoped that winning a MAC title would bring more people out at the beginning of the following year, and it simply did not happen.....even with a couple of big early wins...one being against a BCS school. I hate to say this again, but it's MAC football...and not enough people care about MAC football. sgm...I've been critical of past posts from you, but your point #1 is exactly how I feel. We have some work to get done at the present level we are at, before any "larger" conference is even going to take a look at us. And if that happens, yes, I think our fan interest, recruiting, and media attention will increase. But again, we are far from being at a point where we have what it takes to impress a "better" league.It's funny that you mention "scoreboard". I remember being at the OSU/Akron football game last year, and I did take a picture of the scoreboard at halftime, just to give myself a continual reminder that we hung with those guys, and trailed by one point at halftime. Our lack of depth in the 2nd half certainly hurt us, but I still think our boys (as well as the guys at OU this year) showed that the gap between the "haves" and the "have nots" really is continuing to close. And by the way...I have plenty of friends and family who support OSU. They all understand the "Suckeyes", "OSwho", and all of the other phrases as just being banter from sports fans. It's all in good fun. And obviously, those kinds of things should be accepted as the norm on a competing teams fan website.

[Ryno aka Menace]

A few things...1) I've never understood all of the "if we move to a bigger conference everything will be better" line of thinking. I love the Zips, but let's be realistic - we're an average MAC football team. If you're we're average team in a mid-major conference, what makes us ready to go to a bigger conference? And why would the Big East want us? Do we really want losing season after losing season? And will attendance really rise just because we're in the Big East (but losing)? How 'bout we build up the football and basketball programs more, become an annual conference championship champion/contender in both, and then talk about moving up.

South FloridaUConnCinciLouisvilleI don't recall any of the above mentioned teams dominating their former conferences.What made these school more ready than Akron? Their attendance? Their winning history?Well in 2000 UConn football started playing 1A football only had 2 wins and had an average attendance of 14K, they joined the Big East in 2004 and are now averaging 38K. Care to guess what they averaged in before that?South Florida graduating to I-A status in 2001. South Florida won 17 games in its first two seasons as an independent, then joined Conference USA for two years. In 2004, South Florida joined the Big East.South Florida now averages 53K......care to guess what they averaged before '04Louisville now averages 39KCinci now averages 30K, care to guess what they averaged before joining the Big East?Akron's average attendance is a bloated 16K, and we have been D1 a lot longer than South Florida and UConn!! Do you think Jim Levitt of South Florida gets the same recruits he did when he was in DII? Do you think we would get the same talent level of recruits if we were in the Big East? Of course not. And another thing, why do you assume we would lose if we joined the Big East? We already beat one team in the conference and should have beaten 2!!! It may take time but with better recruits on top of what we are currently doing seems to me like we would be competitive. In 2003 we lost to UConn by 1 point and they went 9-3 that year!

[ZachTheZip]

It's better to be hated than ignored. Right now we're ignored because the dominant fan base (OSU fans) don't see us as any more of a threat than Walsh College. Sure, when the Zips are brought up in a conversation they say some nice things about us (unless we're playing them in the near future) but that's because they don't care enough to start talking smack like they would to a fan of some other schools.The only real way an OSU loss directly benefits Akron is if we beat them in head-to-head competition. The only other way would be if Akron finished with a better record than OSU and went to a better bowl than them. Until one of those two things happens, I will simply ignore them and treat them as just another school that doesn't affect my team, like Missouri or Florida State. Ignoring them or not caring at all is the only way to really throw them for a loop. Try telling an OSU fan that you just don't care about their team one way or another and watch their heads explode from confusion. For them you either love or hate OSU but it's impossible to not care about them because the whole world revolves around Columbus, good or bad.

[sgm405]

Let me restate...you must have consistent success as a top team to be ready to jump to a bigger conference. Cincinnati made it to a bowl game in 4 of their last 5 seasons in Conference USA before moving to the Big East. Louisville had a winning season and made a bowl game for seven straight years before jumping to a bigger conference. South Florida had winning seasons in 6 of their last 7 seasons before jumping to a bigger conference. UConn is your best case, having only one winning season before making the jump...but they also had losing seasons in 2 of their first three years in the Big East. Now look at the Zips, who are 26-30 in 4 1/2 seasons under JD Brookhart. In that time, they've had 2 winning seasons and 2 losing seasons (currently 4-4 in the 5th season), with one bowl appearance. Those regions of the country might be different than here, but in Championship-starved Northeast Ohio, WINNING = attendance, not necessarily a bigger conference. Even the new stadium will be a short term attendance fix if W's aren't put up consistently.

[Zip Watcher]

Let me restate...you must have consistent success as a top team to be ready to jump to a bigger conference. ..... snip ...UConn is your best case, having only one winning season before making the jump...but they also had losing seasons in 2 of their first three years in the Big East.

You can restate it as many time as you like .. it would still merely be your opinion.Success or failure at a lower level is not necessarily a harbinger of what is to come at a higher level.UConn felated goats for decades in football at the 1-AA level. In the Yankee Conference, now A10 football I think, they rarely if ever ventured into the playoffs.Marshall dominated the MAC. The conference was their b*tch. And they're an also ran in a conference that you say is a better step.Your argument doesn't completely hold water.You need facilities and a commitment to compete to be ready to jump. IMHO that would be the productive debate regarding preparedness to move upwards.Go Zips!

