National Championship

[RootforRoo44]

The issue with playing until someone scores is a difficult one but I think PKs is the way to go.

You may be the only person in the world who thinks that.Penalty Kicks for a national title is just plain stupid...add on the whole mess on what's considered a tie and what's not bullcrap and it's no wonder this is the same NCAA that is responsible for the joke that is the BCS.

I doubt I'm the only one. You have to understand that these guys run for 5-6 miles per 90 minutes. So even in extra time their bodies are being pushed. I understand they are in top shape but weather and general fatigue all play a part. People cramp up after 60 minutes sometimes. You can't just expect these guys to play for 150 or sometimes two minutes. Like I said earlier you might think PKs suck but after 150 minutes of hard back and forth play imagine how you would feel about a sloppy, cheap goal.

Players wouldn't be THAT tired, it's called playing your heart out til the end. Besides there are plenty of players on each bench, and it would be far from sloppy. Someone mentioned removing a player from the field each overtime, that is the perfect solution as well. These guys are college athletes, i can easily expect them to play another 40-50 minutes like that, the better team would still win, period. Also, you are right. There are probably 2 of you that think that.

You act like it's just a player's will that allows them to play forever. It's called physical limitations. How much do your baseball players run in an average game? Soccer is a different game than any other sport. Having depth isn't really that important except for injuries. Yes sure at the level of National Championship play both teams do have incredible depth but it is asinine to ask a player to come off the bench cold and play at the same level of play as everyone else.You guys all bitch about soccer being boring, yet PKs are about pitting your best players against their best players and seeing if they can score. These are direct shots on goal. That's action. Quit your bitching. If we had won 3-2 90% of you wouldn't be saying shit about the system. These rules have been in place forever. Deal with them.

First off, there is that second person. See, there are two people that like PK's. Secondly, 1991 is hardly forever. Also, are you saying that no one is allowed to substitute at all? With substitutions it would allow for good play the rest of the game. And one last time, the mentioning of removing a player for the first overtime and another for the second would be a great idea, therefore eliminating the need to go more than the 2 OT's we already play. This is simple stuff, i'm shocked it's so hard for two of you to grasp, PK's are idiotic and i could/would have told you that before this ever happened to us.

[Z.I.P.]

Not a perfect solution, but what about the NHL system of taking one player off the field (in this case I would make it a starting defender) before each OT period? Even let the other coach decide who to sit. Open the game up a bit, settle it on the field.

That's regular season. Wanna know how the NHL decides a playoff game? 5 on 5 overtime, 20 minutes. repeat if necessary. shootouts are a gimmick to give the fans the satisfaction of not seeing a tie in the regular season. The NCAA should take note...don't decide the nat'l championship on a gimmick.

EXACTLY...the same thing could be used in the NCAA. I'm totally fine with PK's in the regular season as tieing is unAmerican and anti-sport. Seeing 3 numbers on someones record is just plain wrong. But when it comes to the playoffs, the best team should be afforded the chance to win, not be shafted by a stupid rule.

I just LOVE this comment!!! Soccer, as Americans prefer to call football, has been referred to as "The Barack Obama of sports". Many refuse to accept it, calling it a foreign-born influence and alien assault on our native sports culture. But others inform us that soccer is indeed the future of American sports, if the U.S. is, as is continually stated, the center of a global culture. Culture, they point out, is transfused in both directions, and therefore the center of any "global system" cannot escape transmission of a cultural touchpoint which the remainer of the globe places at the center of their sporting lives.Interestingly, it is the American cultural power over international sports which has resulted in such concepts as "tie-breakers", "sudden-death overtime", and most presciently, penalty kick shoot-outs. It is the spread of American values into the international sporting arena that dictates that no game may end with the teams at equal results -- that one side must not only defeat, but "vanquish" their opponent ("sudden death"?) as if it were a true "war" on the battle field.For those young people posting here, who have little experiential background on the history of the NCAA Soccer Championships, a history lesson may be due. Soccer is the one (perhaps only?) team sport in which the NCAA has declared co-national champions. Penalty kicks were not used to determine a champion until the 1990s. And, as you can see in the Wikipedia link below, championship matches have gone as long as eight (8) overtimes! I believe in the first one, the coaches tried to negotiate a draw and co-championship before the 8th OT, but officials prevented it on the field. It wasn't until the 1990 title game that PKs were used after 4 OT periods. This is just the second final to use the FIFA rules which allow just two overtime periods. While hardcore football/soccer fans continue to shake their heads at the many differences between the rules of American collegiate soccer and the international rules, and point to the college game as the biggest reason why the U.S. will never excel on the international stage, the overall trend is toward a conciliation of the two sets of rules, again showing how international systems come together when it is most important to the broad cultural landscape.At the bottom of this link is the history since 1959 of NCAA men's soccer championships. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NCAA_Men'...er_ChampionshipCan anyone guess how long it will take before our Great mods determine that this post is overly political in nature and should be restricted to the "Off-Topic Smack and Jokes" Forum?

