Football Attendance for 2012

[bobbyake]

they have the official attendance for the VMI game at 14,257 which makes no sense. There were no more than 3,000 at the game. As far as paid tickets go, that number can not be more than 5,000. They are obviously counting tickets that are given out as gifts for donations and sponsors. I would love to do an audit on their attendance figures.

I'm not sure if I'll continue updating the chart due to attendance figures being too inflated.

Bobby, you need go back to North and learn how to count. Was there 14000 no, but there was about 10000.

The stadium fits 29,000, about 14,500 per side. The visitors side was around 20% (2,900) occupied and the home side around 40% 5,800 which is 8,700. No way they were anywhere near the 14,257.

[MaxZIP]

they have the official attendance for the VMI game at 14,257 which makes no sense. There were no more than 3,000 at the game. As far as paid tickets go, that number can not be more than 5,000. They are obviously counting tickets that are given out as gifts for donations and sponsors. I would love to do an audit on their attendance figures.

I'm not sure if I'll continue updating the chart due to attendance figures being too inflated.

Bobby, you need go back to North and learn how to count. Was there 14000 no, but there was about 10000.

The stadium fits 29,000, about 14,500 per side. The visitors side was around 20% (2,900) occupied and the home side around 40% 5,800 which is 8,700. No way they were anywhere near the 14,257.

Were you there gmann? This pic was during a break in play in the first quarter. I know it doesn't matter and I am officially done commenting on this topic because why call attention to something that is an sore spot and not productive conversation.

[Big Zip]

Wow! That is not 40% at all. So sad.

[bobbyake]

Visitor side around 15% 2,175, home side around 25% 3,625, Safe estimate is 5-6k max. The 14,000 being reported makes this entire comparison to prior years worthless. I know they inflated numbers in the past, but this is beyond ridiculous.

[yazan07]

Visitor side around 15% 2,175, home side around 25% 3,625, Safe estimate is 5-6k max. The 14,000 being reported makes this entire comparison to prior years worthless. I know they inflated numbers in the past, but this is beyond ridiculous.

To top it all off, about 500 of the "14,000" were high school band members who I'm willing to bet also brought their proud band moms and band dads. I wonder how many Zips fans were at the game today? The student section was pathetic, but I don't blame any other students for not coming, it really isn't that much fun. Even winning today wasn't that much fun.

[Dave in Green]

If I were serious about tracking UA football attendance, the first thing I'd do is check in with UA and ask them how they count attendance. They might have a reasonable explanation if you tell them it didn't look like there were that many people were there.

[skip-zip]

they have the official attendance for the VMI game at 14,257 which makes no sense. There were no more than 3,000 at the game. As far as paid tickets go, that number can not be more than 5,000. They are obviously counting tickets that are given out as gifts for donations and sponsors. I would love to do an audit on their attendance figures.

I'm not sure if I'll continue updating the chart due to attendance figures being too inflated.

In addition to what I've posted on here before, about student attendance being couinted as "paid" because it's part of their fees, I have also since found out that there are many other requirements to qualifying your attendance, including audits. They aren't "made up" numbers.

Bobby, I know you were hoping that soccer would reach an average near 5,000 this year. I was pulling for you. But as I said, the problem in reaching that average was going to be that there would be low games. With 4,300 and 2,300 at the last two home games, you will likely fall way short of that mark. I think your estimates showed that you would predict 5,100 and 4,500 at those two games just to give us a chance at a 4,500 average. Falling 3,000 short of your estimates in those two games combined is just an incredible shortfall to make up in soccer. Maybe a number in the 3.500 to 4,000 range might still be attainable? I don't know.

Remember, season ticket holders in soccer that do not show up are also counted. And there are companies that buy tickets that don't get used, same as football.

[bobbyake]

they have the official attendance for the VMI game at 14,257 which makes no sense. There were no more than 3,000 at the game. As far as paid tickets go, that number can not be more than 5,000. They are obviously counting tickets that are given out as gifts for donations and sponsors. I would love to do an audit on their attendance figures.

I'm not sure if I'll continue updating the chart due to attendance figures being too inflated.

