Western Michigan discussion

[wadszip]

Let's talk about the MAC opener.

I'll be the first to admit, I thought Western Michigan was going to a cellar-dweller in the West. They lost four of their five top players from last year in Flenard Whitfield, Demetrius Ward, Mike Douglas and Matt Stainbrook (even though he was in the doghouse much of the year, he still was one of their top players ... and the ugliest, most annoying player in college basketball). But Nate Hutcheson is back, and Dan Hawkins is one of the better coaches in the MAC and has the Broncos playing well.

With that said, I like that we get what appears to be a better than expected team to open league play, and at home. Still, this should be a 10-plus point Akron win.

1. Akron shut down Hutcheson last year, though part of that was due to Quincy's defense. Still, between Kretzer, Harney and Gilliam, the Zips still have the size to bother him.

2. On top of Hutcheson, the Broncos next two top scorers are also bigs in Shayne Wittington and freshman Darius Paul (not the matchup teams in the MAC want against the Zips). The combo of Zeke and Pat should contain Wittington (who has played well), and Harney and Tree seem to match up well with Paul, who from looking at the stats, seems to have hit a wall. He's shooting 36 percent from the field since December 1, including 0-14 from 3-point range.

3. The Zips are deeper

4. The Zips are at home

5. The Zips have owned Western Michigan, winning the last 10 in the series. Last year was close in Kalamazoo, but that was thanks to the play of Douglas, Whitfield and Ward, all who are no longer there.

Since Western Michigan has played well, including a nice road win at South Florida, this is a game the Zips can come out of the gate and let the rest of the MAC know who the team to beat is. I know talk doesn't mean much, but from reading the MAC BBS board, the general talk is that this league race is up in the air (because Akron and Ohio's "struggles"). The Zips can make an early statement by handling business in a week.

[EA3]

I can't with a straight face predict a road win for my Broncos. Akron is at home, has our number, is deeper, and is much more experienced....not to mention more skilled.

We really struggle scoring the ball during stretches due to our lack of a "go to" guy. Last year we dumped it into the post every possession, that's not going to happen this year. Our bigs are skilled, but they aren't the traditional back to the basket type scorers.

Two matchups really worry me. Abreu and Treadwell are a nightmare for us. I wouldn't say we have an edge at any position at this point. Even the Harney vs Hutcheson matchup would be a push right now.

That said, I expect us to be even or ahead in the rebounding battle...and we will likely turn the ball over 15-18 times.

We have 4 frosh in our top 8 in the rotation. When it's all said and done, I'd predict a 12 point win by Akron.

Oh, one last thing...our offense is completely different than what you are accustomed to seeing from Steve Hawkins at WMU. The new one is very much like what Buffalo runs.

I won't be making the trip for this one. Good luck fellas.

If we can't pull one out at your place, I'm hoping we can steal one from Ohio on Saturday. The MAC didn't do us any favors by starting our first two games against #1 and #2

[EA3]

Also, I realize it was a 3 point OT win for you guys at our place last year...but really, the story was the poor shooting from Akron. 3/20 from 3 range.

I don't expect the same performance at all. If you guys shoot 15% from deep at home...sign my up for a barn burner or a Bronco win.

Side note...I don't know if any of you had heard, but apparently last year there was an issue with one of our rims before the game. Dambrot or one of his assistants asked for it to be measured. I think the rim height was off by like 3/4 of an inch or so (that's the story I heard) and we had to adjust it. I thought this was a funny story. Small mind game by Akron, that backfired with a 3/20 shooting performance...but ultimately escaped with a win, which is all that matters.

[ZZZips]

"Dan Hawkins is one of the better coaches in the MAC"

Steve Hawkins is his name and he is the most obnoxious coach in the MAC.

Let's talk about the MAC opener.

I'll be the first to admit, I thought Western Michigan was going to a cellar-dweller in the West. They lost four of their five top players from last year in Flenard Whitfield, Demetrius Ward, Mike Douglas and Matt Stainbrook (even though he was in the doghouse much of the year, he still was one of their top players ... and the ugliest, most annoying player in college basketball). But Nate Hutcheson is back, and Dan Hawkins is one of the better coaches in the MAC and has the Broncos playing well.

With that said, I like that we get what appears to be a better than expected team to open league play, and at home. Still, this should be a 10-plus point Akron win.