[RootforRoo44]

well let's not get too crazy...if soccer was the Barrack Obama of sports there WOULD have been co champions. And then directly following the game the winners would apologize to the losers for beating them. Following that the winners would split up the trophy and redistribute it back to the losers and the winners would be told they are wrong for trying to succeed and be better.NOW we're off topic.

[meatwad]

well let's not get too crazy...if soccer was the Barrack Obama of sports there WOULD have been co champions. And then directly following the game the winners would apologize to the losers for beating them. Following that the winners would split up the trophy and redistribute it back to the losers and the winners would be told they are wrong for trying to succeed and be better.NOW we're off topic.

It's getting heavy in here.

[bUAkronG]

thank you for the history, Z.I.P.Clearly my youth has gotten the better of me. All I'm saying is I've grown up playing and being around soccer and for as long as I can remember, if you couldn't settle the game through overtime you went to PKs.RfR44, you have been an ass on this forum many times before and just like always you will never be wrong so I am going to let you be omniscient yet again. I never said I agree with the rules but I can't say I disagree with them either.I know in HS when we played our overtimes were not golden goal. But even then a winner was determined through PKs.

[zippyrifle32]

You act like it's just a player's will that allows them to play forever. It's called physical limitations. How much do your baseball players run in an average game? Soccer is a different game than any other sport. Having depth isn't really that important except for injuries. Yes sure at the level of National Championship play both teams do have incredible depth but it is asinine to ask a player to come off the bench cold and play at the same level of play as everyone else.You guys all bitch about soccer being boring, yet PKs are about pitting your best players against their best players and seeing if they can score. These are direct shots on goal. That's action. Quit your bitching. If we had won 3-2 90% of you wouldn't be saying shit about the system. These rules have been in place forever. Deal with them.

+1 it sucks, but whining about the rules and coming up with conspiracy theories as to why we lost just makes our fan base look like pathetic, pissy sore losers.

[Zipsrifle]

You act like it's just a player's will that allows them to play forever. It's called physical limitations. How much do your baseball players run in an average game? Soccer is a different game than any other sport. Having depth isn't really that important except for injuries. Yes sure at the level of National Championship play both teams do have incredible depth but it is asinine to ask a player to come off the bench cold and play at the same level of play as everyone else.You guys all bitch about soccer being boring, yet PKs are about pitting your best players against their best players and seeing if they can score. These are direct shots on goal. That's action. Quit your bitching. If we had won 3-2 90% of you wouldn't be saying shit about the system. These rules have been in place forever. Deal with them.

+1 it sucks, but whining about the rules and coming up with conspiracy theories as to why we lost just makes our fan base look like pathetic, pissy sore losers.

+2You play with the rules you have. Everyone who had any influence in the outcome knew the rules beforehand. If the rules are changed in the future, great, but I am not in a position to infer how. I congratulate UVA on a hard fought game. Remember, they kept a team that was rewriting the record book scoreless and found a way to win. I also don't buy the conasiprcy theories. The statement this team made during the season assured we were too high profile to simply sweep under the rug. Prior to this season, I never understood why people are drawn to soccer, but I do now. When do tickets go on sale for next season? Finally, I cannot express how proud I am of this team! You have accomplised more than anyone ever expected and did it in the upmost fashion. Great job!

[UA Fan]

For most of us, this was our first up close and personal experience with the tiebreak system. Once you've been through it firsthand (win or lose), you're better able to form an opinion. I liked the analogy someone gave of settling a tie basketball game by lining up for free throws, or playing home run derby to decide a tie baseball game. It's fair enough if that's the rules, but it's not what the game is about. Because soccer is usually low-scoring (or no-scoring), it could take a lot of OT to finish; that's why there should be some kind of rule adjustments in OT. I think if you took a poll of fans (other than Akron and UVA) about 95% would be in favor of modified-OT rather than penalty kicks.

[UA Fan]

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/soccerins...e.html#commentsSome good reader comments, including neutral fans..

