Grading Meves

[fknbuflobo]

I am going to chip in my views on David Meves. A number of folks including some

ZipsNation posters know that I have been sour on Mr. Meves for a long time.

First off, the tOSU goal this year was NOT his fault. The excellent tOSU player

slipped between the two Zips defenders and fired a clean, hard to defend shot. Goal

Ohio State. Again, not Meves fault.

That said. He stinks. Forget the weak leg.He has no business punting the ball EVER.

His poor play cost Akron a win over Ohio State last year in Columbus. Seventeen seconds

to play and he punts the ball to midfield with the Zips leading 2-1 and OSU a man down.

They promptly made a counter attack and scored with three seconds to play.

That ball should never have been punted. It was a STUPID, seven grade level play.

Throw the ball to one of your defenders when the referee starts toward you to warn you

of delaying the game. That is smart soccer. He was foolish to give up possession of the

ball with so little time remaining. It was a bone head play that had me seething all the way

home as Dave In Green and Hilltopper can attest to.

Worse, his poor play nearly cost the Zips in the NCAA tournament against California by

allowing two goals late in the game. It took a shoot out to advance after holding a two

goal advantage.

This year he has been listless and playing like a high schooler. An assistant coach told

me at the end of last season that they knew what Meves needed to do to improve. Well,

he hasn't. His play is weak and uninspired.

I am pleased that others are now noticing his poor play. I am not pleased that he is playing

so poorly.

An earlier post noted that a lot of his miscues were covered by the excellent defenders the

Zips had in 2009 and 2010. I agree.

One thing to remember, Caleb Porter has confidence in Meves or he would be collecting

splinters in his ass. I just want to see David play better and more consistently. No more

punting the ball up field, ever. He sucks at it.

I agree with everything you say.

Two things Meves does well:

1. As Ando notes, his distribution throwing is good.

2. He is very good at reacting to the shot ball. His reflexes are quick. The long balls, not so much. I nearly burst a vessel during the last 10 minutes vs. California.

[GoZipsGoZips]

I am going to chip in my views on David Meves. A number of folks including some

ZipsNation posters know that I have been sour on Mr. Meves for a long time.

First off, the tOSU goal this year was NOT his fault. The excellent tOSU player

slipped between the two Zips defenders and fired a clean, hard to defend shot. Goal

Ohio State. Again, not Meves fault.

That said. He stinks. Forget the weak leg.He has no business punting the ball EVER.

His poor play cost Akron a win over Ohio State last year in Columbus. Seventeen seconds

to play and he punts the ball to midfield with the Zips leading 2-1 and OSU a man down.

They promptly made a counter attack and scored with three seconds to play.

That ball should never have been punted. It was a STUPID, seven grade level play.

Throw the ball to one of your defenders when the referee starts toward you to warn you

of delaying the game. That is smart soccer. He was foolish to give up possession of the

ball with so little time remaining. It was a bone head play that had me seething all the way

home as Dave In Green and Hilltopper can attest to.

Worse, his poor play nearly cost the Zips in the NCAA tournament against California by

allowing two goals late in the game. It took a shoot out to advance after holding a two

goal advantage.

This year he has been listless and playing like a high schooler. An assistant coach told

me at the end of last season that they knew what Meves needed to do to improve. Well,

he hasn't. His play is weak and uninspired.

I am pleased that others are now noticing his poor play. I am not pleased that he is playing

so poorly.

An earlier post noted that a lot of his miscues were covered by the excellent defenders the

Zips had in 2009 and 2010. I agree.

One thing to remember, Caleb Porter has confidence in Meves or he would be collecting

splinters in his ass. I just want to see David play better and more consistently. No more

punting the ball up field, ever. He sucks at it.

Some points to back my opinion:

First

This is NOT the video that I was speaking of when I said that I saw and heard Porter talking about Meves' lapses last year... when he seemed to loose focus. There's another video where Porter elaborates more... can''t find it... too many WL Beers. Probably someone knows which video it's in. Same point though... Porter does question Meves sometimes... and I think that it's a stronger question than he has for most other players... certainly more doubt for Meves than the other returning starters.

