Jihadists at K...ent???

[Doug Snyder]

@ yaznastyI live in Bali most of the time. Although it is a Muslim country, Bali is 90% Hindu. I know many Muslims and consider many friends. Since we do not get typical US TV (I went 5 years in the US without TV), I get most of my information over the internet. I do read and watch a little Aljazeera and Sky News, BBC, CNN as well as others that are available in Bali. I think you are wrong to assume that no one does their homework. Life's experiences will play a huge role on how people view issues/events. People often say that the media is biased. Yea...sure it is. The question is are they lying or manipulating. I don't think so. Look at the recent World Series games. Game 6 was a classic. The St. Louis papers made Freese out to be a hero. He worked the count and drove a pitch he could hit. Clutch player. The Dallas papers wrote about the failures of the pitcher and the right fielder. Chokers both. Now...did the journalists lie?? Nope. Told from a different point of view. Unless journalists are manipulated, I think most try to tell the truth...as they see it. Same with the Middle East.I like you and your posts. I did not intend this to become a huge political/religious debate. I do think the professor was wrong and should be suspended or terminated. He ambushed a respected guest and made politically insensitive comments prior to walking off. Me?? I would have assumed he quit because he abandoned his job without notice and force him to fight his way back. Here is a dilemma I have with the current political climate with regards to employment. You can oppose abortion with every fiber in your body but are not allowed to withhold your efforts if you work for a health care facility that may perform an abortion. But you are allowed to withhold your efforts if you oppose something politically...the firemen that refused to get on a truck that a US flag was attached to....this professor who walks out after insulting a respected guest of his employer. Me?? I think if you are n health care you can't pick and chose what you are willing to do (and I am against abortion) and I think you better get your ass on the F-ing fire truck. People can always get a new job if they disagree with the legal views of their employer.One more thing. When looking at the history of Israel...you need to go back to the very beginning. Prior to air travel, trains, and ships and long range communication...Israel or Palestine was the key spot in the earth. All trade going from east to west or south had to traverse through Israel/Palestine. Why to do think Jews are good at law, banking and trading??? The people sitting on that land have been conducting those professions before the birth of Muhammad or Jesus. The fight over that real estate has be going on since time began. It will not be an easy solution.In may last job, I had 2 co-workers I considered friends. One was an orthodox Jew who lived 8 years in Israel on a Kibbutz and the other was a Palestinian who emmigrated to the US in his late teens. Both are very bright. It was interesting to listen to each on views of certain events that took place. If you only spoke to one...you would for sure line up behind that viewpoint. And most of the time the viewpoints were 180 degrees from each other. I don't believe either was lying or intentionally manipulating the facts. But personal experiences and culture affect one's point of view. The understanding I gained from that experience was this: The Jew made me aware of how difficult life is when your neighbors #1 goal is to eliminate you and that scud rockets could fall on you or your family at any time. You live in fear. Fear makes you do things a little differently. The Palestinian made me understand how living life with no status or voice made life unbearable. The PLO was corrupt and provided few services and took what little money they had...and the Israelis had no use for you. You were nothing and had even less. This is not an easy problem to solve. Anyone who believes that is not looking at all the facts objectively.And my final word is...fire the professor at the school in Portage County

[Dave in Green]

@Yaznasty, you have cited a long list of observations primarily from the Palestinian view. I've read about them before, and believe they have some merit.As Doug points out, there are honestly different views of everything, and sometimes the views are 180 degrees opposed.For each and every point you cited, there is a corresponding Israeli viewpoint, and those also have some merit.Point is that a neutral party trying to objectively listen to both sides and examine all the evidence would likely come to the conclusion that neither side is entirely right or entirely wrong.That's the conclusion I've come to, and I consider myself to be reasonably fair and open-minded on most issues. I don't automatically come down on one side or another because of religion, ethnicity, or the like. I really do try to look at all aspects of a situation and try to understand how I would feel and how I would react if put into a similar situation.If I were an Israeli living in a small country surrounded by many larger countries calling for my country's death, I would be reluctant to compromise on anything without everyone first agreeing that my country has a right to exist. It does not encourage compromise when others are calling for the death of my country.If I were a Palestinian living in limbo surrounded by people who I thought were taking away my ancestral lands, I would be reluctant to compromise on anything without first being assured that I could have a legitimately recognized country on my ancestral lands. It does not encourage compromise when others are building permanent settlements on my ancestral lands.There are only three options available here:* Continue on the current path of no compromise and no solution to people on both sides slowly suffering and under constant threat of injury or death from sporadic hostile action.* Enter all-out war until one side or the other ceases to be a viable force.* Earnestly seek compromise that allows everyone to live together in dignity and peace.The third and final option is the one that most reasonable people want. But no one really knows how to get there.Unfortunately, I believe that there are many forces at work trying for various reasons to scuttle any peace process and keep the area in eternal turmoil and conflict.Whichever side one may think is most responsible for the problems, I personally don't think it does a lot of good to line up behind one side and loudly and angrily try to pin all the blame on the other side.There's way too much polarization in all aspects of the world today. I think it would be more productive for everyone, no matter which side they may have a tendency to support, to try harder to see and understand the situation from the perspective of the other side.

[GoZips]

Who is kidding who?Islam has fomented hate and treachery through out the world for 1,400 years.Israel is a current popular target of Islam. The blame for terrorism and hatredrests squarely on Islam.Political correctness allows this piece of crap to hold on to his job a Cantville.Had he spoken against blacks or homosexuals they would have fired him inless than a minute.

