Conference move

[MaxZIP]

I know the realistic discussion of a potential conference change is entirely dependent on winning some games. That being said, it is fun to speculate what a conference change would mean for a school like Akron. From recruitment of athletes and increasing enrollment numbers through exposure to national TV audiences...a conference move would mean big dollars and an exciting future for the university. Where does the university stand to gain the most from jumping from the MAC ship?1.) Increased enrollment2.) A self-supporting athletic department3.) Upward pressure on academic minimum standards (namely elimination of open enrollment)4.) Overall community interest in the University

[ZachTheZip]

Community interest, hands down. Playing teams that the people around here have heard of in a good light can't hurt. We're playing schools like Ohio and Can't, where everybody knows both the good and the bad about them. Playing teams that are not as familiar, but still recognizable by the public would be a good thing.Increased enrollment and putting a stop to open enrollment work against each other, and a self-supporting athletic department is a very rare thing.

[g-mann17]

I know the realistic discussion of a potential conference change is entirely dependent on winning some games. That being said, it is fun to speculate what a conference change would mean for a school like Akron. From recruitment of athletes and increasing enrollment numbers through exposure to national TV audiences...a conference move would mean big dollars and an exciting future for the university. Where does the university stand to gain the most from jumping from the MAC ship?1.) Increased enrollment2.) A self-supporting athletic department3.) Upward pressure on academic minimum standards (namely elimination of open enrollment)4.) Overall community interest in the University

Just so you know, open enrollment is part of the reason we get to do what we get to do. If we were say, Miami selective, we'd be an FCS school with 9000 students right now. What we need to do is increase enrollment on campus to the point where we have 28,000 and 10 - 15000 living on campus. At that point we can begin being selective with the incoming freshmen. (by the selectivity isn't all it's cracked up to be, Can't has a graduation rate of 50% and those are supposed to be the kids from the area that are "good")Secondly, every school in the state (that has branch campuses) is "open enrollment" it's just the main campus get's to be selective because of size limitations.Now back to your question, community interest may swell, but only if we made a significant jump. Meaning to a BCS conference. Moving to C-USA would be as bad or worse as being in the MAC. Northeast Ohio could care less about UTEP, Tulsa, Middle Tennessee, or UCF.

[MaxZIP]

Community interest, hands down. Playing teams that the people around here have heard of in a good light can't hurt. We're playing schools like Ohio and Can't, where everybody knows both the good and the bad about them. Playing teams that are not as familiar, but still recognizable by the public would be a good thing.Increased enrollment and putting a stop to open enrollment work against each other, and a self-supporting athletic department is a very rare thing.

I agree with you that a self-supporting athletic department is rare. At least it wouldn't burden the university as much. The elimination of open enrollment would not necessarily lower enrollment figures. Can't is not open enrolment but their minimum standards are low. Increased community perception of Akron’s academics coupled with more exposure could sway regional students Akron's way. Akron wouldn't immediately turn into Miami or OSU in terms of strict enrollment criteria. It would however eliminate some subpar students who don't have the skills to be in college. They could enroll in a community college or summit college to gain the skills necessary to be successful in college without dragging the school's stats down. Having attended both Akron and Can't has led me to the realization that second year students at each facility are the comparable. It is the lower quartile of freshmen that brings Akron down.

[Zipmeister]

Congratulations. This thread wins most worn out topic of the decade. :blink:

[MaxZIP]

Congratulations. This thread wins most worn out topic of the decade. :blink:

Just trying to start a topic that doesn't involve Mack (pretty tired). Sorry for wasting your time.

[Zipmeister]

No problem. I'm as bored as most others on this board. And again, congrats.

[MaxZIP]

No congrats necessary.

[MaxZIP]

I know the realistic discussion of a potential conference change is entirely dependent on winning some games. That being said, it is fun to speculate what a conference change would mean for a school like Akron. From recruitment of athletes and increasing enrollment numbers through exposure to national TV audiences...a conference move would mean big dollars and an exciting future for the university. Where does the university stand to gain the most from jumping from the MAC ship?1.) Increased enrollment2.) A self-supporting athletic department3.) Upward pressure on academic minimum standards (namely elimination of open enrollment)4.) Overall community interest in the University

Just so you know, open enrollment is part of the reason we get to do what we get to do. If we were say, Miami selective, we'd be an FCS school with 9000 students right now. What we need to do is increase enrollment on campus to the point where we have 28,000 and 10 - 15000 living on campus. At that point we can begin being selective with the incoming freshmen. (by the selectivity isn't all it's cracked up to be, Can't has a graduation rate of 50% and those are supposed to be the kids from the area that are "good")Secondly, every school in the state (that has branch campuses) is "open enrollment" it's just the main campus get's to be selective because of size limitations.Now back to your question, community interest may swell, but only if we made a significant jump. Meaning to a BCS conference. Moving to C-USA would be as bad or worse as being in the MAC. Northeast Ohio could care less about UTEP, Tulsa, Middle Tennessee, or UCF.

