No Automatic Berth for MAC Men's Champ in 2009

[Zip_ME87]

Because of a discussion in another forum, I uncovered that the MAC Mens Soccer Champion does not have an automatic bid to the NCAA College Cup in 2009. There used to be 22 conferences with automatic qualification, but only 21 are listed this year. (I was not previously aware of this for 2009.)See page 6 of the pdf: 2009 DIVISION I MEN’S SOCCER CHAMPIONSHIP HANDBOOK at the link belowhttp://web1.ncaa.org/web_files/champ_handb...9_1_msoccer.pdfAutomatic Qualifiers[Reference: Bylaws 31.3.4 and 31.3.5 in the NCAA Division I Manual.]Conferences granted automatic qualification for the 2009 championship are:America East Conference, Ivy GroupAtlantic Coast Conference, Metro Atlantic Athletic ConferenceAtlantic Sun Conference, Missouri Valley ConferenceAtlantic 10 Conference, Mountain Pacific Sports FederationBig East Conference, Northeast ConferenceBig South Conference, Pacific-10 ConferenceBig Ten Conference, Patriot LeagueBig West Conference, Southern ConferenceColonial Athletic Association, The Summit LeagueConference USA, West Coast ConferenceHorizon LeagueThe link I posted above doesn't seem to work for me from ZN. Try going to http://www.ncaa.org/wps/ncaa?key=/ncaa/nca...nship+handbooksScroll down the page, under Sport-Specific Championship Handbooks, then under Fall Sports, then click on "2009 Division I Men's Soccer"

[tbozeglav]

so is this the NCAA's way to screw Akron over... again?

[MDZip]

If this is true it really would be reason to exit the MAC, however, I'm inclined not to believe it. That doesn't make sense. Not like it really matters to us this year, but it could in other years.

[ZachTheZip]

so is this the NCAA's way to screw Akron over... again?

It could have an effect, but I would wait until a few days before the selection day before worrying. There's still many games to be played.

[Zip_ME87]

If this is true it really would be reason to exit the MAC, however, I'm inclined not to believe it. That doesn't make sense. Not like it really matters to us this year, but it could in other years.

I hope it's a typo in the handbook. (But the MAC is not listed.) I agree that it shouldn't matter this year, but could down the road.

[zen]

It's not like we are going to lose the MAC and not get in.If we didn't get a berth, we could just hire Doug Martin to storm the NCAA... I hear he does that sorta thing.

[bigzipguy]

The Zips will be in the NCAA tournament , regardless of what happens in the MAC tournament.

[Zip_ME87]

It's not like we are going to lose the MAC and not get in.If we didn't get a berth, we could just hire Doug Martin to storm the NCAA... I hear he does that sorta thing.

EDIT:Looks like we wouldn't have to do that; it appears that Appendix E holds the solution:MID-AMERICAN CONFERENCE(ineligible for AQ in 2099)University of AkronBowling Green State UniversityUniversity at Buffalo, the StateUniversity of New YorkFlorida Atlantic UniversityHartwick CollegeNorthern Illinois UniversityWestern Michigan UniversityPersonally, I'm not concerned about the lack of Automatic Qualification in 2099.

[meatwad]

Looks like the we wouldn't have to do that; it appears that Appendix E holds the solution:MID-AMERICAN CONFERENCE(ineligible for AQ in 2099)University of AkronBowling Green State UniversityUniversity at Buffalo, the StateUniversity of New YorkFlorida Atlantic UniversityHartwick CollegeNorthern Illinois UniversityWestern Michigan UniversityPersonally, I'm not concerned about the lack of Automatic Qualification in 2099.

ok, so the MAC doesn't get an auto qualifier. Does anyone know why? Obviously for Akron it does not matter. I think we could lose out and still be in the tourney at this point. Still it points to the absolute crap of a league that we are in that they don't even get an auto qualifier for the NCAA tourney.