Second

There are plenty of people out there who question Meves... it just takes some gonads to speak out on ZipsNation. Not so in the stands! I posted another ZipsNation Update video just after the OSU game... and had to delete it... twice.... because of the clip that I included on the Ohio State goal... where Meves decided to come out of the box... and maybe should have stayed home. I lowered the video volume on it once and I could still hear two people yelling at Meves. That's YouTube... not a good place to voice opinions. Here is better.

Third

I am not a parent or relative of a Zip player. I'm not a small guy... so I played football... and there are no soccer genes in my family. But... I do sit in the parents section... and that's why I had to edit and delete the video. I would imagine that the stands are full of people whoe scream at Meves sometimes... because we just can't figure out what gets in his head.

Fourth

I don't question Porter... glad we have him. We were a good team before he got here and he made us a dynasty. I just think that Porter feels the same about Meves sometimes. Of course... he can't always be pleased at the individual play of any position... and I understand that. He got on Mattocks big time for his red card against NM... and he had to. But he also praises Mattocks. Same for Meves.

Fifth

I never questioned Meves stats. Stat-wise... he looks good... excellent even. I just don't like what gets in his head sometimes. Yellow cards to get on TV? Plus... there's the good game - bad game thing. He is on for a few games... then he is off... or lacks focus. He had another good game on Sat... 3 SOG... no goals allowed.

But what was the yellow card for against WMU? Hopefull he tackled a WMU player... and it was not aother delay after a ref warns him.

Sixth

When I mentioned playoff game... here's what I meant. If I was an opposing coach... I would talk to the ref(s) and tell him that Meves tends to delay the game a bit when the Zips are ahead... and that he tends to not listen when he is told to get the ball in play. I would tell the ref to watch for that and issue a red card for his habit of ignoring the request to start play. Doubt that a guy who habitually ignores a ref's request to get the ball in play would ever result in a red card... but it's worth a try.... for an opposing coach.

I'm not real anti-Meves. I just wish that he would straighten out and listen sometimes... and stay in focus.

Here's another question...

Generation Addidas didn't come knocking for Meves last year... and I wonder if they will this year. Porter in very influential in the MLS draft... so I think that he probably told people that Meves needs another year at the college level when some teams showed interest. If Porter would have given them his complete backing for Meves... he wouldn't be here in 2011 Right?

There were only 3 GKs taken in the SuperDraft last year... so considering this... is he one of the best 3 in the nation in 2011? I think that we are looking to have Meves again in 2012.

[bobbyake]

I am going to chip in my views on David Meves. A number of folks including some

ZipsNation posters know that I have been sour on Mr. Meves for a long time.

First off, the tOSU goal this year was NOT his fault. The excellent tOSU player

slipped between the two Zips defenders and fired a clean, hard to defend shot. Goal

Ohio State. Again, not Meves fault.

That said. He stinks. Forget the weak leg.He has no business punting the ball EVER.

His poor play cost Akron a win over Ohio State last year in Columbus. Seventeen seconds

to play and he punts the ball to midfield with the Zips leading 2-1 and OSU a man down.

They promptly made a counter attack and scored with three seconds to play.

That ball should never have been punted. It was a STUPID, seven grade level play.

Throw the ball to one of your defenders when the referee starts toward you to warn you

of delaying the game. That is smart soccer. He was foolish to give up possession of the

ball with so little time remaining. It was a bone head play that had me seething all the way

home as Dave In Green and Hilltopper can attest to.

Worse, his poor play nearly cost the Zips in the NCAA tournament against California by

allowing two goals late in the game. It took a shoot out to advance after holding a two

goal advantage.

This year he has been listless and playing like a high schooler. An assistant coach told

me at the end of last season that they knew what Meves needed to do to improve. Well,

he hasn't. His play is weak and uninspired.

I am pleased that others are now noticing his poor play. I am not pleased that he is playing

so poorly.

An earlier post noted that a lot of his miscues were covered by the excellent defenders the

Zips had in 2009 and 2010. I agree.

One thing to remember, Caleb Porter has confidence in Meves or he would be collecting

splinters in his ass. I just want to see David play better and more consistently. No more

punting the ball up field, ever. He sucks at it.

