Pluto: Frye Would Backup if Season Started Today

[sgm405]

ARTICLEIf the Browns had to open the season today, the quarterback probably would be Derek Anderson. That's the word from some with the Browns, but it's written in pencil, and keep in mind that Anderson is being judged on drills where they wear shorts and helmets and the quarterback is not being sacked. He has the strongest arm of the three candidates, and it will look the best in this type of minicamp setting.That said, the Browns also believe Anderson showed some promise in the four games he played last season. He completed 63 percent of his passes, five for touchdowns, with eight interceptions. His stats were skewed a bit because he was terrible in his final start, completing 10-of-27 with four interceptions and a QB rating of 12.1 against the Tampa Bay Buccaneers. He also suffered a separated shoulder in that game.New offensive coordinator Rob Chudzinski has a new offense, and all three quarterbacks have been struggling to grasp the different motions and formations. This takes away some of the advantage that incumbent Charlie Frye would have. Brady Quinn is a rookie, so it's no surprise he has been overwhelmed. All three have been at some point.Frye's best moments have been in the two-minute drills when he has been on the move around the pocket. His advantage is having played against the Cincinnati Bengals, Baltimore Ravens, Pittsburgh Steelers and Oakland Raiders, the first four opponents on this year's schedule. He knows their defenses, and with 18 pro starts, he has more experience than anyone else.Listening to General Manager Phil Savage, it's obvious the quarterback spot is wide open, and Anderson definitely has a legitimate chance to become the starter. It's between Frye and Anderson, and it might not be decided until the middle of the exhibition season.

[bobbyake]

No matter what the Beacon Urinal writes or how much you hate him, Frye is going to be the starter.

[GoZips]

BOBBY, you got it exactly. Frye is the Clowns QB until he proves otherwise. And thatwont happen any time soon.Inane remarks by posters who actually know almost nothing about football aside, theClowns have an offense problem. That problem neither begins with or ends with thequarterback position. Terry Pluto never was and is not currently a football mind. Hemostly knows a sport played with a Guatemala made spheroid.The objective was to build around the quarterback. Remember? Only truly STUPIDmanagement does what the Clowns did. "Fix" a position that did not need fixing.Intelligent football minds develop a plan. Then they stick to it with small, not major,corrections. Obviously, the Clowns have no plan. Its a kin to stabbing a flying chickenin a dark room with a table fork.It is too bad that the Clowns wont play their darling, sissy boy right out of the gate.I'd love to watch the rants that fill the air of Northeast Ohio if they made that blunder.The fun part is that Crennel and Savage must win now or they both are out of a job.Once again, a mindless, senile old coot with way too much money screws up his petsports team by meddling.To win now the Clowns needed to repair the porous offensive line and shore up a coupleof weak spots on defense. They did neither. Expect the same results as last year, orworse. Of course, blame Charley. Remember, SGM blames Charley for getting sacked 45 times last season. Best hope for Charley Frye is getting traded to the Chicago Bears. He'll get HIS SuperBowl ring quickly in that organization.I said it before and I'll say it again. Charley Frye will be wearing a Super Bowl ring heearned before the Clowns get to the Super Bowl.

[Big Zip]

GoZips I appreciate your enthusiasm for Charlie and feel he'll start, but to say they haven't addressed the porous offensive line puts you in the absolutely no credibility side of this argument you should have stopped while you were ahead. If you think getting the top LT in the draft and the top LG in free agency isn't addressing they porous offensive line --your high!

[bobbyake]

Brady Quinn is ticket insurance for the Browns. If Frye screws up, the fans will still have hope that Brady Quinn will turn things aroun in the future. Give fans some kind of hope for the future and tickets will sell. I honestly don't think the Browns have been persuing a championship as hard as other franchises because they don't have to in order to make big profits.I don't think Anderson has a chance because he's not a quarterback that will sell tickets. Frye, a local boy, still gives fans hope in him. Brady Quinn, also a local boy, will be tomorrows hope if Frye can't cut it.Let's be honest, people around here still have hope in the local boy.