[bUAkronG]

Well, this neutral fan didn't find it boring. I should say I started neutral and hoping for a great game but by the time my DVR kicked off (I missed OT) I was screaming at the TV. Apologies to VBB, but I thought that was a disgusting display of cynical hack job soccer. Virginia was slower to the ball and obviously less skillful almost to a man and compensated for that simply by fouling the attacker virtually every time they were beaten. (And 4-5-1 is no way to play ball.)But what really took the cake was Kyle Martino. What a f'g HOMER! I watched Cat Whitehill call 2 womens' games including the final for UNC and virtually the only reason you would know she was a Tarheel was the other announcer kept reminding everyone. Martino should go do something else. He stinks.At one point, when hack job Hunter Jumper (what a name for Wahoo, doesnt get any better than that, unless your birth certificate says Biff) got a well-deserved yellow, Martino actually said -- "Well he got there late and had no choice but to go at his feet." Whuuut? How about play it clean? Is that really the UVA mentality -- if you're beat you have no choice but to sweep the leg and take the yellow? I refuse to believe it on the evidence of one game, but I tell you that was not a "championship" display in my book.I was really disappointed to plug in here and learn that UVA had won. Akron was a far superior team on the evidence of that game.

[Hilltopper]

Well, this neutral fan didn't find it boring. I should say I started neutral and hoping for a great game but by the time my DVR kicked off (I missed OT) I was screaming at the TV. Apologies to VBB, but I thought that was a disgusting display of cynical hack job soccer. Virginia was slower to the ball and obviously less skillful almost to a man and compensated for that simply by fouling the attacker virtually every time they were beaten. (And 4-5-1 is no way to play ball.)But what really took the cake was Kyle Martino. What a f'g HOMER! I watched Cat Whitehill call 2 womens' games including the final for UNC and virtually the only reason you would know she was a Tarheel was the other announcer kept reminding everyone. Martino should go do something else. He stinks.At one point, when hack job Hunter Jumper (what a name for Wahoo, doesnt get any better than that, unless your birth certificate says Biff) got a well-deserved yellow, Martino actually said -- "Well he got there late and had no choice but to go at his feet." Whuuut? How about play it clean? Is that really the UVA mentality -- if you're beat you have no choice but to sweep the leg and take the yellow? I refuse to believe it on the evidence of one game, but I tell you that was not a "championship" display in my book.I was really disappointed to plug in here and learn that UVA had won. Akron was a far superior team on the evidence of that game.

Like I said during the game, #17 is a thug!

[Spin]

Well, they say you gotta lose one before you win one.

[RootforRoo44]

You act like it's just a player's will that allows them to play forever. It's called physical limitations. How much do your baseball players run in an average game? Soccer is a different game than any other sport. Having depth isn't really that important except for injuries. Yes sure at the level of National Championship play both teams do have incredible depth but it is asinine to ask a player to come off the bench cold and play at the same level of play as everyone else.You guys all bitch about soccer being boring, yet PKs are about pitting your best players against their best players and seeing if they can score. These are direct shots on goal. That's action. Quit your bitching. If we had won 3-2 90% of you wouldn't be saying shit about the system. These rules have been in place forever. Deal with them.

+1 it sucks, but whining about the rules and coming up with conspiracy theories as to why we lost just makes our fan base look like pathetic, pissy sore losers.

I think a few of you are just complacent. Fact is, at least one of those yellow cards was a phantom card and the other should have just been a foul. It was extremely impactful on the outcome of the game and if you dont think the NCAA has it out for us yet than you are not only insane but ignorant as well. (remember the seeding the last few years and the moving the game to Northwestern?!). Now i'm not saying the game was rigged this year, i'm just saying it's not like we were someone they wanted to win, so i'll let you decide there.Anyone in their right mind would be able to tell you that Virginia got away with murder that game and the refs just let it slip repeatedly! The Zips didn't get it away with half that! Funny thing is, we STILL could/should have won. It speaks volumes for our guys out there who were making play after play out there all while being handicapped.Also, feel free to bitch all you want about what i'm posting but let's just see who actually was at the game and let them argue about what went on. Trying to say you saw what happened through the bias lens of the TV camera isn't close to seeing it 10 feet in front of you on the pitch.

[meatwad]

Also, feel free to bitch all you want about what i'm posting but let's just see who actually was at the game and let them argue about what went on. Trying to say you saw what happened through the bias lens of the TV camera isn't close to seeing it 10 feet in front of you on the pitch.

I was at the game. Fact is, the fouls were 22 by Virginia, 10 for Akron. Yes, the yellow card against Blair was absurd (and the one on Mwila for that matter), but to say that the handing out of yellow cards decided the game is a little extreme.We were better than them. We were the better team. We dominated the second half by probably a 75-25 split. We had chances in OT, etc, etc. We could have won. Diego was as classless as ever, but there was no "conspiracy" against Akron and to think that is downright silly. Heck if anything UNC has a complaint the other way because they had a guy red carded in the biggest game of the season (granted the second yellow was merited, but I'm not so sure on the first). Anyway, bottom line is that I think the refs and the dreaded NCAA treated us as fairly as ever, and that we were the better team, but in soccer that is no guarantee of a victory.