Some points to back my opinion:

First

This is NOT the video that I was speaking of when I said that I saw and heard Porter talking about Meves' lapses last year... when he seemed to loose focus. There's another video where Porter elaborates more... can''t find it... too many WL Beers. Probably someone knows which video it's in. Same point though... Porter does question Meves sometimes... and I think that it's a stronger question than he has for most other players... certainly more doubt for Meves than the other returning starters.

Second

There are plenty of people out there who question Meves... it just takes some gonads to speak out on ZipsNation. Not so in the stands! I posted another ZipsNation Update video just after the OSU game... and had to delete it... twice.... because of the clip that I included on the Ohio State goal... where Meves decided to come out of the box... and maybe should have stayed home. I lowered the video volume on it once and I could still hear two people yelling at Meves. That's YouTube... not a good place to voice opinions. Here is better.

Third

I am not a parent or relative of a Zip player. I'm not a small guy... so I played football... and there are no soccer genes in my family. But... I do sit in the parents section... and that's why I had to edit and delete the video. I would imagine that the stands are full of people whoe scream at Meves sometimes... because we just can't figure out what gets in his head.

Fourth

I don't question Porter... glad we have him. We were a good team before he got here and he made us a dynasty. I just think that Porter feels the same about Meves sometimes. Of course... he can't always be pleased at the individual play of any position... and I understand that. He got on Mattocks big time for his red card against NM... and he had to. But he also praises Mattocks. Same for Meves.

Fifth

I never questioned Meves stats. Stat-wise... he looks good... excellent even. I just don't like what gets in his head sometimes. Yellow cards to get on TV? Plus... there's the good game - bad game thing. He is on for a few games... then he is off... or lacks focus. He had another good game on Sat... 3 SOG... no goals allowed.

But what was the yellow card for against WMU? Hopefull he tackled a WMU player... and it was not aother delay after a ref warns him.

Sixth

When I mentioned playoff game... here's what I meant. If I was an opposing coach... I would talk to the ref(s) and tell him that Meves tends to delay the game a bit when the Zips are ahead... and that he tends to not listen when he is told to get the ball in play. I would tell the ref to watch for that and issue a red card for his habit of ignoring the request to start play. Doubt that a guy who habitually ignores a ref's request to get the ball in play would ever result in a red card... but it's worth a try.... for an opposing coach.

I'm not real anti-Meves. I just wish that he would straighten out and listen sometimes... and stay in focus.

Here's another question...

Generation Addidas didn't come knocking for Meves last year... and I wonder if they will this year. Porter in very influential in the MLS draft... so I think that he probably told people that Meves needs another year at the college level when some teams showed interest. If Porter would have given them his complete backing for Meves... he wouldn't be here in 2011 Right?

There were only 3 GKs taken in the SuperDraft last year... so considering this... is he one of the best 3 in the nation in 2011? I think that we are looking to have Meves again in 2012.

He may be getting his instructions to delay from Porter. If so, can you knock him for it?

[gazip11]

It's unfair to say he only had one SOG and he didn't make the save, so therefore he is a lousy keeper. I don't recall the first two goals he gave up, but I know that the goal he gave up against OSU was a well placed shot and there wasn't much he could do. It was more the defenders' fault than Meves's. Meves did very well on making quick decisions on crosses into the box and therefore actually stopped SOG from happening.

the problem with soccer stats is that they don't keep stats for things like preventing shots on goals.

Meves is really good and with a little leg strength, could find himself playing in the MLS.

His stats for USL Chicago Fire:

SOG - 38

GA - 3

Saves - 35

GAA - .426

SO - 5

He saved 92% of the shots on goal.

http://www.uslsoccer.com/teams/2011/22315.html#STATS

I remember the Chicago Fire PDL got kicked out of the US Open Cup on a 3-0 loss to Sporting Kansas City (the senior squad, not a PLD team) so if he really only had three goals against him all summer, that means all three came from a professional team.

http://www.mlssoccer.com/news/article/2011...chicago-pdl-3-0

It’s extremely difficult being a keeper in a team which is always on the attack were he has very little to do for much of the time then all of a sudden he’s required to make a save or deal with a dangerous cross in to his box, this takes supreme concentration and is much more difficult than it looks. Compare this to a keeper playing in a team where he is constantly in the action having to make save after save and always involved, a keeper playing in this fashion stays warm and loose and can produce good stats. Another thing that is important in a top keeper is having “Presence” someone who dominates his box and takes command of his area, defenders need a keeper to have this skill as it also gives them more confidence while doing their job of defending.