No body is kidding no body! In my book, Ignorance is defined as the situation when some one is so arrogant to think that his opinion is absolutely true and that he knows it all and he can judge others. Gozips is saying that more than a billion people in this world support a religion that fomented hate and treachery and doing that, the religion survived for 1400 years! He is also saying that the academic system, and the administration of Can't state and the education system in Ohio are wrong and he is right. Also the Ph D holding gentleman is now a piece of crap because he doesn't share his point of view about the political state of Israel. A wise man once said: whenever i debate a wise person, I may win or lose the debate. However, every time i debate an ignorant, I lose the battle. So sure gozips, you're not wrong! everyone else is.

I find your response offensive and full of lies.Frankly, you owe me and everyone on this board an apology.I did not attack you. I stated facts. Hinduism and a number of otherworld wide religions have existed longer than Islam or even Christianity.Certainly Judaism is the better part of 6,000 years old. Yet, none of thesereligions strap bombs on their children to go murder innocent people.None of them advocate the violent over throw of other religions. Islam does.That makes Islam hateful. Are there innocent, decent people who practiceIslam? Yes, and sadly they must wear the mantle provided by the teachers and leaders of Islam. A man holding a Ph.D does not necessary make him a good man. A man whodisrupts, lacks respect of others and shouts hate filled remarks is for all intentsand purposes EVIL.

[Valpo Zip]

I find your response offensive and full of lies.

Can you please show me where exactly I lied?

Frankly, you owe me and everyone on this board an apology.

1 - Don't drag every one else into this.2 - I come to this page to enjoy discussing the teams I am passionate about. I login and find you, out of no where and with no reason whatsoever insulting my religion...but i owe you an apology???!!!!

I did not attack you.

You don't think that attacking my belief falls under attacking me?

I stated facts.

Off course! that's your persona! you think that your opinions are all facts.

None of them advocate the violent over throw of other religions. Islam does. That makes Islam hateful.

Again! that's another one of your "facts". Terrorizing others is forbidden in the Quran and spoken against by prophet Muhammad but all that doesn't matter because you said so! who am I to question your facts? At the end of the day, I am not trying to change your mind, nor am i looking for an apology from you... I do however apologize to the other readers for filling the space with a topic with little to no interest to them. I shouldn't have allowed you to push my buttons. If you are really interested in having an educated hate-free discussion, PM me and i will be happy to invite you for a cup of coffee.

[yazan07]

Hmm this has gotten interesting. All I will really say is it is very difficult for me to be unbiased because of the experiences I have had as well as the experiences my family members have had. Those of you who are unbiased are probably better off for it, and I really appreciate your willingness to listen to my perspective. I am sorry if I underestimated anyone's knowledge on the subject, I don't really know what everyone's background here is. For those of you providing insightful perspectives, thank you for fostering intelligent discussion. Hope I didn't upset anyone.

[Dave in Green]

@Yaznasty and @Ada Zip, you both represent your opinions with dignity and class. You do not need to apologize to anyone for speaking out in that manner.I have thought a lot about the problem faced in America by good and decent Palestinians and other followers of the Islamic faith. America invested the lives of many of its citizens during World War II at least in part to stop Nazi Germany from slaughtering people of the Jewish faith. America supported the formation of the country of Israel at least in part to give people of the Jewish faith a home country where they could live in safety from persecution.America was founded on the principle of freedom of religion. There is no reason that this should not also extend to Palestinians and other followers of the Islamic faith. But the conflict between Palestinians and other Muslims with the ability of Jewish people to have freedom and security in Israel creates a huge problem for most Americans.Ideally, most Americans would want followers of both the Jewish and Islamic faith to be able to live together in peace as good neighbors. But we do not know how to make this happen. Each side tells us that the other side is evil and will not allow peace to happen. Who are we to believe?It's true that those of the Jewish faith are well represented in America, and they have spokespeople who represent their side in an effecitve way. This is not true of those who follow the Islamic faith. Instead of credible spokespeople trying to tell us their side of the story in a calm and reasoned manner, we have college professors standing up and yelling "Death to Israel!"This will not work in America, period, end of story.This is not only not productive, it is counter-productive. Yelling "death" to anyone or anything is just plain un-American.This suggests to Americans that Muslims are nothing but terrorists and killers, even though that is certainly not true.The truth is that there are terrorists and killers of every faith -- Muslim, Jewish, Christian, whatever. But the vast majority of each faith are decent, peace-loving citizens.Those of the Muslim faith desperately need a good spokesperson who represents the majority of decent, peace-loving Muslims. Muslims desperately need a peace-loving leader like Mohandas Gandhi, Nelson Mandella or Martin Luther King.I do not like to think of the consequences to the world if this does not happen.

[Valpo Zip]

Thank you Dave for your nice words. I totally agree with every word you typed. I understand and respect the public opinion about these issues and I have conversations with friends and colleagues on an almost daily basis without one of us insulting the others.Let me tell you that if I ever get the chance to meet with Dr. Pino or whatever his name is, and if he asks for my opinion of what he did, i will give him an earful.However, as an academic person, I will be really disturbed if his job is risked because he expressed his personal opinion about a political topic outside the class room.And by the way, I do not have any Palestinian roots and have no horses in the middle east conflict. I only have an informed opinion about that subject. It is when the religion of Islam was insulted that I had to jump in and take it personal.Thanks again for your nice reply and Go Zips!