Trouble in Oxford

[Zipgrad01]

After seeing the 398th post from GP1 calling for the Zips to drop to 1-AA, I got to thinking... has The Great One quantified exactly how much money the Zips Athletics Department would save by dropping it's football program to 1-AA?

Let's begin with 22 scholarships. At a value of $20k/scholarship? That's $440,000.

For Game Day -- Let's fly to the campuses of SE Missouri State, Illinois State, Southern Illinois, Murray State, James Madison etc instead of taking bus trips to Oxford, Toledo, Bowling Green, K.e.n.t., etc. I'm guessing we'd lose about $100k on that deal?

That's puts the savings at roughly $340,000.

At at lower division, we'll save on coach's and Athletic Department salaries...maybe that tacks the $100k back on?

I think you can go back and forth all you want...at best you save $500k if you drop to 1-AA. Being an "equivalent" to a directional Michigan school ain't the sexiest thing in the world... but it beats being Morehead State Junior.

Dropping to 1-AA is not worth saving a measly $500,000 ($20/student).

You need to think harder. My posts have been centered around much more than money. Level competition has always been at the center of my posts. Ideas such as fans not getting ripped off for having to purchase tickets for Miami (OH) vs. Florida have also been at the center of my posts.....Florida is stealing from their fans, and Miami is whoring the football program out....How is that good for college football?

If you do want to talk about money, we can do that. What are the expenses going to be to make the MAC and UofA a real D-1A school that can effectively compete with every other, and that means BCS schools out there? How much "building" can the Univeristy and taxpayers take?....We have a 25,000 seat stadium so how much woudl it be to tripple the size? Can they afford it? Can they support it if it is built.

My opinion has less to do with saving money and more to do with the existing landscape of college football and a desire to watch teams in college football compete at the same level. We are a D-1A school in name only. The MAC is a D-1A conference in name only. There are going to be even more changes in college football over the next five year. The BCS schools are going to dictate the terms of those changes. Nobody is going to ask the MAC leadership what they think about BCS level changes in terms of a playoff and the size, membership and direction of their conference. The MAC is already a non-factor in those discussions. If the MAC needs to make a move on its own, it needs to do so before the BCS schools make the move for them. If that is a separate level of college football somewhere between D-1 and I-AA, then fine. There area already four divisions, would another really hurt?

Would the walls of The Big Dialer really come crashing down if we played all of the same MAC schools and had a OOC schedule of Marshall, Florida Atlantic, Nevada and pick a I-AA school? That would be a Hell of a good schedule. Let the BCS schools play one another without their early season fodder and let the non-BCS schools play some games where they have a chance to win and a chance at a national championship. I-AA or another division could do that.

So Akron pounding Morgan State and more than likely Gardner Webb isn't stealing from our fans? Get off the I-AA and moving down BS.

[GP1]

After seeing the 398th post from GP1 calling for the Zips to drop to 1-AA, I got to thinking... has The Great One quantified exactly how much money the Zips Athletics Department would save by dropping it's football program to 1-AA?

Let's begin with 22 scholarships. At a value of $20k/scholarship? That's $440,000.

For Game Day -- Let's fly to the campuses of SE Missouri State, Illinois State, Southern Illinois, Murray State, James Madison etc instead of taking bus trips to Oxford, Toledo, Bowling Green, K.e.n.t., etc. I'm guessing we'd lose about $100k on that deal?

That's puts the savings at roughly $340,000.

At at lower division, we'll save on coach's and Athletic Department salaries...maybe that tacks the $100k back on?

I think you can go back and forth all you want...at best you save $500k if you drop to 1-AA. Being an "equivalent" to a directional Michigan school ain't the sexiest thing in the world... but it beats being Morehead State Junior.

Dropping to 1-AA is not worth saving a measly $500,000 ($20/student).

You need to think harder. My posts have been centered around much more than money. Level competition has always been at the center of my posts. Ideas such as fans not getting ripped off for having to purchase tickets for Miami (OH) vs. Florida have also been at the center of my posts.....Florida is stealing from their fans, and Miami is whoring the football program out....How is that good for college football?

