Downtown Arena might not be such a good idea

[Jake]

... In Kalamazoohttp://www.mlive.com/broncos/index.ssf/200..._wmus_move.html

From the downtown akron web page - Downtown is not on campus and campus is not downtown -"StudentsIf you’re looking to get off campus and discover Akron, Downtown is the place to start. Downtown puts you in the center of many different cultural amenities, living opportunities, delicious dining options and so much more. With the expansion of the Roo Express route you can travel to and from campus in seconds. Take a walk or ride your bike and arrive in minutes. Once you’re Downtown, put your Zip Card to use by stopping in one of these local restaurants or retail establishments that accept the card....22 ExchangeThese brand new student living apartments are only a quarter mile from the University of Akron campus and located in the heart of Downtown Akron's entertainment district. Cutting edge amenities and inclusive utilities make 22 Exchange the place to be. Apartments are being leased now for August 2009 occupancy.

[ksu sucks]

From the downtown akron web page - Downtown is not on campus and campus is not downtown -"StudentsIf you’re looking to get off campus and discover Akron, Downtown is the place to start. Downtown puts you in the center of many different cultural amenities, living opportunities, delicious dining options and so much more. With the expansion of the Roo Express route you can travel to and from campus in seconds. Take a walk or ride your bike and arrive in minutes. Once you’re Downtown, put your Zip Card to use by stopping in one of these local restaurants or retail establishments that accept the card....22 ExchangeThese brand new student living apartments are only a quarter mile from the University of Akron campus and located in the heart of Downtown Akron's entertainment district. Cutting edge amenities and inclusive utilities make 22 Exchange the place to be. Apartments are being leased now for August 2009 occupancy.

Haha, this is nothing short of incredible.

[Jake]

No one including me has suggested that the fraternities and sororities located east of the stadium should be relocated.

Hmm...

The land to the east of the stadium is large enough for an arena. It would border Spicer, Vine, Goodkirk and E. Exchange.

Spicer, Vine, Goodkirk, and ExchangeNow, the corner of Spicer and Exchange is the Skyway Restaurant site. The block between Vine and Nash is mostly off campus housing and Fraternity/Sorority sites. If you build there, where do they go? Yeah that's right, they have to be relocated. But yes, I'm dishonest.

Yes, you are dishonest because you implied that I supported relocating fraternities and sororities and I do not. Those house can stay and coexist with a new arena just fine. Now stop the immature dishonesty.

[Jake]

http://www.akronnewsnow.com/print.asp?ID=8766http://www3.uakron.edu/nmc/plan/goals.htmlThere was also a ABJ article on the subject but you need to pay for archived stories. This is the reality of an arena. If built, there is an agreement to build it downtown.

There is no such agreement in existance.

[Jake]

Stop it...You're thinking outside the box!!!!!!Seriously though, best idea I've heard in a long time. The campus needs it's own identity, but to ignore it's proximity to a possibly resurgent downtown would be a mistake.

At the risk of drawing the infantile ire of a certain poster, as I look at our northern campus area in conjuction with downtown, I am beginning to think the best location for our new arena really may be the current parking lot just north of Quaker Square.Here is the BIG twist - we should close Mill Street and knock the bridge down - creating a large, pedestrian friendly, Arena-Quaker Square area. This location could help the bars/restaurants in the Historic District and Northside, as well as be a great same-block compliment to the Summit ArtSpace building. The Historic District is actually quite hip & seems on the verge of really becoming something special. If we could then somehow landscape the northern edge of downtown to make a pedestrian-friendly concourse from Perkins Street to the Northside District it would really create a truly substantial indie-bohemian-type area.This Mill Street location would also be but one block removed from the John S. Knight Convention Center and could be used for conventions as well as concerts and Zips b-ball.(I don't know how to post an image, but you can easily mapquest the area. In fact, Summit ArtSpace is located @ 140 East Market Street, Akron, OH 44308. QUAker SqUAre is then found one block to the south.)

No one is ignoring the campus proximity to downtown by insisting on a campus with integrity. They are not mutually exclusive.

