South Florida

[LosAngelesZipFan]

From the LA Times today on the improbable rise of South Florida to #2: "Tranghese [big East Commish] saw South Florida as a mother lode waiting to be mined. It was a large public school, with about 45,000 students, in a state rich with football talent." Hmmm.... that is a description that could apply to UA (particularly apt if there was a merger with Can't, more on that below).The article credits South Florida's entry into the Big East as being critical to its rise-- both in ability but also in perception. It compared SF to Fresno State in 2001 who beat highly ranked teams Colorado, Oregon State, and Wisconsin but only ever got as high as 8 in the polls, at least in part because the perception and exposure deficit created by being in the WAC, a non-BCS conference. In other words, South Florida has received more national play even though 3 of its wins are over Elon, Fla Atlantic, and Central Fla just because it is in a BCS conference. (And in this regard, let's not forget that Ohio State is now ranked number 1 even though it has downed one "ranked" opponent--Purdue at 23-- and 3 of its wins are UA, YSU, and Can't.)The article also talks about Tranghese wooing Louisville and Cincy, as well as S Florida. The takeaways:Scale matters-- enrollment and market. We have to be perceived as a major university in a major media market.Community support matters-- not necessarily fan support, thought that is important, but political and business support for the institution as a whole.Trajectory and vision drives the whole thing-- Is there visionary leadership is in place that is committed to pushing the institution to the highest-possible level, is there some reason to believe the leadership can attain the vision, and is there a sufficient pool of support to get it there (es evidenced by endowment, research support, facilities, etc.)Conference matters-- it is easier to go from Conf USA to Big East than MAC to Big East-- which is why Marshall is not in the Big East today.This has obviously been a wacky year in college football, but the path to a mid-major program like UA growing into something else is well-established. I think UA actually measures pretty well on the list above that would make it at least attractive for a conference like the Big East-- certainly we have made HUGE progress on all those things with Dr. Proenza's leadership. We must increase the community support and really think about whether the MAC makes sense in the long run-- has nothing to do with whether we dominate the conference or not. The point is we could dominate the MAC, like Marshall, get ranked in the top 15, like Marshall, and still not be in the position to get a bid into a BCS conference. Getting into the Big East was a game changer for S Florida--the football program is 11 years old for God's sake. If we don't have the prospect of wheedling our way into a BCS conference (or even Conf USA), then we need to do something else that is a true step-change. All of this-- every aspect-- would be so much easier if UA and Cant merged. I know it's heresy, but it really is a huge opportunity to change the game, in a way that a UA-CSU merger wouldn't because CSU brings little to the party. I think there is a window of opportunity to do this from a position of strength, and to really create something incredible--60K enrollment, endowment approaching $1B, $200M of research, 200K alumni, huge branch campus system, etc. I don't know about you, but I would much rather see a combined UA-Can't playing in a BCS conference and becoming a institution of global impact, than either a UA-CSU merger that in the end leads to UA being a branch campus or maintaining the status quo for the foreseeable future (and event that becomes less likely given the current political climate and budgetary constraints of the state) This is a topic worth discussing...Here's the full article:South Florida provides boost to Big EastThe conference needed help after the defection of three schools and the Bulls have done it. In fact, the 11-year-old program could be on its way to the BCS title game.Chris DufresneOctober 18, 2007To relieve stress, Big East Commissioner Mike Tranghese used to sneak out of his Rhode Island office and hit buckets of golf balls.Whack to Miami, whack to Virginia Tech, whack to Boston College.In 2003, Miami led a 'Cane Mutiny to the Atlantic Coast Conference that rocked college football and caused a ripple-effect realignment.Miami and Virginia Tech were gone by 2004, with Boston College joining the ACC a year later.The Big East's major conference status was in peril and there was talk its champion might lose automatic-qualifier status to a major bowl game."I didn't have a lot of people calling me up saying, 'Don't worry,' " Tranghese recalled this week.Anyway, here's how it worked out, and next time you need a magician to pull rabbits out of hats, give Tranghese a call:From Conference USA, Tranghese plucked Louisville, which won the Big East title last year and defeated ACC champion Wake Forest in the Orange Bowl.Tranghese also wooed Cincinnati, which is 6-1 this year.But it was another Conference USA school, located in Tampa, that Tranghese considered to be Microsoft at $10 a share.The school was South Florida, which is now a program-defining win over Rutgers tonight in Piscataway, N.J., from having perhaps the straightest line to this year's Bowl Championship Series title game."I thought they needed us," Tranghese said, "and clearly, at the time of losing three schools, we needed them."The Bulls debuted at No. 2 in the first BCS standings and have the strongest credentials of the six remaining undefeated major college teams.South Florida has defeated Auburn and West Virginia and is ranked No. 1 in the BCS computers.South Florida started its program from scratch 11 years ago.Its first and only coach, Jim Leavitt, a disciple of Iowa's Hayden Fry and Kansas State's Bill Snyder, has been in charge from the days when the coaches worked out of trailers.Leavitt is a bit crazed, sometimes running conditioning drills with his players.Asked if he dreamed all this