[sgm405]

BOBBY, you got it exactly. Frye is the Clowns QB until he proves otherwise. And thatwont happen any time soon.Inane remarks by posters who actually know almost nothing about football aside, theClowns have an offense problem. That problem neither begins with or ends with thequarterback position. Terry Pluto never was and is not currently a football mind. Hemostly knows a sport played with a Guatemala made spheroid.The objective was to build around the quarterback. Remember? Only truly STUPIDmanagement does what the Clowns did. "Fix" a position that did not need fixing.Intelligent football minds develop a plan. Then they stick to it with small, not major,corrections. Obviously, the Clowns have no plan. Its a kin to stabbing a flying chickenin a dark room with a table fork.It is too bad that the Clowns wont play their darling, sissy boy right out of the gate.I'd love to watch the rants that fill the air of Northeast Ohio if they made that blunder.The fun part is that Crennel and Savage must win now or they both are out of a job.Once again, a mindless, senile old coot with way too much money screws up his petsports team by meddling.To win now the Clowns needed to repair the porous offensive line and shore up a coupleof weak spots on defense. They did neither. Expect the same results as last year, orworse. Of course, blame Charley. Remember, SGM blames Charley for getting sacked 45 times last season. Best hope for Charley Frye is getting traded to the Chicago Bears. He'll get HIS SuperBowl ring quickly in that organization.I said it before and I'll say it again. Charley Frye will be wearing a Super Bowl ring heearned before the Clowns get to the Super Bowl.

Some random responses...1) What makes Brady Quinn a "darling, sissy boy"? I've heard nothing but praise about the way he plays the game and the toughness that he has. Seriously, what makes Charlie Frye any tougher than he is? 2) As Big Zip noted - if signed the best free agent LG and drafting the best LT in college football (along with signing Bentley last year) isn't doing everything possible to address the O-Line, I don't know what is. 3) You contradict yourself a great deal. You say that the Browns are desperate to win...which is true. Seeing as through Frye's competition is a rookie and a career backup, shouldn't he be able to win the starting job if he really is as good as you say he is? If they are really desperate for success, wouldn't they be pushing for Frye if he was as good as you say he is?4) The Bears don't want Charlie Frye. They already have a bad QB, don't need two. 5) Just bears repeating:Frye 2006 - 252 of 392, 2454 yds, 64%, 10 TD, 17 INT, 44 Sacks, 72 RAT NFL Rank:YDS - 23rdYPA - 26thTD - 27thINT - 27thSK - 26thPCT - 5thRAT - 26thSo unless we're building an offense around screen passes, I don't think he's shown any signs of being successful.Look, I wish he were doing better...because he's a UA alum, because I don't like Brady Quinn (as a player I do)...but most of all because I want the Browns to win. But - if you take off the Zips blinders - you'll see that he's been nothing but mediocre, and is - in all honesty - lucky to even be competing for a starting QB job in the league with his past performance.

[GoZips]

BIG ZIP ... just how many players constitute an offensive line?A normal line up is seven. A center with a guard, a tackle and a tight end on eitherside of him. Often in the NFL one tight end is replaced by a wide receiver positionedthree to five steps outside the offensive line. Right?Do you recall the Clowns going to a two tight end set to slow down the carnage?It helped a little. But, not a lot as K2 is not a blocking TE. He'd rather catch the ball.What TE did the Browns get to help the blocking? For that matter, which of the five interior linemen from 2006 would you want blocking for you when you are under center?Answer ... none of them. Two plugs in that leaky dike do not fix the hemorrhage.Best we can hope for is that Thomas gives Charley another second to throw.Personally, I hope Jamal Lewis is still a premier running back. Lewis, far more thanthat pathetic, undermanned O-line, is Charlie's best hope. If the defenders have tocover the run, then Charley will have some time to throw the damned ball.I think its the damned ball. All those muscle dudes say that ... "give me the damned ball."

