Info attendance

[Big Zip]

So the Zips managed 18,000 fans at the last game in the Rubber Bowl when tickets were $1!?!?Who is going to be at the Info that didn't go to the final game? The tickets are going to the most expensive (still very reasonable) for Akron football. I'm set up for my season tickets, but are we really going to sell out the stadium? I tend to think the first season MAY sell own, but beyond that what? Is football in Akron destined to be a below 20,000 fans average adventure?Somebody convince me we're going to see sell outs in the stadium for years to come.

[zipsbandman]

We need to win instead of laying an egg every time we get a big home crowd. We do that you may see your sell outs.

[tbozeglav]

Like others have said... Saturdays bring out the big crowds... plain and simple

[ctmjbowes@sbcglobal.net]

There will be increased attendance regardless of the performance of the team (within reason of course) because:1) This is going to be a beautiful facility. Anyone who is interested in high-quality entertainment in Akron and local environs will be interested in catching games InfoSumma simply because it will be a stunning facility. Most people who catch Akron Aeros games couldn't care less about how that team performs, but like the thought of catching games at that beautiful park with wonderful sight lines. That's a already-existing example of people being drawn to good quality infrastructure and entertainment. I catch a handful of Aeros games every summer, and they are always well attended, and I can say with confidence that going to the games there has very little to do with whether or not the Aeros perform well on the field.2) Location, location, location. Anybody who doesn't think that it matters that the stadium be centrally located, on campus, downtown is nuts. Even for Zips "real" fans, just the thought of getting to the RB, with it's odd location seemingly in that weird corner spot next to the airport, was a complete downer. Parking lots were pure mud if there had been any rain, even the premium lots. It was just a crappy, crappy downer of a place. I love the Zips, but unless the weather is picture perfect, the thought of parking in mud, in that weird little spot in that part of town is not appealing in any way. 3) Again, location, location, location. As the university slowly shifts from being a commuter school, and there are an increasing number of kids living on campus who need things to do, they will flock to games. Also, people who love football and live in the parts of town that are readily accessible to downtown will come to games though they would have not considered going to games out by the airdocks. I live in NW Akron and can get downtown in a few minutes, and the psychology of getting there and getting parked are no-brainer easy and appealing, while again getting to the RB lots and the facility sucked.4) AGAIN, location, location, location. There are actually very, very good things to do right nearby the new digs. Restaurants, bars, shopping. "Hey, let's meet at OBC or Barley House or Luigi's or wherever and then go to the game at that beautiful, cool, brand-new stadium RIGHT DOWN THE STREET." The number of good things to do right nearby will only increase too. There was nothing around the RB. "Hey, let's meet for a bite to eat and then drive all the way to the crappy dump of a place they call the RB, and then park in a mud pit, and then trudge through more mud and wet grass to the decrepit and old rusty gates." Those things that make such an experience feel good or feel dirty and small time make all the difference to people. Now, could all of this goodness be wrecked by a confluence of negative factors? Yes I think so. If APD and UAPD stalk the parking lots, campus and surrounding neighborhoods looking for open containers to arrest otherwise well behaved and merry revelers, that will be an extreme buzzkill and could even create dangerous situations. If the concessions at the new stadium are overly expensive, or (worse) poorly done and "feel" crappy, that will blunt the experience. If the logistics of getting there and moving around aren't well engineered, that will dull the experience. If on top of all of that, the team blows, or UA cannot attract quality "name" teams to come play at InfoSumma, that won't help. My last point here is that the huge number of local football fans who bask in the ridiculous glow of OSWHO Suckeye football and who, even though they have nothing to do with that university or that city in a corn field called Cowlumbus, look down their noses at programs that aren't "name", will treat Akron football as a joke unless Akron hosts mostly "name" schools at InfoSumma. Now, by "name", I don't mean good necessarily. Hell, Syracuse has been horrible of late, but your average kinda-fan will be much more inclined to come out to see a "name" team like Syracuse, even when they suck, than will be interested in coming out to watch Appalachian State, even though they are (to those in the know) a high quality team. Teams that the average kinda-fan has heard of somehow, somewhere will draw attention when they come to InfoSumma. Teams like Indiana, Syracuse, Pitt, Rutgers, etc. IMO, it is very important for program-fan-psychology reasons to NOT host teams like your YSUs, your Murray States, your old OVC-type teams, because those match ups are only going to feed the idiocy of the band waggoners looking for reasons to belittle Akron football. We can't allow that psychology to continue. GO ZIPS!SeeTeeZip

[Lee Adams]

So the Zips managed 18,000 fans at the last game in the Rubber Bowl when tickets were $1!?!?Who is going to be at the Info that didn't go to the final game? The tickets are going to the most expensive (still very reasonable) for Akron football. I'm set up for my season tickets, but are we really going to sell out the stadium? I tend to think the first season MAY sell own, but beyond that what? Is football in Akron destined to be a below 20,000 fans average adventure?Somebody convince me we're going to see sell outs in the stadium for years to come.

the new place will be a novelty for a while and people will show up because its new for a year,maybe two...a few more students will show for a while because it is closer...but if there is not a consistent winner on the field that won't last...historically the charm of new facilities wears off...canal park used to have 'legitimate' sellouts all the time...we had season tickets...but they have had to resort to more free and discounted tickets to get people to show up...look at the historical football attendance all over the MAC...how many over time consistently draw 20,000+...not just a couple of years but over time...