If you do want to talk about money, we can do that. What are the expenses going to be to make the MAC and UofA a real D-1A school that can effectively compete with every other, and that means BCS schools out there? How much "building" can the Univeristy and taxpayers take?....We have a 25,000 seat stadium so how much woudl it be to tripple the size? Can they afford it? Can they support it if it is built.

My opinion has less to do with saving money and more to do with the existing landscape of college football and a desire to watch teams in college football compete at the same level. We are a D-1A school in name only. The MAC is a D-1A conference in name only. There are going to be even more changes in college football over the next five year. The BCS schools are going to dictate the terms of those changes. Nobody is going to ask the MAC leadership what they think about BCS level changes in terms of a playoff and the size, membership and direction of their conference. The MAC is already a non-factor in those discussions. If the MAC needs to make a move on its own, it needs to do so before the BCS schools make the move for them. If that is a separate level of college football somewhere between D-1 and I-AA, then fine. There area already four divisions, would another really hurt?

Would the walls of The Big Dialer really come crashing down if we played all of the same MAC schools and had a OOC schedule of Marshall, Florida Atlantic, Nevada and pick a I-AA school? That would be a Hell of a good schedule. Let the BCS schools play one another without their early season fodder and let the non-BCS schools play some games where they have a chance to win and a chance at a national championship. I-AA or another division could do that.

So Akron pounding Morgan State and more than likely Gardner Webb isn't stealing from our fans? Get off the I-AA and moving down BS.

It is stealing. It is also part of what is wrong with college football when intermixing of teams at vastly different capabilities is allowed. The problem is BCS teams load up on three non-bcs teams a year to pad their wins.

I don't know if what I want is moving down or more of a reorganization of college football. I find it hard to believe that 130 DI teams compete at the same level. I know by the NCAA rules they do, but in reality they don't.

Do some of you really not see the changes coming in the NCAA? If you don't, why not? If you do, what should we do about it is the question.... It seems as if the answer the MAC has is sit around and wait for everyone else to decide what they are going to do and just fall victim to the change. That's a terrible position to take.

[Zipgrad01]

After seeing the 398th post from GP1 calling for the Zips to drop to 1-AA, I got to thinking... has The Great One quantified exactly how much money the Zips Athletics Department would save by dropping it's football program to 1-AA?

Let's begin with 22 scholarships. At a value of $20k/scholarship? That's $440,000.

For Game Day -- Let's fly to the campuses of SE Missouri State, Illinois State, Southern Illinois, Murray State, James Madison etc instead of taking bus trips to Oxford, Toledo, Bowling Green, K.e.n.t., etc. I'm guessing we'd lose about $100k on that deal?

That's puts the savings at roughly $340,000.

At at lower division, we'll save on coach's and Athletic Department salaries...maybe that tacks the $100k back on?

I think you can go back and forth all you want...at best you save $500k if you drop to 1-AA. Being an "equivalent" to a directional Michigan school ain't the sexiest thing in the world... but it beats being Morehead State Junior.

Dropping to 1-AA is not worth saving a measly $500,000 ($20/student).

You need to think harder. My posts have been centered around much more than money. Level competition has always been at the center of my posts. Ideas such as fans not getting ripped off for having to purchase tickets for Miami (OH) vs. Florida have also been at the center of my posts.....Florida is stealing from their fans, and Miami is whoring the football program out....How is that good for college football?

If you do want to talk about money, we can do that. What are the expenses going to be to make the MAC and UofA a real D-1A school that can effectively compete with every other, and that means BCS schools out there? How much "building" can the Univeristy and taxpayers take?....We have a 25,000 seat stadium so how much woudl it be to tripple the size? Can they afford it? Can they support it if it is built.