[Zip Watcher]

sorry to have questioned the kid.Go Zips B) B)

[Zip_ME87]

Looks like the we wouldn't have to do that; it appears that Appendix E holds the solution:MID-AMERICAN CONFERENCE(ineligible for AQ in 2099)University of AkronBowling Green State UniversityUniversity at Buffalo, the StateUniversity of New YorkFlorida Atlantic UniversityHartwick CollegeNorthern Illinois UniversityWestern Michigan UniversityPersonally, I'm not concerned about the lack of Automatic Qualification in 2099.

ok, so the MAC doesn't get an auto qualifier. Does anyone know why? Obviously for Akron it does not matter. I think we could lose out and still be in the tourney at this point. Still it points to the absolute crap of a league that we are in that they don't even get an auto qualifier for the NCAA tourney.

I sent an e-mail to the MAC office this evening asking if this was true and why. I'll post the response if I get one.

[ZachTheZip]

Zip ME87, you are my hero. I searched for mentions of this in the news, on blogs, and other such sources of information to confirm this, but it never occurred to me to check at the NCAA itself.

[Zip_ME87]

Zip ME87, you are my hero. I searched for mentions of this in the news, on blogs, and other such sources of information to confirm this, but it never occurred to me to check at the NCAA itself.

Thanks to ZW and you for mentioning it in the Nicely thread. I'd not heard this at all, and was actually looking for "The Akron rule" in writing, when I stumbled across this. By the way, I did actually find "The Akron rule" as some have referred to it in an NCAA memo:6. Facility Evaluation Form. A facility evaluation form must be completed by each institution interested in hosting preliminary-round competition. The form is available online at http://web1.ncaa.org/ChampsForms/login. Please save frequently as you complete the form.For preliminary-round sites, a team in the top 16 will automatically be selected as a site, unless the institution did not submit a bid to host. If a game involves two seeded teams, the higher seed will host, unless the institution did not submit a bid to host.If the field is unplayable, the host will have the opportunity to find a suitable alternate site. The criteria for an alternate site would be for the field to have a minimum dimension of 70x110 yards, and the field must be deemed playable by the games committee and approved by the men’s soccer committee.Potential hosts who anticipate the possibility of an unplayable field are encouraged to secure an alternate site prior to selections.The entire memo can be found at: http://ncaa.org/wps/ncaa?key=/ncaa/ncaa/sp...di+mso+bid+memo(Assuming the link works)

[bigzipguy]

Go to topdrawersoccer.com and bring up tournament rankings. I doubt if the NCAA would keep us out.

[tbozeglav]

Go to topdrawersoccer.com and bring up tournament rankings. I doubt if the NCAA would keep us out.

This year? yeah, thats not a problem. Its the subsequent years we were concerned about. Glad to hear we have another 90 years to go... LOL

[zen]

BTW, I thought I saw a response as to why or whether soccer games could be held at the info, and they (can't remember who, Mack?) that the field was large enough but the venue wasn't intimate enough for that type of event.Well, we didn't have the Info last year but we do now. Couldn't the info be our alternate?

[tbozeglav]

BTW, I thought I saw a response as to why or whether soccer games could be held at the info, and they (can't remember who, Mack?) that the field was large enough but the venue wasn't intimate enough for that type of event.Well, we didn't have the Info last year but we do now. Couldn't the info be our alternate?

without proper field markings, no.Id suspect that SV-SM would be a very suitable alternate for us in case of inclement weather making our field unplayable.

[Zippysgotagun]

BTW, I thought I saw a response as to why or whether soccer games could be held at the info, and they (can't remember who, Mack?) that the field was large enough but the venue wasn't intimate enough for that type of event.Well, we didn't have the Info last year but we do now. Couldn't the info be our alternate?

without proper field markings, no.Id suspect that SV-SM would be a very suitable alternate for us in case of inclement weather making our field unplayable.

Is St. V's field big enough? It seemed quite small during the OSU tourney game last year.