was possible, Leavitt recently said, "I dream about having another day in my life to live, to be honest with you."Bulls quarterback Matt Grothe, only a sophomore, is a top-drawer player and a five-alarm competitor. Defensive end George Selvie, also a sophomore, leads the nation with 11.5 sacks.Consider the utter outrageousness of this typed sentence: South Florida's path to the national title might go through Rutgers."A lot at stake, a lot on the line," Bulls linebacker Ben Moffitt said of tonight's game.How South Florida handles the national attention may be a key in how far it goes."The big thing is, treat it like a bottle of poison," said Carl Franks, the Bulls' running backs coach. "It's not going to hurt you unless you swallow it."Tranghese would be lying if he said he saw all of this coming."Did I expect them to be No. 2 on Oct. 15?" he said of South Florida's BCS ranking. "No, but I expected them to be in the top 20."Tranghese saw South Florida as a mother lode waiting to be mined. It was a large public school, with about 45,000 students, in a state rich with football talent."I talked to our [big East] football coaches and they said if you put them in a conference with a BCS berth, they're going to win," Tranghese said.The Big East needed South Florida, but South Florida needed the protection of being in a BCS conference.Some college have-nots wonder whether South Florida could have risen to No. 2 in the BCS had it, as a member of Conference USA, beaten the same nonconference opponents.Karl Benson, the Western Athletic Conference commissioner who has fought for increased access for the five leagues without automatic-qualifier status, offers an interesting case study.In 2001, WAC member Fresno State opened the season with nonconference wins against Colorado (which finished third in the BCS standings that year) Oregon State (preseason No. 1 in Sports Illustrated) and Wisconsin (at Madison).After the Wisconsin win, Fresno State rose to No. 11 in the Associated Press poll, and later made it as high as No. 8 before a loss to Boise State ended the Bulldogs' longshot title hopes.This year, South Florida parlayed wins over Auburn and West Virginia to go from unranked to No. 2 in this week's AP poll."You talk about a quantum leap," Benson said. "Some of it is that the brand the conference you're a member of delivers greater national recognition."It will be years before the Big East/ACC fallout can be fully accessed.Boston College and Virginia Tech are thriving in the ACC; Miami is not.The Big East certainly did not die, and what did not kill it made it 5-0 in bowls last year.And, like it or not, South Florida has joined the BCS Big Top."It's difficult for some people to recognize South Florida in that light," Tranghese said. "Guess what: It's not going to be last time they're here."Blitz package* WAC Commissioner Benson isn't worried Hawaii (7-0) debuted at only No. 18 in the first BCS standings and is convinced the Warriors, if they go unbeaten, will reach the No. 12 or better threshold required to earn a major bowl bid. "It would be hard to keep them out," he said.Benson notes every previous undefeated team from a non-BCS conference would have qualified under the current top-12 rule:In 1998, Tulane finished No. 10 in the final BCS standings, but then a non-BCS school had to finish No. 6 or better to earn a major bid. In 1999, Marshall was No. 12. Utah, in 2004, finished No. 6 to earn a Fiesta Bowl berth. And Boise State got to the Fiesta Bowl with a No. 8 ranking last year after the access rules were changed.* The New England Patriots are undefeated, the Red Sox are battling Cleveland in the baseball playoffs, and the addition of Kevin Garnett has made the Celtics relevant again. Does anyone in town know that Boston College is ranked No. 3 in the first BCS standings?"I guess there's a knock that BC doesn't have great fan support," senior quarterback Matt Ryan said this week, "but that's not the feeling amongst the team."Ryan said 5,000 fans made the trip to Notre Dame last week and things could really get exciting should the Eagles keep winning and Ryan stays in the Heisman Trophy chase.Ryan grew up in the Philadelphia area and his loyalties remain with his hometown teams, but he says there's nothing quite like Beantown Fever. "It's been pretty special to be up here and feel, in some sense, that you're a part of it."* When Miami (4-3) plays at Florida State (4-2) it will mark the first time since 1977 that neither team has been ranked. "It's still Miami and Florida State to us and to the players," Florida State Coach Bobby Bowden said.* Arizona State Coach Dennis Erickson on his team's 7-0 start, with California, Oregon, UCLA, USC and Arizona left on its Pacific 10 Conference plate: "Realistically, we know where we've been, and we know where we're at, and we're realistic about who we have to play in the next five games."* The athletic director who hired basketball coach Ben Howland and a football coach who runs the West Coast offense was fired Tuesday, but it wasn't UCLA's Dan Guerrero. It was Steve Pederson, ousted this week at Nebraska.Pederson came to Lincoln five years ago from Pittsburgh, where he hired Howland from Northern Arizona. Pederson ushered Nebraska Cornhusker football into the modern era when he brought in Bill Callahan, whose West Coast offense has produced a 14-14 record in Big 12 play. And now Pederson has been ushered out.Nebraska is 4-3 but reeling after dropping two straight games by a combined score of 86-20 and now Tom Osborne, retired 10 years after winning three football national titles in 25 years, has been hired as interim athletic director.Osborne, 70, said Callahan's job is safe until the end of the season, but look out then.At least no one will walk away needing food stamps. Pederson will get a $2.2-million goodbye check. Callahan, if he is fired, will be owed $3 million.If Callahan goes, how far might Nebraska turn back the football clock? Hawaii quarterback Colt Brennan last Friday set a WAC record with 75 passes against San Jose State. That was three more passes than Nebraska made in the 1960 season.

