So are we going to win any games this year?

[akronzips71]

Maybe I should make it a poll.

[ZachTheZip]

I don't know. That Gardner Webb team looks pretty tough.

[GP1]

Yes. We are going to win 4-6 of them.

[dreal1scout]

Maybe I should make it a poll.

Maybe you should pull your head out..! (just kidding, hehe)

Read any of my posts and make that your poll. 2010

On another pole note, I know several lovely Cant cheerleader lasses moonlighting as Pole-dancers if anybody has an upcoming birthday/bachelor party.

[akronzips71]

Maybe I should make it a poll.

Maybe you should pull your head out..! (just kidding, hehe)

Read any of my posts and make that your poll. 2010

On another pole note, I know several lovely Cant cheerleader lasses moonlighting as Pole-dancers if anybody has an upcoming birthday/bachelor party.

After last year, I just don't have faith!

Now I was there in the time of Danny Ruff and Jack Beidelman. And the Grantland Rice Bowl and some guy named Bradshaw.

Glory is possible, but fleeting.

[Z.I.P.]

Maybe I should make it a poll.

Maybe you should pull your head out..! (just kidding, hehe)

Read any of my posts and make that your poll. 2010

On another pole note, I know several lovely Cant cheerleader lasses moonlighting as Pole-dancers if anybody has an upcoming birthday/bachelor party.

After last year, I just don't have faith!

Now I was there in the time of Danny Ruff and Jack Beidelman. And the Grantland Rice Bowl and some guy named Bradshaw.

Glory is possible, but fleeting.

akzips71, You bring up a fascinating truism. Forty-plus-years have passed since those days, and Akron would like to believe it has moved up to "Big-Time College Football", but the truth is, we are at basically the same relative spot in the pecking order that we were in during the College Division, and later Division I-AA days. How much energy and $$$ have we spent to keep running in place on this rat trap? And what effect could that $$$ have had, if it had been spent to better the academic standing of the university?

[skip-zip]

Maybe I should make it a poll.

Maybe you should pull your head out..! (just kidding, hehe)

Read any of my posts and make that your poll. 2010

On another pole note, I know several lovely Cant cheerleader lasses moonlighting as Pole-dancers if anybody has an upcoming birthday/bachelor party.

After last year, I just don't have faith!

Now I was there in the time of Danny Ruff and Jack Beidelman. And the Grantland Rice Bowl and some guy named Bradshaw.

Glory is possible, but fleeting.

akzips71, You bring up a fascinating truism. Forty-plus-years have passed since those days, and Akron would like to believe it has moved up to "Big-Time College Football", but the truth is, we are at basically the same relative spot in the pecking order that we were in during the College Division, and later Division I-AA days. How much energy and $$$ have we spent to keep running in place on this rat trap? And what effect could that $$$ have had, if it had been spent to better the academic standing of the university?

This is an interesting comment that comes up from time to time. I am also one of thsoe older people on this board that goes way back before our 1-A days.

My response? I absolutely believe that going 1-A was the right move. It was a no-brainer move. We are among the largest universities in the country. The growth of our school was paralleling our growth through the football divisions. It just made sense. And when the opportunity presented itself, we saw an opportunity to move again. And although we haven't had a tremendous amount of success by any means, we have clearly proved that we are one of the best 120 football programs in the county, and have been competitive in our own conference, which contains schools that have been 1-A programs for a heck of a lot longer than us. In my opinion, I think it's crazy to believe that being more successful in a lower division is a better option.

[g-mann17]

akzips71, You bring up a fascinating truism. Forty-plus-years have passed since those days, and Akron would like to believe it has moved up to "Big-Time College Football", but the truth is, we are at basically the same relative spot in the pecking order that we were in during the College Division, and later Division I-AA days. How much energy and $$$ have we spent to keep running in place on this rat trap? And what effect could that $$$ have had, if it had been spent to better the academic standing of the university?

You assume that money would have been readily available to "improve academics". How much did us having a D-1 program play in Proenza wanting to come here? How much does D-1 mean to donors? People talk about the "glory days" like they were glorious. They weren't, we had heavy win seasons and averaged 14,000 fans. Our losing seasons average over 15. How much has being 1-AA helped YSU academics? How much has not spending $$$ on football helped Cleveland States academics.