[tbozeglav]

BTW, I thought I saw a response as to why or whether soccer games could be held at the info, and they (can't remember who, Mack?) that the field was large enough but the venue wasn't intimate enough for that type of event.Well, we didn't have the Info last year but we do now. Couldn't the info be our alternate?

without proper field markings, no.Id suspect that SV-SM would be a very suitable alternate for us in case of inclement weather making our field unplayable.

Is St. V's field big enough? It seemed quite small during the OSU tourney game last year.

Im not sure of the field's specific dimensions, but i think it felt "small" because of how close the fences are to the soccer lines.

[skip-zip]

If this is true it really would be reason to exit the MAC, however, I'm inclined not to believe it. That doesn't make sense. Not like it really matters to us this year, but it could in other years.

This is what I am thinking also. Yes, we don't need it this year, but what if we did?...or will need it sometime in the future?I don't think it should be a surprise to anyone to see a situation where they might want to eliminate weak conferences from automatic consideration, and leave more at-large bids. That play-in game in the basketball tournament could have been another indication that they are leaning in that direction.

[Zip_ME87]

If this is true it really would be reason to exit the MAC, however, I'm inclined not to believe it. That doesn't make sense. Not like it really matters to us this year, but it could in other years.

This is what I am thinking also. Yes, we don't need it this year, but what if we did?...or will need it sometime in the future?I don't think it should be a surprise to anyone to see a situation where they might want to eliminate weak conferences from automatic consideration, and leave more at-large bids. That play-in game in the basketball tournament could have been another indication that they are leaning in that direction.