1. Akron shut down Hutcheson last year, though part of that was due to Quincy's defense. Still, between Kretzer, Harney and Gilliam, the Zips still have the size to bother him.

2. On top of Hutcheson, the Broncos next two top scorers are also bigs in Shayne Wittington and freshman Darius Paul (not the matchup teams in the MAC want against the Zips). The combo of Zeke and Pat should contain Wittington (who has played well), and Harney and Tree seem to match up well with Paul, who from looking at the stats, seems to have hit a wall. He's shooting 36 percent from the field since December 1, including 0-14 from 3-point range.

3. The Zips are deeper

4. The Zips are at home

5. The Zips have owned Western Michigan, winning the last 10 in the series. Last year was close in Kalamazoo, but that was thanks to the play of Douglas, Whitfield and Ward, all who are no longer there.

Since Western Michigan has played well, including a nice road win at South Florida, this is a game the Zips can come out of the gate and let the rest of the MAC know who the team to beat is. I know talk doesn't mean much, but from reading the MAC BBS board, the general talk is that this league race is up in the air (because Akron and Ohio's "struggles"). The Zips can make an early statement by handling business in a week.

[Big Zip]

Last weekend I watched WMU play NC State close for a half and then they ran out of steam. I was pretty impressed with their discipline during the first half but it started to fade toward the end of the half -- game was 32-32 with 2 minutes to go in the half -- half time score was 43-36.

The second half it really trailed off. It appeared to me they weren't very deep as a lot guys seemed to play the bulk of the minutes which could bode well for us.

[GoZips]

Last weekend I watched WMU play NC State close for a half and then they ran out of steam. I was pretty impressed with their discipline during the first half but it started to fade toward the end of the half -- game was 32-32 with 2 minutes to go in the half -- half time score was 43-36.

The second half it really trailed off. It appeared to me they weren't very deep as a lot guys seemed to play the bulk of the minutes which could bode well for us.

Looking at WMU's depth chart it is easy to see why they faded in the second half against a big, athletic squad like NC State.

WMU starters average 27 to 31 minutes a game. WMU is basically seven players deep.

If the Zips keep on the full court pressure, rotate the players and have any kind of a decent shooting and rebounding game

WMU is likely go down in flames.

[BirdZip]

I'm most interested in seeing how the players approach this game. KD once again said post-game last night that the "real season" (as he calls it) starts next Wednesday. I want to see the Zips come out from the tipoff and attack like they want to win by 60 so we can see just how good this Zips team is.

If I am to THINK BIGGER then I also will EXPECT BETTER. I hope my expectations are met on Thursday.

If we're as good as we think we are and truly want to talk about making a run in the NCAA tournament, this game shouldn't be close. WMU is a pretender. Zips by 20.

[Quickzips]

We have 4 frosh in our top 8 in the rotation. When it's all said and done, I'd predict a 12 point win by Akron.

The Zips have 4 frosh in our rotation as well. Only difference is our rotation goes 11 deep.

[Zipmeister]

I can't with a straight face predict a road win for my Broncos. Akron is at home, has our number, is deeper, and is much more experienced....not to mention more skilled.

We really struggle scoring the ball during stretches due to our lack of a "go to" guy. Last year we dumped it into the post every possession, that's not going to happen this year. Our bigs are skilled, but they aren't the traditional back to the basket type scorers.

Two matchups really worry me. Abreu and Treadwell are a nightmare for us. I wouldn't say we have an edge at any position at this point. Even the Harney vs Hutcheson matchup would be a push right now.

That said, I expect us to be even or ahead in the rebounding battle...and we will likely turn the ball over 15-18 times.

We have 4 frosh in our top 8 in the rotation. When it's all said and done, I'd predict a 12 point win by Akron.

Oh, one last thing...our offense is completely different than what you are accustomed to seeing from Steve Hawkins at WMU. The new one is very much like what Buffalo runs.

I won't be making the trip for this one. Good luck fellas.

If we can't pull one out at your place, I'm hoping we can steal one from Ohio on Saturday. The MAC didn't do us any favors by starting our first two games against #1 and #2

Actually, no one here can see your face so if you want to predict a Bronco W, go ahead.

[Z.I.P.]

Let's talk about the MAC opener.

