Stadium Concept

[powerofx]

For my first post, I thought I'd start with a long one so bear with me. By way of background, I was born and raised in Akron and remember going to the JAR with my grandpa to watch Joe Jakubic (sp?) light it up and sitting at the windy Rubber Bowl for the ACME Zip game. Both my parents and many other family members attended UA. When I went to college I decided against UA because it still had the urban commuter school feel and that wasn't for me. With all of the changes to the campus and the direction of the university, that may not have been my decision if I had to make it again today. The one thing that had been missing from the university was the passion and connection to the school that comes with successful athletic programs. This may be changing and the university needs keep the momentum going.My professional career path has allowed me to become knowledgeable in sports and event marketing, municipal marketing, naming rights deals, and the like. It has long been known that UA would have to do something about the Rubber Bowl, but the question was when to take action. It always amazed me that 10,000 would show up for the local Hoban vs. St. V high school rivalry game at the bowl or 30,000 would come to a McKinley vs. Massillon playoff game only to find 4,500 at the Bowl for a UA game. What would have to come first - a winning team to bring fans or large crowds that would create a real college atmosphere and allow the school to attract good local talent to become a winning program? The combination of local rabid football fans and so many graduates staying in the area would have to yield success, but when would the sleeping giant wake?That time may be now and I wanted to post a concept regarding a stadium and marketing plan to get the die hard fan's perspective. This is just my opinion as I'm not familiar with the current UA stadium talk but here goes...The stadium should be a dome and should be a joint venture between the University, Summit CVB and the City. The location would be at the north side of campus downtown at the intersection formed by Broadway, Mill, and Market. The reason for the dome is it can be used as convention space. As the Akron airport expands and the city of Cleveland continues to go nowhere with their convention plans, the iron is hot. The location is perfect to build a connection between the stadium and the current Knight Center. The connection to the Knight Center, the airport expansion and Akron’s access to 76, 77, and 80 would make a strong case for conventions and exhibitions that would help offset the cost. Also, since Cleveland built Browns stadium instead of a dome there is a void in our area for a large indoor facility for concerts and the like.I envision a 30 – 35k seat dome with a horseshoe shaped seating bowl. The “open†end would house one of a few concepts – a hotel, student housing, retail. The model I’m looking at on a small scale is the Cintas Center at Xavier University. They have a 10k seat basketball arena with the “open†end containing a student dining facility, administrative offices and a conference center. You take the same basic concept and expand it. Florida Atlantic University is finalizing the last stages of a similar concept that they are calling the Innovation Village. They are combining a domed stadium with student housing and administration offices for their medical program. The price tag in Florida is about 100million. This is obviously quite a bit more expensive than the 20k seat bowl design that I’ve seen for UA, but with the better facility you can get a premium for naming rights, create revenue from the additional indoor events, and gain funding more easily for the hotel/retail/housing development than you would for a stadium alone. Now for the marketing. The UA marketing team has come a long way with their Team Akron program. I say take it further. Ohio State will always be number 1. That is fine, but their are so many football fans in this area with a deep passion for northeast Ohio that number 2 is not a bad place to be. Fresno State has a big green V on their helmets that stands for Valley. They market the team not only to the people of Fresno but to the whole Valley region. They reach out to the community, recruit the kids from the area, and the community responds with huge attendance figures. We do the same thing by reaching into Canton and Cleveland and making the team not just the Akron Zips, but the Northeast Ohio Zips. Now that we have had some success on the field JD and the boys can bring some local talent that may have gone elsewhere. The local talent will feed into the local team atmosphere. You invest in the program through the facilities and you can attract talent. The talent breeds success on the field, attention to the program, and new fans. New fans bring revenue to the program and the cycle repeats. The future is bright here. What do you guys think?

[AK-Zips]

some of what you say is good. some of what you say is not so good. all i can say is that from what i hear, so of the good has alread ybeen discussed and is in the works. that's about all that i can say, but you are on the right track, i'm just not sure you're on the right train.