I think the MAC's ineligibility is likely for 1 year. I haven't been able to figure it out, but it seems that it may be related to the MAC's changing members for Men's Soccer. The referenced NCAA bylaws (referenced in the NCAA Division I Men's Soccer Championship Handbook) concerning conference automatic qualification are:31.3.4 Automatic Qualification. Each governing sport committee shall forward annually to the Championships/Sports Management Cabinet those conferences that should receive automatic qualification for theirteams or individual student-athletes into NCAA championships. Prior to forwarding the list of conferences toreceive automatic qualification, a governing sport committee shall ensure that the member conference meets therequirements specified in Bylaws 31.3.4.1 through 31.3.4.7. A member conference may appeal to the Championships/Sports Management Cabinet the automatic-qualification review of the sport committee and the committee’sdecision to find, or not find, a conference qualified for automatic-qualification status. The decision of the Championships/Sports Management Cabinet on such appeals will be final. (Revised: 1/14/97 effective 8/1/97, 4/27/00,11/1/07 effective 8/1/08)31.3.4.1 Requirements—Division Championship. To be eligible for automatic qualification in a DivisionChampionship, a member conference must meet the following requirements: (Revised: 1/9/06 effective 8/1/06)(a) Conference competition must be conducted in the applicable sport and the conference champion inthat sport must be determined not later than the date on which participants are selected for the NCAAchampionship, either by regular in-season conference competition or a conference meet or tournament,as indicated at the time of application. If a conference’s competition to determine its automatic qualifieris unexpectedly terminated (e.g., due to inclement weather), the conference may designate its qualifier,provided it has established objective criteria for making that designation and has communicated thatinformation to the appropriate sports committee by a specified deadline. (Revised: 8/13/93)( In the event of a tie for the conference championship, the conference shall have the responsibility of determiningwhich team or individual shall represent the conference in NCAA competition. If a play-off isheld, such competition shall be considered conference competition, not NCAA competition.© In sports other than championship subdivision football, a conference may establish subdivisions andconduct competition within each subdivision to determine a conference champion, as long as each subdivisionconsists of at least four members. Conferences with subdivisions of four members must conductdouble round-robin competition within each subdivision, plus a postseason tournament, to determinetheir champion. Conferences with subdivisions of five or more members may conduct either single ordouble round-robin competition within each subdivision, plus a postseason tournament to determinetheir champion. (Note: This regulation does not apply to Division I men’s or women’s basketball. In thosesports, a conference may conduct either double round-robin, in-season competition, or a minimum of 14conference games in order to determine its champion.) (Revised: 12/9/91, 10/18/95, 10/27/98, 12/15/06)(d) In championship subdivision football, football-playing conferences that subdivide into five or more teamsare required to conduct a single round-robin competition within each division and develop a formulafor determination of the conference champion, which must be approved by the Football ChampionshipCommittee prior to the start of the season. A postseason championship game is not required. (Adopted:10/27/98, Revised: 12/15/06)(e) The conference must maintain and actively enforce compliance with eligibility rules at least as stringentas those in Bylaw 14 applicable to its members. The use of an ineligible student-athlete by a team in aconference that has been granted automatic qualification may result in the involved team being deniedthe right to be the automatic entry in the NCAA championship. The governing sports committee mayrecommend loss of the automatic-qualification privilege for the conference during the season in whichthe violation occurred or for a future championship.(f ) All eligible member institutions must agree to participate in the appropriate NCAA championship. If aconference champion is ineligible to compete, declines to compete or cannot compete for any reason,automatic qualification shall be withdrawn for that year and the remaining conference members shallbe considered at large. Automatic qualification for a conference shall not be withdrawn if a conferencechampion declines to compete in an NCAA championship for reasons related to written religious policiesagainst competition on certain days. Under such circumstances, the conference’s second-place team(as determined by the conference), shall receive the automatic bid to the NCAA championship. (Revised:4/20/99)(g) All institutions may hold membership in only that conference in the sport in which automatic qualificationis sought and may participate in only that conference’s process to determine the automatic qualifier.(Adopted: 12/5/94)31.3.4.2 Requirements—National Collegiate Championship. [#] To be eligible for automatic qualificationin National Collegiate Championship, a member conference must meet the following general requirements:(Adopted: 1/9/06 effective 8/1/06)(a) Have at least six active members that sponsor the applicable sport in any division (note: a provisionalmember in the process of becoming an NCAA member cannot be used to meet the requisite number);( The six active members must have conducted conference competition together for the preceding twoyears in the applicable sport;© There shall be no waivers of the two-year waiting period; and(d) Any new member added to a conference that is eligible for an automatic bid shall be immediately eligibleto represent the conference as the automatic qualifer.31.3.4.3 Notification—Automatic Qualification in Jeopardy. A governing sports committee must issuea written warning one year in advance to a conference that is in jeopardy of losing its automatic qualification.