Soccer Scholarship Numbers

[Z.I.P.]

I've resisted posting this thread until now, mostly because I know so little about the distribution of scholarship $$ by institutions, and the NCAA's rules. However, I think it is both an interesting and important issue, especially now that Akron is an elite soccer program, competing with universities who consider themselves just as "elite" academically.What has been discussed on the BigSoccer board recently is that the NCAA limit on scholarships for men's soccer is 9.9/year. Now that is a maximum, and many schools have used fewer than the max -- for example, it was reported that Northwestern only uses 4 scholarships for men's soccer, and of course the Ivy League has no athletic scholarships (theoretically at least). That is an institutional decision, based on the priority given to the sport by the athletic department. BUT, if a Big Ten institution gives that low a consideration to the sport, it says a lot about its program and the overall athletic department. The other factor that has been discussed out the ying yang on BS is the amount of academic scholarship $$ provided to soccer players -- and the controversy has been stoked, with the suggestion that Akron and other schools may be gaining an advantage by their ability to provide academic scholarships in place of athletic scholarships. The academic elitists on the board claim that Akron is able to extend academic scholarships to athletes at a higher rate because its overall admission qualification standards are much lower, and therefore academic scholarships are available to students with lower HS grades and test scores -- allowing athletes to acquire a higher proportion of academic schollys than at the elite Ivy League -- or ACC level of admission.I wonder what people here think about this argument. Does it hold any water? What are the NCAA's rules regarding distribution and limits to scholarships? Is it possible for a school to legally "cheat" the limits by providing academic scholarship to top student athletes, thereby having a higher # of athletes on scholarship than their opponents, or than provided under the official limits? As long as a school that the elitists consider beneath their standing continues to outplay their boys on the pitch, there will be charges that they are expanding the rules to leverage their position.Are we cheats?

[ZachTheZip]

We have two academic all-americans on the team. Sarkodie and Zemanski are eligible for significant merit-based scholarship money because of their GPAs.I think it's perfectly legal for a school to award merit-based academic scholarships to athletes. It actively encourages coaches to seek out smart athletes who can earn their scholarships in the classroom so they don't have to use up their athletic scholarships.As for Akron "gaming the system" because of the admission requirements, it's complete BS. Just because somebody is eligible to take classes doesn't mean that they'll be able to pass them. Admissions have nothign to do with how tough the academic courses are. Besides, in order to be eligible for the real big scholarships you need to be accepted into a degree-granting college and they do have higher criteria than the overall university.

[zen]

If an institution is operating within the parameters set both athletically and academically, then any complaints are just sour-grape whine and cheeze. It's cheating if it's cheating. It's not if it's not.Posing something like this as a vague question without having the guts to lodge an genuine and specific accusation only detracts from the good-sportsmanship of those who posit such insinuations.

[g-mann17]

I've resisted posting this thread until now, mostly because I know so little about the distribution of scholarship $$ by institutions, and the NCAA's rules. However, I think it is both an interesting and important issue, especially now that Akron is an elite soccer program, competing with universities who consider themselves just as "elite" academically.What has been discussed on the BigSoccer board recently is that the NCAA limit on scholarships for men's soccer is 9.9/year. Now that is a maximum, and many schools have used fewer than the max -- for example, it was reported that Northwestern only uses 4 scholarships for men's soccer, and of course the Ivy League has no athletic scholarships (theoretically at least). That is an institutional decision, based on the priority given to the sport by the athletic department. BUT, if a Big Ten institution gives that low a consideration to the sport, it says a lot about its program and the overall athletic department. The other factor that has been discussed out the ying yang on BS is the amount of academic scholarship $$ provided to soccer players -- and the controversy has been stoked, with the suggestion that Akron and other schools may be gaining an advantage by their ability to provide academic scholarships in place of athletic scholarships. The academic elitists on the board claim that Akron is able to extend academic scholarships to athletes at a higher rate because its overall admission qualification standards are much lower, and therefore academic scholarships are available to students with lower HS grades and test scores -- allowing athletes to acquire a higher proportion of academic schollys than at the elite Ivy League -- or ACC level of admission.I wonder what people here think about this argument. Does it hold any water? What are the NCAA's rules regarding distribution and limits to scholarships? Is it possible for a school to legally "cheat" the limits by providing academic scholarship to top student athletes, thereby having a higher # of athletes on scholarship than their opponents, or than provided under the official limits? As long as a school that the elitists consider beneath their standing continues to outplay their boys on the pitch, there will be charges that they are expanding the rules to leverage their position.Are we cheats?