[Jake]

From the downtown akron web page - Downtown is not on campus and campus is not downtown -"StudentsIf you’re looking to get off campus and discover Akron, Downtown is the place to start. Downtown puts you in the center of many different cultural amenities, living opportunities, delicious dining options and so much more. With the expansion of the Roo Express route you can travel to and from campus in seconds. Take a walk or ride your bike and arrive in minutes. Once you’re Downtown, put your Zip Card to use by stopping in one of these local restaurants or retail establishments that accept the card....22 ExchangeThese brand new student living apartments are only a quarter mile from the University of Akron campus and located in the heart of Downtown Akron's entertainment district. Cutting edge amenities and inclusive utilities make 22 Exchange the place to be. Apartments are being leased now for August 2009 occupancy.

Haha, this is nothing short of incredible.The truth hurts doesn't it?

[Jake]

Good links, UADavid.UA's arena commitment to the City of Akron, as described in the AkronNewsNow story, fits well with point 6 in UA's stated goals:Create a strong physical, programmatic, and symbolic linkage between the campus and the adjoining community to stimulate mutually supportive and beneficial interaction.It appears as if those who favor harsh segregation of UA from the city with something akin to a Berlin Wall are tilting at windmills.

Now that is indeed a childish assessment of supporting a university's integrity. UA is just starting to look like a real campus and it needs to continue and not regress. Like it or not, those who support a downtown arena support UA moving backwards to the days of Akron U/Hilltop high. All universities with class and prestige make very clear their distinction from the rest of the community. Please do not confuse boundaries with walls.Also, don't confuse linking with morphing. Point 6 is nothing more than the concept of town and gown and it is not something unique to Akron. All universities have point 6 in their missions. It doesn't mean that the campus should fade into the woodwork.

[ZachTheZip]

Pretty much the whole campus is downtown. Therefore any arena built on campus will also be downtown. Problem solved.

[Jake]

http://www.akronnewsnow.com/print.asp?ID=8766http://www3.uakron.edu/nmc/plan/goals.htmlThere was also a ABJ article on the subject but you need to pay for archived stories. This is the reality of an arena. If built, there is an agreement to build it downtown.

Here are some other points made by the univeresity. Please note point 1 and 4:"1 Create a more user-friendly, safe, cohesive, and aesthetically appealing campus that will attract and retain students, faculty and staff, and serve as a symbol of pride for alumni. 2 Establish a framework for the future development of the campus that will guide the siting of capital projects and major landscape elements. 3 Identify and establish major open spaces with clearly defined and designed pedestrian connections between the buildings and open spaces. 4 Clarify and establish campus edges and character, including proposals for points of campus entry through portals, campus signage, lighting and tree-lined paths of travel.Also, whoever made the claim that non-resident students are "pseudo-students" needs his head examined. When an area of land is not on campus and people try to spin that it currently is on campus makes the area pseudo-campus (ie false campus). Students who do not reside in campus housing are still students in every meaning of the word.

[WinZip]

...those who support a downtown arena support UA moving backwards to the days of Akron U/Hilltop high....

I'm sorry, but are you serious? So Coach Dambrot supports UA moving backwards? People who donate thousands of dollars do as well? That would be like saying one who is not in support of war wants the enemy to win.

All universities with class and prestige make very clear their distinction from the rest of the community.

Perhaps, but do you think they distance themselves from the community as well? That would hardly show class in my opinion. I feel that the two really go hand in hand. Think of all the benefits a prosperous community has for students: Comfort, safety, job incentives, entertainment, a place to showcase their talents, etc...With all the bad-mouthing I hear from the immediate community, shouldn't the University want to reach out and show was it stands for?

Please do not confuse boundaries with walls.

Exactly, walls are not boundaries. UA should work beyond the "walls" of campus and touch lives around the community. Really... a successful school wouldn't do that?That said I see some of you points on wanting to bring the community to campus. Why not engage in some friendly discussion instead of calling people liars?

[Jake]

...those who support a downtown arena support UA moving backwards to the days of Akron U/Hilltop high....

I'm sorry, but are you serious? So Coach Dambrot supports UA moving backwards? People who donate thousands of dollars do as well? That would be like saying one who is not in support of war wants the enemy to win.

All universities with class and prestige make very clear their distinction from the rest of the community.