(Note: This regulation does not apply to the following championships in which a play-in system has been established:baseball, women’s softball, women’s volleyball and men’s soccer.) (Adopted: 10/3/06)31.3.4.4 Additional Requirements, Sports Other Than Men’s Basketball.31.3.4.4.1 Multi-Sport Conference. To be considered eligible for automatic qualification in a particularsport, a multi-sport conference must include six core institutions that satisfy continuity-of-membership.For the purposes of this legislation, core refers to an institution that has been an active member of DivisionI the eight preceding years. Further, the continuity-of-membership requirement shall be met only if a minimumof six core institutions have conducted conference competition together in Division I the precedingtwo years in the applicable sport. There shall be no exceptions to the two-year period. Any new memberadded to a conference that satisfies the continuity of membership requirements shall be immediately eligibleto represent the conference as the automatic qualifier. (Revised: 4/27/00, 10/00, 4/29/04 effective 8/1/04,8/5/04)31.3.4.4.1.1 Exception. A multi-sport conference that adds a conference-sponsored sport may beconsidered for automatic qualification in that sport, provided the conference includes at least six activeDivision I institutions that have conducted conference competition together at the Division I level inthe sport the preceding two years and the sport is sponsored by less than 50 percent of the Division Imembership. (Adopted: 4/27/06 effective 8/1/06)31.3.4.4.2 Single Sport Conference. To be considered for automatic qualification in a particular sport,a single sport member conference for a sport sponsored by less than 50 percent of the Division I membershipmust include six institutions that have conducted conference competition together the preceding twoyears in the sport in question at the Division I level. (Adopted: 8/5/04, Revised: 4/27/06 effective 8/1/06)31.3.4.4.3 Grace Period. A conference shall remain eligible for automatic qualification for two yearsfollowing the date of withdrawal of the institution(s) that causes the conference’s membership to fall belowsix institutions, or below six members with continuity of membership, provided the conference maintainsat least five Division I members. (Adopted: 8/5/04)31.3.4.4.4 Exception—2002-03 Academic Year. After September 1, 2003, a member conference thatmet the requirements for automatic qualification during the 2002-03 academic year may continue to receiveautomatic qualification provided the conference composition does not change (unless the change results inthe addition of a core member). (Adopted: 4/24/03)31.3.4.5 Additional Requirements, Men’s Basketball. The member conference must include seven coreinstitutions. For the purposes of this legislation, core refers to an institution that has been an active member ofDivision I the eight preceding years. Further, the continuity-of-membership requirement shall be met only ifa minimum of six core institutions have conducted conference competition together in Division I the precedingfive years in men’s basketball. There shall be no exception to the five-year waiting period. Any new memberadded to a member conference that satisfies these requirements shall be immediately eligible to represent theconference as the automatic qualifier. (Revised: 8/14/90, 12/3/90, 4/27/00, 4/29/04 effective 8/1/04)31.3.4.5.1 Grace Period. A conference shall remain eligible for automatic qualification for two yearsfollowing the date of withdrawal of the institution(s) that causes the conference’s membership to fall belowseven institutions, or below six members with continuity of membership, provided the conference maintainsat least six Division I members. (Adopted: 4/27/00, Revised: 4/29/04 effective 8/1/04)31.3.4.5.2 Exceptions.(a) Prior to September 1, 2003, the eight-year core principle does not apply to an institution that was aDivision I active member, provisional member or a member in the process of reclassifying to DivisionI as of April 27, 2000. Such an institution would be subject to the provisions in effect on April27, 2000. The institution may continue to be considered a core institution after September 1, 2003,even if the institution has not been an active member of Division I the eight preceding years. (Revised:11/01/01)( Men’s Basketball. After September 1, 2003, a member conference as of September 1, 1999, maycontinue to apply the automatic qualification requirements in effect September 1, 1999, until anychange (e.g., adding or losing any member) in its men’s basketball membership occurs. Thereafter,the automatic qualification regulations in effect September 1, 2003, shall be applicable.31.3.4.6 Sports Groupings for Automatic Qualification. For purposes of evaluating criteria for automaticqualification, the various sports shall be grouped as follows:(a) Team sports—baseball, basketball, field hockey, football, ice hockey, lacrosse, soccer, softball, volleyballand water polo. In this category, subject to the approval of the Championships/Sports ManagementCabinet, a sport committee may grant exceptions to the six-team requirement for sports that are sponsoredby less than 30 percent of the membership, provided the conference previously included six teamsthat sponsored the sport; (Revised: 4/26/07 effective 8/1/07, 11/1/07 effective 8/1/08)( Timed individual sports—indoor track and field, outdoor track and field, and swimming; and© Other individual sports—cross country, fencing, golf, gymnastics, rifle, skiing, tennis and wrestling.In this category, a sports committee may grant exceptions to the six-team requirement, subject to the approvalof the Championships/Sports Management Cabinet. (Revised: 11/1/07 effective 8/1/08)31.3.4.7 Limitations on Automatic-Qualifying Positions.31.3.4.7.1 Team Sports Other Than Men’s Basketball. In team sports, per Bylaw 31.3.4.6-(a), excludingthe sport of football and any team sport in which automatic qualification is not offered, a sportscommittee must award, when a sufficient number of applications for automatic qualification exist, at least50 percent of the championship field to conferences that meet automatic-qualification criteria and providea play-in criteria. The remaining 50 percent of the championship field shall be reserved for at-large teams.It will be the responsibility of the Championships/Sports Management Cabinet to determine if conferenceplay-ins to a championship field are to be administered by the NCAA championships staff or by the memberconferences. (Adopted: 4/20/99, Revised: 11/1/07 effective 8/1/08)31.3.4.7.2 Men’s Basketball. In men’s basketball, subject to the championships-access guarantee affordedto the subdivisions as set forth in Constitution 4.01.2.3.1 (e.g., all contests that are part of the championshipshall be administered and funded by the NCAA and broadcast on television and any team thatparticipates in the championship shall be awarded at least one financial unit), there shall be a limit minimumof 32 at-large selections and the remainder of the championship field automatic qualifying positions.All competition in the championship is to be administered by the NCAA championships staff. (Adopted:4/20/99, Revised: 12/15/06)31.3.5 Selection of Balance of Championship Field. Once the official representative(s) of each qualifyingconference is determined, the governing sports committee responsible for selection of the balance of thechampionship field shall consider objectively and without prejudice the competitive records of all other eligiblestudent-athletes and teams (including representatives of the other members of the conferences receiving automaticqualification). To the best of its ability, the committee shall select the most highly qualified individuals and teamsto complete the championship field in accordance with the regional structure, if any, approved for the particularchampionship.