[Zip_ME87]

It’s extremely difficult being a keeper in a team which is always on the attack were he has very little to do for much of the time then all of a sudden he’s required to make a save or deal with a dangerous cross in to his box, this takes supreme concentration and is much more difficult than it looks. Compare this to a keeper playing in a team where he is constantly in the action having to make save after save and always involved, a keeper playing in this fashion stays warm and loose and can produce good stats. Another thing that is important in a top keeper is having “Presence” someone who dominates his box and takes command of his area, defenders need a keeper to have this skill as it also gives them more confidence while doing their job of defending.

Thanks for that insight and bringing this thread back up for the low depths to which it sunk. I've admitted on here (in another thread) that Meves scares me at times. But, having the record that the Zips have over Meves' time in goal, as well as a National Championship in hand, how can we seriously want to make a huge change like swapping out our GK. Yes, he makes mistakes at times like everyone does, but I wouldn't take him out, NO WAY, NO HOW! We've lost 1 game in the regular run of play since he's been our GK. Against Virginia, when I thought we were done in PKs, he made a few stellar saves to give our guys the chance to win. Against Cal, I believe David also made a stellar save or 2 to get us to the College Cup and eventually the National Championship. Yes, Chad had to step in in the Championship Game, but as I said before, that's what GREAT teams do...they have each others' backs. I can't believe the seriousness of some of these posts, wanting to replace Meves, given the outstanding team that we have. Take a break...tinker elsewhere...move back to the football forum...there's something that needs us to let Tom Wistrcill and Dr. Proenza know needs serious changing. Leave Mens Soccer in the hands of the professionals...Caleb Porter and staff.

GO ZIPS! Let's see no tortillas flying this Wednesday!

[Ando]

pretty sure no one actually said meves shouldn't start

[Zip_ME87]

pretty sure no one actually said meves shouldn't start

I probably overreacted, but I feel like there's too much discussion of this subject. I wish that I would never have added to it in the other thread. We have a very successful team with a great coach at the helm...be happy.

EDIT: I love our team for all they do and the pride that they bring to Akron. I'm lucky that in a few hours I'll be sitting in the front row at the Home Depot Center...hopefully seeing Ben Zemanski, Zarek Valentin, and Blair Gavin in action (if all are healthy and get into the game). In a few days, I'll be back at Harder Stadium to see the defending National Champions back at the site where they won it all. It's all positive. GO ZIPS!

[GoZipsGoZips]

I am going to chip in my views on David Meves. A number of folks including some

ZipsNation posters know that I have been sour on Mr. Meves for a long time.

First off, the tOSU goal this year was NOT his fault. The excellent tOSU player

slipped between the two Zips defenders and fired a clean, hard to defend shot. Goal

Ohio State. Again, not Meves fault.

That said. He stinks. Forget the weak leg.He has no business punting the ball EVER.

His poor play cost Akron a win over Ohio State last year in Columbus. Seventeen seconds

to play and he punts the ball to midfield with the Zips leading 2-1 and OSU a man down.

They promptly made a counter attack and scored with three seconds to play.

That ball should never have been punted. It was a STUPID, seven grade level play.

Throw the ball to one of your defenders when the referee starts toward you to warn you

of delaying the game. That is smart soccer. He was foolish to give up possession of the

ball with so little time remaining. It was a bone head play that had me seething all the way

home as Dave In Green and Hilltopper can attest to.

Worse, his poor play nearly cost the Zips in the NCAA tournament against California by

allowing two goals late in the game. It took a shoot out to advance after holding a two

goal advantage.

This year he has been listless and playing like a high schooler. An assistant coach told

me at the end of last season that they knew what Meves needed to do to improve. Well,

he hasn't. His play is weak and uninspired.

I am pleased that others are now noticing his poor play. I am not pleased that he is playing

so poorly.

An earlier post noted that a lot of his miscues were covered by the excellent defenders the

Zips had in 2009 and 2010. I agree.

One thing to remember, Caleb Porter has confidence in Meves or he would be collecting

splinters in his ass. I just want to see David play better and more consistently. No more

punting the ball up field, ever. He sucks at it.