[skip-zip]

Ok...as an old timer...without really reading your posts carefully...here's what I've been thinking.....First and foremost....the NE or North Central Ohio sports community, in general, couldn't care less about MAC football. MAC teams don't win national titles, and only rarely put themselves into a national ranking position, as Ball State did this year. So...as a Zips fan, you have to ask yourself....Once the loyal Zips fans show up, and the curious people who want to enjoy the new stadium....where are we a few years down the line? Are there 10,000 to 15,000 people who will keep coming to enjoy the "comforts" of a new football stadium even though they have no real interest in MAC football? And most of which will probably not even follow the MAC standings any further than September?...Unless we happen to be unbeaten? It's a quick answer...NO. Beyond the newness of the stadium, the only real unknown variable here is the students. Would anyone like to take a guess at how many ADDITIONAL students will go to the new stadium who do not already go to the RB? And will they stay on campus all weekend to do so? Year in and year out? Even if its 1,000 to 2,000 more, that's still not a major impact on attendance. And here's a clue...how many students flood to JAR Arena for basketball games? I know...not a good sign. Here's my most honest scenario....2009Possible sellout for the opening game. Plenty of people will want to be there. Even if the place is not full...the tickets will be sold. 20,000 by October home games. (the actual people in attendance will be lower than ticket sales...as always)15,000 by November home games. (ditto)2010Without a major promo and ticket giveaway....20.000 for opening game.And one more factor....for some of us like me who live down here in Green, the RB is actually very convenient. Easy to get in and out of, and plenty of open space to tailgate without having to negotiate the Akron city streets, parking decks, etc. I LOVE that we are getting a new stadium...don't get me wrong. But in many ways, the RB's location and parking layout was much more convenient for someone like me. Folks...I hope that I am dead wrong...but this is how I see it. The only thing that is going to change all of this? Getting into a HIGHER level conference (not CUSA), and playing a higher level of competition where we at least have chances at national ranking, and national titles.It is what it is.....it's MAC Football.

[johnnyzip84]

One potential advantage that Akron, Toledo, and Buffalo have over other MAC programs is they are all located in a decent-sized city. It's no wonder UT is usually among MAC leaders in attendance, and a big reason why the Rockets have been the 1st and most frequent MAC program to host "big-time" teams. UT also put something like $20 million in Glass Bowl refurbushments (loges/luxury boxes) in the early 90's setting the stage for this. I see NO reason why UA could not at least duplicate what UT has done, and be one of the leaders in MAC attendance year in and year out. How much will that figure be? So many factors got into that, the biggest being the product on the field. I also think how well other MAC programs "step up" with facility improvements will be key. Like Skip said, it's the MAC. And I'm in the camp who believes we aren't going anywhere else soon. So A solution is for the MAC to step up, incrementally, from year to year. What could be a budding rivalry with Buffalo may end up being a key part of this puzzle. With the West having such a wild and competitive year, I have to believe attendance figures over there are already up.

[ksu sucks]

And one more factor....for some of us like me who live down here in Green, the RB is actually very convenient. Easy to get in and out of, and plenty of open space to tailgate without having to negotiate the Akron city streets, parking decks, etc. I LOVE that we are getting a new stadium...don't get me wrong. But in many ways, the RB's location and parking layout was much more convenient for someone like me.

Just wanted to point out one thing about your post. When the RB was originally built, it was ideal for the university's commuter campus. So back in the 60's(and until more recently) or whenever they bought it, a majority of the students were commuters from neighborhoods like Green and Coventry.The placement of this stadium will increase student attendance because it is a well known fact that a majority of the kids who now go to the RB are NOT commuters. And adding the on campus will only further increase the on campus student population. Remember that UA is now referring to itself as the public research university for NORTHERN ohio. Back in the 70's, 80's, and 90's, it was a school designed for commuters. Not much longer.

[apalmison]

Nice contributions all around. We know attendance will get a boost simply from the new stadium. Winning is what will make that boost last. There will be an extraordinary amount of pressure to win next year because of that.

[bigham78]

A winning product plus an on campus stadium and attendance will be far better.UofA used to draw well in the 1970's when they fielded decent teams despite playing at anicent stadium some 8 miles off campus. 2004 and 2005 proved UofA can draw when they field a decent team. IMO, the great attendance of those two seasons would have been far better had UofA had an on-campus stadium.

[Lee Adams]

i hope we draw 25,000+ next year and for years to come whomever is the coach,no matter what the record...but...did anybody watch the Western Micigan Toledo game today...Western is what, 9-2? going to a bowl...they have been a consistent winner in comparison to a lot of MAC teams...have a nice facility...they could have doubled the number of people who were actually there and not sold out...fact of life in the MAC over time..