Most Ohio "residential schools" could not house that 10,000-15,000 students. Can't for example can only house about 6500. Not to mention that urban universities usually have lower percentages of students living on campus due to the number of options and lower cost of off campus housing. How many Akron students live in the Valley because of the atmosphere and proximity to the bars? My point is that holding Akron to the same standards as other schools is not fair. Rural universities just don’t have the options larger cities offer.

[ksu sucks]

I agree with you that a self-supporting athletic department is rare. At least it wouldn't burden the university as much. The elimination of open enrollment would not necessarily lower enrollment figures. Can't is not open enrolment but their minimum standards are low. Increased community perception of Akron’s academics coupled with more exposure could sway regional students Akron's way. Akron wouldn't immediately turn into Miami or OSU in terms of strict enrollment criteria. It would however eliminate some subpar students who don't have the skills to be in college. They could enroll in a community college or summit college to gain the skills necessary to be successful in college without dragging the school's stats down. Having attended both Akron and Can't has led me to the realization that second year students at each facility are the comparable. It is the lower quartile of freshmen that brings Akron down.

Thanks for posting this. Sometimes I feel like I'm the only person who realizes this. Can't is not very selective at all. Yet, they have the ability to rise in National rankings because they have some restrictions on admissions. Akron doesn't need to become Miami selective, that's counter productive on our part, but as you said, admitting kids who aren't prepared for college makes us look bad and it also wastes numerous state resources. Can't isn't very selective at all. If you have a pulse, you can get in, just like Akron. But as you said, the difference is that Akron chooses to admit kids who have a pulse but barely graduate high school. And for what? So that they can come for a semester or two and drop out? Growth would not be hindered whatsoever if Akron were to administer a light admission standard similar to Can't's. We can still help out first generation students, but not at the expense of our own credibility as a strong institution of higher learning. That said, I think there should still be adult focus courses and non traditional degrees offered in summit college and at Wayne college. The university just needs to make a definite line between the traditional student admission standards and the non traditional. And so as not to get too far off topic--C-USA would be our only option. The Big East won't come knocking on our door unless some serious changes occur real fast. That's unlikely. What is likely? That UA can jump into the CUSA and use it as a stepping stone to play more name brand schools in the Big East. Those two conferences are the only ones that Akron has any sort of shot at down the road.

[ksu sucks]

Most Ohio "residential schools" could not house that 10,000-15,000 students. Can't for example can only house about 6500. Not to mention that urban universities usually have lower percentages of students living on campus due to the number of options and lower cost of off campus housing. How many Akron students live in the Valley because of the atmosphere and proximity to the bars? My point is that holding Akron to the same standards as other schools is not fair. Rural universities just don’t have the options larger cities offer.

Wow, I always thought Can't had more kids on campus than that. I heard in a speech Proenza made a while back that he plans on having 5000-6000 kids living on campus when all is said and done! It'll be cool to know that Akron will now have a similarly sized on campus population, with all the options that urban living offers. Akron will be the obvious choice among Northeast Ohio university's much sooner than I though.Also, that makes Can't more a commuter school than Akron based solely on numbers.

Commuter students are the majority at Can't State. There are about 25,000 students here, of which approximately 6,500 students live in university-owned housing which leaves about 19,500 students who are commuters.

Here's the link for the above...you'll have to fix the url because I'm sure zipsnations filter will screw it up:http://dept.Can't.edu/csi/CommuterStudents/...erStudents.htmlThanks, you made my night. Historically residential, my arse . I never bought the historical part, but now that I know how much of commuter school it is....wow, this sure makes you wonder whats going though Eric Fingerhut's mind.

[MaxZIP]

Some on here believe that a jump to c-usa would be a step in the wrong direction. Right now we are in a conference with countless other schools that are exactly the same as Akron in terms of performance and overall standing in the college football ranks. When was the last time a team went anywhere from the MAC. You are correct in acknowledging that the Big East is not looking at us as of yet. Why Akron over Buffalo or a few other MAC and c-usa schools? It needs to be done. Winning games in the mac will only take you so far. Cincinnati made the jump to the Big East from c-usa and they seem to fit in just fine. We could still play some rivalry games and playing in the east division of c-usa would not be that bad.