Some points to back my opinion:

First

This is NOT the video that I was speaking of when I said that I saw and heard Porter talking about Meves' lapses last year... when he seemed to loose focus. There's another video where Porter elaborates more... can''t find it... too many WL Beers. Probably someone knows which video it's in. Same point though... Porter does question Meves sometimes... and I think that it's a stronger question than he has for most other players... certainly more doubt for Meves than the other returning starters.

Second

There are plenty of people out there who question Meves... it just takes some gonads to speak out on ZipsNation. Not so in the stands! I posted another ZipsNation Update video just after the OSU game... and had to delete it... twice.... because of the clip that I included on the Ohio State goal... where Meves decided to come out of the box... and maybe should have stayed home. I lowered the video volume on it once and I could still hear two people yelling at Meves. That's YouTube... not a good place to voice opinions. Here is better.

Third

I am not a parent or relative of a Zip player. I'm not a small guy... so I played football... and there are no soccer genes in my family. But... I do sit in the parents section... and that's why I had to edit and delete the video. I would imagine that the stands are full of people whoe scream at Meves sometimes... because we just can't figure out what gets in his head.

Fourth

I don't question Porter... glad we have him. We were a good team before he got here and he made us a dynasty. I just think that Porter feels the same about Meves sometimes. Of course... he can't always be pleased at the individual play of any position... and I understand that. He got on Mattocks big time for his red card against NM... and he had to. But he also praises Mattocks. Same for Meves.

Fifth

I never questioned Meves stats. Stat-wise... he looks good... excellent even. I just don't like what gets in his head sometimes. Yellow cards to get on TV? Plus... there's the good game - bad game thing. He is on for a few games... then he is off... or lacks focus. He had another good game on Sat... 3 SOG... no goals allowed.

But what was the yellow card for against WMU? Hopefull he tackled a WMU player... and it was not aother delay after a ref warns him.

Sixth

When I mentioned playoff game... here's what I meant. If I was an opposing coach... I would talk to the ref(s) and tell him that Meves tends to delay the game a bit when the Zips are ahead... and that he tends to not listen when he is told to get the ball in play. I would tell the ref to watch for that and issue a red card for his habit of ignoring the request to start play. Doubt that a guy who habitually ignores a ref's request to get the ball in play would ever result in a red card... but it's worth a try.... for an opposing coach.

I'm not real anti-Meves. I just wish that he would straighten out and listen sometimes... and stay in focus.

Here's another question...

Generation Addidas didn't come knocking for Meves last year... and I wonder if they will this year. Porter in very influential in the MLS draft... so I think that he probably told people that Meves needs another year at the college level when some teams showed interest. If Porter would have given them his complete backing for Meves... he wouldn't be here in 2011 Right?

There were only 3 GKs taken in the SuperDraft last year... so considering this... is he one of the best 3 in the nation in 2011? I think that we are looking to have Meves again in 2012.

He may be getting his instructions to delay from Porter. If so, can you knock him for it?

Does it seem likely to you that Porter is risking a card to knock 3-5 seconds off of the clock? Doubt it.

[Z.I.P.]

pretty sure no one actually said meves shouldn't start

I probably overreacted, but I feel like there's too much discussion of this subject. I wish that I would never have added to it in the other thread. We have a very successful team with a great coach at the helm...be happy.

EDIT: I love our team for all they do and the pride that they bring to Akron. I'm lucky that in a few hours I'll be sitting in the front row at the Home Depot Center...hopefully seeing Ben Zemanski, Zarek Valentin, and Blair Gavin in action (if all are healthy and get into the game). In a few days, I'll be back at Harder Stadium to see the defending National Champions back at the site where they won it all. It's all positive. GO ZIPS!

Whoops! Sad to say that only Blair saw action -- in the second half of the draw with Philly Union. I left the house with about ten minutes to play, as Chivas was playing so poorly -- assuming they had no chance of scoring. What happened?? Anyway, Zarek was suspended, apparently got a red card the previous game. And Ben was not used. Robin Foster seems to have a totally different lineup each game.

Zip_ME87 -- was the crowd at HDC as small as it looked on TV? The side cross from the cameras had maybe 3-4 thousand tops.