[Lee Adams]

A winning product plus an on campus stadium and attendance will be far better.UofA used to draw well in the 1970's when they fielded decent teams despite playing at anicent stadium some 8 miles off campus. 2004 and 2005 proved UofA can draw when they field a decent team. IMO, the great attendance of those two seasons would have been far better had UofA had an on-campus stadium.

never drew 20-25K here on a regular basis even when Larson and Dennison were winning...i went to the playoff games when they didn't draw squat..

[ZippyTuba11]

The only thing that is going to change all of this? Getting into a HIGHER level conference (not CUSA), and playing a higher level of competition where we at least have chances at national ranking, and national titles.It is what it is.....it's MAC Football.

This actually made me laugh out loud. Shhh. Don't tell Ball St. they are in the MAC.We are 5-5 and having our best season in 3 years. We won the conference at 7-5 in 2005 based on a THREE WAY tie-breaker and a last second catch. You people really think we would stand a chance at any other conference for -any- national ranking or national title? Ask Indiana football fans how well that works out for them. How about Duke or Baylor?I say F*** the other conferences. We are in the MAC. We have a team in the top 15 in the country. We have 3 teams in the top 35. More and more we are beating the BCS teams. It is not the conference that is keeping us down, it is AKRON FOOTBALL that is keeping us down. If we would have taken care of business against Cinci, BG, Buffalo, and beat OU and Temple, we would have finished 10-2 this year. But instead our team is looking at 7-5 at best.If Ball St. had played and beaten anybody with any real rank this year, they would have been the lock for the BCS game. It is hard to say how the polls will shift for them if they can beat Central/Western and the MACC. They have a lot tougher schedule ahead of them than Utah or Boise St. That makes you think doesn't it? A MAC school has a tougher schedule to close than the teams ranked ahead of them. huh?Maybe Ball St can finally give the MAC a face between this year and next. That has always been that biggest problem for the MAC. Nobody can pick who is going to win it from one year to the next. The talent is so close and no teams every actually go out there and just TAKE it. Marshall was close for a while, but then they would choke. Ever since Marshall left, who can really define the image of the conference? Think about it. B11 has OSWHO, Michigan St, and Penn St that are almost always in it. B12 has Texas, Tech, and A&M that are usually there. ACC has Florida St and Miami (Fl). Pac 10 has UCS, Cal, UCLA, Oregon. Who does the MAC have?I hope that Central/Western and Ball St can continue to be successful. The conference needs them to be there. From the East, SOMEBODY needs to step it up and actually win some games. Akron has a great chance at being that team and maybe Buffalo can keep going in the right direction.

Beyond the newness of the stadium, the only real unknown variable here is the students. Would anyone like to take a guess at how many ADDITIONAL students will go to the new stadium who do not already go to the RB? And will they stay on campus all weekend to do so? Year in and year out? Even if its 1,000 to 2,000 more, that's still not a major impact on attendance. And here's a clue...how many students flood to JAR Arena for basketball games? I know...not a good sign.

This is another good one. Comparing basketball crowds to football crowds. There are more students who go to the RUBBER BOWL on a regular basis than basketball games. Football just naturally draws a larger crowd. And you don't think 2,000 more students won't impact attendance? That could bring an 18k average to a 20k average. That's big.

1) This is going to be a beautiful facility. Anyone who is interested in high-quality entertainment in Akron and local environs will be interested in catching games InfoSumma simply because it will be a stunning facility. Most people who catch Akron Aeros games couldn't care less about how that team performs, but like the thought of catching games at that beautiful park with wonderful sight lines. That's a already-existing example of people being drawn to good quality infrastructure and entertainment. I catch a handful of Aeros games every summer, and they are always well attended, and I can say with confidence that going to the games there has very little to do with whether or not the Aeros perform well on the field.

That's funny, because I went to a lot of Aeros games this year and a handful over a few years past, and more often than not, I can say with confidence that there were a few games that may not have cracked 1,000 in a 9,000 capacity stadium. They barely average a little more than half capacity. That's not to say that there are not big crowds there. I have seen several big crowds at Canal Park, only not nearly as often as small crowds.

And one more factor....for some of us like me who live down here in Green, the RB is actually very convenient. Easy to get in and out of, and plenty of open space to tailgate without having to negotiate the Akron city streets, parking decks, etc. I LOVE that we are getting a new stadium...don't get me wrong. But in many ways, the RB's location and parking layout was much more convenient for someone like me.