Understand that Academics are tied to history, that's it, nothing more, nothing less. Pitt is an "academic school" because of the polio vaccine. Miami(OH) matters because it's old and that is pretty much it. We could have spent our entire athletic budget for the last 30 years (I believe the latest number was 27.4 million) and you know what? It would not even equal 2 years of operating budget. It would barely pass up what we have spent on academics over the last 14 years. And even spending 822 million (which it would be less if we factored in the actual athletic budget over the last 30 years) you know what we would be? Akron University that wasn't even a state university until 1967. And if we only did the football budget (something around 9-10 million) the investment would be half that. But again you are assuming that money would be there (and no football, or lower tier football, and that money isn't there, it doesn't exist at all).

We have received far more alumni investment, far more attention from being a mediocre D-1 football program then we ever did being 1-AA or D-II. The move to D-1 was made based off of what the growing student body wanted and a look at the academic investments that D-1 programs receive. Maybe the lackluster record is disheartening, but it took us 20 years just to get an on campus practice field. I know you old timers don't have much of it left, but give it some time.

[Wally B]

Maybe I should make it a poll.

Maybe you should pull your head out..! (just kidding, hehe)

Read any of my posts and make that your poll. 2010

On another pole note, I know several lovely Cant cheerleader lasses moonlighting as Pole-dancers if anybody has an upcoming birthday/bachelor party.

After last year, I just don't have faith!

Now I was there in the time of Danny Ruff and Jack Beidelman. And the Grantland Rice Bowl and some guy named Bradshaw.

Glory is possible, but fleeting.

akzips71, You bring up a fascinating truism. Forty-plus-years have passed since those days, and Akron would like to believe it has moved up to "Big-Time College Football", but the truth is, we are at basically the same relative spot in the pecking order that we were in during the College Division, and later Division I-AA days. How much energy and $$$ have we spent to keep running in place on this rat trap? And what effect could that $$$ have had, if it had been spent to better the academic standing of the university?

Are you suggesting that the University hasn't grown in the last 40 years, academically or otherwise?? Are you suggesting that the football program continually reaped the benefits of major cash donations and constant facility upgrades since we moved up in 86' ? God i didn't know how good we actually had it during my tenure in the early 90's.......... oh wait that's right.....

[Z.I.P.]

akzips71, You bring up a fascinating truism. Forty-plus-years have passed since those days, and Akron would like to believe it has moved up to "Big-Time College Football", but the truth is, we are at basically the same relative spot in the pecking order that we were in during the College Division, and later Division I-AA days. How much energy and $$$ have we spent to keep running in place on this rat trap? And what effect could that $$$ have had, if it had been spent to better the academic standing of the university?

You assume that money would have been readily available to "improve academics". How much did us having a D-1 program play in Proenza wanting to come here? How much does D-1 mean to donors? People talk about the "glory days" like they were glorious. They weren't, we had heavy win seasons and averaged 14,000 fans. Our losing seasons average over 15. How much has being 1-AA helped YSU academics? How much has not spending $$$ on football helped Cleveland States academics.

Understand that Academics are tied to history, that's it, nothing more, nothing less. Pitt is an "academic school" because of the polio vaccine. Miami(OH) matters because it's old and that is pretty much it. We could have spent our entire athletic budget for the last 30 years (I believe the latest number was 27.4 million) and you know what? It would not even equal 2 years of operating budget. It would barely pass up what we have spent on academics over the last 14 years. And even spending 822 million (which it would be less if we factored in the actual athletic budget over the last 30 years) you know what we would be? Akron University that wasn't even a state university until 1967. And if we only did the football budget (something around 9-10 million) the investment would be half that. But again you are assuming that money would be there (and no football, or lower tier football, and that money isn't there, it doesn't exist at all).

We have received far more alumni investment, far more attention from being a mediocre D-1 football program then we ever did being 1-AA or D-II. The move to D-1 was made based off of what the growing student body wanted and a look at the academic investments that D-1 programs receive. Maybe the lackluster record is disheartening, but it took us 20 years just to get an on campus practice field. I know you old timers don't have much of it left, but give it some time.

