New Arena Rumor

[xu9697]

Anyone ever been? http://www.lexingtoncenter.com/shops/I was there in the late 1990's. This is the type of thing I think about when I see the plans that have been posted before.http://www.osportsarch.com/Portfolio.aspxAnywho, I am all about urban development and keeping things "on the street" vs. too much containment. However, I think if this is done the right way, with a hotel (space for visiting teams from Akron), with the right shops, right restaurants, etc. I think it can definitely work. Downtown malls are dying in general, but tying in a hotel, possible apartments and meeting/smaller rec area for students, the arena (and the events that come with it), the university and attractions like the Aeros...I do think this is a plan that can work and work for all.NOT trying to restart "downtown" vs. "campus" and which is better. I can see both sides. More focused on the fact that IF this type of facility is built, I think there is enough of a combination of office workers, visitors, arena and activity attendees and students to make it work.

We only have one downtown hotel today and it has less than 50% occupancy. Not sure how Akron can support another one. Space for visiting teams -- that's 10-12 rooms max. for basketball. Visiting Football teams stay at cheapest decent hotel, often 5-10 miles outside of town. OU always stays at Falls Sheraton.Also important to note that Zips only had 2,400 for possibly the premier non-conference home game of the year. Not a compelling reason to build an arena in today's economic environment.

I hear the occupancy issue. And the economic issue. No doubt those are real. But it isn't going to be up tomorrow. This is at least 3 to 5 years away. And if you (not you personally) don't have a vision for that far ahead, then there is a problem.Also, I absolutely can't stand the 2.400 for premier game argument. First of all, to many, Rhode Island is NOT a premier game. 2nd of all, part of the reason I AVOID the JAR is nothing around it to do (most specifically..have to eat and drink somewhere, park there, then get back in the car and drive to the JAR) and most available seats (with chairbacks) for a reasonable price (not $30)are always the ones in the first 2 rows where everyone walks by and blocks the view. Give me a nice venue with some amenities next to it, and you will have the more "casual" fan (and the one that has to drive 50 minutes in GOOD weather) there more often. Obviously, the program and the schedule has to grow..but the pieces are there, and we have to move now if we want to have the right thing (whatever that might be) in 3 to 5 years.

[ziptrumpet87]

Out of curiosity, does anyone know how the 2008 renovations at Toledo affected their budget (new loges) and attendance? Obviously the attendance would be somewhat affected by the team record, so that should probably be noted in any comparison.

[MaxZIP]

Out of curiosity, does anyone know how the 2008 renovations at Toledo affected their budget (new loges) and attendance? Obviously the attendance would be somewhat affected by the team record, so that should probably be noted in any comparison.

http://www.utrockets.com/ViewArticle.dbml?...;ATCLID=3746476Some interesting numbers in this article.46th in women's as wellhttp://www.utrockets.com/ViewArticle.dbml?...;ATCLID=3738382EDIT:2008-2009:5610 fans/game16th largest increase in nation of 1006 fans/gameUT ranked 98th nationally and were one spot behind No. 97 Southern Cal (5,618) and one place in front of No. 99 Boston College (5,548).They went 8-8 at home in 08-09 including two losses to the zips!!!

[MaxZIP]

From Wikipedia...As of July 17, 2006, a gift of $5 million, the largest single gift ever made to the UT athletic department, has been donated and earmarked for use on the new Savage Hall update project. These funds will be used along with those obtained in a capital raising campaign in order to make major repairs and upgrades to the facility, including an all new athletic center. Final plans include new locker rooms, weight rooms, a pro shop, a Rocket Hall-of-Fame, new ticket offices and a professional office area, not to mention a revamping of the main arena area which will modernize every aspect of the Savage Hall experience. The complex was also renamed Savage Arena.There are also plans in the works to attach an enclosed indoor practice complex for both the basketball and football teams.Right now a 30 million dollar renovation is underway on Savage Arena, adding more seats and adding two new parts to the building. The project was completed before the 2008–09 basketball season.Now 30 million sounds like we could be 3/4 of the way to a new arena.