Perhaps, but do you think they distance themselves from the community as well? That would hardly show class in my opinion. I feel that the two really go hand in hand. Think of all the benefits a prosperous community has for students: Comfort, safety, job incentives, entertainment, a place to showcase their talents, etc...With all the bad-mouthing I hear from the immediate community, shouldn't the University want to reach out and show was it stands for?

Please do not confuse boundaries with walls.

Really... a successful school wouldn't do that?exactly, walls are not boundaries. UA should work beyond the "walls" of campus and touch lives around the community. That said I see some of you points on wanting to bring the community to campus. Why not engage in some friendly discussion instead of calling people liars?

Sorry but I call a spade a spade and you are being dishonest by twisting words. UA does not have walls. It has boundaries. Having said that, UA reaches out to the community all the time and UA is not distancing itself from the community by having physical integrity and its own campus You are making crap up and that makes you dishonest. Another example of your dishonesty is implying that I said that Dambrot wants to move UA backwards. No he doesn't. Word has it that he supports an on-campus arena and not a downtown arena. And as far as agreements go, part of the agreement to build a downtown arena included UA owning and running a hotel for two years for the city (The Quaker Inn at The University of Akron). Guess what? That agreement went poof along with the stipulation to build a downtown arena. UA will now run a hotel for the city for the forseeable future and is now free to build the arena on its campus and not downtown.

[WinZip]

...those who support a downtown arena support UA moving backwards to the days of Akron U/Hilltop high....

I'm sorry, but are you serious? So Coach Dambrot supports UA moving backwards? People who donate thousands of dollars do as well? That would be like saying one who is not in support of war wants the enemy to win.

All universities with class and prestige make very clear their distinction from the rest of the community.

Perhaps, but do you think they distance themselves from the community as well? That would hardly show class in my opinion. I feel that the two really go hand in hand. Think of all the benefits a prosperous community has for students: Comfort, safety, job incentives, entertainment, a place to showcase their talents, etc...With all the bad-mouthing I hear from the immediate community, shouldn't the University want to reach out and show was it stands for?

Please do not confuse boundaries with walls.

Really... a successful school wouldn't do that?That said I see some of you points on wanting to bring the community to campus. Why not engage in some friendly discussion instead of calling people liars?

exactly, walls are not boundaries. UA should work beyond the "walls" of campus and touch lives around the community. Sorry but I call a spade a spade and you are being dishonest by twisting words. UA does not have walls. It has boundaries. Having said that, UA reaches out to the community all the time and UA is not distancing itself from the community by having integrity and its own campus You are making crap up and that makes you dishonest.

It makes me dishonest to disagree with you? Wouldn't it look bad to turn away a chance to work with the city, saving some money/time just so we can "have integrity and" our "own campus". I am definitely not putting words in your mouth I'm stating how I feel. Why is that so hard for you to understand???Yes, I realize UA reaches out to the community all the time and I think it should continue to do so. Why can't both things happen?Not every college needs a stadium within the walls or boundaries or whatever fence you are referring to.

[WinZip]

While I would love it, I don't see how or where an on campus (within the fence) basketball arena would work for quite some time. Expanding the possible sites by a few minutes walking distance would allow for a quicker, more affordable option in addition to the community benefits.

[Jake]

Jake, look at a map of campus and tell me exactly where such an arena could be built. The only option without removing existing buildings or the brand-new grass area by the soccer field is on the outskirts of campus by Quaker Square. Even if they tear down the JAR right after basketball season, the new one couldn't be built in time for the start of winter sports the following year.The football stadium was built on the outskirts of campus, and we had to tear down a neighborhood to make room for it. All the new dorms being built are on the outskirts, too. It expands the campus. By building an arena and one or two other buildings outside the central campus, is actually expands the school footprint. It may not be in the middle of campus now, but once it's built it would be as much on campus as the football stadium or the new Exchange dorms.

I'm all for expanding the campus footprint but only in areas where it is feasable to make the expansion LOOK LIKE part of the campus, such as the new stadium. There is plenty of expansion possibilities across Jackson Field south of exchange where the university now owns parts of the area and plans on owning more of it. Expanding into the downtown area can not transform downtown into a campus. There is too much traffic (the nature of all downtowns) and cannot be made to look or be pedestrain friendly

[Jake]

...those who support a downtown arena support UA moving backwards to the days of Akron U/Hilltop high....