[GP1]

The USF story is not unique. Mike Wilbon (sp?) made a good point the other day on PTI. He said that USF is exactly where Miami (FL) was in 1983. I thought that was very interesting.Akron has no shot in the Big East. Florida has an increasing population and Ohio has a declining population...USF can get better players just by the numbers. USF is in the NE section of Tampa with girls in skimpy clothes year around and Akron is in Akron. I could go on.Think about this. Why has Florida State become so average? The answer is partly USF. Tallahassee (sp?) is one of the armpits of the United States. It wouldn't take much to convince a high school kid to come to school in Tampa and play in an NFL stadium. The Big East is every bit as good, if not better, than the ACC.USF is a much better "Feel Good" story this year than Rutgers was last season. I know I'm really interested in them and looking forward to watching them tonight and the Indians at a sports bar.

[skip-zip]

Money HAS to be the most important factor. A major conference wants to see if you can generate revenue for them. And no MAC school presently generates positive revenue from football. I'll stick with that I have been saying all along. If a representative from a major conference ever wanted to take a serious look at Akron, they'd immediately be turned off once they came to a game and saw 5,000 people in the stands.

[LosAngelesZipFan]

Florida is now supporting 4 BCS programs, plus UCF and Fla. Atlantic which have visions of getting there, on a population base of 15M (admittedly growing quickly). Ohio's is 11M and flat. I think you are right that UA cannot organically grow into the Big East-- we could run the MAC every year and average 30K in attendance, but I still don't think it'd be enough, which is why I go back to the concept of the game changer. A merged UA-Can't absolutely dominates NEO, which is still a top-15 market.USF and Miami and others didn't just happen-- and the fan support followed success and program scale, not preceded it. It's happening as we speak in Cincinnati. UA doesn't have all the assets of SF or UC-- so it has to do something else to get there.