This is going to be a HUGE negative for the new stadium. Rt 8. is almost always packed for RUBBER BOWL games and rush hour is just unbearable some days. There is going to be no easy way in or out of areas surrounding the stadium. If you want a spot, you'll have to get there very early in the morning. And if you don't want to wait in traffic for 3hrs after the game...well... go to a bar or something.Now that is said, I do want to point out some positives.The INFO will draw a huge crowd for the first few games. I will not be surprised to see this place sold out for at least the first 3 games. What happens after that is solely dependent on how AKRON plays. Not the rest of the MAC, but AKRON. If the Zips can win consistently, the first season will be electrifying. If they perform poorly, there may still be a huge crowd, but it will not be sold out. However, if 2010 rolls around and they are playing like they are now, I fully expect to see RUBBER BOWL numbers.For Akron to see INFO packed regularly, it needs to develop a winning TRADITION. That doesn't mean win the conference one year and the fans will come (we have already seen that this is true). It means winning the conference 2 out of 3 years, 3-5 years, or BETTER. It means going to a bowl game every year which means no seasons worse than 7-5. It also means upsetting those Wisconsin/Indiana/PennSt/Cinci/NAVY type teams fairly often. Then fans will slowly start to turn to Akron football as a favorite. We will eventually see 25k and better averages. Playing in the Big East won't help us with a winning tradition or fan attendance. Cinci is a local Big East powerhouse and didn't do anything to spike our attendance. I really wish we would abandon this idea that somehow the MAC just makes us inferior. We have teams this year ranked higher than the ACC, Big East, and CUSA. If those teams up north beat Penn St. and OSwho then we will have a team ranked higher than the B11 too. Instead of moaning about how much we want to be in those conferences, why not focus our energy on competing with Ball St and Central/Western Michigan? If we did that, we would be in the top 35 too.There is a growing trend for MAC sports. 4 big wins over the B11 was hopefully just the beginning. Plus you add in all the wins of BCS teams this year. If we can build on this into next year, what conference powerhouse is going to want to play the MAC? Do you think OSWHO would have big enough marbles to play Ball St, Central, and Western in the same year? They know better.How about in Basketball? Who is dumb enough to schedule Akron, Can't, Western Michigan, or Miami? The big teams might knock one or two of those MAC schools, but not all of them. Akron's biggest opponent is itself. It won't change no matter what conference we're. Once we finally solve all those little stupid mistakes that cost us the football game, then we will be winners. If we can solidify good plays, then we will be winners consistently. If we are winners consistently, then we will draw big crowds. If we draw big crowds, then we go will to big bowl games and have big national rankings. And all of that can come from remaining in the MAC.

[ctmjbowes@sbcglobal.net]

OK, I'm seeing a lot of pessimism in thread posts about attendance at InfoSumma, and I think those of you who believe that the Zips won't WAY outdraw what they've pulled at the RB are nuts. It pisses me off.Many more kids will attend games, many more members of the community will attend. I've seen a couple of posters talking (1) about the distance from Green, and (2) the traffic problems that they believe will exist in the vicinity of the new stadium. Are you crazy? For every attendee who has to go a little farther from Green, or from wherever, there are as many or more who will be closer. For every guy who has to go a little further from the southern 'burbs or from Canton, there will be at least one attendee, maybe more, who will be closer than they were before. Besides, you'll actually have places and things to DO and GO TO before and after the games, unlike what you've had in the past. For those coming a few miles more, your pain at the extra 10 minute drive will be more than offset by being able to park, walk down to OBC or other nice restaurant/bar, cozy up for a good meal and brew with your buds, then go to the game, then maybe cruise a mile and a half to Highland Square to catch a movie afterward. It's nuts that you guys don't think these factors will make a difference. As far as traffic jams, are you asserting that Akron downtown infrastructure, which handles an influx of students and business workers every day, is somehow less able to handle the flow of fans to the same area on game days? That makes NO sense. Again, if you're coming from Green, I'm sorry you'll have to drive an extra 8 miles to avoid the mudpits and hot piss troughs of the Rubber Bowl.Regarding Akron Aeros baseball, don't even try to sell garbage about low attendance figures at the games. When the weather is decent they draw very well. In 2007 the team averaged almost 5,000 fans for home games, and that includes the games in April and May when the weather can be terrible. Have you been downtown when there were festivals, or concerts at Lock 3, plus Aeros games? It's a very good atmosphere, and it's going to be ratcheted up that much more when the Zips are playing, the band marching through campus, merry tailgaters in the surrounding lots. Get your heads on straight damn it. Zips playing at the RB aren't the same animal as the Zips playing at InfoSumma, from a totality of entertainment circumstances standpoint. It seems to me that there are posters here who are somehow oblivious to just how disgusting and decrepit the RB really was. People, NOBODY but us wanted to EVER go to the RB to see a game, and not just because they thought of Akron football as small time. The RB is truly small time, and gross, and kept people away, and if you cannot see that I just don't get where you're coming from. InfoSumma will draw bigger than the RB by a LOT. No matter what JD trots out onto the field, the Zips are going to draw minimum 20K+ for at least the first 5 years of InfoSumma. The average Akron metro area citizen is about to discover Akron football.For those of you who disagree, let's put our beer money where our typing fingers are. Bring on some gentlemanly wagers for OBC or Hopping Frog brew if you want to challenge the 20K+ for 5 years prediction. Bring it, and for goodness' sake please drop the normal NE Ohio LOSER mentality and get behind the new digs. :chair: :chair: :chair: :chair: GO ZIPS!SeeTeeZipper

