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Dear everybody, Okay, this needs to stop, because band supporters will never convince Pack_The_MAC that he’s wrong. (I assume it’s a “he” because women tend not to fight more logically). And Pack_The_MAC will never be right. TO Pack_The_ MAC: Let’s look at this argument from an educational P.O.V: (and I mean “argument” as in debate, not the childish name calling previously witnessed on this thread)To craft a successful argument we must assume that we have a logical and rational audience. Unfortunately for Pack_The_MAC (PTM from now on) he is presenting his argument to a logical and rational audience, so we weigh the merits and shortcomings of his statements, consider and evaluate their value and validity, and then form our opinions based on our knowledge of how the band works and the general spirit of the organization as a whole, and PTM’s perception of us. Since we’re logical and rational, we know that his argument is chock-full o’ logical fallacies, misinformation, failed arguments, biased opinions and awful grammar and punctuation. Shall we evaluate one by one? Oh yes please! 1. False or mistaken information: “I traveled to Ohio State and Cincinnati this year, neither band played the Blue and Gold.” A. I firmly believe that PTM was just mistaken, he might have missed pregame or might not have been paying attention. B. I don’t think he’s lying, just uninformed. C. There have been numerous videos of OSU’s band playing B&G posted on this thread, so I don’t think I need to site another source. D. Obviously PTM should have double checked his facts, because in this Appeal to Authority (because he personally was at the game to eye-witness B&G “not” getting played) he failed. Epically. E. He tried to establish credibility, and it was thwarted in a single YouTube search. Nice.Well, since now we all view PTM as an unreliable and not credible source, he’s now at a disadvantage for the rest of his claims. And we move on… 2. Straw Man: “The band has now drifted into traitor territory.” A. I do not believe that at the college level I need explain what Straw Man means. If you’ve taken English or Ethics, you’ve got the gist. However… B. Straw Man - an argument that is an informal fallacy based on misrepresentation of an opponent's position. C. So, PTM is claiming that The Band Are Traitors; “Traitors” is a very strong descriptive noun to describe a group of students who show up to every football game (and stay for its entirety) to keep morale up in the stands and liven up the atmosphere of the stadium. D. I’m not going to deny that sometimes standing for 2 hours watching a losing game can be disappointing, but it doesn’t mean that I’m not screaming and cheering my heart out when our team is playing well. E. If it is true that Ohio’s Pride is a bunch of traitors because we play the opposing team’s fight song ONCE during pregame out of good sportsmanship, I would assume that you would apply this standard to all college marching bands. At which point you have entire conferences full of Benedict Arnold Marching Bands. Seriously? Talk about misrepresentation. This statement is a TEXTBOOK example of a Straw Man Argument. 3. To answer your question PMT: “This is just simply wrong. We are rivals! Why is our band playing their song?” A. I would love to hear you explanation of what is morally wrong with playing our rivals fight song, and is it really a simple explanation as you claim it is? B. Yes, we are rivals. Good job. You crafted an entire sentence without a logical fallacy, factual mistake, misspelling, or incorrect punctuation. Glad to see the Akron Advantage demonstrated. C. WE’RE PLAYING THEIR FIGHT SONG AS A GESTURE OF GOOD SPORTSMANSHIP. It’s no different than two football player saying “good luck” at the coin toss, or two boxers punching gloves before the bell rings. Playing the opposing teams fight song is just a salute to the away team fans that trekked to OUR stadium to pay OUR college money to sit in OUR stands to see their team play. I think thats simple enough. 4. “When Akron almost came back to win, the band could have cared less. In fact, when the band director said, "alright guys lets go home" They all cheered and celebrated a lot louder than they ever do during the game. They acted like nothing on the football field happened.” A. Cared less? Anybody who was sitting near the band would have heard us screaming our heads off for our team as it almost came back. We definitely care, and I honestly believe that if PTM logically and rationally looked back at the situation, he’d know he’s being less than fair with that statement. B. IF our director did say “alright guys, let’s go home” he had a damn good reason. Call time for that game was 6:30 AM. That means outside of Guzzetta in a parade block ready to step off on the way to the stadium. The sun was not up. I’m sure that if PTM knew that at the time he heard the “let’s go home” he would have been at least semi-empathetic that we’d all been up since 6AM, and we all were ready to get off our feet, get warm again, and take a nap. C. Nothing on the football field had happened? Really dude? For real? Go back to part 4A. 5. I’m not a member of Blue and Gold Brass (The AUDITIONED band that plays at basketball games) So I’m in no position to talk about it, because I know better than to try and argue about things I know nothing about. 6. “Stop playing the other teams fight song and stop acting like you give a damn about Akron sports” A. If you we’re a real Akron Zips fan, (or at least a logical and rational person) you’d support any organization that shows up to UA’s sporting events, because if Ohio’s Pride skipped a football game, well, attendance would be down about a third. B. We’re all students at the same college, rooting for the same teams, and supporting them in our own ways, there’s no need for this quarreling, because a united student body is a healthier than groups of students so eager to wage war on each other.To Pro-Band readers and commenters: PTM had a heat of the moment hissy fit in which he spoke before he evaluated his thoughts and opinions and checked facts. Everybody has a Sass-Attack once in a while, so let’s forgive him for that. Here’s the kicker: we provoked him into making further stupid statements. We’ve done this to Zach the Zip too, but I’m going to leave him out because I think he’s just a little trolling for an argument to get into. Anybody who’s ever backed a scared cat or raccoon into a corner knows that they get mean and do dumb things like hiss at you or bear their teeth and claws, all the while you’re thinking “stupid animal, I could punt you like a soccer ball, I’m 5 times your size” Well, we just backed PTM into a philosophical corner. We all called him out at once, and now he’s intimidated and doing dumb things like trying to argue back. Lucky for PTM, Zach the Zip has wandered into the same corner and now us logical and rational people have 2 scared cats to deal with. In reality we ought to just stop posting on this thread because no matter how much sense, how correct, accurate, and logical our statements are, we must realize that we’re not arguing (DEBATING) with a logical and rational opponent. Just because you tell the scared cats “Kitty, I’m only in my garage to get a rake, I’m not going to slaughter you” doesn’t mean they understand you because they’re not rational or logical beings. And they definitely are not going to stop yowling. PTM and ZTZ are that lovely brand of human that logic and rationality have no value against. I see no reason to try and argue with them. We have no reason to feel threatened, because thanks to our greater rational and logical practices, we could metaphorically “punt them like a soccer ball” in the real world, so why waste our time hiding behind our computers? If PTM or ZTZ would like to discuss these topics further, or would like some credible or reliable sources for their next feeble attempt to claw at the band from their corner, I would be happy to meet them and provide them any information they would like to try and misconstrue in their efforts to seem like an intelligent human being.Love, Leah