[sgm405]

BIG ZIP ... just how many players constitute an offensive line?A normal line up is seven. A center with a guard, a tackle and a tight end on eitherside of him. Often in the NFL one tight end is replaced by a wide receiver positionedthree to five steps outside the offensive line. Right?Do you recall the Clowns going to a two tight end set to slow down the carnage?It helped a little. But, not a lot as K2 is not a blocking TE. He'd rather catch the ball.What TE did the Browns get to help the blocking? For that matter, which of the five interior linemen from 2006 would you want blocking for you when you are under center?Answer ... none of them. Two plugs in that leaky dike do not fix the hemorrhage.Best we can hope for is that Thomas gives Charley another second to throw.Personally, I hope Jamal Lewis is still a premier running back. Lewis, far more thanthat pathetic, undermanned O-line, is Charlie's best hope. If the defenders have tocover the run, then Charley will have some time to throw the damned ball.I think its the damned ball. All those muscle dudes say that ... "give me the damned ball."

You do realize that if they replaced Winslow with a blocking tight end he'd lose his best screen-ass option, right? Oh, and did you totally forget Steinbach?

[GoZips]

SGM ... you are a plant from Cant Cut It State .. right?Responding to your whines ..1) "darling, sissy boy" ... we all saw BQ on Draft Day. He looked for all the world to beauditioning for the lead role in Little Lord Faunteroy. He looked so cute with crocodiletears. He had his own private room away from prying cameras. He looked so cute thefreaking Clowns made him cut his freaking hair. Oh, yeah, he looks like he's ready fora beer commercial. If its pink.2) If picking up two players, one a kid fresh out of college, is addressing the totaloffensive line problems then I'll be vilified. Until that happens, and it wont, I standby my assessment. As for Sir Le Charles, what makes you think he is going to studup when professional analysts and doctors are saying he probably will never playagain?3) Where in my posts do I use the phrase "desperate to win?". Those are your words.Nor do I contradict myself other than blatant chides.Where have I ever likened Charley Frye to a great quarterback? Certainly not in theserecent posts. In fact, nothing I stated raises Charley to any level other than serviceable.It takes several years to develop an NFL quarterback. I think Charley has earned theopportunity to continue developing.4) What an asinine remark. Charley Frye is definitely not a bad quarterback. Yourbias, much like your slip, is showing.5) In your skewed (as in not factual) statistics (proven by others in other posts that alot of your numbers are fabricated) you BLAME Charley for all the sacks he endured.The reasonable understanding is that sacks are caused by ineffective offensive lines.But, then, when have you been reasonable?A wise old granny use to say, God rest her soul, "wish in one hand and shit in the other,then see which one fills up first". For the Clowns to become the Browns again willrequire an enormous amount of hard work.

[sgm405]

SGM ... you are a plant from Cant Cut It State .. right?Responding to your whines ..1) "darling, sissy boy" ... we all saw BQ on Draft Day. He looked for all the world to beauditioning for the lead role in Little Lord Faunteroy. He looked so cute with crocodiletears. He had his own private room away from prying cameras. He looked so cute thefreaking Clowns made him cut his freaking hair. Oh, yeah, he looks like he's ready fora beer commercial. If its pink.2) If picking up two players, one a kid fresh out of college, is addressing the totaloffensive line problems then I'll be vilified. Until that happens, and it wont, I standby my assessment. As for Sir Le Charles, what makes you think he is going to studup when professional analysts and doctors are saying he probably will never playagain?3) Where in my posts do I use the phrase "desperate to win?". Those are your words.Nor do I contradict myself other than blatant chides.Where have I ever likened Charley Frye to a great quarterback? Certainly not in theserecent posts. In fact, nothing I stated raises Charley to any level other than serviceable.It takes several years to develop an NFL quarterback. I think Charley has earned theopportunity to continue developing.4) What an asinine remark. Charley Frye is definitely not a bad quarterback. Yourbias, much like your slip, is showing.5) In your skewed (as in not factual) statistics (proven by others in other posts that alot of your numbers are fabricated) you BLAME Charley for all the sacks he endured.The reasonable understanding is that sacks are caused by ineffective offensive lines.But, then, when have you been reasonable?A wise old granny use to say, God rest her soul, "wish in one hand and shit in the other,then see which one fills up first". For the Clowns to become the Browns again willrequire an enormous amount of hard work.