[johnnyzip84]

Good points, SeeTeeZip, but don't hold back. Let us know how you really feel! I think this discusion does point out one big difference that we ALL need to expect next year. The entire game day experience for Zip football is about to change in a big way. We have been spoiled, somewhat, in some aspects of the game experience in the years at the bowl. Among other things, one could often opt to arrive "just-in-time" and still get parked, hustle up to the bowl and plant their fanny in a seat before the opening kickoff. Often, that same individual could roam the stadium and "upgrade" when the opportunity presented itself. A buddy of mine and I used to play "follow the ball" when attendance was particularly low. In short, a paying customer could almost always get in and out quickly and cheeply. These days are a thing of the past.At the Info, those of us who have followed the Zips for a long time are going to have to make some adjustments. But I believe these will be WELL worth it. You can't have your cake and eat it too. The Info WILL draw quite a few more fans (although 20K+ average over the 1st 5 years sounds a little optimistic...I'll got with 18K unless JD gets on a roll) and the reason is, as SeeTeeZip states, LOCATION. I, for one, look forward to this new UA game day experience. Will it be more time consuming and expensive? Absolutely. But I believe it will also be far more rewarding and enjoyable. When I made the trip to Syracuse this year, even with the 'Cuse being down, I witnessed a mid-sized college city that I believe serves as a perfect model for what UA and the City could achieve here. In Syracuse there are lots of eateries/pubs to enjoy on gameday and countless pockets of tailgating. The atmosphere was exactly what college football should be all about. If we can create an experience that is even 75% of what is available at Syracuse, we will be the envy of the MAC, whether our rivals will want to admit it or not. I actually think it could be so appealing that OPPONENTS will travel in greater numbers to Akron once good word of mouth spreads.So, in essence, SeeTee, I agree with you for the most part. Too many of us our looking at this gift stadium in the mouth.

[ksu sucks]

Thank you SeeTeeZip. Oh my god thank you. The pessimism from some of these fans is just sickening.

[ZippyTuba11]

Just because somebody says something negative does not mean it is pessimistic. I for one try to be objective as possible. I really want the INFO to succeed and be sold out for every game. But in reality, it is very rare for a team in the Zips level of football to draw those dense football crowds. Not impossible, but rare.In my post I thought I outlined what it will take will take for the Zips to draw those crowds. By moving out of the basement of the MAC they can do that, but it has to happen more than one year. A winning tradition will get them that. Winning those close games that we currently give away and upsetting a few big teams here and there. Putting in the big named teams and competing well against them.But I think you are taking the few negative points I draw attention to and assuming that I am pessimistic about the team and the new stadium. I am extremely excited to be apart of the new Zips home and potentially a winning football team. I take that excitement in stride, however.

As far as traffic jams, are you asserting that Akron downtown infrastructure, which handles an influx of students and business workers every day, is somehow less able to handle the flow of fans to the same area on game days? That makes NO sense.

Your assumption that downtown traffic should be able to handle game day traffic because it handles students and workers every day does not seem to meet logic; at least the way I see it. I am a commuter student and I have to leave a good 15-30 minutes earlier to make a class if it is during rush hour. If there is every an accident, forget it. It can be forever for traffic to move sometimes. So as it stand, the Akron downtown infrastructure barely handles the regular influx of traffic. From INFO, there are only about 4 main roads to get out of that area: Exchange, Route 8, Route 59, and Market. With all the lights on Exchange and Market, and the natural traffic problems on Route 8, I foresee major traffic jams with 20,000+ fans all leaving the new stadium at once. Those roads just were not built to handle that many people at one time, plus the normal amount of traffic that flows during those times. That combined with limited tailgating areas and extremely limited close parking lots are going to make for a headache getting to and leaving ICS.As it is right now, the University can not really hold any major events in EJ or the Student Union during the peak of the day (10-2) because there are no lots available. I always come in early because if I come in during those hours I can never find a spot in EJ, North Deck, East Deck, Exchange or even Polsky(yes even Polsky spots are hard to find some days). There are a few obscure lots that are always open, but I imagine those will be quickly filled on game day. So I have to wonder where all these swarms of fans are going to park. Downtown? In the ghetto? Do you think our older fan base is going to want to park down a back ally on Kling, Spicer, or Grant where theft is already a major issue? Or park downtown and walk up the hill? Our younger crowd probably won't mind it, but most of them will probably have a pass for campus.Now if you could actually explain how this flaw is going to be resolved with some evidence, I'm all ears, but telling me it makes no sense doesn't devalue my points. To this day I have not heard of any significant plans to expand parking or traffic congestion that goes on during a -normal- day.I hope that the quality of Akron football is good enough to draw as many fans to the new stadium as it can hold. I know downtown businesses are very excited for all the people that will be downtown during game day. I imagine weekends won't look like a ghost town during the day anymore, and I am will be very happy to see that. I have to wonder, SeeTeeZip, if you actually read my post and understood the points I was trying to get across.-INFO will be sold out for at least 3 games and draw well after that for the first season.-A winning tradition will keep the ICS packed-The MAC is a good home for us and if we could be more competitive, we could be where BSU, CMU and WMU are now-Starting from scratch in another conference isn't a good idea-The Aeros still draw small crowds, even on beautiful days. They also draw large crowds. Overall they are about 55% full-55% capacity for ICS is 16.5K-A weak, sub .500 team will eventually hurt our fan base after the 'opening effects' of the stadium wear off