[bisbee]

pretty sure no one actually said meves shouldn't start

I probably overreacted, but I feel like there's too much discussion of this subject. I wish that I would never have added to it in the other thread. We have a very successful team with a great coach at the helm...be happy.

EDIT: I love our team for all they do and the pride that they bring to Akron. I'm lucky that in a few hours I'll be sitting in the front row at the Home Depot Center...hopefully seeing Ben Zemanski, Zarek Valentin, and Blair Gavin in action (if all are healthy and get into the game). In a few days, I'll be back at Harder Stadium to see the defending National Champions back at the site where they won it all. It's all positive. GO ZIPS!

Whoops! Sad to say that only Blair saw action -- in the second half of the draw with Philly Union. I left the house with about ten minutes to play, as Chivas was playing so poorly -- assuming they had no chance of scoring. What happened?? Anyway, Zarek was suspended, apparently got a red card the previous game. And Ben was not used. Robin Foster seems to have a totally different lineup each game.

Zip_ME87 -- was the crowd at HDC as small as it looked on TV? The side cross from the cameras had maybe 3-4 thousand tops.

I will be in Phoenix watching on the TV

[Zip_ME87]

Whoops! Sad to say that only Blair saw action -- in the second half of the draw with Philly Union. I left the house with about ten minutes to play, as Chivas was playing so poorly -- assuming they had no chance of scoring. What happened?? Anyway, Zarek was suspended, apparently got a red card the previous game. And Ben was not used. Robin Foster seems to have a totally different lineup each game.

Zip_ME87 -- was the crowd at HDC as small as it looked on TV? The side cross from the cameras had maybe 3-4 thousand tops.

Yeah, I seem to have bad luck at the HDC. None of our guys started. At least Blair started the 2nd half and played that full 45 minutes. I didn't even get to say "hi" to any of our guys. They never hung around afterward at all. The crowd was very sparse as you noticed on tv.

Edit: I did wander over to Hermosa Beach on Monday morning and walk around the area where I believe Zarek and Heath Pearce share an apt. Zarek probably doesn't realize he gave away his address with that photo of their view that he posted on twitter. Google street view is an amazing thing (especially when the street doesn't cover a long distance). Nice area, nice beach (HOT girls playing volleyball, if I'm allowed to mention that on ZN.o ), good restaurants with sidewalk seating.

[Z.I.P.]

Whoops! Sad to say that only Blair saw action -- in the second half of the draw with Philly Union. I left the house with about ten minutes to play, as Chivas was playing so poorly -- assuming they had no chance of scoring. What happened?? Anyway, Zarek was suspended, apparently got a red card the previous game. And Ben was not used. Robin Foster seems to have a totally different lineup each game.

Zip_ME87 -- was the crowd at HDC as small as it looked on TV? The side cross from the cameras had maybe 3-4 thousand tops.

Yeah, I seem to have bad luck at the HDC. None of our guys started. At least Blair started the 2nd half and played that full 45 minutes. I didn't even get to say "hi" to any of our guys. They never hung around afterward at all. The crowd was very sparse as you noticed on tv.

Edit: I did wander over to Hermosa Beach on Monday morning and walk around the area where I believe Zarek and Heath Pearce share an apt. Zarek probably doesn't realize he gave away his address with that photo of their view that he posted on twitter. Google street view is an amazing thing (especially when the street doesn't cover a long distance). Nice area, nice beach (HOT girls playing volleyball, if I'm allowed to mention that on ZN.o ), good restaurants with sidewalk seating.

Not sure what Chivas' weekend (and training) schedule is -- If he has time, it wouldn't surprise me to see 'Z' show up in Isla Vista. You might be interested in visiting with Big Mike and the Locos at Giovanni's pizza before the match. I hope at least a handful of W Coast Zips can make it. I hear there's a terrible cold spell blowing in with rain. Colder than the Cup weekend. Yikes!

[Zip_ME87]

Whoops! Sad to say that only Blair saw action -- in the second half of the draw with Philly Union. I left the house with about ten minutes to play, as Chivas was playing so poorly -- assuming they had no chance of scoring. What happened?? Anyway, Zarek was suspended, apparently got a red card the previous game. And Ben was not used. Robin Foster seems to have a totally different lineup each game.