In addition to what I've posted on here before, about student attendance being couinted as "paid" because it's part of their fees, I have also since found out that there are many other requirements to qualifying your attendance, including audits. They aren't "made up" numbers.

Bobby, I know you were hoping that soccer would reach an average near 5,000 this year. I was pulling for you. But as I said, the problem in reaching that average was going to be that there would be low games. With 4,300 and 2,300 at the last two home games, you will likely fall way short of that mark. I think your estimates showed that you would predict 5,100 and 4,500 at those two games just to give us a chance at a 4,500 average. Falling 3,000 short of your estimates in those two games combined is just an incredible shortfall to make up in soccer. Maybe a number in the 3.500 to 4,000 range might still be attainable? I don't know.

Remember, season ticket holders in soccer that do not show up are also counted. And there are companies that buy tickets that don't get used, same as football.

there's no longer a reason to debate this. I could take pictures at every game to give good estimates but it's a worthless effort. For those that want to assume the soccer team outdraws the football team, that's a very safe assumption. For those that want to deny it, all you have to do is point to the official 14,257 number.

I'll give the VMI game the benefit of the doubt and estimate actual attendance at 6,000, the Temple game around 10,000. Akron Football will average around 4,500 over the next 4 home games which will give them a total attendance of 34,000 for the entire year.

Akron Soccer plays 10 home games and needs to average 3,400 per game to match that. Averaging 3,400 per game should be realistic considering the OSU game will bring in at least 4,500.

The only reason I compare both programs is because I've seen people argue on here that soccer could not outdraw football. In the case of Akron, it does. The only problem is the football numbers are way off the actual and makes this comparison irrelevant.

I understand the University has to meet attendance requirements to avoid trouble with the D1A status, so I'm not against them doing what has to be done to inflate attendance. They're also hiding the attendance problem from the hippies. The last thing we need is people crying about the costs to build the Info when only 35% of it is filled for games.

As far as continuing this, it's a worthless effort. Attendance for Akron Football games have been inflated in the past so it doesn't make sense to start using estimates on actual, and compare those to prior year inflated numbers.

[Zipsrifle]

Just a thought here, I have no information either way to support this, it's just a thought.

Is it possible, that when Infocision, Summa, First Energy, and Cub Cadet signed the deals to name the Football and Soccer stadiums, they "Bought" a certain number of football tickets? Is it possible that other companies, in exchange for other services from UofA (Advertising, free rooms for functions, etc.) "Bought" tickets? I am in full agreement there weren't 14,000 people at the game and the attendance numbers have ALWAYS seemed inflated. We haven't been busted so something leads me to believe that TW and LP made sure these bases were covered so that we don't have to worry about the NCAA.

As an additional topic, what a day to see a game! I took my neighbors yesterday for their first game at the stadium. They are OSU Alum that grew up near Akron. They had a great time and said that they would be very more than happy to see one game a year at Akron.

[MaxZIP]

they have the official attendance for the VMI game at 14,257 which makes no sense. There were no more than 3,000 at the game. As far as paid tickets go, that number can not be more than 5,000. They are obviously counting tickets that are given out as gifts for donations and sponsors. I would love to do an audit on their attendance figures.

I'm not sure if I'll continue updating the chart due to attendance figures being too inflated.

In addition to what I've posted on here before, about student attendance being couinted as "paid" because it's part of their fees, I have also since found out that there are many other requirements to qualifying your attendance, including audits. They aren't "made up" numbers.

Bobby, I know you were hoping that soccer would reach an average near 5,000 this year. I was pulling for you. But as I said, the problem in reaching that average was going to be that there would be low games. With 4,300 and 2,300 at the last two home games, you will likely fall way short of that mark. I think your estimates showed that you would predict 5,100 and 4,500 at those two games just to give us a chance at a 4,500 average. Falling 3,000 short of your estimates in those two games combined is just an incredible shortfall to make up in soccer. Maybe a number in the 3.500 to 4,000 range might still be attainable? I don't know.

Remember, season ticket holders in soccer that do not show up are also counted. And there are companies that buy tickets that don't get used, same as football.