For those of you who disagree, let's put our beer money where our typing fingers are. Bring on some gentlemanly wagers for OBC or Hopping Frog brew if you want to challenge the 20K+ for 5 years prediction. Bring it, and for goodness' sake please drop the normal NE Ohio LOSER mentality and get behind the new digs.

I'll put a good friendly bet on it. I say there is no way Akron draws 20k+ after 5 years IF they have been sub .500 for both the 4th and 5th years AND have not won the conference in that time. Loser buys a tall one from OBC?For a good counter point, If Akron wins the MAC 2/5 years and never does worse than 1 sub .500 year, we will definitely have 20k+ and possibly 25K average.

[ctmjbowes@sbcglobal.net]

Just because somebody says something negative does not mean it is pessimistic. I for one try to be objective as possible. I really want the INFO to succeed and be sold out for every game. But in reality, it is very rare for a team in the Zips level of football to draw those dense football crowds. Not impossible, but rare.In my post I thought I outlined what it will take will take for the Zips to draw those crowds. By moving out of the basement of the MAC they can do that, but it has to happen more than one year. A winning tradition will get them that. Winning those close games that we currently give away and upsetting a few big teams here and there. Putting in the big named teams and competing well against them.But I think you are taking the few negative points I draw attention to and assuming that I am pessimistic about the team and the new stadium. I am extremely excited to be apart of the new Zips home and potentially a winning football team. I take that excitement in stride, however.

As far as traffic jams, are you asserting that Akron downtown infrastructure, which handles an influx of students and business workers every day, is somehow less able to handle the flow of fans to the same area on game days? That makes NO sense.

Your assumption that downtown traffic should be able to handle game day traffic because it handles students and workers every day does not seem to meet logic; at least the way I see it. I am a commuter student and I have to leave a good 15-30 minutes earlier to make a class if it is during rush hour. If there is every an accident, forget it. It can be forever for traffic to move sometimes. So as it stand, the Akron downtown infrastructure barely handles the regular influx of traffic. From INFO, there are only about 4 main roads to get out of that area: Exchange, Route 8, Route 59, and Market. With all the lights on Exchange and Market, and the natural traffic problems on Route 8, I foresee major traffic jams with 20,000+ fans all leaving the new stadium at once. Those roads just were not built to handle that many people at one time, plus the normal amount of traffic that flows during those times. That combined with limited tailgating areas and extremely limited close parking lots are going to make for a headache getting to and leaving ICS.As it is right now, the University can not really hold any major events in EJ or the Student Union during the peak of the day (10-2) because there are no lots available. I always come in early because if I come in during those hours I can never find a spot in EJ, North Deck, East Deck, Exchange or even Polsky(yes even Polsky spots are hard to find some days). There are a few obscure lots that are always open, but I imagine those will be quickly filled on game day. So I have to wonder where all these swarms of fans are going to park. Downtown? In the ghetto? Do you think our older fan base is going to want to park down a back ally on Kling, Spicer, or Grant where theft is already a major issue? Or park downtown and walk up the hill? Our younger crowd probably won't mind it, but most of them will probably have a pass for campus.Now if you could actually explain how this flaw is going to be resolved with some evidence, I'm all ears, but telling me it makes no sense doesn't devalue my points. To this day I have not heard of any significant plans to expand parking or traffic congestion that goes on during a -normal- day.I hope that the quality of Akron football is good enough to draw as many fans to the new stadium as it can hold. I know downtown businesses are very excited for all the people that will be downtown during game day. I imagine weekends won't look like a ghost town during the day anymore, and I am will be very happy to see that. I have to wonder, SeeTeeZip, if you actually read my post and understood the points I was trying to get across.-INFO will be sold out for at least 3 games and draw well after that for the first season.-A winning tradition will keep the ICS packed-The MAC is a good home for us and if we could be more competitive, we could be where BSU, CMU and WMU are now-Starting from scratch in another conference isn't a good idea-The Aeros still draw small crowds, even on beautiful days. They also draw large crowds. Overall they are about 55% full-55% capacity for ICS is 16.5K-A weak, sub .500 team will eventually hurt our fan base after the 'opening effects' of the stadium wear off

For those of you who disagree, let's put our beer money where our typing fingers are. Bring on some gentlemanly wagers for OBC or Hopping Frog brew if you want to challenge the 20K+ for 5 years prediction. Bring it, and for goodness' sake please drop the normal NE Ohio LOSER mentality and get behind the new digs.