[Dave in Green]

Great question.Average Toledo men's basketball home game attendance:2009-2010 -- 4038 (3-21 overall record)2008-2009 -- 5610 (7-25)2007-2008 -- 4605 (11-19)2006-2007 -- 5752 (18-11)2005-2006 -- 4096 (20-11)2004-2005 -- 4508 (16-13)2003-2004 -- 5292 (20-11)2002-2003 -- 4826 (13-16)Team record, quality of home game opponents, weather and economy will all play some role. But the big bump up in 2008-2009 certainly was not helped by the team's record. The even bigger bump up in 2006-2007 was almost certainly the result of two good seasons in a row for the otherwise up and down Rockets.

[MaxZIP]

Great question.Average Toledo men's basketball home game attendance:2009-2010 -- 4038 (3-21 overall record)2008-2009 -- 5610 (7-25)2007-2008 -- 4605 (11-19)2006-2007 -- 5752 (18-11)2005-2006 -- 4096 (20-11)2004-2005 -- 4508 (16-13)2003-2004 -- 5292 (20-11)2002-2003 -- 4826 (13-16)Team record, quality of home game opponents, weather and economy will all play some role. But the big bump up in 2008-2009 certainly was not helped by the team's record. The even bigger bump up in 2006-2007 was almost certainly the result of two good seasons in a row for the otherwise up and down Rockets.

Akron...2009 2,984 23-12 (10-6)2008 3,454 24-11 (11-5)2007 3,593 26-7 (13-3)2006 3,469 23-10 (14-4)2005 3,369 19-10 (11-7)2004 2,760 13-15 (7-11)So 20+wins/season streak led to moderate attendance increases before the economy thwarted progress? This year is bound to be in the 2,500-2,750 range. How is Toledo able to attract so many fans. We need to copy what they have been doing. Do they market their product or just have cheap tickets?

[Dave in Green]

I think there was a local connection with the presence of LeBron's ex-HS teammates that also contributed at least partly to the Zips' higher numbers of a few years ago.It is embarassing that the Akron area can't turn out as many fans as the Toledo area for a more consistent winning team.

[ziptrumpet87]

The pictures of Toledo's new arena look nice. They are probably helped some if they are in their own media market.

[OZoner]

While waiting around for the new arena ("The House that LBJ and Zeke built"), Akron should schedule 1 game over the next 3 years at the Q against a high profile team. It will help grow interest & could help garner some additional funds.

Not a bad idea, but both Ohio and that other school off I-76 have tried this and did not draw well. On the other hand, it's possible to get an away-and-neutral with a better team than you'd get a home-and-home with.

[MaxZIP]

I think there was a local connection with the presence of LeBron's ex-HS teammates that also contributed at least partly to the Zips' higher numbers of a few years ago.It is embarassing that the Akron area can't turn out as many fans as the Toledo area for a more consistent winning team.

Hell LeBron's entourage alone could fill the jar.

[ZachTheZip]

While waiting around for the new arena ("The House that LBJ and Zeke built"), Akron should schedule 1 game over the next 3 years at the Q against a high profile team. It will help grow interest & could help garner some additional funds.

Not a bad idea, but both Ohio and that other school off I-76 have tried this and did not draw well. On the other hand, it's possible to get an away-and-neutral with a better team than you'd get a home-and-home with.

Only one team would draw well at the Q against a MAC team, and that's Ohio State. No other team brings the interest they do. Pitt would be second, but they would have to being their own fans from Pittsburgh while OSU draws the locals.

[OZoner]

While waiting around for the new arena ("The House that LBJ and Zeke built"), Akron should schedule 1 game over the next 3 years at the Q against a high profile team. It will help grow interest & could help garner some additional funds.

Not a bad idea, but both Ohio and that other school off I-76 have tried this and did not draw well. On the other hand, it's possible to get an away-and-neutral with a better team than you'd get a home-and-home with.