[LosAngelesZipFan]

Money HAS to be the most important factor. A major conference wants to see if you can generate revenue for them. And no MAC school presently generates positive revenue from football. I'll stick with that I have been saying all along. If a representative from a major conference ever wanted to take a serious look at Akron, they'd immediately be turned off once they came to a game and saw 5,000 people in the stands.

Agreed

[g-mann17]

I'll stick with that I have been saying all along. If a representative from a major conference ever wanted to take a serious look at Akron, they'd immediately be turned off once they came to a game and saw 5,000 people in the stands.

If the attendance was that big of an issue, USF and Cinci would not have been selected (roughly 20,000 a piece and they had much higher caliber opponents then Liberty, Army, and Howard coming to their stadiums). The Big East is simple. Cinci, Louisville, and USF were benefactors of attrition. Miami, VTech, and Boston College left. The conference feared losing BCS status and revenue and being completely dismantled by the NCAA. So invites were given to the 3 schools. They did not care about attendance, they cared about market. Louisville they saw as an up and comer with a historic basketball program. Cinci and USF were great potential media markets. And that is the bottom line on conference growth.How big is your media market? Akron, is part of the Cleveland media Market (currently dominated by Big10 football, but thanks to the Big10 network, that is quickly becoming a moot point). As such, Akron has a potential market of over 3 million viewers. Most of which have familiarity with Big East teams, Pittsburgh, Cinci, Louisville. Knowing that Northeast Ohio is a recruiting hotbed it is only a matter of making the competition better, the exposure for the players better. However, right now the Big East has eight teams. There is no reason to go to 9 or 10. The next step would be a large one for the conference from a football perspective. They would need 4 additional teams to be able to have a conference championship game (which is another thing the Big 10 is looking for) So the question becomes what markets do you want your conference affiliated with? Since the Big East is stable for the time being, and the NCAA has not mandated full out conference Championships (Which I hear is the the BCS's next step) the Big East will not be looking for anyone soon. But rest assured that average attendance as of this date is not the determining factor. It's the potential for market share and expansion. That is one thing Akron has, and no school merger will help that fact. The average enrollment of a Big East football school is 27869. If I factor in Basketball only, it decreases drastically. So in conclusion, the University of Akron is as poised as any other school for admittance to the Big East. However, the Big East is not poised for expansion.

[GP1]

quote]How big is your media market?Important question. I hate to talk about Temple like they are a power as they have a long way to go, butt of all the MAC schools, they are in the best position to move to the Big East. When I was growing up and into my early adulthood, Temple was not a horrible team. They smashed Akron on a Thursday night ESPN game. Annually they played: WVU, Pittsburgh, Syracuse, Penn State, Boston College, Maryland and Rutgers. They competed pretty well against these teams.Back to the media market. The Philadelphia market is much bigger than Cleveland and would be more attractive to the Big East in population and if breaking the Big Ten Network is important (Penn State). Having an NFL stadium would not hurt them in football and playing in the 76ers arena would be attractive for basketball. Right now they have a basketball foothold in Philadelphia with Villanova, but nothing with football.If Temple can get good, how long will it be before the Big East is attracted to them?

[ziptrumpet87]

They would need 4 additional teams to be able to have a conference championship game (which is another thing the Big 10 is looking for) So the question becomes what markets do you want your conference affiliated with?

How about BigE + UA, Temple, Marshall & Western Kentucky = 12 teams for conf championship capability?

[g-mann17]

Important question. I hate to talk about Temple like they are a power as they have a long way to go, butt of all the MAC schools, they are in the best position to move to the Big East. When I was growing up and into my early adulthood, Temple was not a horrible team. They smashed Akron on a Thursday night ESPN game. Annually they played: WVU, Pittsburgh, Syracuse, Penn State, Boston College, Maryland and Rutgers. They competed pretty well against these teams.Back to the media market. The Philadelphia market is much bigger than Cleveland and would be more attractive to the Big East in population and if breaking the Big Ten Network is important (Penn State). Having an NFL stadium would not hurt them in football and playing in the 76ers arena would be attractive for basketball. Right now they have a basketball foothold in Philadelphia with Villanova, but nothing with football.If Temple can get good, how long will it be before the Big East is attracted to them?