[GP1]

The University should build the stadium without help from the City or the Convention Board. If you build it with them, they have the right to tell you what to do with it. I love the idea of a dome though. With a dome, truely fair weather fans have no excuse not to come to games. The dome should be next to the fieldhouse. Ther ewill never be a dome though because it will increase the cost of the stadium too much.If the Univeristy wants to rent the dome to any convention coming into Akron, that would be fine because the convention would have to pay rent to the school and it could be a good source of money.Welcome aboard ZipsNation.

[GJGood]

It all makes financial sense. I just don't like the idea of indoor football in Ohio at any level.

[zip37]

I'M NOT IN FAVOR OF 2 OTHER BUREAUCRATIC BUMBLING ENTITIES INVOLVED IN A STADIUM FOR THE U OF A, THE STATE OF OHIO HAS PLENTY WITH THE EPA AND OTHERBUMBLERS INVOLVED.WITH BALL AMMUNITION LOCK AND LOAD.

[UA Fan]

It all makes financial sense. I just don't like the idea of indoor football in Ohio at any level.

Make it a poor-man's retractable dome...it doesn't have to be as fancy and expensive as Toronto's. The cost of some tracks and a motor would be offset by increased attendance and renting it out for other events. It doesn't even have to be kept toasty warm when closed, just keep out the snow. wind and (optionally) rain. I don't care if it's a joint venture with the city as long as it's on or very near campus and we get first dibs for football and University Events scheduling.I don't really get the advantage of glomming on a dorm at one end...you basically save the cost of one shared wall. You can't stuff a bunch of dormrooms under the seating area because you need the space for concession stands, restrooms, walkways, maintenance equipment, etc.Thanks for the input, powerofx...don't be a stranger.

[LosAngelesZipFan]

Welcome Powerofx! I am a relative newcomer as well and am also a marketing guy. I enjoyed your post and, if you have read the BB a bit, you might have seen that I really interested in guaging the appetite for Zips supporters for aiming higher. I think you are spot on that a key here is aiming to be NEOhio's university, not just Akron's. I know this is heresy, but I think a really successful Akron football program, one that really was fulfilling its potential, would actually challenge Ohio State's dominance of NEOhio college football. Back in the '80s, UA played OSU in the NIT the same night the Cavs were playing at the old coliseum in Richfield. UA led at various points in the game and when the scores were announced, the Cavs crowd let out a big cheer. The home town team, competing at that level, will get the support of the home town. And make no mistake, Ohio State is a Cowlumbus school and program, one that only benefits Cowlumbus. So I say, aim high and don't settle. We need to be smart and methodical about this, but there is every possibility to get there. The first step is to not build too small a stadium-- and if the current thinking is a 20K stadium, I would be very disappointed. Bad signal to send. We need to capture the imagination of what is possible, not confirm our acceptance of second class citizen status.

[LosAngelesZipFan]

Oh, and though it is a total pain to have a bunch more bureaucrats and politicians involved, I think the new stadium has to be a joint project with Akron and Summit County. Ideally it uses another authority's underwriting capabilities-- students should not get stuck with this cost. To me this really does argue for the covered stadium concept ('domed' has such a negative connotation) that could be used for conventions and other events. Ideally, it would also replace the JAR though I know that makes the design more difficult. If you could figure out a design that could be configure for 30-40K for football (perhaps even adjustable somehow so that it could make smaller crowds not appear lost) but then be "curtained off" to seat 10K for basketball. Not sure if anything like that has been built, but that would be ideal to me.

[zipboy]

Good discussions - my thoughtsI am not in favor of having the city or county involved. The more hands in the pocket, the more trouble there will be down the road.I generally am not in favor of a covered stadium but do see benefits to it. I remember MT and I think LP visiting Northern Iowa to check out their multi purpose dome a few years back. It seems that the decision was not to pursue.If we did a covered stadium, it would have to incorporate basketball. Is that something KD would like? Most basketball domes don't seem to give the intimate feel of a game.The stadium should be around 30K with the ability to expand. Even when you look at attendance for mediocre Big East or Big Ten schools, the draw in the 30-40K range. A 30K stadium with the ability to take it to 40K-45K down the road would give us enough flexibility for the future.One last thing, please put the TV cameras on the visitor side of the field so they face the home side.What is important is getting something done. I want to see a new stadium up by 2009. If it means waiting until say 2012 or 2013 for a larger or covered stadium, to me it is not worth the wait.