[sgm405]

Let me restate...you must have consistent success as a top team to be ready to jump to a bigger conference. ..... snip ...UConn is your best case, having only one winning season before making the jump...but they also had losing seasons in 2 of their first three years in the Big East.

You can restate it as many time as you like .. it would still merely be your opinion.Success or failure at a lower level is not necessarily a harbinger of what is to come at a higher level.UConn felated goats for decades in football at the 1-AA level. In the Yankee Conference, now A10 football I think, they rarely if ever ventured into the playoffs.Marshall dominated the MAC. The conference was their b*tch. And they're an also ran in a conference that you say is a better step.Your argument doesn't completely hold water.You need facilities and a commitment to compete to be ready to jump. IMHO that would be the productive debate regarding preparedness to move upwards.Go Zips!

When did I say that it was anything other than my personal opinion?Obviously, there are exceptions to every rule. UConn would definitely be one of them, which I pointed out. Marshall dominating the MAC then making the jump and struggling (in my opinion of course), only helps my argument. If Marshall, who did dominate the MAC, and who does have a consistent fan base, can't successfully make the jump, why would we be able to? In my opinion, you can have a new stadium, the best facilities, and/or jump to a new conference...but the fans will only come (and stay) if you win and win consistently...whether it be in the MAC, Big East, Big Ten, or whatever other conference.

[Zip Watcher]

Obviously, there are exceptions to every rule. UConn would definitely be one of them, which I pointed out. Marshall dominating the MAC then making the jump and struggling (in my opinion of course), only helps my argument. If Marshall, who did dominate the MAC, and who does have a consistent fan base, can't successfully make the jump, why would we be able to?

I think Marshall hurts your argument. You've been saying that the Zips need to win consistently and have high attendance before moving upstream. Marshall is an example of exactly that, and they moved up. For them it yielded mediocrity. UConn was mediocre and has moved WAY up .. and they've used commitment and facilities to quickly become competitive in a BCS (like it or not) league.If we look at Marshall's example and pin to that, it sounds to me like we should roll up and suck our thumbs, accept our plight in a sub-standard conference arrangement and be happy with what we have now. I disagree.Simply put, there are no guarantees in life. No model is exactly right, and we can pull examples from both sides of the argument that have vastly disparate results.However, if we aren't looking to move forward, we're moving backwards. I think the U HAS to target improvement and betterment, that's what it's all about, right?I think we can both agree however, that Go Zips!

[tbozeglav]

Agreed... 100%Obviously the University's goal is to continually improve. Any university that doesn't is never going to succeed. I firmly believe that whether or not we get the opportunity to switch to the Big East is based solely on whether or not that conference decides to add 2 more teams to create 2 conference dvisions and and a conference championship. Obviously we are a school that has the facilities and the team to compete in the Big East and there is a GREAT potential for a large fanbase given our proximity to the Cleveland area. The University has pretty much done everything they can to build a great resume for prospective conferences. Its now all in the hands of any other conference that would want to add us.

[Buckzip]

Again, you brought it up....When it comes to having a little class, it doesn't matter what site you are on.

Go on any Sucks website and start talking about Michigan, USC, Florida, Texas, LSU, Michigan St., Penn St, Miami (fl), etc etc etc and see how class fairs.Again, tOSU fans are only respectful to us because we do not beat them. They do not consider us to be of any threat or anywhere near their level. I have numerous friends and co-workers who are tOSU fans and all day they trash talk with each other how bad the 'other' team* is.So get off your white horse about Akron fans putting down the Suckeyes. I commend your respect for UA, but I will attest that the rest of their fan base hardly shares your insight. If the day comes that Akron beats them, god knows what little respect for us they have will be gone.*Whereas the 'other' team is any team tOSU happens to be playing that day or has ever played in the past.

Funny, I go to quite a few OSU sites, and the only school they attack constantly is Michigan.Most are very cordial to PSU and the rest of the big10 unless a troll comes flaming. Then the war is on.However, very few start the crap, except Michigan. The rivalBelieve what you want though, I know I can't change your closed mind.

[w00t]

Edit: "Again, tOSU fans are only respectful to us because we do not beat them."So why are we talking trash about them?

[Buckzip]

Edit: "Again, tOSU fans are only respectful to us because we do not beat them."So why are we talking trash about them?

My entire point...Thank you.

[ZachTheZip]

Edit: "Again, tOSU fans are only respectful to us because we do not beat them."So why are we talking trash about them?

1.) Because we don't beat them. 2.) Because their "fans" outnumber us 5-1 in our own city and on our own campus.

[Zip Watcher]

As everyone appears to be done talking Zips Football in this topic .. it's now move to Smack.

[ziptrumpet87]

flushes, Suckeyes, Kitties, Sweaters.... what's the difference? It's a Zips forum... fans of all other schools have to expect some abuse of their mascot if they come here.