So you see, my comment did -- as I intended -- foster discussion. The point was forced on me by the lingering, and for now hopefully, bottoming status of Akron football. This pointed discussion is made at every university in America. I imagine everyone agrees that college athletics receives far more attention than it deserves in comparison to the academic mission of higher education. It is not a simple phenomenon to understand or resolve, and so simplistic solutions sometimes proposed from purely anti-athletics perspectives are not just unrealistic, but possibly counterproductive. As g-mann17 points out, in this nation (and particularly with public universities) failure to compete in intercollegiate athletics can have a detrimental effect on alumni and community support. But, administrators still must balance competing interests, many of whom are rightfully envious of the $$ that go to programs whose purpose is stroking the egos of wealthy alums and not-so-rational sports fanatics. Irrationality as a given, on balance, I'd rather be in our position than YSU's or CSU's, but we shouldn't be limiting our range of options to "competing" with minor league universities. This discussion ain't going away -- and the more football struggles, the more it will be repeated here and elsewhere in the community. Maybe a bigger concern is, if dreal1scout gets his Akron pole dancing team, how are we going to keep the Monster Hands to themselves?

[GP1]

How much energy and $$$ have we spent to keep running in place on this rat trap? And what effect could that $$$ have had, if it had been spent to better the academic standing of the university?

Interesting questions and worthy of discussion.

The answer is I don't know, but however much money we have spent has not been enough to make us good at football. We have had and still continue to have some of the lowest paid football coaches in the MAC. Our academic support for football has not been enough to keep at risk student athletes in school. The new football stadium was going to happen sooner or later so I don't worry about that money. We spend money on building buildings and not building a program.

I don't think question one ties with questions two. Or maybe I should say there is no evidence spending on sports has resulted in underachieving academics. It makes me happy to say that UofA is a better school today, in every way, than it was when I was in school 19 years ago. The professors are better. The facilities are better. The campus is a place for learning in lieu of a bunch of buildings near downtown Akron. The law school can boast about the highest rate of bar passing graduates in Ohio. The business school is excellent and has programs like the direct marketing school. The engineering school is top notch and at the top of that rests the polymer science school which is a world leader. The Ray C. Bliss Institute is nationally known. My brother is a doctor and says the best nurses around are UofA graduates and the BS nurses make great administrators.

The Athletic Department is not harming UofA. Since it functions in the red every year though, it does harm the taxpayers of Ohio. I don't see how throwing more money at it will change the influence the NCAA has in college sports and the negative impact it has on non-BCS schools.

Here are two scenarios that I think about.

Scenario 1: UofA stays in D-1A football and because of the lack of support by the ncaa for nonbcs schools, we continue to function in the lower 20% of college football for the next 20 years. The money will appear to be wasted.

Scenario 2: UofA moves either to I-AA and becomes a national power with fans stuffing the Big Dialer for a winning football game and playoff games to watch UofA compete for a national championship. Which is better...One bowl game every few years, or two-three home playoff games in a national championship tournament? If this happens, the money is well spent.

It's all about what outcomes take place.

[g-mann17]

How much energy and $$$ have we spent to keep running in place on this rat trap? And what effect could that $$$ have had, if it had been spent to better the academic standing of the university?

Interesting questions and worthy of discussion.

The answer is I don't know, but however much money we have spent has not been enough to make us good at football. We have had and still continue to have some of the lowest paid football coaches in the MAC. Our academic support for football has not been enough to keep at risk student athletes in school. The new football stadium was going to happen sooner or later so I don't worry about that money. We spend money on building buildings and not building a program.

I don't think question one ties with questions two. Or maybe I should say there is no evidence spending on sports has resulted in underachieving academics. It makes me happy to say that UofA is a better school today, in every way, than it was when I was in school 19 years ago. The professors are better. The facilities are better. The campus is a place for learning in lieu of a bunch of buildings near downtown Akron. The law school can boast about the highest rate of bar passing graduates in Ohio. The business school is excellent and has programs like the direct marketing school. The engineering school is top notch and at the top of that rests the polymer science school which is a world leader. The Ray C. Bliss Institute is nationally known. My brother is a doctor and says the best nurses around are UofA graduates and the BS nurses make great administrators.

The Athletic Department is not harming UofA. Since it functions in the red every year though, it does harm the taxpayers of Ohio. I don't see how throwing more money at it will change the influence the NCAA has in college sports and the negative impact it has on non-BCS schools.

