Petition: Ending Open enrollment

[ksu sucks]

http://www.petitionspot.com/petitions/anewakron1/I'm just running this petition to get an idea of how supportive the faculty, staff, students, and community would be of such an idea. 1,000 signatures was the bare minimum the site allowed for a "goal". I don't really care how seriously anyone takes it, I just thought it would be interesting.Regardless, I'm still going to try and get the word out. It'd be awesome if any of you could give some feedback or even sign the petition. IMO, this needs to be done now. This school is too good to be held down by such standards.Edit: When you click "sign this petition!" it will just ask for your name, email, and country. It will then ask if you want to sign in through twitter or register. If you dont have a twitter account then just click register. It only sends an email and nothing else. Thanks.

[Z.I.P.]

IMO, this needs to be done now. This school is too good to be held down by such standards.

Held down by what standards, and why? Because we're not elitist enough? I thought NOT being Miami or K-ent is what set Akron apart. (Not that all the other state schools don't play by the same rules)

[flipthezip]

This is not the time to be getting rid of open enrollment. The economy is in the tank and cuts are being made deep in to higher education funding and financial aid. Just last night I heard on the news that Spring tuition is going up 3.5% and that we are facing a budget short fall. Right now we need to take it as many students as possible. If for nothing more than to help fill Info.I am all for UA becoming more selective in enrollment practices and criteria, but right now is not the time.Either way

[Zips fan]

It bugs me to see our rankings hurt because of open enrollment. These generic rankings (world news reports and others) are just looking at certain numbers and don't even try to evaluate schools beyond acceptance rates, retention rates, alumni giving, etc. I think that Akron is a great school and is being viewed differently within certain academic communities. I don't know if I would want to eliminate open enrollment with the sole purpose of increasing a pointless ranking system. I also don't want people ending up at our university as a safety school because they couldn't get in anywhere else. I have not seen any push from our current administration to change this policy. If Proenza was pushing for an admission standard and not being allowed because of the state, I would whole heartedly agree. Right now, I am on the fence. I think the school has been working to get their enrollment numbers up. If we put a restrictive standard on admission, we would be changing alot about the mission of the university. I would like to know if the school is considering this policy.

[zip37]

My H.S. grades were so bad I could not haxe gotton into any college w/o open enrollement, The USAF taught me how to study, because in Tech School, they didnt care if you got thru the course or no, if you failed there was always the Air Police or Food Service. That's REAL motovation, and my lack of wok ethic was cured.I think open enrollement is mostly a good thing.

[RootforRoo44]

My H.S. grades were so bad I could not haxe gotton into any college w/o open enrollement, The USAF taught me how to study, because in Tech School, they didnt care if you got thru the course or no, if you failed there was always the Air Police or Food Service. That's REAL motovation, and my lack of wok ethic was cured.I think open enrollement is mostly a good thing.

With those spelling skills you could have easily "gotton" into Can't.

[Zipsrifle]

Dude, those ranking are worthless. I've told the story how many times here about how Akron wasn't even listed in those polls in Engineering when I was there even though we were able to smoke every other school in the country in 3 of the 4 SAE competition we entered! I think YOU should be worried about the fact that General Motors hired more Akron Challenge X members than any other school that competed. These are the guys they will be relying on to turn that ship around! When I was in school, the boys in Detroit wouldn't even look at you. The education speaks for itself and part of that education is rubbing elbows with people who aren't squeaky clean and polished. You know, like people you will have to deal with every day in real life.

[zen]

Dude, those ranking are worthless. I've told the story how many times here about how Akron wasn't even listed in those polls in Engineering when I was there even though we were able to smoke every other school in the country in 3 of the 4 SAE competition we entered! I think YOU should be worried about the fact that General Motors hired more Akron Challenge X members than any other school that competed. These are the guys they will be relying on to turn that ship around! When I was in school, the boys in Detroit wouldn't even look at you. The education speaks for itself and part of that education is rubbing elbows with people who aren't squeaky clean and polished. You know, like people you will have to deal with every day in real life.