My opinion has less to do with saving money and more to do with the existing landscape of college football and a desire to watch teams in college football compete at the same level. We are a D-1A school in name only. The MAC is a D-1A conference in name only. There are going to be even more changes in college football over the next five year. The BCS schools are going to dictate the terms of those changes. Nobody is going to ask the MAC leadership what they think about BCS level changes in terms of a playoff and the size, membership and direction of their conference. The MAC is already a non-factor in those discussions. If the MAC needs to make a move on its own, it needs to do so before the BCS schools make the move for them. If that is a separate level of college football somewhere between D-1 and I-AA, then fine. There area already four divisions, would another really hurt?

Would the walls of The Big Dialer really come crashing down if we played all of the same MAC schools and had a OOC schedule of Marshall, Florida Atlantic, Nevada and pick a I-AA school? That would be a Hell of a good schedule. Let the BCS schools play one another without their early season fodder and let the non-BCS schools play some games where they have a chance to win and a chance at a national championship. I-AA or another division could do that.

So Akron pounding Morgan State and more than likely Gardner Webb isn't stealing from our fans? Get off the I-AA and moving down BS.

It is stealing. It is also part of what is wrong with college football when intermixing of teams at vastly different capabilities is allowed. The problem is BCS teams load up on three non-bcs teams a year to pad their wins.

I don't know if what I want is moving down or more of a reorganization of college football. I find it hard to believe that 130 DI teams compete at the same level. I know by the NCAA rules they do, but in reality they don't.

Do some of you really not see the changes coming in the NCAA? If you don't, why not? If you do, what should we do about it is the question.... It seems as if the answer the MAC has is sit around and wait for everyone else to decide what they are going to do and just fall victim to the change. That's a terrible position to take.

300+D1 basketball teams dont compete on the same level either. I can't see college basketball ditching 3/4 of their schools to make things more competitive.

[Zipsrifle]

I for one am convinced that saving money is not something that State run Universities are seriously considering right now. Sure, there might be a lot of people talking about it, but when it comes to actually doing it, very few have, especially in Ohio. As long as schools can continually raise tuition, and still have enrollment increases, why should they? People complain about things all the time, and they are complaining about College tuition just like they were 15 years ago. I don't see a lot of protests breaking out across the state to cut costs. The States aren't really pushing reform either. Remember a year or two ago, we were going to have this DRASTIC change in the University System of Ohio? Remember all the discussions on ZNO about how some schools would be all but shut down? Well, that didn't happen, not even close! Personally I feel that the talk of eliminating athletics is simply a discussion that has to happen so they can "Yes, we explored that option and it didn't make sense for our University...".

I for one am frustrated with this whole situation. IMO, UofA has WAY too much debt right now but Dr. P just keeps spending. I like the results now, but what about the hangover? I also think BILLIONS could be saved in Ohio if we were to drastically reform our college system. Leverage the Internet more, have the schools specialize and kill the small and under performing programs. I don't have all the details work out, but in an hour over lunch, a co-worker and I came up with a plan that made a whole lot of sense. As for Athletics, sure, I don't want the Zips to cut their Athletic programs, but I really don't have much outside of Soccer to financially justify keeping these programs. Personally I think it is a way to keep the Alumni involved in their schools. If Akron didn't have an Athletic program, I wouldn't go back to campus a dozen times a year. Does anyone have any numbers for the money generated from Alumni donations and spending on campus? It would be interesting to see how these numbers stack up.

[GP1]

After seeing the 398th post from GP1 calling for the Zips to drop to 1-AA, I got to thinking... has The Great One quantified exactly how much money the Zips Athletics Department would save by dropping it's football program to 1-AA?

Let's begin with 22 scholarships. At a value of $20k/scholarship? That's $440,000.

For Game Day -- Let's fly to the campuses of SE Missouri State, Illinois State, Southern Illinois, Murray State, James Madison etc instead of taking bus trips to Oxford, Toledo, Bowling Green, K.e.n.t., etc. I'm guessing we'd lose about $100k on that deal?

That's puts the savings at roughly $340,000.

At at lower division, we'll save on coach's and Athletic Department salaries...maybe that tacks the $100k back on?