[meatwad]

I love the random sunglass smileys in your response. Thanks for the info.

[Zip_ME87]

I *think* I may have found it, here's what I see:31.3.4.4.1 Multi-Sport Conference.To be considered eligible for automatic qualification in a particular sport, a multi-sport conference must include six core institutions that satisfy continuity-of-membership. For the purposes of this legislation, core refers to an institution that has been an active member of Division I the eight preceding years. Further, the continuity-of-membership requirement shall be met only if a minimum of six core institutions have conducted conference competition together in Division I the preceding two years in the applicable sport. There shall be no exceptions to the two-year period. Any new member added to a conference that satisfies the continuity of membership requirements shall be immediately eligible to represent the conference as the automatic qualifier.I believe Hartwick is technically considered to be a member of Division III, as only Men's Soccer and Women's Polo are classified as Division I sports (they're allowed one sport for each gender), therefore that knocks our "core institutions" down to six.Then, the six core institutions must have "conducted conference competition together in Division I the preceding two years". Florida Atlantic joined the MAC in 2008, so that knocks them out FAU Defeated in MAC Debut. That takes us down to five teams, which takes us out of Automatic Bids.Does anyone see something different?

But the MAC currently has 7 teams, 6 of which have competed together for the preceding 2 years (Hartwick joined in 2007).AkronBuffaloWestern MichiganNorthern IllinoisBowling GreenHartwickFlorida AtlanticThis is why I haven't been able to figure it out. Am I missing something? (Hartwick is Div I for men's soccer and meets the eight year requirement for that, I believe, when I looked at their website.)EDIT: I missed this in your post - I believe Hartwick is technically considered to be a member of Division III, as only Men's Soccer and Women's Polo are classified as Division I sports (they're allowed one sport for each gender), therefore that knocks our "core institutions" down to six.You might be right about Hartwick. But, since they are Div I for Men's Soccer and have been for years, I believe, I would have thought that they qualified as a "core institution".

[MDZip]

Sad thing is that every MAC school expect Toledo once fielded a soccer team (Toledo may have but we never played them). Of the remaining six schools only CMU (once) and Ohio (3 times) ever beat us (maybe that's why they all dropped out? More than likely it was title nine issues, I'm betting). Just a darn shame that we can't hold a conference together that had so many members playing the sport at one time. :(By the way, Zip_ME87, no response from the MAC office on your inquiry?

[Zip_ME87]

Sad thing is that every MAC school expect Toledo once fielded a soccer team (Toledo may have but we never played them). Of the remaining six schools only CMU (once) and Ohio (3 times) ever beat us (maybe that's why they all dropped out? More than likely it was title nine issues, I'm betting). Just a darn shame that we can't hold a conference together that had so many members playing the sport at one time. :(By the way, Zip_ME87, no response from the MAC office on your inquiry?

Of course not...as expected.EDIT: And, BTW...the e-mail I sent was pleasant, just asking if it was true that the MAC had no automatic berth this year and why.