[Spin]

well let's not get too crazy...if soccer was the Barrack Obama of sports there WOULD have been co champions. And then directly following the game the winners would apologize to the losers for beating them. Following that the winners would split up the trophy and redistribute it back to the losers and the winners would be told they are wrong for trying to succeed and be better.

And for each yellow card, he would have both parties over for a beer in the back yard so they could get past their differences.Sorry, couldn't resist.

[zippyrifle32]

Also, feel free to bitch all you want about what i'm posting but let's just see who actually was at the game and let them argue about what went on. Trying to say you saw what happened through the bias lens of the TV camera isn't close to seeing it 10 feet in front of you on the pitch.

yeah, we were able to see the replay in slow motion and from multiple angles, but I'm sure you got that function in your head. UVA stepped up and became more physical. There were calls and no calls both ways. In the games where our opponent is more physical we have had difficulty stepping up to the adversity. Also, UVA was called for twice as many fouls as us. They deserved them too, but to say that our yellow cards are a result of an NCAA conspiracy is ridiculous! I bet you line your hats with foil to keep the satellites from reading your thoughts as well . Bad calls happen in every sport and in every game. It's human error and it happens.

[RootforRoo44]

Also, feel free to bitch all you want about what i'm posting but let's just see who actually was at the game and let them argue about what went on. Trying to say you saw what happened through the bias lens of the TV camera isn't close to seeing it 10 feet in front of you on the pitch.

yeah, we were able to see the replay in slow motion and from multiple angles, but I'm sure you got that function in your head. UVA stepped up and became more physical. There were calls and no calls both ways. In the games where our opponent is more physical we have had difficulty stepping up to the adversity. Also, UVA was called for twice as many fouls as us. They deserved them too, but to say that our yellow cards are a result of an NCAA conspiracy is ridiculous! I bet you line your hats with foil to keep the satellites from reading your thoughts as well . Bad calls happen in every sport and in every game. It's human error and it happens.

Never did i say it was an NCAA conspiracy. Now maybe the refs had a personal vendetta yes, but all i said was the NCAA doesn't want us to win. If you call that a conspiracy, feel free. Was it a conspiracy last year when we got screwed out of home field?You, your rifle buddy, and AZBetch are the only 3 people in all of Zipsnation that thought that the game was fair. Fouls dont say anything, it's all about game changing calls, for example ones in transition. When VA needed a call, they got it...every time.Keep drinking your kool aid and believing that the game was fair, i had every angle as well as seeing it live as there was a jumbotron right next to me that showed the ESPN feed!

[RootforRoo44]

well let's not get too crazy...if soccer was the Barrack Obama of sports there WOULD have been co champions. And then directly following the game the winners would apologize to the losers for beating them. Following that the winners would split up the trophy and redistribute it back to the losers and the winners would be told they are wrong for trying to succeed and be better.

And for each yellow card, he would have both parties over for a beer in the back yard so they could get past their differences.Sorry, couldn't resist.

And he wouldn't drink an American beer...too easy.

[zippyrifle32]

You, your rifle buddy, and AZBetch are the only 3 people in all of Zipsnation that thought that the game was fair. Fouls dont say anything, it's all about game changing calls, for example ones in transition. When VA needed a call, they got it...every time.

don't forget Z.I.P.!fouls don't say anything when it doesn't support your irrational rant, yet, they got every call they needed, which were mostly fouls against us... so fouls do say something? make up your mind, you're getting boring.

[RatherBeAZIP]

I have to say I agree with Root4roo on this one. I attended the game and everyone in attendance regardless of affiliation saw it. Virginia kept receiving "warnings" (fouls) for their hard contact and the Zips were getting yellow cards. It was something to see when an Akron player was checked to the ground and play continued but when minor contact occurred the other way the calls were never reciprocated. It's too bad, I think the crap shoot that is PK's combined with atrocious officiating really cost the best team a victory. One thing I would have liked to find out was if unlimited OT's would have been in effect is if anyone would of scored. The Zips had plenty of opportunities and just missed over and over but there is a reason why Virginia was one of the top (I believe 4th) defensive teams of all time! The Zips are #3 all time.By the way, what is with all the animosity towards fellow Zips fans?

[akronad]

As a retired soccer referee, I thought the game was called fairly. Could some of yellows have been non-yellows and some of the non-yellows been yellows? Absolutely, but what we see from the stands or the TV screen is totally different than what is actually occuring on the field. That being said, I would have preferred to have had the referee from Friday's game as the main man on Sunday. I thought he did a much better job of controlling the players than Sunday's official.I don't think you'll ever see the NCAA go away from PK's. I believe it was the late 80's or early 90's when a championship game was finally decided after 7 OT periods.