I'm from Can't State because I think Charlie Frye is a mediocre NFL QB? Good reasoning...good God we have some idiots on this board. To respond to your responses...1) So basically, you have nothing to support your opinion that Brady Quinn is a sissy. Because he looked disappointed for falling further down than he was expected to go in the Draft? Good reason...2) What do you expect them to do for the offensive line? What more can you do than sign the best free agent and draft the best college player? And my reason for bringing up Bentley was that they signed the best FA o-lineman last year as well, but just had bad luck with his injury. 3) "The fun part is that Crennel and Savage must win now or they both are out of a job." = Maybe you didn't use the exact wording, but it's basically the same point. 4) What bias? Bias against bad QBs? He's in the bottom part of just about every category...how is that not bad? 5) Skewed statistics? How? Sure, Charlie hasn't had much around him...but if he was any good, wouldn't he still show at least SOME signs of improvement? Wouldn't he at least do SOMETHING well?

[skip-zip]

SGM. Over and over again you try to prove a point by showing Charlie's poor statistics, and you continue to forget that everyone here has told you that his numbers are equal to, or better, than the NFL's current starting quarterbacks in their first year as a starter, INCLUDING PEYTON MANNING.This doesn't mean he is going to be great. But it surely tells us that NFL history is showing that you surely cannot say that he will not be a good QB at this point in his career.If he's still performing poorly a few years from now, with a good team around him, then fine.

[Big Zip]

All I'm going to say about addressing the offensive line is I've stated to others numerous times that I don't think the problems with the Browns line are as bad as others have made them out to be from a talent perspective in the past. Browns offensive lineman have gone on to be solid o-lineman elsewhere. Three off the top fo my head Sean O'Hare (just signed a big free-agent contract with the Giant), Jeff Faine (alternate to the Pro-Bowl last year), and Rueben Brown left Cleveland and was the LT anchor the following year a playoff SD Charger team. The other offensive lineman in Cleveland will prove to be better than advertised when the have an o-line coach that can get them working together (my belief). Seth McKinney has the potential to be a better than average RG and Kevin Shaffer (if he can make the shift to RT) won't be protecting the blind side any longer (like he did in Atlanta and was successful -- in the ATL it was LT for the left-handed Vick). Hank Fraley is a pretty good Center too -- played many years for playoff and Super Bowl Eagles teams. I wish Bentley the best and with any luck he'll be back. On a side note if Gary Baxter is playing in the home opener (as he predicts) he maybe the toughest man on the planet.

[sgm405]

SGM.  Over and over again you try to prove a point by showing Charlie's poor statistics, and you continue to forget that everyone here has told you that his numbers are equal to, or better, than the NFL's current starting quarterbacks in their first year as a starter, INCLUDING PEYTON MANNING.This doesn't mean he is going to be great.  But it surely tells us that NFL history is showing that you surely cannot say that he will not be a good QB at this point in his career.If he's still performing poorly a few years from now, with a good team around him, then fine.

I understand that, but there's two things that make me believe Charlie is nothing more than average:1) He doesn't have the raw, physical gifts of those quarterbacks. Sure, Peyton Manning struggled early on. But Peyton Manning also had raw physical ability that you knew - when molded and developed - would make him a superstar. Charlie doesn't have the arm and natural ability - IMO - to develop into anything more than an average QB.2) I really don't feel Frye got that much better from 2005 to 2006. He did the same things, made the same mistakes. Those other QB's constantly improved their game in their developmental process. Frye 05 - 60%, 4 TD, 5 INT, 6.1 YPA, 72.8 RAT (7 GP, 5 GS)Frye 06 - 64%, 10 TD, 17 INT, 6.2 YPA, 72.0 RAT (13 GP, 13 GS)I just don't see much improvement...Now some other QB's and their 1st/2nd years(QB Ratings only cuz I'm lazy lol)P. Manning - 71/91E. Manning - 55/76C. Palmer - 77/101D. McNabb - 60/78J. Losman - 65/85The difference? Physical ability...these guys have a lot of it, Charlie does not (at the NFL level anyway)