Only one team would draw well at the Q against a MAC team, and that's Ohio State. No other team brings the interest they do. Pitt would be second, but they would have to being their own fans from Pittsburgh while OSU draws the locals.

tOSU basketball doesn't carry a tenth of the cache football does in NEO. Pitt might actually be a better draw. College basketball just doesn't capture the attention of the area.

[Zips Win!]

I think there was a local connection with the presence of LeBron's ex-HS teammates that also contributed at least partly to the Zips' higher numbers of a few years ago.It is embarassing that the Akron area can't turn out as many fans as the Toledo area for a more consistent winning team.

Hell LeBron's entourage alone could fill the jar.

Lebron hasn't done a damn thing other than giving us some free shoes...FSU (free shoes university) here we come....

[xu9697]

While waiting around for the new arena ("The House that LBJ and Zeke built"), Akron should schedule 1 game over the next 3 years at the Q against a high profile team. It will help grow interest & could help garner some additional funds.

Not a bad idea, but both Ohio and that other school off I-76 have tried this and did not draw well. On the other hand, it's possible to get an away-and-neutral with a better team than you'd get a home-and-home with.

Only one team would draw well at the Q against a MAC team, and that's Ohio State. No other team brings the interest they do. Pitt would be second, but they would have to being their own fans from Pittsburgh while OSU draws the locals.

I think Michigan, Michigan State, West Virginia, Pittsburgh, Syracuse are just a few schools within 5 hours that would draw well both from the locals and some of their fans. And, really, if the game is at the Q who cares if it is, say, 50% Akron fans and 50% Pittsburgh fans. It would still NOT BE A ROAD GAME IN THEIR PLACE.The problem is the TIMING of the game. WVU came to CSU in mid-Dec..college basketball just hasn't heated up at that time. They had 5,500 there but many were WVU fans. And, no doubt, the success of the Cavaliers makes it more difficult for college basketball to draw.If the timing was right and build up (advertisement in print, radio and TV) was right..I think 9,000-10,000 fans at the Q is possible for an Akron vs. Pitt game.In an ideal world, we would schedule a double header with CSU or that team from 8 miles away also playing a big-time team. Schedule it on a night when hopefully the Cavs don't play at all (obviously, road game) and the Browns are not in town. Make it THE event of the weekend. CSU vs. Michigan 6PMAkron vs. Pitt 8:30 PMHarken back to the days of the Rock-n-Roll shootout (yes, it had some good years!!).

[wadszip]

While waiting around for the new arena ("The House that LBJ and Zeke built"), Akron should schedule 1 game over the next 3 years at the Q against a high profile team. It will help grow interest & could help garner some additional funds.

Not a bad idea, but both Ohio and that other school off I-76 have tried this and did not draw well. On the other hand, it's possible to get an away-and-neutral with a better team than you'd get a home-and-home with.

Only one team would draw well at the Q against a MAC team, and that's Ohio State. No other team brings the interest they do. Pitt would be second, but they would have to being their own fans from Pittsburgh while OSU draws the locals.

I think Michigan, Michigan State, West Virginia, Pittsburgh, Syracuse are just a few schools within 5 hours that would draw well both from the locals and some of their fans. And, really, if the game is at the Q who cares if it is, say, 50% Akron fans and 50% Pittsburgh fans. It would still NOT BE A ROAD GAME IN THEIR PLACE.The problem is the TIMING of the game. WVU came to CSU in mid-Dec..college basketball just hasn't heated up at that time. They had 5,500 there but many were WVU fans. And, no doubt, the success of the Cavaliers makes it more difficult for college basketball to draw.If the timing was right and build up (advertisement in print, radio and TV) was right..I think 9,000-10,000 fans at the Q is possible for an Akron vs. Pitt game.In an ideal world, we would schedule a double header with CSU or that team from 8 miles away also playing a big-time team. Schedule it on a night when hopefully the Cavs don't play at all (obviously, road game) and the Browns are not in town. Make it THE event of the weekend. CSU vs. Michigan 6PMAkron vs. Pitt 8:30 PMHarken back to the days of the Rock-n-Roll shootout (yes, it had some good years!!).