Here are two scenarios that I think about.

Scenario 1: UofA stays in D-1A football and because of the lack of support by the ncaa for nonbcs schools, we continue to function in the lower 20% of college football for the next 20 years. The money will appear to be wasted.

Scenario 2: UofA moves either to I-AA and becomes a national power with fans stuffing the Big Dialer for a winning football game and playoff games to watch UofA compete for a national championship. Which is better...One bowl game every few years, or two-three home playoff games in a national championship tournament? If this happens, the money is well spent.

It's all about what outcomes take place.

First, even while "operating in the red" that money doesn't come from the tax payer, it comes from the student. Second, you think there is a lack of support now? Even when we made the playoffs in 1-AA, we only averaged what we are averaging now. Your perpetual "Akron belongs in 1-aa" nonsense is getting pretty old. I know you think more than half of the FBS should be 1-AA, but the whole idea is for lack of better word, dumb.

You seem to think that OSU, Florida, Texas et. al are some how "semi-pro" teams. There are 120 FBS school, with 85 scholarship athletes a piece, and on average 100 athletes a school. There are a whopping 224 players drafted by the NFL. Do some math.

12000 FBS players only 2 percent make it to the NFL, that is hardly "semi-pro". On top of that 110 schools operate "in the red" every year.

[Bsba77]

But for The University of Akron's major athletic status, few outside of Summit County would know the school existed. If we want to be perceived as a major university, we need to be one.

[GP1]

Second, you think there is a lack of support now? Even when we made the playoffs in 1-AA, we only averaged what we are averaging now. Your perpetual "Akron belongs in 1-aa" nonsense is getting pretty old. I know you think more than half of the FBS should be 1-AA, but the whole idea is for lack of better word, dumb.

You seem to think that OSU, Florida, Texas et. al are some how "semi-pro" teams.

12000 FBS players only 2 percent make it to the NFL, that is hardly "semi-pro". On top of that 110 schools operate "in the red" every year.

15,000 Zip fans traveled to Detroit to watch the Zips play in a bowl game a few years ago. Yes, I believe they would get great crowds for a playoff game. Can you tell me what the crowd sizes were when we made the playoffs in I-AA? How many people were lining up to cheer the Zips on in the palace we called the Rubber Bowl?

To address your second point. I really don't care about your opinions. You're really not very smart and your posts tend to drag on longer than anyone as slow minded and inarticulate as you should. When someone proves you wrong, you go on even more and make yourself look even more stupid. Most of the time I skip over your posts unless they are a reply to mine as I hate to see my great words addressed by you.

I never said OSU, Florida, Texas and the rest are semi pro teams, but they are. Many semi pro teams have guys playing for nothing and some getting paid. There are guys at those schools getting paid under the table every week.

To address your last moronic point, I could care less what happens to the other schools.

Have a nice evening.

[g-mann17]

15,000 Zip fans traveled to Detroit to watch the Zips play in a bowl game a few years ago. Yes, I believe they would get great crowds for a playoff game. Can you tell me what the crowd sizes were when we made the playoffs in I-AA? How many people were lining up to cheer the Zips on in the palace we called the Rubber Bowl?

To address your second point. I really don't care about your opinions. You're really not very smart and your posts tend to drag on longer than anyone as slow minded and inarticulate as you should. When someone proves you wrong, you go on even more and make yourself look even more stupid. Most of the time I skip over your posts unless they are a reply to mine as I hate to see my great words addressed by you.

I never said OSU, Florida, Texas and the rest are semi pro teams, but they are. Many semi pro teams have guys playing for nothing and some getting paid. There are guys at those schools getting paid under the table every week.

To address your last moronic point, I could care less what happens to the other schools.

Have a nice evening.

Ladies and gentlemen, the Great GP1. Contradiction after contradiction.

To answer your first question. I did, less then what shows up when we have a losing season. The years we had winning seasons 34,000 showed up for the Acme Zip game, and then what? Can anyone out there tell me, I'm slow, slow, slow minded. That's right less then what we have been averaging since going D-1. And why is that Grand Pa 1?

Because people don't give a about 1-AA.

It's interesting that all you ever offer is "opinion" and then blast facts for "being dumb ole facts by golly".