Zip_ME87 -- was the crowd at HDC as small as it looked on TV? The side cross from the cameras had maybe 3-4 thousand tops.

Yeah, I seem to have bad luck at the HDC. None of our guys started. At least Blair started the 2nd half and played that full 45 minutes. I didn't even get to say "hi" to any of our guys. They never hung around afterward at all. The crowd was very sparse as you noticed on tv.

Edit: I did wander over to Hermosa Beach on Monday morning and walk around the area where I believe Zarek and Heath Pearce share an apt. Zarek probably doesn't realize he gave away his address with that photo of their view that he posted on twitter. Google street view is an amazing thing (especially when the street doesn't cover a long distance). Nice area, nice beach (HOT girls playing volleyball, if I'm allowed to mention that on ZN.o ), good restaurants with sidewalk seating.

Not sure what Chivas' weekend (and training) schedule is -- If he has time, it wouldn't surprise me to see 'Z' show up in Isla Vista. You might be interested in visiting with Big Mike and the Locos at Giovanni's pizza before the match. I hope at least a handful of W Coast Zips can make it. I hear there's a terrible cold spell blowing in with rain. Colder than the Cup weekend. Yikes!

Yes, definitely colder than cup weekend...that was hot! Unfortunately, it is raining here...the only day this week it's supposed to rain. However, it is supposed to stop around 6 pm. I can take the 50's and 60's much better if the rain would stop...PLEASE! Sunny, Southern California, please!

[mjm42779]

Meves should be playing for the football team. I love the aggression coming out for the ball!

[Ando]

partially an extended response to this thread:

http://akronsportsnow.com/a-note-on-the-pr...-shots-on-goal/

kind of long winded so I won't copypaste here

[tbozeglav]

good post. lots of info I wasnt aware of until now.

Only complaint is that it spent all that time presenting the data but little, if any, time explaining how it correlates to Meves' performance and why or why not Meves is a good keeper. Id like to see what someone thinks of his performance so far given the data in that post.

also interesting to see that ZNO is a rare breed of forums for collegiate soccer. thought given the history of other programs out there, thered be more of an online following.

[Ando]

good post. lots of info I wasnt aware of until now.

Only complaint is that it spent all that time presenting the data but little, if any, time explaining how it correlates to Meves' performance and why or why not Meves is a good keeper. Id like to see what someone thinks of his performance so far given the data in that post.

also interesting to see that ZNO is a rare breed of forums for collegiate soccer. thought given the history of other programs out there, thered be more of an online following.

well the point was sort of that, given the statistical noise inherent in the relationship between SOGs and goals, the data actually can't tell us anything useful.

[Z.I.P.]

partially an extended response to this thread:

http://akronsportsnow.com/a-note-on-the-pr...-shots-on-goal/

kind of long winded so I won't copypaste here

In fairness, stat-keeping isn’t big in college soccer, and even if we had more traditional stats available (chances, possession, action zones, etc). it’s still somewhat dubious that those things would be much better. The fact is, though, that looking at the number of goals you let in compared to the number of shots you face cannot tell you anything about keeper performance.

To draw an analogy, any SABR-savvy baseball fan can explain to you that, if you want to know how defensively sound a player is, looking at a player’s fielding percentage is a rather futile exercise , because it ignores factors that are, all things told, more essential than “did you catch the ball or not.” Range and throwing power are harder to quantify, but probably tell you a lot more in the long run.

I don’t know if there is a UZR equivalent for goalkeepers, and I would imagine that if there is one it is as inherently problematic as UZR for largely the same reasons. It’d be interesting to know whether or not Porter uses some sort of match analysis tool, (this one seems really frickin’ sweet) but what we relatively resource-less fans are left with are our eyes and the eyes of professional scouts at places like TopDrawer and SoccerByIves.

A quite impressive attempt to capture some experientially valid information on the goalkeeping arts, Andy. Thanks. I don't know for sure, but I think some programs still use this company's software for game analysis. (Sorry - the website is pretty useless) I have a friend-of-a-friend connection to the inventor, former CSU-Northridge coach Zvi Friedman. Does anyone know of other computer software programs designed for soccer analysis?

[Dave in Green]

Well, I think everyone who belittles statistics will just love this inconconclusive analysis.