No butt is seat=all that matters. I believe this thread was started in response to posters talking about attendance being a good indicator of general fan interest. All of the phantom fans in the world will not add up to a single zip fan in the seats. Just want to let everybody know here how bad the situation is not to question their counting methodology. Fan interest is at an all time low. 12,ooo invisible people or not the program is suffering and bleeding money. How much longer can this go on? Not calling for the Icoach's head or anything. But LP might as well light stacks of money on Saturdays and save the trouble of having parking attendants watching empty lots, 10-15 police directing traffic, and overzealous ushers scolding people for standing in the wrong place (despite the fact that they are only blocking the egress and view of phantom fans). Akron is not a national TV draw for sure so actual attendance is the only way we have to gauge fan interest. Continue defending systematic "overestimating" as not being made up figures. It is all fine and good but don't be shocked to see huge red numbers on the balance sheet and empty seats on TV while we are middle of the pack in the MAC attendance figures.

[skip-zip]

they have the official attendance for the VMI game at 14,257 which makes no sense. There were no more than 3,000 at the game. As far as paid tickets go, that number can not be more than 5,000. They are obviously counting tickets that are given out as gifts for donations and sponsors. I would love to do an audit on their attendance figures.

I'm not sure if I'll continue updating the chart due to attendance figures being too inflated.

In addition to what I've posted on here before, about student attendance being couinted as "paid" because it's part of their fees, I have also since found out that there are many other requirements to qualifying your attendance, including audits. They aren't "made up" numbers.

Bobby, I know you were hoping that soccer would reach an average near 5,000 this year. I was pulling for you. But as I said, the problem in reaching that average was going to be that there would be low games. With 4,300 and 2,300 at the last two home games, you will likely fall way short of that mark. I think your estimates showed that you would predict 5,100 and 4,500 at those two games just to give us a chance at a 4,500 average. Falling 3,000 short of your estimates in those two games combined is just an incredible shortfall to make up in soccer. Maybe a number in the 3.500 to 4,000 range might still be attainable? I don't know.

Remember, season ticket holders in soccer that do not show up are also counted. And there are companies that buy tickets that don't get used, same as football.

there's no longer a reason to debate this. I could take pictures at every game to give good estimates but it's a worthless effort. For those that want to assume the soccer team outdraws the football team, that's a very safe assumption. For those that want to deny it, all you have to do is point to the official 14,257 number.

I'll give the VMI game the benefit of the doubt and estimate actual attendance at 6,000, the Temple game around 10,000. Akron Football will average around 4,500 over the next 4 home games which will give them a total attendance of 34,000 for the entire year.

Akron Soccer plays 10 home games and needs to average 3,400 per game to match that. Averaging 3,400 per game should be realistic considering the OSU game will bring in at least 4,500.

The only reason I compare both programs is because I've seen people argue on here that soccer could not outdraw football. In the case of Akron, it does. The only problem is the football numbers are way off the actual and makes this comparison irrelevant.

I understand the University has to meet attendance requirements to avoid trouble with the D1A status, so I'm not against them doing what has to be done to inflate attendance. They're also hiding the attendance problem from the hippies. The last thing we need is people crying about the costs to build the Info when only 35% of it is filled for games.

As far as continuing this, it's a worthless effort. Attendance for Akron Football games have been inflated in the past so it doesn't make sense to start using estimates on actual, and compare those to prior year inflated numbers.

Well, I'm glad to see that you've adjusted your soccer prediction from 4,800 to 3,400 average. I think that's a much more attainable number. And I hope that happens.

Now, if that becomes the average, and soccer ends up somewhere around 30,000 total, the 4 remaining home football games, which includes Ken+, will make the total football attendance and soccer attendance comparisons a no-brainer.

If someone else is more knowledgable on this subject, please let me know. But, as far as I know, "no-shows" count the same in football as in soccer. They both count as paid attendance. Student attendance is counted the same way in both sports too, with a swipe of student IDs as they enter. And both sports count the blocks of corporate tickets the same way, by counting what was purchased, and not who actually attended. These shortfalls in football are obviously going to be blatantly more noticable in a 30,000 seat venue, especially when it includes interior concourses, luxury suites and an entire club level floor.

Go Zips on Wednesday. And I hope everyone takes advantage of their opportunity to get rid of any of your ugly red and silver shirts that you may have laying around.