I think you can go back and forth all you want...at best you save $500k if you drop to 1-AA. Being an "equivalent" to a directional Michigan school ain't the sexiest thing in the world... but it beats being Morehead State Junior.

Dropping to 1-AA is not worth saving a measly $500,000 ($20/student).

You need to think harder. My posts have been centered around much more than money. Level competition has always been at the center of my posts. Ideas such as fans not getting ripped off for having to purchase tickets for Miami (OH) vs. Florida have also been at the center of my posts.....Florida is stealing from their fans, and Miami is whoring the football program out....How is that good for college football?

If you do want to talk about money, we can do that. What are the expenses going to be to make the MAC and UofA a real D-1A school that can effectively compete with every other, and that means BCS schools out there? How much "building" can the Univeristy and taxpayers take?....We have a 25,000 seat stadium so how much woudl it be to tripple the size? Can they afford it? Can they support it if it is built.

My opinion has less to do with saving money and more to do with the existing landscape of college football and a desire to watch teams in college football compete at the same level. We are a D-1A school in name only. The MAC is a D-1A conference in name only. There are going to be even more changes in college football over the next five year. The BCS schools are going to dictate the terms of those changes. Nobody is going to ask the MAC leadership what they think about BCS level changes in terms of a playoff and the size, membership and direction of their conference. The MAC is already a non-factor in those discussions. If the MAC needs to make a move on its own, it needs to do so before the BCS schools make the move for them. If that is a separate level of college football somewhere between D-1 and I-AA, then fine. There area already four divisions, would another really hurt?

Would the walls of The Big Dialer really come crashing down if we played all of the same MAC schools and had a OOC schedule of Marshall, Florida Atlantic, Nevada and pick a I-AA school? That would be a Hell of a good schedule. Let the BCS schools play one another without their early season fodder and let the non-BCS schools play some games where they have a chance to win and a chance at a national championship. I-AA or another division could do that.

So Akron pounding Morgan State and more than likely Gardner Webb isn't stealing from our fans? Get off the I-AA and moving down BS.

It is stealing. It is also part of what is wrong with college football when intermixing of teams at vastly different capabilities is allowed. The problem is BCS teams load up on three non-bcs teams a year to pad their wins.

I don't know if what I want is moving down or more of a reorganization of college football. I find it hard to believe that 130 DI teams compete at the same level. I know by the NCAA rules they do, but in reality they don't.

Do some of you really not see the changes coming in the NCAA? If you don't, why not? If you do, what should we do about it is the question.... It seems as if the answer the MAC has is sit around and wait for everyone else to decide what they are going to do and just fall victim to the change. That's a terrible position to take.

300+D1 basketball teams dont compete on the same level either. I can't see college basketball ditching 3/4 of their schools to make things more competitive.

You're right, they don't. D-IA basketball should downsize as well. It would breed more competition in what has become a meaningless regular season.

[GP1]

I for one am frustrated with this whole situation. IMO, UofA has WAY too much debt right now but Dr. P just keeps spending. I like the results now, but what about the hangover?

Hangover? What hangover? I don't see any problems in our society today with our government and citizens spending like drunken sailors..... Wait a minute, we're as broke as a welfare recipient on the last day of the month.

[MaxZIP]

I for one am frustrated with this whole situation. IMO, UofA has WAY too much debt right now but Dr. P just keeps spending. I like the results now, but what about the hangover?

Hangover? What hangover? I don't see any problems in our society today with our government and citizens spending like drunken sailors..... Wait a minute, we're as broke as a welfare recipient on the last day of the month.

The University has a good bond rating . It is necessary to take on debt to grow as fast as it has. 26.9% growth between 2005 and 2009 is pretty amazing. I would say that the state of the University is strong and the future is bright. Don't let facts get in the way GP.