When I was there I talked to people who were co-oping for ford, and some who knew grads who went to work for the automakers. I heard the same story that I suspect is very true now. The engineers at those places have to answer to the bureaucrats and the bean counters. Our guys want to make something right, and they want to make something cheap.

[Blue & Gold]

<br />

Dude, those ranking are worthless. I've told the story how many times here about how Akron wasn't even listed in those polls in Engineering when I was there even though we were able to smoke every other school in the country in 3 of the 4 SAE competition we entered! I think YOU should be worried about the fact that General Motors hired more Akron Challenge X members than any other school that competed. <b>These are the guys they will be relying on to turn that ship around!</b> When I was in school, the boys in Detroit wouldn't even look at you. The education speaks for itself and part of that education is rubbing elbows with people who aren't squeaky clean and polished. You know, like people you will have to deal with every day in real life.

<br />When I was there I talked to people who were co-oping for ford, and some who knew grads who went to work for the automakers. I heard the same story that I suspect is very true now. The engineers at those places have to answer to the bureaucrats and the bean counters. Our guys want to make something right, and they want to make something cheap.<br />

<br /><br /><br />Good grief, I hope not. That's precisely why most folks would prefer to drive either a Honda or Toyota in the first place.

[g-mann17]

A lesson on selectivity and open enrollment in the public university sector.Selectivity is limited to the main campuses of universities. The reason being so that may maintain a "selective" look and so that the campus is not over booked with students. However, anyone can get a degree from Can't State Stark (open enrollment) and that degree says the same thing as a degree from Can't. Same with any of the Ohio State, BGSU, Ohio, or Miami branch campuses.If you want Akron to be more selective than push for more branch campuses and more spending at the branch campuses.Selectivity is an elitist concept and to be quite frank is a falsehood. Some kid from an innercity school with some ethnicity is going to get a spot before a white male from a much better school. Just the way that works. The only true selective schools in the state are Kenyon and Case Western.The best thing The University of Akron can do to improve prestige is to continue doing what it is doing, obtaining research dollars. The more research, the more tech, the better the University looks and the more the endowment grows.

[Zip Watcher]

Is the best measure of a University the caliber of its graduates or its enrollees? UA engineering grads stack up with anyone, anywhere, regardless of open enrollment. I don't think it's a productive thing to worry about. Open enrollment is the crutch that other state schools use to denigrate UA (and maybe Toledo?), when in the face of changing economic conditions, the engineers, scientists and business grads from UA continue to find employment.The issue is a non-starter for me. Continue to educate well, and make sure UA prepares students better than anyone else. Easy graduation is way more dangerous than easy enrollment.My $.02.Go Zips!

[ksu sucks]

Thanks for everyone's opinions. Your input has made me rethink my opinion on the topic of open enrollment.Just because the elitist system that other schools use is wrong, does that make open enrollment right? There's got to be a happy medium somewhere.

[ZachTheZip]

The thing is that the individual colleges that make up the university do have admission standards.

[ksu sucks]

The thing is that the individual colleges that make up the university do have admission standards.

Right. And that's how it should be. But what about the rest of the kids who weren't given admission to a college? That's were I don't agree with open enrollment.I think some of the kids who aren't good enough to get direct admission to their college of choice(engineering, nursing, arts and sciences, etc.) should still be given a shot. Most schools will give them that shot. But why should we give admission to kids whose high school record shows that they will most likely fail? I'd be willing to bet that most of the kids who failed in high school will fail again in college. So we should admit them because...it's nice? No. It's an irresponsible use of FAFSA(government money) and university resources.

[Zipsrifle]

I graduated from HS with just over a 3pt and had to go through university college first. I realized that unlike HS, I could flunk out rather easily from college and decided to apply myself. I graduated from UA with honors. College is often the first place where people are without a guiding hand, a place where many are truly on their own for the first time, a place where many people first really learn the consequences of their actions. I knew one kid who was super smart (MIT smart) but didn't make it off the OSU campus alive. Others find it empowering and achieve more than they thought possible. I don't see why UofA should close their doors to people who have yet to find who they really are for the sake of a ranking. I see UA as an institution that will lead NE Ohio into the future and it starts with the people who live here and plan to stay here, and IMO those are the people UA needs to serve.