Well considering the were a part of the Big East (1991 until 2004) and were booted I doubt that the Big East will be attracted any time soon.

[blueandgold]

"Back to the media market. The Philadelphia market is much bigger than Cleveland ""If Temple can get good, how long will it be before the Big East is attracted to them?"Most of what you are saying makes good sense as far as market potential is concerned. The only problem is that Temple was in the Big East for many years and the rest of the conference couldn't wait to get them out! They had no fan support and they couldn't win.Source: WickipediaThe inaugural Big East football season was launched in 1991. West Virginia and Rutgers were football-only members until 1995, Virginia Tech was a football-only member until 2001, with Temple remaining a football-only member until consistently failing to attract enough fan support and vacating its membership in 2004.

[GP1]

Important question. I hate to talk about Temple like they are a power as they have a long way to go, butt of all the MAC schools, they are in the best position to move to the Big East. When I was growing up and into my early adulthood, Temple was not a horrible team. They smashed Akron on a Thursday night ESPN game. Annually they played: WVU, Pittsburgh, Syracuse, Penn State, Boston College, Maryland and Rutgers. They competed pretty well against these teams.Back to the media market. The Philadelphia market is much bigger than Cleveland and would be more attractive to the Big East in population and if breaking the Big Ten Network is important (Penn State). Having an NFL stadium would not hurt them in football and playing in the 76ers arena would be attractive for basketball. Right now they have a basketball foothold in Philadelphia with Villanova, but nothing with football.If Temple can get good, how long will it be before the Big East is attracted to them?

Well considering the were a part of the Big East (1991 until 2004) and were booted I doubt that the Big East will be attracted any time soon.

They were out before 2004 I think. The reason they were told they were booted was because of fooball attendance. The real reason was they wanted the basketball program to move to the Big East and the school wouldn't do it.If they are interested in a TV market though, Philadelphia is the way to go and that would be Temple.I really don't know what the long term holds for Temple, but I do know that they could become a very good MAC team in a hurry.I don't think I've ever thought so much about Temple in my life. I should stop now.

[skip-zip]

If the Cleveland media market is what attracts a big conference to Akron, they will quickly see that the Cleveland media market focuses on Ohio State. Once again, if Akron can't show that their football program can generate revenue, nobody will seriously consider us for entry into a larger conference. Look at the MAC.....Besides Marshall, who packed their stadium, and was a perennial winner, has anyone else from the MAC ever been courted by a big conference? NO. Most of us reside in the states of Ohio and Michigan, where OSU and MU severely impact our ability to attract attention. Win + Generate Ticket Sales = Big Conferences Will Take Notice.It's our only chance.

[grice]

If the Cleveland media market is what attracts a big conference to Akron, they will quickly see that the Cleveland media market focuses on Ohio State. Once again, if Akron can't show that their football program can generate revenue, nobody will seriously consider us for entry into a larger conference. Look at the MAC.....Besides Marshall, who packed their stadium, and was a perennial winner, has anyone else from the MAC ever been courted by a big conference? NO. Most of us reside in the states of Ohio and Michigan, where OSU and MU severely impact our ability to attract attention. Win + Generate Ticket Sales = Big Conferences Will Take Notice.It's our only chance.

What could make Akron attractive to the Big East if the conference expands in the future? Location, the Big East Conference would look at adding exposure into large nearby TV markets which makes NE Ohio attractive. Akron's great success in men's soccer. Facilities are important and the Big East has been holding their indoor track and field championships at Akron. Akron's golf team plays at the famous Firestone Country Club. When completed InnfoCision Stadium will be one of the best around. When Akron sold over 10,000 tickets for the Motor City Bowl, conference bosses noticed.

[g-mann17]

Win + Generate Ticket Sales = Big Conferences Will Take Notice.It's our only chance.