CREDIT SUMMARY:

UA is nearing the end of an aggressive multi-year and largely debt-funded CIP, which while driving strong enrollment growth, increased financial leverage and more recently began pressuring operations. Full-time equivalents (FTEs) increased a significant 26.9% between fall 2005 and 2009, reaching 21,742. Due to increases in debt service and other expenses associated with the university's recent growth, the margin recently shifted into negative territory, reaching negative 5% in fiscal 2009. Fitch notes that management anticipates a more break-even to positive margin for the fiscal year that recently ended on June 30, 2010.

Despite this deterioration in operating margin, the university buoyed its balance sheet resources over the past several years and established a solid operating cushion. At the end of fiscal 2009, available funds of $226.7 million provided coverage of 51.1% of fiscal 2009 operating expenses and 51.7% of pro-forma debt, up from 34.6% and 45.6% five years prior.

UA's rapid enrollment growth has been an important driver of the historically positive to break-even operating margin as the two largest revenue sources, student-generated revenues and state appropriations, are closely tied to FTEs. Student-generated revenues (net tuition and fees, and auxiliary revenues) increased nearly 30% between fiscal 2005 and 2009, while state appropriations grew nearly 13%. The enrollment growth has supported solid increases in state appropriations in recent years as the state provides operating appropriations based primarily on enrollment levels.

UA's heavy borrowing (over $400 million since 2003) has increased its debt burden, but it remains manageable. Pro-forma maximum annual debt service (MADS) of $32.6 million will be a moderately high 7.7% of fiscal 2009 operating revenues. Importantly, management expects to limit future issuances since the Landscape for Learning capital initiative has largely been completed.

UA is one of 13 public universities in the state of Ohio (general obligation bonds rated 'AA+' with a Stable Outlook by Fitch), and is based in the state's fifth-largest city (general obligation bonds rated 'AA' with a Negative Outlook by Fitch). The university was originally founded in 1870 as Buchtel College and operated as a private, liberal arts institution. UA became a state university in 1967. Today, UA includes five physical locations in northeast Ohio including the main Akron campus, a downtown college (Summit College), and a two-year affiliate (Wayne College) in Orrville, approximately 30 miles southwest of the main campus. UA's main campus includes nine-degree granting colleges, and the nation's largest college of polymer science and polymer engineering.

[MaxZIP]

Should we start a thread about dropping to the Community College ranks? It would be cheaper and business is booming for them. The University is spending money on long overdue upgrades to academic, residence, and athletic facilities. This is part of a broad strategy to make Akron the best option for higher education around. I say keep up the good work. You must build additional facilities if 27% or so more students will be on campus. If you are not moving forward you are going to die in a recession. Most strong businesses and institutions view recessions as opportunities for growth. Halting in the middle of a sweeping strategic plan is not good. The growth must be sustained because it is planned and organized to meet projected needs in future years. Also, do not compare the University of Akron to the broader economy. Higher education is experiencing a boom right now with more students signing on everyday. The national economy and the tax base is shrinking and will undoubtedly have an impact on future funding but it is not a fair comparison. Right now Akron must continue to grow to ensure that it receives a fair share of the funding that will be available. A university is an economic engine in the transition of the economy from a manufacturing-based to a knowledge-based model. Therefore it would be unwise to cut spending on higher education too much in the future for shortsighted social welfare programs. Increasing students will allow the university to realize some savings due to higher volumes of students. Spread the future burden over more students to reduce the impact of funding cuts on individual students.

[GP1]

UA's heavy borrowing (over $400 million since 2003) has increased its debt burden, but it remains manageable.

Remains manageable until it isn't. I read this all the time about government spending as it relates to GDP.

Anyhow, like I keep saying. It isn't droping down. It could just be a realignment of college football.

[GP1]

The University is spending money on long overdue upgrades to academic, residence, and athletic facilities.

I don't disagree. I only care about the football team and being competitive in the MAC and in general against like competition. We can be competitive against the MAC and other non-BCS schools in our own division somewhere between BCS and I-AA. If we don't find a way to make it happen with our conference and other like conferences, the NCAA is going to do it for us.....that will not be good for us.