The Rock-n-Roll Shootout indeed had some good years and some great basketball games, but I don't think the card you proposed is economically feasible with two "high-majors". They are going to want a lot of guaranteed money to forfeit a home game to come to Cleveland. Akron would be better off trying to go at it alone with Pitt at the Q. There wouldn't be more than 5,000 CSU and Michigan fans combined.Akron-Pitt could draw well. I could see as much as 10-12,000. If the two schools combine to bring 7-8,000, I could see 3-4,000 non-affliated fans coming out due to Pitt being a top 15 program and having Cameron Wright (a Benedictine kid) coming in next year. But Pitt would be no better than my fifth choice.In order, this is who I would like to see Akron play:1. Kentucky - Kentucky fans would bring 10,000 to Cleveland to watch an intra-squad scrimmage. It's a marquee name and, though Kentucky doesn't have any players from NEO, non-affiliated fans would show up to get a chance to see Coach Cal and Co. in Cleveland. That game could sell out (10,000 Kentucky fans, 3-4,000 Akron fans, 6-7,000 just to see the Calapari sideshow).2. Michigan State - Spartan fans travel well, it's a bigger name program to people in NEO than Pitt and you could generate a lot of local interest with Delvon Roe (St. Edward). I could see between 15-18,000 for that.3. Ohio State - Ohio State basketball is an afterthought to football, but with the recruiting class they have coming in, there seems to be a buzz. I can see a big draw to watch Jared Sullinger and DeShaun Thomas. Of course, those guys could both be one-and-done, so if that game isn't next year, then it would draw no better than Pitt.4. North Carolina - North Carolina fans won't travel like Kentucky fans, but it's a program that people in NEO would show up to see. Didn't about 15,000 show up when Carolina came to the Q a couple of years ago to play CSU? I know Carolina had Jawad Williams (St. Edward), but I still think you could see a similiar crowd without that local connection.After that Pitt and Louisville (who has a local kid Zack Price coming in) would be my next choices. There is some high-major talent coming up in the Cleveland area (Benedictine, St. Edward and Garfield Heights all have stud freshmen) so I could see those schools interested in heading up here as a another way to sell their product. It's also a way for the Zips to sell their product to fans in Northeast Ohio. It's obvious by attendance this year (that's on top of landing Zeke and coming off an NCAA appearance) that the Rhode Islands of the world aren't cutting it.But Cleveland State will probably be the school that brings in one of those teams, and Akron will keep bringing in a couple of mid-majors that, while they are nice programs, the average fan has no incentive to come to the JAR to watch.To bring this back on topic. In order to justify a new arena, it's important that the Zips continue to win. But winning isn't enough. The school has to sway the Northeast Ohio basketball fans (who aren't Can't State or CSU students or alums) on their side. The best way to do that is to play (and hopefully upset) big-time schools. The easiest way to do that is to get them on a neutral court in your backyard. The Q offers the venue. Cleveland is an area schools would be willing to come for recruiting purposes.Even losing a game like is more productive for a program than beating up on a tomato can like South Carolina Upstate at home. If nothing else, you sell to your own recruits that if you come to Akron, you are going to get a chance to play a Kentucky, Pitt, Louisville, MSU, etc. at LeBron's house.

[MaxZIP]

So a new arena thread has turned into a neutral site invitational conversation?

[Dave in Green]

How about an update on attendance for a 12-year-old arena at Ohio's most popular institution of higher sports:Plain Dealer Link

[MDZip]

Anyone seen the palace that Orgeon is building? (of course they have Nike money backing it). $220M, the most expensive college basketball arena ever built.

http://blog.oregonlive.com/behindducksbeat...ns_matthew.html