[powerofx]

Thanks for all of the comments from my first post. Just to respond to a few items:The reason that I mentioned partnering with the city of Akron, CVB, etc. is just a simple matter of financing. The University may not be able to pull off a large initiative all alone. In addition, by combining the stdium with the concept of dorms, offices, retail, convention space, financing can be made easier because there are certain bonds that can be applied to these areas where a stadium alone will not qualify. It is not just a matter of sharing the cost of "one wall" as mentioned by UA Fan. If I can figure out how to post a picture, I'll post the inside view of the Xavier arena so you can see how it is set up.In the meantime, here is the propoganda video for the Florida Atlantic stadium. Click on the "stadium Fly through" button at the bottom right. If a football program that has been around for 5 years in a city with a local population of transplants with no connection to the University can do it...Akron sure can.FAU Stadium

[LosAngelesZipFan]

I encourage everyone to check out the link he references-- this is exactly the kind of facility that should be under discussion.

[Buckzip]

That would be sweet. However, this is Akron.

[Quickzips]

That would be sweet. However, this is Akron.

And this is exactley the attitude that we need to change around here.

[Buckzip]

That would be sweet. However, this is Akron.

And this is exactley the attitude that we need to change around here.

I mean the city of Akron. Not UA.That stadium has shops, and cutesy type things.

[UA Fan]

Another option is the "deep hole in the ground" approach, like in Ann Arbor. I don't know what it costs to excavate the hole but it certainly would save on building/structure costs. Which is not totally unlike the Rubber Bowl where the visitor side is below ground level along Wash. Blvd. What I wouldn't like about that though is you wouldn't have a highly-visible & (hopefully) aesthetically-pleasing 4-story stadium which would add a lot of character to the campus. Not to mention a nice view of Akron from the press box and top rows of seating.As for a combined basketball arena...I once toured the Alamodome and what they do there for basketball is basically curtain off one end, say at the 40 yard line and then set up the court and some movable seating stands across the width of the field. That way everyone is closer to the court and it's not like watching those NCAA tourney games in the middle of a football field from a mile away. We could do that for 10 years or so while saving money for a new dedicated hoops arena and turn the JAR into a permanent Zips hall of fame / museum / trophy showcase / indoor tailgating area

[Buckzip]

I hate scUM stadium. It is a big hole in the ground. I would like to see a beautiful, unique structure.

[powerofx]

Here is my poor excuse for a diagram of the stadium/site concept

[KeeprOFtheHous]

Wow some of the stuff here blows my mind. lets be realistic WHEN akron build it will not be a BIG house hole in the ground "city" piping it would be to expensive. think more of southern methodist or uconn that is realistic attaching dorms and shops and hotels? maybe one nice sports club bar accecable from the outside during non game days at the most. lets just get the stadium here and worry about how extravagent it is later.

[GP1]

Damn, that's a nice dome. I bet it is cool in the summer and warm in the winter and dry during a rain storm. It would be nice, but I'll take anything as long as it isn't the Rubber Bowl and I can go to a bar before the game.

[powerofx]

Keepr- a forum like this is the place to think large. It most likely won't happen. But if Florida Atlantic is thinking this way why not Akron? A 20k seat stadium was presented as part of the development plan along exchange. The problem is how to pay for it. A 20k seat bowl would not be condusive to additional revenue generating events, naming rights, etc. This is just my opinion and all, but it is an educated opinion. You guys recall this design from about a year and a half ago, right? Compare that to the FAU video.

[ToledoRockets]

Finally you have someone on here being realistic. This is what I have been saying all along. It is good to dream, but you have to realize that you do not have a good fan base and you do not have a winning tradition. Maybe it will happen. But right now, it is only a maybe. Potential basically means that you have not done anything yet.You have one MAC Championship. Great. You can't go from that, and a 10,500 avg attendance, to Big time home opponents and huge stadiums all at once. You guys put together a strong of 10 years where you are consistently good and you may have something to beat your chests about. But you don't so be realistic or you will end up way over your heads financially.