I'm sorry, but are you serious? So Coach Dambrot supports UA moving backwards? People who donate thousands of dollars do as well? That would be like saying one who is not in support of war wants the enemy to win.

All universities with class and prestige make very clear their distinction from the rest of the community.

Perhaps, but do you think they distance themselves from the community as well? That would hardly show class in my opinion. I feel that the two really go hand in hand. Think of all the benefits a prosperous community has for students: Comfort, safety, job incentives, entertainment, a place to showcase their talents, etc...With all the bad-mouthing I hear from the immediate community, shouldn't the University want to reach out and show was it stands for?

Please do not confuse boundaries with walls.

Really... a successful school wouldn't do that?That said I see some of you points on wanting to bring the community to campus. Why not engage in some friendly discussion instead of calling people liars?

exactly, walls are not boundaries. UA should work beyond the "walls" of campus and touch lives around the community. Sorry but I call a spade a spade and you are being dishonest by twisting words. UA does not have walls. It has boundaries. Having said that, UA reaches out to the community all the time and UA is not distancing itself from the community by having integrity and its own campus You are making crap up and that makes you dishonest.

It makes me dishonest to disagree with you? Wouldn't it look bad to turn away a chance to work with the city, saving some money/time just so we can "have integrity and" our "own campus". I am definitely not putting words in your mouth I'm stating how I feel. Why is that so hard for you to understand???Yes, I realize UA reaches out to the community all the time and I think it should continue to do so. Why can't both things happen?Not every college needs a stadium within the walls or boundaries or whatever fence you are referring to.

Disagreeing with me does not make you dishonest. Telling lies and making up crap does make you dishonest, like you just did by equating disagreeing with lying. It seems like it's just in your nature to be disengenuous. You are also dishonest when your contention is for UA to build an arena downtown for philosphical reasons and then switch the contention to "there is no room on campus for an arena" when you see that you are losing the argument over your first contention. God, are you blatently dishonest. And perhaps not every college needs a stadium on campus, but UA does and has and it needs an arena on campus because universities with prestige keep their campuses self contained with boundaries and not walls. And, I urge you to show me how UA distances itself from the rest of the community or that I advocated such a thing. That was your dishonest accusation. Now back it up.And maybe in your circle people bad mouth UA but those individuals are ignorant about UA and will bad mouth Christ himself. UA should not pander to these people by subverting its mission and contaminating its vision. The people who have the ignorance to hate a fine institution like UA hate everything including themselves. They are to be ignored and not catered to.

[WinZip]

Jake, look at a map of campus and tell me exactly where such an arena could be built. The only option without removing existing buildings or the brand-new grass area by the soccer field is on the outskirts of campus by Quaker Square. Even if they tear down the JAR right after basketball season, the new one couldn't be built in time for the start of winter sports the following year.The football stadium was built on the outskirts of campus, and we had to tear down a neighborhood to make room for it. All the new dorms being built are on the outskirts, too. It expands the campus. By building an arena and one or two other buildings outside the central campus, is actually expands the school footprint. It may not be in the middle of campus now, but once it's built it would be as much on campus as the football stadium or the new Exchange dorms.

I'm all for expanding the campus footprint but only in areas where it is feasable to make the expansion LOOK LIKE part of the campus, such as the new stadium. There is plenty of expansion possibilities across Jackson Field south of exchange where the university now owns parts of the area and plans on owning more of it. Expanding into the downtown area can not transform downtown into a campus. There is too much traffic (the nature of all downtowns) and cannot be made to look or be pedestrain friendly

True, a downtown arena probably would not expand campus as much. Perhaps it would save us enough money so that we could expand it in other ways? Maybe ten years from now the school would have the option of building its own arena and the city could keep the old one for minor league teams/concerts. Sounds like overkill.Lets just fill the JAR first.......