I'll be the first to admit, I thought Western Michigan was going to a cellar-dweller in the West. They lost four of their five top players from last year in Flenard Whitfield, Demetrius Ward, Mike Douglas and Matt Stainbrook (even though he was in the doghouse much of the year, he still was one of their top players ... and the ugliest, most annoying player in college basketball). But Nate Hutcheson is back, and Dan Hawkins is one of the better coaches in the MAC and has the Broncos playing well.

With that said, I like that we get what appears to be a better than expected team to open league play, and at home. Still, this should be a 10-plus point Akron win.

Folks, there are two things you can bet about Western Michigan mens hoops: When everyone thinks in the preseason that they will be a title contender, they will be awful; And when everyone thinks they will be awful...they will be the most improved team in the MAC. Look back over just about every year of Steve Hawkins' reign in Kalamazoo, and you will see how that's played out. I'm a bit surprised Steve has lasted this long -- BUT, I have to say, I think Hawkins is near the top of the MAC in coaching (I have one coach I prefer, guess which one). And I have to say, Steve's one of the classiest guys in the coaching profession -- he's the only coach who's ever come up (right after a game nonetheless) to thank me for rooting for our league teams. I'd put him character wise, right up there with my faves, Keith Dambrot and Coleman Crawford. One other thing you can win a bet on: Coach Hawkins' age. He's actually 40, not 60.

[Quickzips]

Folks, there are two things you can bet about Western Michigan mens hoops: When everyone thinks in the preseason that they will be a title contender, they will be awful; And when everyone thinks they will be awful...they will be the most improved team in the MAC. Look back over just about every year of Steve Hawkins' reign in Kalamazoo, and you will see how that's played out. I'm a bit surprised Steve has lasted this long -- BUT, I have to say, I think Hawkins is near the top of the MAC in coaching (I have one coach I prefer, guess which one). And I have to say, Steve's one of the classiest guys in the coaching profession -- he's the only coach who's ever come up (right after a game nonetheless) to thank me for rooting for our league teams. I'd put him character wise, right up there with my faves, Keith Dambrot and Coleman Crawford. One other thing you can win a bet on: Coach Hawkins' age. He's actually 40, not 60.

Actually, there are three things you can say about WMU mens hoops. The third?

They will lose to Akron.

[johnnyzip84]

I think it's a classic case of addition by subtraction with WMU. They have been talented over the last few years, but always seemed in disarray and lacking in cohesion. Hawkins seems to have more control over this bunch. Nevertheless, I agree the Zips should win in fairly comfortable fashion.

[Zipmeister]

I am going to predict a 14 point victory for the Zips despite the fact that my statistical analysis indicates the Broncos are the 6th best bball team with the word "west" in their university name.

[EA3]

Actually, no one here can see your face so if you want to predict a Bronco W, go ahead.

I'm not stranger. It's fairly easy to figure out who I am if you use social media. And, while I'm a homer, I'm not dumb enough to predict a road win against the defending league champions who look to be the clear favorite this year as well.

For those of you wondering about Hawkins. He parlayed the 2010-11 season into a 5 year extension. His contract was coming up and he went 21-13 that year, with a second round CIT exit...and of course another MAC postseason loss to Akron. We had just graduated Kool the year before, and two other starters. He had brought Howard Jr and Stainbrook in as frosh, who both looked to be impact players. Shortly after the extension, everything went to heck. Howard transferred right before the school year started. Stainbrook never lost weight, and was booted this spring. And our seniors didn't play nearly to their capability. The addition by subtraction comment was dead on so far. Anyhow, he's got 3 more years left on his contract AFTER this season. The good news is he brought in a great freshman class and the team has been playing above expectations so far.

One of our Rivals guys tweeted that this matchup features two coaches with 300+ wins each. I can't remember the last time two MAC teams could boast such. I know Coles got to 300, but I don't know who the last one he would have coached against. Any thoughts?

[EA3]

I am going to predict a 14 point victory for the Zips despite the fact that my statistical analysis indicates the Broncos are the 6th best bball team with the word "west" in their university name.

I concede the following:

West Virginia

Western Illinois

Western Kentucky

Northwestern

Although, I'd like to play those games to determine such on the court.

However, I do not concede the following is better:

Western Carolina

[Zipmeister]

I'm not stranger. It's fairly easy to figure out who I am if you use social media. And, while I'm a homer, I'm not dumb enough to predict a road win against the defending league champions who look to be the clear favorite this year as well.