But you have fun in your happy elderly world where everything was "great in the good ole days when I played football, I would have been a JV Superstar if we hadn't have tried to move up and play big boy football."

[GP1]

To answer your first question. I did, less then what shows up when we have a losing season. The years we had winning seasons 34,000 showed up for the Acme Zip game, and then what? Can anyone out there tell me, I'm slow, slow, slow minded. That's right less then what we have been averaging since going D-1. And why is that Grand Pa 1?

It was because every grocery bag you received at Acme weeks leading up to Acme-Zip had coupons on them that were free tickets to the game. The University spent decades training an entire region that purchasing tickets to a Zips games was not necessary and should be expected.

Any other questions?

One last thing. They pack the stands at App State and used to pack them in at YSU when they were good and Marshall (when they were I-AA). A good team draws a crowd. I believe the people of Akron will turn out for a national championship contender. The soccer team packed their stadium last year for a sport as exciting as watching paint dry. People will turn out for a I-AA winner.

[Buckzip]

We will always win the next game.

After each game it will be the same as it is every year. If we win our next game we can still have a record of blank.

[g-mann17]

It was because every grocery bag you received at Acme weeks leading up to Acme-Zip had coupons on them that were free tickets to the game. The University spent decades training an entire region that purchasing tickets to a Zips games was not necessary and should be expected.

Any other questions?

One last thing. They pack the stands at App State and used to pack them in at YSU when they were good and Marshall (when they were I-AA). A good team draws a crowd. I believe the people of Akron will turn out for a national championship contender. The soccer team packed their stadium last year for a sport as exciting as watching paint dry. People will turn out for a I-AA winner.

They are both schools of 14000 with nothing going on around them for miles (closest to Youngstown is Akron some 50 miles away). YSU was "selling out" for national champion teams with a whopping 17,000. (They added 3000 seats in 97 after their "run"). Marshall (50 Miles from Charleston) played to packed crowds in an 18000 seat stadium, until they moved to D-1 and built the 38,000 stadium they have now.

The University of Akron is twice the size of both schools. We are a D-1 school, they had to give a way free tickets to get people to go see D-2 and 1-AA football. Moral of the story, even if you are a good 1-AA school no one really cares.

[Zipsrifle]

Wow, well, I'm staying out of that one. I like to think about how participating in athletics helps the student athletes and their fellow students. In many cases being able to participate is a motivating factor for many athletes in their academic studies. It provides some excitement for the other students on campus (AK Rowdies in particular) and something for the students on campus to get behind.

Having athletic programs at the university will attract students to your campus. In my case, there were only 2 options for me in the State of Ohio and my disdain for OSU runs deep so the decision was easy. In fact, would argue that Rifle makes money for the University. Because of the scarcity of Collegiate shooting programs, competitive shooters seek out schools and we pay our way. Many student athletes are involved in other organizations. During my time we had many Engineers on the Rifle team and some of them were also involved in the successful SAE teams. It also helps build your alumni base. I know many of my former team members who are avid zips fans. At least 3 have personalized Zips license plates and make a point to attend a few sporting events every year.

The impact to the university is indeed difficult to quantify, but it is hard to argue with how popular football is in this country. I wouldn't be typing right now if UofA didn't have a football program. Even though we aren't very good in football, and on paper we lose money, it generates quite a bit of buzz for UofA and pumps a good chunk of money into the University. Overall, I think it is an advantage to UofA even if it is hard to justify on a balance sheet.

[GP1]

It was because every grocery bag you received at Acme weeks leading up to Acme-Zip had coupons on them that were free tickets to the game. The University spent decades training an entire region that purchasing tickets to a Zips games was not necessary and should be expected.

Any other questions?

One last thing. They pack the stands at App State and used to pack them in at YSU when they were good and Marshall (when they were I-AA). A good team draws a crowd. I believe the people of Akron will turn out for a national championship contender. The soccer team packed their stadium last year for a sport as exciting as watching paint dry. People will turn out for a I-AA winner.

They are both schools of 14000 with nothing going on around them for miles (closest to Youngstown is Akron some 50 miles away). YSU was "selling out" for national champion teams with a whopping 17,000. (They added 3000 seats in 97 after their "run"). Marshall (50 Miles from Charleston) played to packed crowds in an 18000 seat stadium, until they moved to D-1 and built the 38,000 stadium they have now.