[ksu sucks]

I graduated from HS with just over a 3pt and had to go through university college first. I realized that unlike HS, I could flunk out rather easily from college and decided to apply myself. I graduated from UA with honors. College is often the first place where people are without a guiding hand, a place where many are truly on their own for the first time, a place where many people first really learn the consequences of their actions. I knew one kid who was super smart (MIT smart) but didn't make it off the OSU campus alive. Others find it empowering and achieve more than they thought possible. I don't see why UofA should close their doors to people who have yet to find who they really are for the sake of a ranking. I see UA as an institution that will lead NE Ohio into the future and it starts with the people who live here and plan to stay here, and IMO those are the people UA needs to serve.

And your story is exactly the kind that I think we should embrace. But I don't like the odds of accepting kids destined to fail. A 3.0 GPA would most likely get you into all of the MAC schools except possibly Miami(assuming average test scores). But I don't like the odds of accepting kids who've failed most of high school. Sure, some may be late bloomers or they might need to realize the reality of self reliance, but most will just go out and party. Trust me. I witnessed it myself. There was 4 guys on my floor last year who dropped out before the spring semester. That's just my floor. This goes beyond "catering" to the rankings. This is a matter of common sense. The kids who come on campus with 2.5 and below GPA's absolutely ruin our numbers. A big concern for me when college searching was the number of kids who actually graduate in time. Although Akron in general had a crappy percentage, one visit to campus ended my doubts. It won't for everyone.

[g-mann17]

And your story is exactly the kind that I think we should embrace. But I don't like the odds of accepting kids destined to fail. A 3.0 GPA would most likely get you into all of the MAC schools except possibly Miami(assuming average test scores). But I don't like the odds of accepting kids who've failed most of high school. Sure, some may be late bloomers or they might need to realize the reality of self reliance, but most will just go out and party. Trust me. I witnessed it myself. There was 4 guys on my floor last year who dropped out before the spring semester. That's just my floor. This goes beyond "catering" to the rankings. This is a matter of common sense. The kids who come on campus with 2.5 and below GPA's absolutely ruin our numbers. A big concern for me when college searching was the number of kids who actually graduate in time. Although Akron in general had a crappy percentage, one visit to campus ended my doubts. It won't for everyone.

That is all well and good but...My graduating class our Dupont Scholarship winner dropped out.The class following me, the Dupont Winner, and both Chrysler Award winners dropped out.These instances happen more often than not. That is why we have the University College in the first place. I don't know how many people who are in the top 10% of their class drop out each year. Why should we give these people a shot? How is it different than giving a person with a 2.0 and an 18 on their ACT a shot? (open enrollment requirements are different than non-traditional students who come a couple of years after graduation). I could see your dismay if there was evidence that poor quality students were being pushed through to a degree, but look at our retention rate. The University fails a lot of students. The University might not be selective but the colleges (programs) are and so is the graduation requirement. I wasn't an open enrollment student, but I met several who were while at the University. Many of them were much hungrier to succeed than many of the academic scholarship kids. I just don't follow your thought process on this.

[MDZip]

I think some people's frustration is that policy at least "appears" to be the reason that Akron is not more highly regarded nationally when all of us believe that it certainly should be. There is no reason that Akron shouldn't be regarded as an excellent academic institution, for many of the reasons outlined above, and yet it most certainly is not at least in the general national perception. My daughter is looking at schools and has a book called the Best 381 colleges in the US. Many MAC schools are listed but not Akron (and many other schools that are listed are no better than Akron). It's also funny to me that the big football and basketball factories all seem to make these types of publications. So when we get better at those, then we'll be an elite institution. I'm only partly kidding and I wonder if a little of our push in athletics now might be related to that. A lot of it is perception. Proenza is working hard to change that, but I think that is the root cause of these kinds of discussions.

[ksu sucks]

I could see your dismay if there was evidence that poor quality students were being pushed through to a degree, but look at our retention rate. The University fails a lot of students.