Yeah we are definitely the U of soccer. Miami constantly got questioned on ethics, academics, and character of their student athletes by the "haves" that they kept beating. I used to detest the Canes, but I watched the ESPN 30 on 30 special about them and I can't help but see the similarities.Every time anyone or anything rises up, the people that are already on top of the heap try to find ways to pull the rug out from under them. The truth is the University of Akron values success, an academic scholarship is awarded to top students and not based on admission standards. They give the soccer program as much flexibility as possible, but they award that same flexibility to the other programs at the school. To the ACC whiners I say "we caught you, almost beat you with 80% underclassmen, and are going to beat you from now on"

[skip-zip]

Duke remains a basketball powerhouse despite their high academic requirements....right?Sure, it may be an advantage for us. But, I'm sure we could state many, many disadvantages from being a school like Akron, and competing athletically against the big-name conferences.

[Z.I.P.]

If an institution is operating within the parameters set both athletically and academically, then any complaints are just sour-grape whine and cheeze. It's cheating if it's cheating. It's not if it's not.Posing something like this as a vague question without having the guts to lodge an genuine and specific accusation only detracts from the good-sportsmanship of those who posit such insinuations.

I hope that shot wasn't aimed at me. I'm just delivering the product of ACC & Big Ten whinemaking arts. Don't get overintoxicated, either on the whine, or on our own artistry at futbol. Championships will taste so much better when served with a healthy serving of humility.

[MDZip]

I saw the comments on BigSoccer as well. Really ticked me off so I stopped reading it. Some of it boiled down to "even though the Zips have a good GPA, how hard are their classes?". I got my Master's degree from Johns Hopkins (very much a "name" school) and I'll tell you I learned far more and my classes were much tougher at Akron. Not trying to denigrate Hopkins because it is a fine school, but it just shows how petty and ignorant some posters are. For those of you still in school don't let anyone denigrate Akron. I always stand up for them - the first job I ever had I worked right along side graduates of more "prestigious" schools, Dartmouth, Duke, Florida, Oregon, etc and what I learned and knew put me on an equal footing with any of them (and I didn't have a monster student loan to pay off either). Was their college "experience" better than mine? Quite possibly, which is why I donate to continue to improve the campus and the experience fior current students. I'm proud of what the University of Akron has become (play patriotic music here ).

[ZachTheZip]

For some universities, the most difficult part of getting your degree is being accepted into the university in the first place.

[Zip_ME87]

I saw the comments on BigSoccer as well. Really ticked me off so I stopped reading it. Some of it boiled down to "even though the Zips have a good GPA, how hard are their classes?". I got my Master's degree from Johns Hopkins (very much a "name" school) and I'll tell you I learned far more and my classes were much tougher at Akron. Not trying to denigrate Hopkins because it is a fine school, but it just shows how petty and ignorant some posters are. For those of you still in school don't let anyone denigrate Akron. I always stand up for them - the first job I ever had I worked right along side graduates of more "prestigious" schools, Dartmouth, Duke, Florida, Oregon, etc and what I learned and knew put me on an equal footing with any of them (and I didn't have a monster student loan to pay off either). Was their college "experience" better than mine? Quite possibly, which is why I donate to continue to improve the campus and the experience fior current students. I'm proud of what the University of Akron has become (play patriotic music here ).

Nicely stated MDZip. Anyone who doubts Akron's academics should visit the lobby of Auburn Science Center and look at the numerous awards won by the engineering students as one example.

[cms133@uakron.edu]

I saw the comments on BigSoccer as well. Really ticked me off so I stopped reading it. Some of it boiled down to "even though the Zips have a good GPA, how hard are their classes?". I got my Master's degree from Johns Hopkins (very much a "name" school) and I'll tell you I learned far more and my classes were much tougher at Akron. Not trying to denigrate Hopkins because it is a fine school, but it just shows how petty and ignorant some posters are. For those of you still in school don't let anyone denigrate Akron. I always stand up for them - the first job I ever had I worked right along side graduates of more "prestigious" schools, Dartmouth, Duke, Florida, Oregon, etc and what I learned and knew put me on an equal footing with any of them (and I didn't have a monster student loan to pay off either). Was their college "experience" better than mine? Quite possibly, which is why I donate to continue to improve the campus and the experience fior current students. I'm proud of what the University of Akron has become (play patriotic music here ).

Coming from a current student, thank you. Thanks to all the donors. I don't know what UA was like before I got here, I only know what you all have said on ZN. I can only tell you what I know and what I know is campus, now, is an awesome place to be. I'm a sophomore this year so I feel like I arrived at UA at the perfect time. I got to see the last game at the rubber-bowl, watch the Info being built and finally attend games, and make use of all the new buildings and facilities, and appreciate the atmosphere and scenery that compose Akron's campus today. A TON was completed when I started attending the University, but even with so much completed, there is more construction and growth everywhere on campus, every day, in part because of you Alumni. It's really exciting for me and I love being a part of that.