zip37 Posted March 26, 2011 Report Share Posted March 26, 2011 It's sad that the CAA, Horizon, and the Zag's Conference gets teams into the "Sweet 16' and the MAC hasen't done it lately. Hopefully the Zips will correct that shortly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GP1 Posted March 26, 2011 Report Share Posted March 26, 2011 I wouldn't base the quality of the MAC on how one team does in the NCAA Tournament. I don't think much of the MAC in general, but football was better last year than in recent years and I think one might be able to say the same about basketball. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zip Watcher Posted March 26, 2011 Report Share Posted March 26, 2011 I wouldn't base the quality of the MAC on how one team does in the NCAA Tournament. I don't think much of the MAC in general, but football was better last year than in recent years and I think one might be able to say the same about basketball. +1 For the first time in a little while, there are some NBA guys playing in the MAC on different teams. I can think of 3 that I'm pretty sure of .. and another 2 or 3 that are fringe guys. All underclassmen and returning for more next season. It's on the upswing. And the Zips are one of the teams at the head of the pack. Go Zips! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaxZIP Posted March 26, 2011 Report Share Posted March 26, 2011 Decline of the MAC West (basketball) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Z.I.P. Posted March 26, 2011 Report Share Posted March 26, 2011 Decline of the MAC West (basketball) Ummmmmmm...I don't think the MAC West has anywhere to go but up. It's been about as low as you can go. Hopefully the bottom-feeders will jump up, into the top200. Can we hope that much? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnyzip84 Posted March 26, 2011 Report Share Posted March 26, 2011 I've been thinking about the decline of the West over the last few weeks, inspired by the predictable failure of the #2 and #4 seeds in the MAC tourney. In his post-game comments after losing to the Zips, Steve Hawkins bemoaned (not for the 1st time) the difficulty of having to face either Akron or K.E.N.T. at the Q given the proximity of both schools. This got me thinking. How much has the move of the tourney to Cleveland been instrumental in the demise of the West? Since the tourney moved to Cleveland in 2000, only two MAC West teams (Ball St in 2000 and WMU in 2004) have won titles. I didn't have time to crunch the numbers, but the overall tournament W-L percentages for games played there are ridiculously slanted in favor of the East. I don't doubt that SOME of this is simply due to the East putting out some pretty good teams (Heath's Elite 8 team, for instance) over this period. But have the recent dismal showings by the West served to compound the problem? Do the Broncos, Cardinals, Chipps, etc get that old sinking feeling heading east in March on I-80? Have some of the West programs unconsciously "de-emphasized" hoops, figuring the odds are stacked against them anyway? I'm not sure I'd answer "yes" to this last one, but I do wonder how much the move from Seagate in Toledo (or Kobo Hall in Detroit) has contributed to the lack of balance we have witnessed in recent years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachTheZip Posted March 26, 2011 Report Share Posted March 26, 2011 I've been thinking about the decline of the West over the last few weeks, inspired by the predictable failure of the #2 and #4 seeds in the MAC tourney. In his post-game comments after losing to the Zips, Steve Hawkins bemoaned (not for the 1st time) the difficulty of having to face either Akron or K.E.N.T. at the Q given the proximity of both schools. This got me thinking. How much has the move of the tourney to Cleveland been instrumental in the demise of the West? Since the tourney moved to Cleveland in 2000, only two MAC West teams (Ball St in 2000 and WMU in 2004) have won titles. I didn't have time to crunch the numbers, but the overall tournament W-L percentages for games played there are ridiculously slanted in favor of the East. I don't doubt that SOME of this is simply due to the East putting out some pretty good teams (Heath's Elite 8 team, for instance) over this period. But have the recent dismal showings by the West served to compound the problem? Do the Broncos, Cardinals, Chipps, etc get that old sinking feeling heading east in March on I-80? Have some of the West programs unconsciously "de-emphasized" hoops, figuring the odds are stacked against them anyway? I'm not sure I'd answer "yes" to this last one, but I do wonder how much the move from Seagate in Toledo (or Kobo Hall in Detroit) has contributed to the lack of balance we have witnessed in recent years. If you find the time to crunch the numbers, I would compare the W-L percentages in the tourney to the ones in the regular season. The East has dominated the West in the regular season (which is a more fair result since its half home and half away games), so its no surprise that the West gets dominated at the Q as well. Plus the weakest West teams get eliminated early, which means the West champs usually play a lower-seeded but superior East team. I think the West would actually improve if they didn't get an automatic 1 or 2 seed because the top West team then gets to play one of the worse teams on the first round, assuming they don't get a bye. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quickzips Posted March 26, 2011 Report Share Posted March 26, 2011 I've been thinking about the decline of the West over the last few weeks, inspired by the predictable failure of the #2 and #4 seeds in the MAC tourney. In his post-game comments after losing to the Zips, Steve Hawkins bemoaned (not for the 1st time) the difficulty of having to face either Akron or K.E.N.T. at the Q given the proximity of both schools. This got me thinking. How much has the move of the tourney to Cleveland been instrumental in the demise of the West? Since the tourney moved to Cleveland in 2000, only two MAC West teams (Ball St in 2000 and WMU in 2004) have won titles. I didn't have time to crunch the numbers, but the overall tournament W-L percentages for games played there are ridiculously slanted in favor of the East. I don't doubt that SOME of this is simply due to the East putting out some pretty good teams (Heath's Elite 8 team, for instance) over this period. But have the recent dismal showings by the West served to compound the problem? Do the Broncos, Cardinals, Chipps, etc get that old sinking feeling heading east in March on I-80? Have some of the West programs unconsciously "de-emphasized" hoops, figuring the odds are stacked against them anyway? I'm not sure I'd answer "yes" to this last one, but I do wonder how much the move from Seagate in Toledo (or Kobo Hall in Detroit) has contributed to the lack of balance we have witnessed in recent years. If the tournament being in Cleveland is what is dragging the West teams down then quite frankly they all need to fire their entire coaching staffs and bring in some new blood. Come to think of it, most of them would be well advised to do so anyways. The demise of the West has a lot more to do with horrible coaching and subpar recruiting than anything else. Recruit some decent players and coach them up a little bit and you'll have more success come tournament time. Buffalo is just as far away from Cleveland as most of the West division schools, yet they've reached multiple championship games and usually have pretty good success at the Q. Winners win, losers make excuses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spin Posted March 27, 2011 Report Share Posted March 27, 2011 You don't have to crunch any numbers. Jeff Sagarin does it for you... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnyzip84 Posted March 27, 2011 Report Share Posted March 27, 2011 I didn't mean to imply that having the tourney in Cleveland is the ENTIRE reason for the MAC West's troubles. I'm merely questioning whether it's been A factor at all. Don't get me wrong. I LOVE having the tourney at the Q. But I can certainly understand why fans of West Division teams might not feel the same way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachTheZip Posted March 27, 2011 Report Share Posted March 27, 2011 Consider this statement: The MAC football championship games being held in Detroit has a detrimental effect on MAC East teams' performances. Sounds dumb, right? Same thing goes for the basketball argument. The MAC offices are located in downtown Cleveland (in the Tower City complex, in fact), making Cleveland the center of the league. It only makes sense to have a high profile conference event there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaxZIP Posted March 27, 2011 Report Share Posted March 27, 2011 Decline of the MAC West (basketball) Ummmmmmm...I don't think the MAC West has anywhere to go but up. It's been about as low as you can go. Hopefully the bottom-feeders will jump up, into the top200. Can we hope that much? Call me when the bottom 4 west teams are all under 300 rpi. Bsu and wmu might be on the way up but 4 of 6 have no hope. Bsu tanked against the east and western split. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaxZIP Posted March 27, 2011 Report Share Posted March 27, 2011 Consider this statement: The MAC football championship games being held in Detroit has a detrimental effect on MAC East teams' performances. Sounds dumb, right? Same thing goes for the basketball argument. The MAC offices are located in downtown Cleveland (in the Tower City complex, in fact), making Cleveland the center of the league. It only makes sense to have a high profile conference event there. You are right on. I bet the tourney record will parallel the dismal numbers put up by the west in regular season play. The west can't beat eastern teams at home regularly so why would they win at a "neutral site" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MDZip Posted March 27, 2011 Report Share Posted March 27, 2011 You don't have to crunch any numbers. Jeff Sagarin does it for you... Here's a sign for the whole league. According to these stats, MAC competition went 1-28 against top 50 teams this year. Can't and Buffalo (our top ranked teams) only played one each. Zips had two. Miami 7 (with the lone win). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spin Posted March 27, 2011 Report Share Posted March 27, 2011 I've seen more people at Wayne College games than at some of the West Division games this year. Do they even charge admission to some of those gyms? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zipboy Posted April 1, 2011 Report Share Posted April 1, 2011 In his post-game comments after losing to the Zips, Steve Hawkins bemoaned (not for the 1st time) the difficulty of having to face either Akron or K.E.N.T. at the Q given the proximity of both schools. What Steve Hawkins did not say is that over the last 5 years in the regular season WMU is 2-8 against Akron and Can't. WMU has a nice little program that would finish 4th or 5th every year in the East. We could do the tourney like the Horizon and have the top seed host. Can't would have had an even bigger advantage over the past 2 years than playing at the Q. Play a 22 game conference schedule and WMU is a 500 or slightly above 500 team. There is not one year since the tourney went to Cleveland where the MAC West had the best team and lost. Hawkins should be more worried about cheap shots from his players at the end of games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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