[Lee Adams]

they have the official attendance for the VMI game at 14,257 which makes no sense. There were no more than 3,000 at the game. As far as paid tickets go, that number can not be more than 5,000. They are obviously counting tickets that are given out as gifts for donations and sponsors. I would love to do an audit on their attendance figures.

I'm not sure if I'll continue updating the chart due to attendance figures being too inflated.

Was at the game. No,there were not anywhere close t0 14,000 in the place. Assuming they counted the high school bands and the no shows I doubt they could come up with 14,000. Our season tickets are in 212. It was REALLY sparse up there. Has been for both games.

There were maybe 9,000 actually there. I also noticed the student section was practically empty. The grass was not crowded either.

I am still not surprised at attendance. Even when the program was winning and going to playoffs in the 60's and 70's it was like this.

[Doug Snyder]

they have the official attendance for the VMI game at 14,257 which makes no sense. There were no more than 3,000 at the game. As far as paid tickets go, that number can not be more than 5,000. They are obviously counting tickets that are given out as gifts for donations and sponsors. I would love to do an audit on their attendance figures.

I'm not sure if I'll continue updating the chart due to attendance figures being too inflated.

Was at the game. No,there were not anywhere close t0 14,000 in the place. Assuming they counted the high school bands and the no shows I doubt they could come up with 14,000. Our season tickets are in 212. It was REALLY sparse up there. Has been for both games.

There were maybe 9,000 actually there. I also noticed the student section was practically empty. The grass was not crowded either.

I am still not surprised at attendance. Even when the program was winning and going to playoffs in the 60's and 70's it was like this.

I have season tickets in 212. Row 1, seats 3 & 4. Stop by and say hello.

[skip-zip]

they have the official attendance for the VMI game at 14,257 which makes no sense. There were no more than 3,000 at the game. As far as paid tickets go, that number can not be more than 5,000. They are obviously counting tickets that are given out as gifts for donations and sponsors. I would love to do an audit on their attendance figures.

I'm not sure if I'll continue updating the chart due to attendance figures being too inflated.

Was at the game. No,there were not anywhere close t0 14,000 in the place. Assuming they counted the high school bands and the no shows I doubt they could come up with 14,000. Our season tickets are in 212. It was REALLY sparse up there. Has been for both games.

There were maybe 9,000 actually there. I also noticed the student section was practically empty. The grass was not crowded either.

I am still not surprised at attendance. Even when the program was winning and going to playoffs in the 60's and 70's it was like this.

Lee...If I exclude every Acme-Zip game, I can pretty much agree with you.

For the younger folks, please understand that this isn't a matter of us drifting away from some previous high standard. We may be really down right now, but it's not like tens of thousands of people have stopped coming to Akron football games over the years. I can point to many, many important games in Akron's football history where the crowds weren't a whole lot bigger than they were yesterday. And we've ALWAYS struggled to reach the minimum average attendance mark for D-1A.

But, this is different now. The frustration and pressure comes from the fact that we now have great facilities, and they are on campus, and there's plenty of good bathrooms. Unfortunately, I think the people who made those excuses for so many years were fooling us. There's simply poor interest in Akron football in this community, and it's unfortunately peaking at a low point right after we've put some pieces in place that should be making it grow more than ever. Yes...frustrating.

[Lee Adams]

they have the official attendance for the VMI game at 14,257 which makes no sense. There were no more than 3,000 at the game. As far as paid tickets go, that number can not be more than 5,000. They are obviously counting tickets that are given out as gifts for donations and sponsors. I would love to do an audit on their attendance figures.

I'm not sure if I'll continue updating the chart due to attendance figures being too inflated.

Was at the game. No,there were not anywhere close t0 14,000 in the place. Assuming they counted the high school bands and the no shows I doubt they could come up with 14,000. Our season tickets are in 212. It was REALLY sparse up there. Has been for both games.

There were maybe 9,000 actually there. I also noticed the student section was practically empty. The grass was not crowded either.

I am still not surprised at attendance. Even when the program was winning and going to playoffs in the 60's and 70's it was like this.

I have season tickets in 212. Row 1, seats 3 & 4. Stop by and say hello.