[MaxZIP]

Most Ohio "residential schools" could not house that 10,000-15,000 students. Can't for example can only house about 6500. Not to mention that urban universities usually have lower percentages of students living on campus due to the number of options and lower cost of off campus housing. How many Akron students live in the Valley because of the atmosphere and proximity to the bars? My point is that holding Akron to the same standards as other schools is not fair. Rural universities just don’t have the options larger cities offer.

Wow, I always thought Can't had more kids on campus than that. I heard in a speech Proenza made a while back that he plans on having 5000-6000 kids living on campus when all is said and done! It'll be cool to know that Akron will now have a similarly sized on campus population, with all the options that urban living offers. Akron will be the obvious choice among Northeast Ohio university's much sooner than I though.Also, that makes Can't more a commuter school than Akron based solely on numbers.

Commuter students are the majority at Can't State. There are about 25,000 students here, of which approximately 6,500 students live in university-owned housing which leaves about 19,500 students who are commuters.

Here's the link for the above...you'll have to fix the url because I'm sure zipsnations filter will screw it up:http://dept.Can't.edu/csi/CommuterStud...erStudents.htmlPerfect example of why careful research and planning needs to be done when evaluating our status and where we are going. Even zips fans like the meister are misinformed when it comes to our standing. Lok an cincinnati...they only can house 3500 (About on par with Akron).Thanks, you made my night. Historically residential, my arse . I never bought the historical part, but now that I know how much of commuter school it is....wow, this sure makes you wonder whats going though Eric Fingerhut's mind.

Perfect example of why research needs to be done when evaluating our status and where we are going. Even zips fans like the meister are misinformed when it comes to our standing. Look an Cincinnati...they only can house 3000 from 2005 (About on par with Akron) right now. Where are we going? to the Big east I hope. Cinci would be a much better school to use as a template than Can't State. They are pretty much where we would like to be in our own style. http://collegetree.org/2005/ohio/cincinnati/201885/

[Zipmeister]

You said a mouthful there Max. I've always said of all the things I am misinformed about, our standing is right at the top of the list.

[MaxZIP]

You said a mouthful there Max. I've always said of all the things I am misinformed about, our standing is right at the top of the list.

Meister,THE UofA is changing right before our eyes. Historical perceptions and prejudices need to fall by the wayside as the school continues to mature. Right now the momentum is headed in the right direction. Misinformed people offering snap judgments without factual support are hindering the popular perception of the university and dragging the entire movement down. In fear of sounding too much like a motivational book on tape...this is a group effort that will require faith and positive thinking on behalf of all parties involved. Please reserve comment until you have an accurate understanding of the topic under discussion.

[Charlotte_49]

In my opinion, at this particular moment in time, the MAC seems to be the perfect fit for UA. I think UA lines up pretty similarly with other MAC schools in terms of performance and other factors. Geographically speaking, it also makes more sense to play an Ohio than a comparable school in Texas. Its more affordable and there's more familiarity with a local school.The future could hold something else though.

[MaxZIP]

In my opinion, at this particular moment in time, the MAC seems to be the perfect fit for UA. I think UA lines up pretty similarly with other MAC schools in terms of performance and other factors. Geographically speaking, it also makes more sense to play an Ohio than a comparable school in Texas. Its more affordable and there's more familiarity with a local school.The future could hold something else though.

We are talking about the future. You are correct that right now we are pretty average in the MAC both athletically and academically. A decade ago Akron was not where it is today. The investments in campus improvements and academic quality gains will soon propel us past many other MAC schools. Obviously the future (near) will show further gains from the hard work put in by all involved. Joining a larger conference would mean playing teams outside of Ohio, Michigan, and Indiana. I am not so sure that is a bad thing considering MAC East football is a joke. The Mac and conference USA are doomed because across the board improvement for all teams in such a large and regional conference is nearly impossible. Right now the MAC is in a bad position. Our teams are so close that recruitment and competition for resources (state funding, TV audiences and donations) are keeping the conference down. Possibly a team or two to C-USA would shake things up a bit. Plus expansion in C-USA would probably bring 2 teams in.

[ZachTheZip]

Nobody wants to see Akron play familiar schools. That's part of the problem. Ohio, Miami, Buffalo, EMU, etc aren't interesting matchups at all to a sports fan. The MAC is boring, low-level, and nobody wants to see a MAC game.Geographically, the MAC is far too dense in Ohio and Michigan. There are jsut too many teams in a small area and they detract from each other's fan bases. If Akron and Can't were in different conferences, they could share some fans (except for when they play each other).If Akron can afford to move to the C-USA (right now we can't, but we're moving in that direction) then moving there should be a top priority.