[ZachTheZip]

Jake, look at a map of campus and tell me exactly where such an arena could be built. The only option without removing existing buildings or the brand-new grass area by the soccer field is on the outskirts of campus by Quaker Square. Even if they tear down the JAR right after basketball season, the new one couldn't be built in time for the start of winter sports the following year.The football stadium was built on the outskirts of campus, and we had to tear down a neighborhood to make room for it. All the new dorms being built are on the outskirts, too. It expands the campus. By building an arena and one or two other buildings outside the central campus, is actually expands the school footprint. It may not be in the middle of campus now, but once it's built it would be as much on campus as the football stadium or the new Exchange dorms.

I'm all for expanding the campus footprint but only in areas where it is feasable to make the expansion LOOK LIKE part of the campus, such as the new stadium. There is plenty of expansion possibilities across Jackson Field south of exchange where the university now owns parts of the area and plans on owning more of it. Expanding into the downtown area can not transform downtown into a campus. There is too much traffic (the nature of all downtowns) and cannot be made to look or be pedestrain friendly

There's really only one place in the core of downtown where an arena could be built, and that's across from Canal Park.There are really only two options to expand campus while keeping it from feeling fragmented: north and south. South of Exchange was supposed to be transformed by the University Park Alliance into a sort-of miniature college town in the heart of the city. That never really happened. In the future it might be a better option but right now it's pretty dangerous and that might turn away some people. North of campus up to Market Street is a mess of failed or failing businesses and assorted historical buildings. Nothing ties it together. It's like a no-man's land. You cold easily assimilate it block by block and double the size of the campus without fragmenting the boundaries of the university. I don't know the what logisitcs of either option would be, but I do agree that putting an arena out there in downtown wouldn't be as prefferable as keeping it more on-campus.

[WinZip]

Disagreeing with me does not make you dishonest. Telling lies and making up crap does make you dishonest. And perhaps not every college needs a stadium on campus, but UA does and has and it needs an arena on campus because universities with prestige keep their campuses self contained with boundaries and not walls. And, I urge you to show me how UA distances itself from the rest of the community or that I advocated such a thing. That was your dishonest accusation. Now back it up.And maybe in your circle people bad mouth UA but those individuals are ignorant about UA and will bad mouth Christ himself. UA should not pander to these people by subverting its mission and contaminating its vision. The people who have the ignorance to hate a fine institution like UA hate everything including themselves. They are to be ignored and not catered to.

I could just as easily accuse you of lying, telling me I have a circle of bad mouthers. Please stop with your dishonest crap it's really quite annoying.I am suggesting that perhaps we should take advantage of potential partnerships when beneficial. Your views seem to be focused internally, which would thus seem to increase the distance between community and school. I too think the campus should overflow with pride. Why can't it do that with a shiny new basketball arena two minutes downtown and in the center of the nightlife?

[WinZip]

There's really only one place in the core of downtown where an arena could be built, and that's across from Canal Park.There are really only two options to expand campus while keeping it from feeling fragmented: north and south. South of Exchange was supposed to be transformed by the University Park Alliance into a sort-of miniature college town in the heart of the city. That never really happened. In the future it might be a better option but right now it's pretty dangerous and that might turn away some people. North of campus up to Market Street is a mess of failed or failing businesses and assorted historical buildings. Nothing ties it together. It's like a no-man's land. You cold easily assimilate it block by block and double the size of the campus without fragmenting the boundaries of the university. I don't know the what logisitcs of either option would be, but I do agree that putting an arena out there in downtown wouldn't be as prefferable as keeping it more on-campus.

I agree, but I don't see it happening for awhile. I'm a believer that if the team performs well, fans will show up no matter where the arena is. I think if one wants an arena soon, downtown is the best bet. For an ideal location closer to the heart of campus, we should buckle down in the JAR and wait for it to show up.I don't have my crystal ball handy...

[Jake]

There's really only one place in the core of downtown where an arena could be built, and that's across from Canal Park.There are really only two options to expand campus while keeping it from feeling fragmented: north and south. South of Exchange was supposed to be transformed by the University Park Alliance into a sort-of miniature college town in the heart of the city. That never really happened. In the future it might be a better option but right now it's pretty dangerous and that might turn away some people. North of campus up to Market Street is a mess of failed or failing businesses and assorted historical buildings. Nothing ties it together. It's like a no-man's land. You cold easily assimilate it block by block and double the size of the campus without fragmenting the boundaries of the university. I don't know the what logisitcs of either option would be, but I do agree that putting an arena out there in downtown wouldn't be as prefferable as keeping it more on-campus.