Will do.

To illustrate the problems Akron has with the fan base, a guy I know and his wife sit behind us. At halftime I see them leaving. He said they were going to watch the Ohio State game. Nuf said.

[bobbyake]

We could see the worst attendance for a Can't/Akron game ever this year. Both programs are garbage right now and the game is on November 12. If we go with non-phantom numbers, maybe 6,000 show up. Like I said, I could start going around the stadium during the game taking pictures of each section to provide an accurate estimate, but I think comparing this year's actual to last years fictional numbers is a waste.

As far as phantom attendance for soccer games, I'd be willing to bet that at least 96% of the attendance is real. I'd bet that more than 50% of football's attendance is phantoms.

[Zipmeister]

they have the official attendance for the VMI game at 14,257 which makes no sense. There were no more than 3,000 at the game. As far as paid tickets go, that number can not be more than 5,000. They are obviously counting tickets that are given out as gifts for donations and sponsors. I would love to do an audit on their attendance figures.

I'm not sure if I'll continue updating the chart due to attendance figures being too inflated.

In addition to what I've posted on here before, about student attendance being couinted as "paid" because it's part of their fees, I have also since found out that there are many other requirements to qualifying your attendance, including audits. They aren't "made up" numbers.

Bobby, I know you were hoping that soccer would reach an average near 5,000 this year. I was pulling for you. But as I said, the problem in reaching that average was going to be that there would be low games. With 4,300 and 2,300 at the last two home games, you will likely fall way short of that mark. I think your estimates showed that you would predict 5,100 and 4,500 at those two games just to give us a chance at a 4,500 average. Falling 3,000 short of your estimates in those two games combined is just an incredible shortfall to make up in soccer. Maybe a number in the 3.500 to 4,000 range might still be attainable? I don't know.

Remember, season ticket holders in soccer that do not show up are also counted. And there are companies that buy tickets that don't get used, same as football.

Skippy, I have some swamp land in Florida I think you might be interested in buying.

[Doug Snyder]

We could see the worst attendance for a Can't/Akron game ever this year. Both programs are garbage right now and the game is on November 12. If we go with non-phantom numbers, maybe 6,000 show up. Like I said, I could start going around the stadium during the game taking pictures of each section to provide an accurate estimate, but I think comparing this year's actual to last years fictional numbers is a waste.

As far as phantom attendance for soccer games, I'd be willing to bet that at least 96% of the attendance is real. I'd bet that more than 50% of football's attendance is phantoms.

Maybe you are correct with regard to actual attendance rates compared with reported. But if you want to compare Can't-Akron game attendance you will need to use reported for both years or actual numbers for both years. Using actual numbers for this year vs reported for last year’s is meaningless.

[skip-zip]

We could see the worst attendance for a Can't/Akron game ever this year. Both programs are garbage right now and the game is on November 12. If we go with non-phantom numbers, maybe 6,000 show up. Like I said, I could start going around the stadium during the game taking pictures of each section to provide an accurate estimate, but I think comparing this year's actual to last years fictional numbers is a waste.

As far as phantom attendance for soccer games, I'd be willing to bet that at least 96% of the attendance is real. I'd bet that more than 50% of football's attendance is phantoms.

As I've said before, if this so-called "phantom attendance" was an acceptable practice, EMU wouldn't be reporting 5,000 average attendance for football.

[you am i]

We could see the worst attendance for a Can't/Akron game ever this year. Both programs are garbage right now and the game is on November 12. If we go with non-phantom numbers, maybe 6,000 show up. Like I said, I could start going around the stadium during the game taking pictures of each section to provide an accurate estimate, but I think comparing this year's actual to last years fictional numbers is a waste.

As far as phantom attendance for soccer games, I'd be willing to bet that at least 96% of the attendance is real. I'd bet that more than 50% of football's attendance is phantoms.

As I've said before, if this so-called "phantom attendance" was an acceptable practice, EMU wouldn't be reporting 5,000 average attendance for football.

The NCAA allows each school to determine its own method of calculating attendance.

EMU may be reporting only fans in the seats, which is really the only honest way to do it.