I really don't think so skip.USF got and invite. FSU, Florida and Miami are already there, and people will say that Tamp is on another side of the state, but then you have to deal with Alabama, and all the Louisiana Schools.Trust me the Big East isn't going to be scared to go into North East Ohio if the want to expand

[johnnyzip84]

Besides Marshall, who packed their stadium, and was a perennial winner, has anyone else from the MAC ever been courted by a big conference? NO. Most of us reside in the states of Ohio and Michigan, where OSU and MU severely impact our ability to attract attention.

Skip-Zip, I do believe that Toledo sometimes comes up as a potential target for Conference USA. I'm not sure how serious this ever gets, but I've seen it on more than one occasion.The "market size" and "growth potential" reasons the Big East added Cincy and USF are the same reasons why the MAC added Buffalo over some football programs that were obviously farther along at the time of this expansion. We may be getting pretty close to witnessing the wisdom of this move very soon. 'eguins will be shaking on his iceberg over that

[Buckzip]

Besides Marshall, who packed their stadium, and was a perennial winner, has anyone else from the MAC ever been courted by a big conference? NO. Most of us reside in the states of Ohio and Michigan, where OSU and MU severely impact our ability to attract attention.

Skip-Zip, I do believe that Toledo sometimes comes up as a potential target for Conference USA. I'm not sure how serious this ever gets, but I've seen it on more than one occasion.The "market size" and "growth potential" reasons the Big East added Cincy and USF are the same reasons why the MAC added Buffalo over some football programs that were obviously farther along at the time of this expansion. We may be getting pretty close to witnessing the wisdom of this move very soon. 'eguins will be shaking on his iceberg over that

Sorry, but I disagree that OSU and UM affect UA getting attention.Ohio is a large state. There is room for multiple large programs.Michigan State still draws huge in Michigan.There is Pitt and Penn State in PennsylvaniaIndiana has Multiple big programsIllinois has multiple big program.I won't mention Texas, Florida and California because they are bigger states.If Akron became a "CONSTANT" winner, they would draw. Look at how many people drove to the MCB. There were more Akron fans there than at home games. People will go see a winner. This same old 500 or below and losing to teams UA should beat, won't draw what is needed.We have a large base to work with. Akron just needs to win "CONSISTENTLY" and everything else will fall into place.

[skip-zip]

johnnyzip... I like the Y-town iceberg comment.I guess much of this had to do with my frustration over the last 30 years pertaining to "if Akron wants to get bigger, then show the country that we deserve to be bigger". You all make valid points, but our easiest path to garnering interest from the big conferences lies in our ability to show that we belong in a bigger conference. Marshall has done that, but I don't see any other team in the MAC following that path since. I'm not aware of Toledo ever being courted by larger conferences, but I could be wrong.

[skip-zip]

Buckzip....I'm not saying that it cannot be overcome. I'm merely stating that the situation exists.Lets hope that in a state like Ohio, there is truly room for another big dog. And I hope that is us.But speaking of competition....Is there any state in the country that has more 1-A football programs than Ohio? I'm counting, and I can't seem to come up with any, other than Texas, that may be close to having as many as Ohio.I'm asking the stats people to figure this out for me. I'm too lazy.

[akronad]

I just did a very quick check and this is what I came up in the football bowl division (d-1)These are the top states:Texas 10Ohio 8California 7Forida 7Michigan 5Louisiana 5These 6 states account for a little over 35 % of the D-1 programs in the nation!

[johnnyzip84]

These are the top states:Texas 10Ohio 8California 7Forida 7Michigan 5Louisiana 5

And to think that all but 1 of those Texas schools (UTEP) were in the old Southwest Conference at one time.I appreciate the sentiment of looking to a better conference in the future, but there will always be another side to this. For instance, I knew Marshall was struggling this year, but even I was surprised to see them WINLESS (0-6) at this point (just looked them up on espn.com). Snyder will probably be gone after this year and they'll be starting over. Who would have predicted this far of a fall when they left the MAC? (Well, except perhaps Bob Pruitt!)

[skip-zip]

First of all, Akronad...thanks for the stats.As far as Marshall is concerned, I really can't come up with an explaination other than the fact that they went from recruiting as a top-level MAC school, to trying to recruit as a bottom-level C-USA school.