I'll put a good friendly bet on it. I say there is no way Akron draws 20k+ after 5 years IF they have been sub .500 for both the 4th and 5th years AND have not won the conference in that time. Loser buys a tall one from OBC?For a good counter point, If Akron wins the MAC 2/5 years and never does worse than 1 sub .500 year, we will definitely have 20k+ and possibly 25K average.

All right Zippy Tuba, you're on, and I'll simplify terms for you. Regarding parking on game days, there will have to be more thought that goes into when you get downtown and where you park. However, as one who works right downtown and grew up here, there is more parking available than people realize downtown. There are plenty of decks that will be open and available on game days, and most often those decks will be open because games don't occur at the same times that normal business does. Also, for those of us who want to grab a meal before or after, parking right downtown is probably the way to go anyway. As far as parking in the student slum (where I lived while attending UA back in the day) unless you get too far away from Exchange, or in a tight spot, I don't see that much risk for average game attendees. Of course, it is an urban area that has seen some crime issues of late, but let's hope that the APD and UAPD step up on game days/nights for the games. Lastly, JohnnyZip made very good points in that going to a game is likely to be much more like the experience at substantial college football schools, in that you'll need to put a little effort into the logistics of getting to the game, but that will drive the tailgating, the restaurants, the other entertainment options that we all crave. It might get guys to decide to meet up a couple hours early, and grab a meal and a beer or five, it may cause guys to make some kick ass tailgating happen. It may spur some energy and cash flow into the downtown. It's all good people. The payoff will be MUCH more than worth it, and we here are going to be the ones driving that excitement and building the new traditions.OK, back to my bet. Anyone else want in on this one? All it will take for me to lose will be a year in which the Zips do not average 20K for the home season, during the first five years at the field. Who wants a piece and we'll lock in the terms. Of course we'll also have to decide what happens if I win, other than complete and total pwnership of the doubters, forever. GO ZIPS!SeeTeeZip

[Zipsrifle]

Hey, I have an idea to improve attendance.Why don't we stop whoring ourselves out to the MAC and stop playing games on a weeknight! Hardly anybody tailgating, people have to rush from work in Cleveland, Elyria, Etc. to get to the game and then get home at 1:30 or 2:00 AM. Fans from the other school (Unless its Can't) won't come to the game because they can't take 3 days off work to follow their football team. I'm really sick and tired of the MAC office forcing us to play these games for "National Exposure" when in reality all it does is give the bars across the country some background noise and SCREW the few diehard fans of the MAC.

[GJGood]

My last point here is that the huge number of local football fans who bask in the ridiculous glow of OSWHO Suckeye football and who, even though they have nothing to do with that university or that city in a corn field called Cowlumbus, look down their noses at programs that aren't "name", will treat Akron football as a joke unless Akron hosts mostly "name" schools at InfoSumma. Now, by "name", I don't mean good necessarily. Hell, Syracuse has been horrible of late, but your average kinda-fan will be much more inclined to come out to see a "name" team like Syracuse, even when they suck, than will be interested in coming out to watch Appalachian State, even though they are (to those in the know) a high quality team. Teams that the average kinda-fan has heard of somehow, somewhere will draw attention when they come to InfoSumma. Teams like Indiana, Syracuse, Pitt, Rutgers, etc. IMO, it is very important for program-fan-psychology reasons to NOT host teams like your YSUs, your Murray States, your old OVC-type teams, because those match ups are only going to feed the idiocy of the band waggoners looking for reasons to belittle Akron football. We can't allow that psychology to continue. GO ZIPS!SeeTeeZip

I agree that Infocision will see many more fans than the Rubber for all the reasons you outlined in your post. I also agree with your comments on the "name" programs and OSU (let the 1-AA, or FCS schools play the Buckeyes). Please don't attack my hometown though. There are some of us down here in the capital city that have resisted and rebelled against the scarlet wave of brainwashing that is prevalent throughout this area.

[g-mann17]

This is going to be a HUGE negative for the new stadium. Rt 8. is almost always packed for RUBBER BOWL games and rush hour is just unbearable some days. There is going to be no easy way in or out of areas surrounding the stadium. If you want a spot, you'll have to get there very early in the morning. And if you don't want to wait in traffic for 3hrs after the game...well... go to a bar or something.

I have to disagree with this. There are 3 areas to park at the Rubber Bowl, but only really 2 ways to get there. 224 or some verion of Waterloo Rd.In contrast, there will be several lots to park at for the 411. That can be accessed by Market, Exchange, Rt 8. Brown St., 59. There is also better flow to the highway and many more options for leaving the stadium. Traffic will be a non issue. This on a typical Saturday mind you. MAC weekday games, forget about it, it will be a nightmare. But I have no problem dealing with that.