[JP Morgan]

Again, why would we follow Toledo's model? How many years did it take you to get "where you're at?" I think we'll follow our own course..........thanks though

[ToledoRockets]

Not to burst your bubble, but Toledo has been consistently good for decades and has drawn great crowds for decades. The Glass Bowl has been in its current spot since 1936. It started as am 8,000 seat stadium and as the team became more and more successful and the attendance kept rising, it was expanded. Up until 1990 it only sat 18,000 but we sold out every single game. It was then expanded to 26,400 and we consistently average about a sellout per game.It took years of great seasons and MAC Championships and national rankings to build the crowd support to facilitate explansion. We are the first MAC team to EVER host a Big-10 school. As a matter of fact, I believe that Toledo had hosted four Big-10 games before any other MAC school had hosted a single one.You guys had a great year. But it takes more than a nice stadium to bring in the crowds. It takes years of consistent winning and a consistent fan base to start talking about giant stadiums and big home games. You guys bite off more than you can chew and you are stuck with a huge cash cow.You averaged 10,500 per game in a year you won the MAC. If the attendance rules were still in place, you would be in jeopardy of going to I-AA. By comparison, you have to go back to 1965, when the stadium sat only 12,000, to find a year that Toledo averaged under 11,000. Even in 1993 when we were 4-7, we averaged 16,500 and in 1991 we were 5-5-1 and still brought in 19,500 per game.The whole theory of "if you build it they will come" does not work. You need to have someone with some reasoning skills making your plans.

[xu9697]

Finally you have someone on here being realistic.  This is what I have been saying all along.  It is good to dream, but you have to realize that you do not have a good fan base and you do not have a winning tradition.  Maybe it will happen.  But right now, it is only a maybe.  Potential basically means that you have not done anything yet.You have one MAC Championship.  Great.  You can't go from that, and a 10,500 avg attendance, to Big time home opponents and huge stadiums all at once.  You guys put together a strong of 10 years where you are consistently good and you may have something to beat your chests about.  But you don't so be realistic or you will end up way over your heads financially.

You still don't get it. Toleod has a nice stadium...the Rubber Bowl is a dump. I think we can agree on that. Those that do get it, understand that it is about more than the football team and what Akron did last year. Akron (univeristy & city) has the opportunity to do something to help the school, the city and the REGION! If done right, it will not just be about the football team. I have proposed a dome, but it obviously cannot be 60,000 seats or just for the football team It will, potentially, be about a facility that could be used for football, basketball (NCAA 1st/2nd round or even regionals), soccer (pro or the occasional Akron game), hs state championships, etc.Finally, I agree with you about the fan base. But if the proper ON-CAMPUS (or walking distance) stadium is built, this will help the fan base, atmosphere, etc. The right facility will not sustain the fan base, but it will help initially.

[msopher]

Not to burst your bubble, but Toledo has been consistently good for decades and has drawn great crowds for decades. The Glass Bowl has been in its current spot since 1936. It started as am 8,000 seat stadium and as the team became more and more successful and the attendance kept rising, it was expanded. Up until 1990 it only sat 18,000 but we sold out every single game. It was then expanded to 26,400 and we consistently average about a sellout per game.It took years of great seasons and MAC Championships and national rankings to build the crowd support to facilitate explansion. We are the first MAC team to EVER host a Big-10 school. As a matter of fact, I believe that Toledo had hosted four Big-10 games before any other MAC school had hosted a single one.You guys had a great year. But it takes more than a nice stadium to bring in the crowds. It takes years of consistent winning and a consistent fan base to start talking about giant stadiums and big home games. You guys bite off more than you can chew and you are stuck with a huge cash cow.You averaged 10,500 per game in a year you won the MAC. If the attendance rules were still in place, you would be in jeopardy of going to I-AA. By comparison, you have to go back to 1965, when the stadium sat only 12,000, to find a year that Toledo averaged under 11,000. Even in 1993 when we were 4-7, we averaged 16,500 and in 1991 we were 5-5-1 and still brought in 19,500 per game.The whole theory of "if you build it they will come" does not work. You need to have someone with some reasoning skills making your plans.

The dildo man will never shut up.