But, really, how can one conclude anything other than the fact that no statistic totally captures the full capabilities of a soccer goalie?

As one who believes that stats are useful and shouldn't be ignored, but that they represent only part of the total data picture, I appreciate the problems of trying to measure a soccer goalie by stats alone.

I've only recently begun paying much attention to soccer. But it's already obvious to me that there is no stat that captures the quality of shots on goal. The more difficult the shot, the more skilled the goalie must be to stop it. So stats may show that one goalie stopped a high number of shots, but fail to show that they were all relatively easy shots to stop. Yet a goalie who stopped fewer shots that were more difficult may be rated lower by stats while actually being more skilled.

My initial thinking is that I would want to closely analyze video of every shot on goal against every goalie before I started making any evaluations of which goalie had the greater skills. Fortunately, there aren't that many shots on goal in a typical soccer game. So it should be manageable for someone with reasonable resources to do this. And I would assume that it is being done by someone in the pro soccer business who's evaluating college and other amateur soccer goalies for potential pro contracts.

So I guess my inititial inclination would be to look at the raw stats, but then place greater emphasis on what the pro soccer analysts concluded from studying videotape of shots on goal, and how each goalie handled each shot according to its difficulty.

[Ando]

My initial thinking is that I would want to closely analyze video of every shot on goal against every goalie before I started making any evaluations of which goalie had the greater skills. Fortunately, there aren't that many shots on goal in a typical soccer game. So it should be manageable for someone with reasonable resources to do this. And I would assume that it is being done by someone in the pro soccer business who's evaluating college and other amateur soccer goalies for potential pro contracts.

So I guess my inititial inclination would be to look at the raw stats, but then place greater emphasis on what the pro soccer analysts concluded from studying videotape of shots on goal, and how each goalie handled each shot according to its difficulty.

certain software programs do that for you

the match analysis guys demo it on this video for mambo: http://matchanalysis.com/mambo.htm

prozone can do it too, and a whole bunch of other stuff. Arsene Wenger uses it, pretty sure. http://www.prozonesports.com/product-prozone3.html

[Dave in Green]

Pretty cool software. As sophisticated as it is, I'd still want to have experienced talent evaluators view the footage looking for intangibles.

A college soccer goalie probably faces fewer than 200 shots on goal per season. If you look at, say, 6 seconds of video for each of 200 or fewer shots, that's only about 1,200 seconds (20 minutes) or less per goalie. At that rate you could review all shots on goal for the top 30 college soccer goalies in the country in about 10 hours.

[tbozeglav]

The issue I believe that stems from what would be considered a "quality" shot is how one quantifies a quality shot. A difficult SOG to one person may be less to someone else, so some kind of objective system of categorizing shots would be needed. Then youd have to take into account whether the keeper was in position or not to properly defend the SOG, if they had already blocked the shot once and the second shot was coming off a rebound, etc...

Could it be done? sure; with enough time and video resources, some basic statistic of rating a keeper's performance could be developed. Just needs more work...

[tbozeglav]

Bringing the thread back due to a very coincidental post I found today regarding this very topic. Granted this applies to Hockey and not Soccer, but the principles of the two games are similar enough that the same kind of statistical calculation could be transpired to soccer keepers. The new statistic is DIGR (Defensive Independent Goalie Rating).

Schuckers mapped every shot each goalie faced last season, allowing him to isolate a goalie’s save percentage against shots from every location on the ice. He put those findings against a plot of every shot taken in the NHL in order to estimate how each goalie would fare not just against the shots he faced, but against the shots all the goalies faced—therefore putting them all up against the same shots. (Empty-net, penalty and shootout shots were eliminated.)

http://blogs.thescore.com/nhl/2011/10/17/d...ave-percentage/And for how the DIGR rating compares to the standard Save %, click below:http://online.wsj.com/article_email/SB1000...share_email_botBased on what I am reading here, this stat really accounts for some of the issues we've pointed out with how to "grade" keepers in a way I believe is best. Also, by comparing the keeper to ALL shots taken against ALL keepers, it gives a truer sense of who's better. In our instance, since during our dominant games our keeper sees few, if any SOGs, this stat would account for the lack thereof. Very interesting stuff here.