The University of Akron is twice the size of both schools. We are a D-1 school, they had to give a way free tickets to get people to go see D-2 and 1-AA football. Moral of the story, even if you are a good 1-AA school no one really cares.

Akron has a much larger opportunity to draw fans from a 50 mile radius. Not everyone on the Akron side at the MCB was a UofA grad. There had to be some interest. Winning draws people.

Nobody lives in Boone, NC. Explain the large crowds. If you sell out your stadium, how many more tickets could you have sold is the questions. We already have a stadium that only gets filled once a year at best. I don't think it is a stretch to believe raising the attendance from at 17,000 sales to 24,000 would take much more than a winning team with a shot at winning a national title. Want to use the stadium more? Make the I-AA playoffs and you can have a couple of playoff games.

[johnnyzip84]

While it's been tossed around ZNO for what seems like forever, the D-1/D-1AA debate remains a good one IMO.

My first thought deals with GP1's initial question on how many fans showed up at the for UA's 1-AA playoff game. The only 1-AA playoff game in which the Zips participated was in 1985 AT Kingston, RI to face the Rhode Island Rams (Link). Therefore we have no historical data on 1-AA HOME attendance.

Link

Another point I'd like to make is that I think it's unwise to assume that just because we'd drop to FCS (1-AA) doesn't mean we'd compete for national championships or consistently make the playoffs for that matter. The way I look at it, winning an FCS title is probably more difficult than winning a MAC title. Would our season records be consistently better? Sure. Would that mean increased attendance? I'm not so sure, in fact I rather doubt it.

[MaxZIP]

Top FCS teams have larger budgets than many MAC teams especially when considering that the burden is spread over far fewer students. Akron would be one of if not the largest schoosl in the FCS. Spreading Youngstown's budget over 14,000 students vs. Akron's 26,000 would be nice but you can't tell us that y-town would not have already made the jump if they experienced the same growth as Akron. Delaware, UMass, and some other FCS programs are exceptions to the rule. They choose to remain FCS but continue to spend money like they are borderline BCS. There is definitely a class tier structure in FCS football as there is in FBS. Top teams spend others under the table and have had great success.

Assuming a savings by dropping is not sound logic. Hell, y-town tickets are $5 for all three home games in September. I would be willing to bet that Akron pulls in as much money from suite and season ticket sales as y-town pulls in for all ticket revenue. Also, GP1 tends to point out how dire the situation is with the Zip’s football deficit. Could we assume that his views on dropping are based on the financial performance prior to 2009? If this is the worst of FBS football then the only way to go is up. We had a record year last year and are working to leverage the stadium and build a program. It is a gamble but we are knee deep in it now. Averaging even 15,000 at $15-$25 plus premium seating revenue is a whole hell of a lot better than 15,ooo at $5 or even full priced season ticket that go for approximately 33% less than at Akron. FCS teams get less for cash games and would miss what little BCS and media revenue we have currently.

[Dr Z]

So are we going to win any games this year?

ZN predictions from May 2010 Expectations Poll

ZN predictions from June Predict our record

When I read my prediction from May 13, I haven't seen/heard anything that would change my mind on August 12th. I still agree with me.

Ken+ & GW are gimmies, the team should be able to win two more home games, and one more road game giving them 5.

I'm basing all of this on the progress of PN7 (seeing him in all of 7 games last year). If Alex Allen stays healthy throughout the year, give us another win somewhere, he is that good, but hasn't proven to be reliable (probably my favorite player on the team). If we turn our defense around, pressure the QB, stop the run and get the ball back to the offense, maybe one more, that's very optimistic, but it's May I'm allowed to be. If our special teams play like last year, take a win away, but I'm expecting iCoach to improve this area.

[Buckzip]

Bottom line. If this team start winning consistently people will show up.

Not saying we would sell out the Info, but I ccould see over 20,000 per game easily.

Win and they will come.

[ksu sucks]

Bottom line. If this team start winning consistently people will show up.

Not saying we would sell out the Info, but I ccould see over 20,000 per game easily.

Win and they will come.

Bingo. I feel like making that my signature. I'm sick of saying it.