This first link deals mostly with affirmative action. But I used it once for an English paper here at Akron, and he shows how the difference in SAT scores directly effects the graduation rates.http://www.capmag.com/article.asp?id=1635

Compare racial preferences in Colorado, for example. At the flagship University of Colorado at Boulder, test score differences between black and white students have been more than 200 points -- and only 39 percent of the black students graduated, compared to 72 percent of white students. Meanwhile, at the University of Colorado at Denver, where the SAT score difference was a negligible 30 points, there was also a negligible difference in graduation rates -- 50 percent for blacks and 48 percent for whites.

http://www.ohio.edu/instres/retention/RetenReg.pdfEffect of GPA on graduation and attrition rates. This has some local significance. The studies were done on OU's regional campuses.

Students in the top half of their high school graduating class had higher retention rates (65 percent in 2007) than students in the bottom half (47 percent in 2007). Students scoring above the 50th percentile nationally on the ACT had higher retention rates (65 percent in 2007) than students scoring below the 50th percentile (55 percent in 2007).

The regional campus attrition rate for students with an Ohio University GPA of above 2.0 was 26 percent in 2007, compared to 83 percent for students with GPA’s below 2.0.

This was after fifeteen minutes using google and bing. To make a long story short, you could find data supporting either side. Of course some talented kids will trip up in college. But to say that a kid with a 4.0 GPA has as good of a chance of failing as a kid with a 2.0 GPA is borderline ignorant. Also, Akron's class of 2001 had a graduation rate of 37%. That's pitiful. http://web1.ncaa.org/app_data/inst2007/5.pdfListen, I don't want to make this an elitist thing. But c'mon. Don't you think this university can do better than it is?

[g-mann17]

Also, Akron's class of 2001 had a graduation rate of 37%. That's pitiful. http://web1.ncaa.org/app_data/inst2007/5.pdfListen, I don't want to make this an elitist thing. But c'mon. Don't you think this university can do better than it is?

Yeah it stinks, the national average is 53.7%. Your data is fine and dandy, but you see what I'm talking about with the fact that all students drop out. What would selectivity do for us? Bump us to Can't State levels? They are still below the national average (49%). Right now, as we are, we are more respected than Can't. We do tangible things right now, they did some LCD research 20 years ago. The problem being that we would not be where we are now, with out the open enrollment. We certainly would not be growing as fast as we are. And you still seem to think that Princeton Review and US News and World Report is who we have to impress. That is not the case. We are well respected as a University by peer institutions. Proenza is head of a coalition of university presidents that include Yale, OSU, and MIT. Of all applicants we accepted 75%. And 40% chose to go to school here.Again, if you want to cut off the growth of the University than by all means get rid of open enrollment. If you instead want the University to grow and necessitate better selectivity because of maximized class room space, than you leave things be. A high ranking in US News does not make us a top school. Being innovative and growing rapidly does. Being able to produce solid graduates through a tough curriculum does.

[ksu sucks]

Again, if you want to cut off the growth of the University than by all means get rid of open enrollment. If you instead want the University to grow and necessitate better selectivity because of maximized class room space, than you leave things be. A high ranking in US News does not make us a top school. Being innovative and growing rapidly does. Being able to produce solid graduates through a tough curriculum does.

I you're 100% positive that this is where the university is going with open enrollment then I'm completely satisfied. I think that's a great idea.

[g-mann17]

Again, if you want to cut off the growth of the University than by all means get rid of open enrollment. If you instead want the University to grow and necessitate better selectivity because of maximized class room space, than you leave things be. A high ranking in US News does not make us a top school. Being innovative and growing rapidly does. Being able to produce solid graduates through a tough curriculum does.

I you're 100% positive that this is where the university is going with open enrollment then I'm completely satisfied. I think that's a great idea.

I honestly believe that. We have had continued enrollment increases for the last decade. We are trying to fill every seat at the University. Once that happens than you can be selective.It's the old adage "Beggers can't be choosers". We were desperate for students so we have to make ourselves available to all who are interested.There is also a small underlying committment that as an urban university we have to do what we can to make education available to everyone in the city that seeks it. But again as the student population grows on campus we can justify doing urban learning centers and college prep style centers off of campus.