[Doug Snyder]

We could see the worst attendance for a Can't/Akron game ever this year. Both programs are garbage right now and the game is on November 12. If we go with non-phantom numbers, maybe 6,000 show up. Like I said, I could start going around the stadium during the game taking pictures of each section to provide an accurate estimate, but I think comparing this year's actual to last years fictional numbers is a waste.

As far as phantom attendance for soccer games, I'd be willing to bet that at least 96% of the attendance is real. I'd bet that more than 50% of football's attendance is phantoms.

As I've said before, if this so-called "phantom attendance" was an acceptable practice, EMU wouldn't be reporting 5,000 average attendance for football.

The NCAA allows each school to determine its own method of calculating attendance.

EMU may be reporting only fans in the seats, which is really the only honest way to do it.

As long as it consistent...I could care less. I really don't think attendance figures should be a criteria for D1. Miami Florida draws poorly...but they had great teams. Small school in a upscale enclave surrounded by poor depressed areas predominantly Hispanic (not the right style of futbol) keeps their attendance figures low. Who cares...if the school wants to compete at that level and they can compete...why should there be attendance requirements??

[Dave in Green]

Attendance numbers presented on sports forums by people trying to prove a point are generally unreliable, because people on sports forums are generally more interested in making any interpretation that "proves" their points and ignoring anything that doesn't suit their purposes than they are in researching reliable numbers. The best information on sports attendance generally comes from objective parties who have no stake in what the numbers "prove," and are only focused on the accuracy of the numbers.

Trying to look at it objectively with no interest in proving a point, I do think it's interesting that the average number of butts in seats for a national championship college soccer program is at least in the ballpark with the average number of butts in seats for a losing FBS football team with a long history of mediocre attendance. I think this could only happen at a school like UA. If Indiana won the college soccer national championship and their football team was 1-11, for example, football would likely still far outdraw soccer.

As far as what paid attendance represents vs. butts in seats, higher paid attendance generally represents more income being generated by the program whereas more butts in seats generally represents more interest in the product on the field.

At UA, there should be no doubt that the current level of soccer being played generates much higher fan enthusiasm per capita than football. If the Zips were having even modest success in football, even a multiple national championship soccer program would be unlikely to outdraw the football program given the current level of interest in the U.S. for soccer vs. football.

[bobbyake]

At UA, there should be no doubt that the current level of soccer being played generates much higher fan enthusiasm per capita than football. If the Zips were having even modest success in football, even a multiple national championship soccer program would be unlikely to outdraw the football program given the current level of interest in the U.S. for soccer vs. football.

This isn't true for the entire US; California, Oregon, and Washington would be exceptions as far as professional sports go. A winning Seattle Sounders team will easily outdraw a losing Seattle Seahawks team. Last report I've seen shows MLS attendance and soccer interest up for this year. But that's another story.

As far as this topic goes, fan support for UA football is depressing. I miss the day when I would get excited to go to a Zips football game. Attending the Motor City Bowl to watch Akron was one of my best experiences as a UA student.

[skip-zip]

At UA, there should be no doubt that the current level of soccer being played generates much higher fan enthusiasm per capita than football. If the Zips were having even modest success in football, even a multiple national championship soccer program would be unlikely to outdraw the football program given the current level of interest in the U.S. for soccer vs. football.

This isn't true for the entire US; California, Oregon, and Washington would be exceptions as far as professional sports go. A winning Seattle Sounders team will easily outdraw a losing Seattle Seahawks team. Last report I've seen shows MLS attendance and soccer interest up for this year. But that's another story.

As far as this topic goes, fan support for UA football is depressing. I miss the day when I would get excited to go to a Zips football game. Attending the Motor City Bowl to watch Akron was one of my best experiences as a UA student.

I have to agree with you on that

[Dave in Green]

We probably all agree that both the fan support for, and performance level of, UA football are currently depressing.

We might disagree on whether our best experience was attending the Motor City Bowl to watch UA play against Memphis or attending the MAC championship game and witnessing that magical last second TD pass from Getsy to Hixon that got the Zips to that Motor City Bowl. I was fortunate enough to attend both, and they were both great experiences.

We probably all agree that we want the opportunity to savor both of those experiences again.