[Z-P]

Hey.............can I stick my nose in here?I'm as big a Superman fan as you'll find on the board......................but................(choke, gasp) I reeeeeeeeally liked what I saw in Anderson when he started last season.IMHO, he was quicker to get rid of the ball, threw harder and more accurately, and was even appeared "smarter" than my guy by the time he (Anderson) started. Mrs. ZP got pissed at me when I tried to point these things out, so I learned to keep my opinion on that competition to myself.That said, Charley has always been known as a "Classic Gamer"..........he's not been much of a practice player. By now Phil and RAC know that, and are gaming on it somewhat.I say let C start the season..............see if the small hands can get the ball downfield, and if not, bring in Anderson................keep the "Great White Hype" on the sideline for the season so all us PSL owners don't return them for a refund in Jan 08.

[GP1]

Hey.............can I stick my nose in here?I'm as big a Superman fan as you'll find on the board......................but................(choke, gasp) I reeeeeeeeally liked what I saw in Anderson when he started last season.IMHO, he was quicker to get rid of the ball, threw harder and more accurately, and was even appeared "smarter" than my guy by the time he (Anderson) started. Mrs. ZP got pissed at me when I tried to point these things out, so I learned to keep my opinion on that competition to myself.That said, Charley has always been known as a "Classic Gamer"..........he's not been much of a practice player. By now Phil and RAC know that, and are gaming on it somewhat.I say let C start the season..............see if the small hands can get the ball downfield, and if not, bring in Anderson................keep the "Great White Hype" on the sideline for the season so all us PSL owners don't return them for a refund in Jan 08.

Good post Z-P.I was the first to say on this board that Frye would not beat out Anderson and it looks as if I may be right (I was also the first to question his ability his senior season, but that's another topic). Frye just doesn't have NFL ability. He has the ability of a guy who only won 19 MAC games in four years. Winning that few games in a low mid-major conference didn't happen by accident.I was watching Sunday Night Baseball on ESPN a couple of weeks ago and Joe Morgan made a point about pitchers who always lose close games and people feel sorry for them. His point was that those pitchers do "just enough to lose". That's Frye....he does just enough to lose.Don't be ashamed to say that Frye is not smart.....he isn't. Things are almost always as they appear to be. Anyone who has ever heard the guy speak and watches how he carries himself could come to no other conclusion. He just isn't a smart guy.The point where I would disagree is that Anderson will not start the season. The head coach has to win NOW and waiting for Frye to come around will not be an option. If BQ is not the option early, and Anderson gives them the best option to win, he has to start or the coach is doomed.Frye needs to make it through this season (I think) to qualify for the NFL PA pension. I say good luck. As little as I think about his QB ability, it would be nice for him to have a decent steady income.Those of you who think Quinn is not a tough guy didn't watch him play in college. I didn't see him play much, but I saw enough to know the guy took a beating against much better competition that Frye had to face in college and kept coming back for more. He almost single handedly took Notre Dame to two consecutive BCS games. NFL teams need winners and he will help Cleveland win.

[GoZips]

Quoting a good friend who never posts on Zipsnation. He read the thread. His response"YOU LIKE TO STIR THE STUPID PEOPLE UP DON'T YOU FRITZ?? THATS O.K, THERE SURE ARE A BUNCH OF EM OUT THERE. YOU MAKE SOME GOOD POINTS, I DON'T THINK YOU NEED A SUPER QB TO WIN IN THIS LEAGUE, ITS ALL ABOUT THE LINE IN FRONT OF HIM THAT MAKES YOU LOOK GOOD."BTW, He is a dyed in the wool Steelers fan.