[skip-zip]

g-mann....WOW.Traffic will be a non-issue at the new stadium?? Have you ever been near the Rubber Bowl when a "real" 25,000 showed up? I have...many times over the last few decades. Contrary to your statement about limited access to the RB, people access the RB from many different directions. Route 224 has two lanes going right there, with few stop lights, and very large parking areas to enter. Triplett Blvd. has two lanes going right to RB parking, with few stop lights, and very large parking areas. Massillon Rd. has 2 lanes going right to RB parking, with few stop lights, and very large parking areas to enter.If this situation has caused traffic to stop several miles from the RB when 25,000 people really do show up (and yes it does...I've been stuck in it). You can bet the problem will be much more difficult on campus. Now about the students:My original post said...1,000 more?...2,000 more? Not to make an argument, but to ask a question. I will join the ranks of those who will be pleasantly surprised if several thousand ADDITIONAL (meaning..those who don't already have an interest in going) students suddenly decide that they have an interest in Akron football, and will stay on campus for the entire weekend just to go to a Saturday game....year in and year out. I just don't see it. My basketball game reference was not intended to compare basketball to football attendance, but merely to point out that when you can only get a few hundred students to show up to a basketball game that's on campus....what kind of additional, consistent student attendance can you really expect at football games? Winning vs. playing in the MAC:Whoever posted the "see Ball State" comment must be joking. Check the history. How often does any MAC team ever get enough respect to get to where Ball State is right now? When it happens, people notice, but it's certainly not a frequent occurrence. So, how about just winning the MAC? I can tell you several knowledgable college football fans right now who have no idea whatsover of how Akron is doing this year. Why? Again...MAC teams do not compete for national titles....so most Northeast and Northcentral Ohio football fans couldn't care less. I'm telling you...just winning MAC games will not bring flocks of new people to the new stadium after the novelty of wanting to go to see it wears off. We'll need a run like Marshall had several years ago or a Boise State type of success story to accomplish that. Again...not being a good MAC team, but being a team with some kind of national stature. Check the attendance figures of other MAC schools...even when they are in positions to win MAC titles....and you'll see that there are not significant attendance increases. As much as I'd like to believe that if we just win more games everyone will come, I'm just not seeing that it's really the case in this conference. I've been around this football program for a long, long time. I'm just telling it like I see it.

[Zipmeister]

Anyone who thinks that having an on campus stadium will automatically draw lots of students once the newness of the facility wears off is kidding themselves. A nearby (but only one of many possible) example: Miami drew a total crowd of around 1,000 against Ball State. Play crappy, fans ain't happy.

[ctmjbowes@sbcglobal.net]

Anyone who thinks that having an on campus stadium will automatically draw lots of students once the newness of the facility wears off is kidding themselves. A nearby (but only one of many possible) example: Miami drew a total crowd of around 1,000 against Ball State. Play crappy, fans ain't happy.

Don't underestimate the fact that this is not just an on-campus stadium. This is an on-campus stadium that is also smack dab in a good-sized downtown area, that will also be FAR BETTER than any other stadium in the MAC, and comparable to facilities that schools in larger/better conferences have to offer. This is not Can't, where it's students and, well, nobody else. Akron football will now compete, after all of these years, for the interest of Akronites and those in the region for whom the Rubber Bowl was always pure garbage. There will be a tremendous change in student interest. Those of you who attended the university years ago have not kept pace with the changes perhaps, but there are many more students at Akron who are traditional college kids. That means they live on campus in dorms or in the student slums. When most of us old farts attended you either lived at home and commuted in, lived in the student slums or were one of the very, very few who lived in the tiny number of dorms available. In those days Akron was a toilet downtown so most students went somewhere else whenever possible, whether or not they were living in the downtown area. Not only are there more dorms, and more traditional students these days, but Akron's ability to draw people downtown has changed drastically from where it was 20 years ago. For those of you who can't, or won't acknowledge these major changes, again I say take me up on my wager.There will be tremendous change in "average Akron Metro area Joe" interest. At least for five years, as I mentioned in previous posts, going to InfoSumma will be "a thing." Please stop with the basketball comparisons. The Zips BB program is still being built out by KD, college BB teams play MANY teams many of us have never heard of, they play in the dead of winter when many non-hard-core fans just don't want to see a game on a weeknight and then drive home in the cold. There is just no comparison between FB and BB, when Akron BB means playing some no-name team in the crappy JAR, versus college football against name teams in a national-class facility in downtown. How can you compare the two? Come on debbie downers, I'm ready to put my beer money where my mouth is. How about you? GO ZIPS!SeeTeeZip

[bigham78]

Anyone who thinks that having an on campus stadium will automatically draw lots of students once the newness of the facility wears off is kidding themselves. A nearby (but only one of many possible) example: Miami drew a total crowd of around 1,000 against Ball State. Play crappy, fans ain't happy.

The attendance for Ball St Vs Miami (OH) 14,758 Toledo having a terrible seasonThe Attendance for their last home Central Michigan 21,422Fans are not happy when you're playing crappy football. But, fans when they don't have to drive 8 miles to an off campus crappy stadium will turn out in better numbers.