[MaxZIP]

I agree completely. The Mac is too thick in Ohio and Michigan. Can't and akron could still play if one goes to another conference. See va tech/pitt and countless other great interconference rivalries. We could still play all the favs annually in basketball and every few years (Can't annually) in football. The best part of the equation is that we could use the MAC for a couple of non conference games on our turf. We will have the best facilities in Ohio outside of Columbus.

[GP1]

Nobody wants to see Akron play familiar schools. That's part of the problem. Ohio, Miami, Buffalo, EMU, etc aren't interesting matchups at all to a sports fan. The MAC is boring, low-level, and nobody wants to see a MAC game.If Akron can afford to move to the C-USA (right now we can't, but we're moving in that direction) then moving there should be a top priority.

Right now, the MAC is all the things you describe. They can't change low level, because the NCAA is now designed for them to be low level.What the MAC can change is boring and producing a product people want to see. If you want people to watch your games, play when it is convenient for people to go. If you want people to think the league is "big time" don't schedule games for when nobody can attend and the stadiums are half empty. Tuesday and Wednesday night games are killing the league. Night games in general are bad. Play on freaking Saturday afternoon starting between noon and 2:00.Another thing hurting the MAC is the top teams used to win with late game scoring and execution. Now, teams are a lot more likely to blow games than grasp victory from the jaws of defeat. People find late game heroics entertaining and not boring. It's up to the players to do this though.How does UofA joining C-USA help C-USA? I do not think it does. Adding bad teams to an already bad conference does not make a bad conference good. Adding Marshall has not been good for the league. In fact, it has made Marshall a bottom feeder in the league. Marshall was a very good MAC school and had no business joining C-USA. In the two sports that count, MBB and FB, we would get killed in C-USA. Making the jump to C-USA for the soccer team is just foolish. While the soccer team is the best program in the Athletic Department, most people forget about it the day after the season ends.

[GP1]

I agree completely. The Mac is too thick in Ohio and Michigan. Can't and akron could still play if one goes to another conference. See va tech/pitt and countless other great interconference rivalries. We could still play all the favs annually in basketball and every few years (Can't annually) in football. The best part of the equation is that we could use the MAC for a couple of non conference games on our turf. We will have the best facilities in Ohio outside of Columbus.

The problem is not concentration of teams, it is too many teams. Get rid of Buffalo, Temple and N. Illinois and make everyone play everyone every year. Create competition. Eliminate the MAC Championship game. The winner of the regular season, after playing everyone else in the league, is the one with the best league record.

[MaxZIP]

I think adding Akron (2-3years) and another Mac school would increase their profile in the north. They have lost Louisville and cinci thus making it seem more conference deep south. They need to move north not only to have access to new markets but to increase their national profile. Nobody cares about their teams because they never are on non prime regional tv. Basically you need to play in a region to garner acknowledgement from that area of the country.

[MaxZIP]

I agree completely. The Mac is too thick in Ohio and Michigan. Can't and akron could still play if one goes to another conference. See va tech/pitt and countless other great interconference rivalries. We could still play all the favs annually in basketball and every few years (Can't annually) in football. The best part of the equation is that we could use the MAC for a couple of non conference games on our turf. We will have the best facilities in Ohio outside of Columbus.

The problem is not concentration of teams, it is too many teams. Get rid of Buffalo, Temple and N. Illinois and make everyone play everyone every year. Create competition. Eliminate the MAC Championship game. The winner of the regular season, after playing everyone else in the league, is the one with the best league record.

Hell even splitting the MAC would work. Buffalo is a strength of this conference like it or not.

[ZachTheZip]

Sitting around and expecting the MAC to change after they've been mediocre for 50 years is a stupid move. Akron needs to be actively seeking to improve their circumstances. We're doing that internally with facility upgrades and other things, but there's ony so much you can do when you're in the MAC.

[MaxZIP]

Sitting around and expecting the MAC to change after they've been mediocre for 50 years is a stupid move. Akron needs to be actively seeking to improve their circumstances. We're doing that internally with facility upgrades and other things, but there's ony so much you can do when you're in the MAC.

I agree. The mac will only take you so far. Prospects for upward movement are limited by our MAC status and our problems as a school. We are addressing our own issues now we must address the MAC. First we have to win games period! Win games and see where it will take you when combined with overall improvement of the University. As or the move to C-USA. If they would have us in a few years, the move would allow Akron to differentiate its self from other school in a very fertile football and basketball recruiting state. Players not good enough to play with the big boys would probably rather play against C-usa teams than mac teams.