I agree, but I don't see it happening for awhile. I'm a believer that if the team performs well, fans will show up no matter where the arena is. I think if one wants an arena soon, downtown is the best bet. For an ideal location closer to the heart of campus, we should buckle down in the JAR and wait for it to show up.I don't have my crystal ball handy...

Where the arena is located has a great deal to do with its support. A downtown arena will discourage UA students from coming. An on-campus arena will encourage students to attend. Why do you think UA built a stadium on campus when it could have built it downtown as the mayor demanded?

[Jake]

Disagreeing with me does not make you dishonest. Telling lies and making up crap does make you dishonest. And perhaps not every college needs a stadium on campus, but UA does and has and it needs an arena on campus because universities with prestige keep their campuses self contained with boundaries and not walls. And, I urge you to show me how UA distances itself from the rest of the community or that I advocated such a thing. That was your dishonest accusation. Now back it up.And maybe in your circle people bad mouth UA but those individuals are ignorant about UA and will bad mouth Christ himself. UA should not pander to these people by subverting its mission and contaminating its vision. The people who have the ignorance to hate a fine institution like UA hate everything including themselves. They are to be ignored and not catered to.

I could just as easily accuse you of lying, telling me I have a circle of bad mouthers. Please stop with your dishonest crap it's really quite annoying.I am suggesting that perhaps we should take advantage of potential partnerships when beneficial. Your views seem to be focused internally, which would thus seem to increase the distance between community and school. I too think the campus should overflow with pride. Why can't it do that with a shiny new basketball arena two minutes downtown and in the center of the nightlife?

I said MAYBE in your circle... Go ahead and accuse me of lying. It would be just another one of your many lies

[Blue & Gold]

Good grief, fellas. Knock it off. We need to bulldoze the Plasma Center and build the arena there! (Only half joking) I was checking out the stadium again tonight and it struck me once again, wow, what an embarrassing, low-life magnet that plasma center is and it is going to be directly across from our new stadium's MAIN GATE!! Good grief.

[g-mann17]

I'm all for expanding the campus footprint but only in areas where it is feasable to make the expansion LOOK LIKE part of the campus, such as the new stadium. There is plenty of expansion possibilities across Jackson Field south of exchange where the university now owns parts of the area and plans on owning more of it. Expanding into the downtown area can not transform downtown into a campus. There is too much traffic (the nature of all downtowns) and cannot be made to look or be pedestrain friendly

:blink: :blink: :blink: So across Exchange street is more pedestrian friendly? Where 10,000 students drive from 9 am - 7 pm plus traffic going to downtown and from the west side to Goodyear. Do you think the city will close one of its two major routes to Goodyear Heights? So that Campus can be more "pedestrian friendly"?So one way traffic (easier to cross by the way) is less pedestrian friendly than 4 - 5 lanes of east west traffic.You are really digging here, and you're coming up dry in your theory.

[g-mann17]

Where the arena is located has a great deal to do with its support. A downtown arena will discourage UA students from coming. An on-campus arena will encourage students to attend. Why do you think UA built a stadium on campus when it could have built it downtown as the mayor demanded?

How? Do you have some magical eight ball telling you that students will avoid downtown (which they flock to by the way and is part of the reason downtown is growing)? Let's see. I disagree with you, I'm a lying snake oil salesman.WinZip disagrees with and he's dishonest. (btw WZ I have a business proposition for you )Hmm, Bilbo, I'm not really sure why you even both talking to use dishonest lying snake oil salesmen.Answer that last question...

Why do you think UA built a stadium on campus when it could have built it downtown as the mayor demanded?

The spot was chosen because it was cheaper to acquire land since UA owned 90% of it, Alumni owned 5% of it, and the rest they thought they could easily purchase. This spot meant that the stadium project could be done quickly. Downtown (which there were no cheap footprints available) was not selected because the cost of land is much higher, and the city needs the office space.

[Zip Watcher]

Ok .. you guys are done with this topic in Hoops. At this point, it's devolved into name calling and hair pulling .. and for that, it's off to the "Off topic / Smack Forum" for all of you. Keep it up and it'll be locked.Go Zips!!!