For those of you wondering about Hawkins. He parlayed the 2010-11 season into a 5 year extension. His contract was coming up and he went 21-13 that year, with a second round CIT exit...and of course another MAC postseason loss to Akron. We had just graduated Kool the year before, and two other starters. He had brought Howard Jr and Stainbrook in as frosh, who both looked to be impact players. Shortly after the extension, everything went to heck. Howard transferred right before the school year started. Stainbrook never lost weight, and was booted this spring. And our seniors didn't play nearly to their capability. The addition by subtraction comment was dead on so far. Anyhow, he's got 3 more years left on his contract AFTER this season. The good news is he brought in a great freshman class and the team has been playing above expectations so far.

One of our Rivals guys tweeted that this matchup features two coaches with 300+ wins each. I can't remember the last time two MAC teams could boast such. I know Coles got to 300, but I don't know who the last one he would have coached against. Any thoughts?

Interesting question, but I have another....

You're not stranger than what?

[johnnyzip84]

I concede the following:

West Virginia

Western Illinois

Western Kentucky

Northwestern

Although, I'd like to play those games to determine such on the court.

However, I do not concede the following is better:

Western Carolina

It's interesting that you mention Western Carolina, because I suspect Larry Hunter was probably involved the last time 2 MAC opponents had coaches with 300+ career wins. But the other coach wouldn't have been Charley Coles, because when Hunter was fired by OU in 2001, CC hadn't reached 300 yet. Hmmm still pondering.....

[EA3]

Interesting question, but I have another....

You're not stranger than what?

LOL...please disregard my omission.

[EA3]

Just realized WMU's Bob Donewald ended with 359 wins. 152 at WMU.

That would have put him at 300 win during the 1995-96 season. He ended that season with 303 I believe. He coached another 4 seasons.

96-97

97-98

98-99

99-00

Anyone remember who he would have coached against in the MAC that would have 300 wins during those years?

[johnnyzip84]

Just realized WMU's Bob Donewald ended with 359 wins. 152 at WMU.

That would have put him at 300 win during the 1995-96 season. He ended that season with 303 I believe. He coached another 4 seasons.

96-97

97-98

98-99

99-00

Anyone remember who he would have coached against in the MAC that would have 300 wins during those years?

Uhhhhh, Larry Hunter for $1000 Alex?

[EA3]

Uhhhhh, Larry Hunter for $1000 Alex?

Didn't reach 300 wins by the 1999-00 season. He was closer to 200 at that time.

Still searching...I've ruled out CMU, Toledo, BGSU, Akron, Can't, Miami, and Ohio during that time frame.

[EA3]

Didn't reach 300 wins by the 1999-00 season. He was closer to 200 at that time.

Still searching...I've ruled out CMU, Toledo, BGSU, Akron, Can't, Miami, and Ohio during that time frame.

Bob Donewald (WMU) vs Ben Braun (EMU) in the 1995-96 season missed the mark by 17 days. Donewald reach 300 wins 17 days after he played EMU. Close...no cigar.

[johnnyzip84]

Didn't reach 300 wins by the 1999-00 season. He was closer to 200 at that time.

Still searching...I've ruled out CMU, Toledo, BGSU, Akron, Can't, Miami, and Ohio during that time frame.

Almost 100 of KD's 300 wins were at the D2 level (Ashland and Tiffin). Often when a coach's total number of wins is quoted, it includes those at all collegiate levels. Hunter easily had 300+ in 1999, if you include his Wittenberg tenure (he reached 600 at WCU recently).

[EA3]

Almost 100 of KD's 300 wins were at the D2 level (Ashland and Tiffin). Often when a coach's total number of wins is quoted, it includes those at all collegiate levels. Hunter easily had 300+ in 1999 if you include his Wittenberg tenure (he reached 600 at WCU recently).

ah. His wiki page doesn't include DIII.

I would say that would likely be the winner then.

[Zipmeister]

I concede the following:

West Virginia

Western Illinois

Western Kentucky

Northwestern

Although, I'd like to play those games to determine such on the court.

However, I do not concede the following is better:

Western Carolina

Sagarin has W. Mich. behind Northwestern, West Virginia, Western KY, Western Illinois and.............................................................. ................................................................. ................................................................................

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NORTHWESTERN STATE!!!!