ABJ follow Up to Attendence article

[Z-Pouch]

I found one of the more interesting points to be the dislike of the JAR and specifically the inner track in the upper deck. I know there were rumors in the past about gutting the JAR and reconfiguring. Getting rid of the track and creating walkways under the stands would greatly improve the place. Seems to me that the JAR has potential if reconfigured to increase capacity, create more of arena environment, and move upper and side seats closer to the court. Atleast, I would love to see an expanded walk in team shop, ticket office and concessions by using some of the classroom space. does the U actually need to have classrooms in the JAR at this time ? Readers tell why they skip UA gamesZips' lack of winning tradition is top reasonBy Tom GaffneyA collective nerve was touched last week when it was pointed out that the small attendance at the University of Akron's men's basketball games is puzzling, considering the quality of the product.Few were happy to see it in print, but the more enlightened readers understood that its purpose was to stir action among anyone involved in being part of the solution.Coach Keith Dambrot, whose first-place team plays host to Bowling Green at Rhodes Arena tonight, said he ``will do what it takes to fix the problem.'' Athletic Director Mack Rhoades said an ambitious sale of tickets in basketball -- and football -- is one of his top priorities.Most problem-solving is aided by communication from the masses. This one is no exception. The Beacon Journal asked readers to tell us why they don't go to basketball games, and there were 20 replies via e-mail, three by voice mail and one by regular mail. That is not enough to be statistically relevant, but it provides enough information to be taken seriously.The No. 1 reason -- the primary point in three replies and a secondary one in four others -- was that the basketball program's successes years ago were at the small-college level, not in Division I.``I can't get excited because the tradition is so spotty. What have they really done? When they have `been there' (regular postseason appearances), I might get excited,'' said one respondent.Another wrote: ``This team has shown no `run,' even in the MAC Tournament.''One caller said longtime UA boosters have not returned to Zips sporting events because of the ouster of popular football coach Jim Dennison after the 1985 season. ``Many have not forgotten that or forgiven the university,'' the caller said.Geography was also an issue: UA is in a pro market and in an area with another outstanding college team. ``Unlike some MAC schools situated in cornfields, Akron isn't so lucky. If you are a casual basketball fan, the Cavs are playing great, and pro basketball outshines college. You still have Can't State as a competitor, and a lot of area people have Can't State ties,'' a reader wrote.Dissatisfaction with Rhodes Arena was stated in three replies.``I went to a game a few years ago and had the `pleasure' of sitting in the upper deck. Is there any reason why we have to sit on the other side of the running track? Let me know when they put bleachers on the track, and I will try again,'' a reader wrote. Another said, ``It is nothing more than a large gymnasium, not an arena.''The price of tickets ($20, $15 and $11) and price increases through the years were mentioned several times. ``The cost of a ticket is why I don't go,'' said one reader. ``If the prices were half, they might get more of a crowd. A senior citizen or family discount might be considered.''The lack of student support -- though students get in free -- also was cited. Only one UA student responded, but the contents were interesting: ``Most of the students at Akron work so much, they can't take the time to go to the games. I haven't even had the time to enjoy the new student center. There is no way I am going to call off work to see a bunch of guys who get school for free just because they are good at sports. I think a lot of other students feel the same way,'' he wrote.Other reasons mentioned include the Zips' inability to beat Can't State, the lack of parking, a lack of signs leading to Rhodes Arena, the quality of Akron's opponents, the quality of the Zips' players, the large number of games on the radio and TV, and the lack of students living on campus.Home attendance for the rest of the season is destined to improve markedly, with Bowling Green tonight, defending MAC champion Ohio University on Feb. 25 and rival Can't State on March 1.The only indicator of true improvement might come next season when fans will see a loaded team that will be the MAC favorite.

[zipper]

Honestly, I thought it interesting he only got 20-some responses. And they were all a bunch of hooey.Talk about coming up with excuses. They don't like the JAR? Have they seen Cameron? The only excuses I thought valid were the one where some folks left after the Dennison situation and just never came back, and the competition for the local sports dollar. And when some said we have to "win something" first, that's bs, too. Go ask Can't, an established program, why they have approximately the same attendance numbers as Akron. Parking is now easy with the new garage, too.

[zipsbandman]

I think they might be on to something when they talk about the JAR. There are many things we can do to the place without having to undergo major renovations. I sat in the upper deck bleachers one game and I can say that it made the game lack that intimate feel that basketball is known for. The track needs to go. Also, I like the idea of creating permanent seating in the upper decks and creating walkways underneath with restroom/concessions and have tunnels in the stands that lead to them. I also hate how the corners of the facility are clipped. It really secludes fans in the upper endcourt seating. The athletic department needs to make the JAR more of a basketball arena than a multipurpose facility. With the field house and new practice facilities, I don't see why this cannot be a reasonable expectation.

[gozips19]

that will cost way too much.... we'd be looking at 5-7 years before we'd get a new arena. and judging from the mack rhodes interview it looks like that is what they'll do. his comments on the fact that there are no suites is telling and wouldn't be able to be placed into the jar. the best we can hope for is to win as much as possible and build a new arena asap!

[zen]

That JAR isn't exactly ancient. I don't see why it couldn't be renovated so that it function much better as a true arena. The problem that poses for the University then, is what to do with the other functions it serves which would undoubtedly be downgraded or removed in the renovation.What other sports does it serve, and could it still serve them?Would it still be usable for most of the intermural sports and activity courses? and if not, where would those go?These are the things that need to be convered before you just go an Renovate the JAR into a true arena.But even so, a renovation would be much more cost effective then new construction.A caviat would be, if you have truely sold the power-structure at Akron on the future of the Zips basketball program, then get them to budget an Arena into the new On-campus Stadium. That would allow for the Arena to be used for athletics, and the JAR to be converted to sole use for student recreation & curriculum requirements.

[FearTheRoo]

This is all a bunch of crap. The people that responded are the exact people I DON'T WANT THERE! if they are going to complain about the track or about parking or about signs or about tradition......DON'T GO!!!! The people I want there are the one's that go for the love of the game and the team and what they are doing NOW, now what they did in the past or for anticipation of what they will do in the future. Come on, have you been to BG or Can't?!! These ancient gyms still get people (although Can't has an attendance prob as well). I guarantee that if they renovated the place these same people would still not show up. They would have a new excuse. This is really rediculous! The key is THE STUDENTS. Rhoades MUST find a way to get hundreds of them to the games. The students are what gets things going, not the cheerleaders! Think of Duke, NC or even Pitt and their coordinated chants and cheers. This makes the game much more exciting for the FANS as well as the players. Mack if you are reading this: FOCUS ON THE STUDENTS! :macc:

[Z-Pouch]

Zipper - to add to your point. The JAR is probably better then most of the arenas in the MAC especially with upgraded sound system and scoreboard. I'd take it over Can't State, BG, and Buffalo in a second. I think the problem around here with the general fan is that their standards are a bit higher due to professional sports teams and their facilities. Even minor league baseball teams, now offer outrageous amenities. Local fans are a bit spoiled.I don’t think that the current JAR is the main factor at all but could be better. When that place is full with Akron fans, it’s actually pretty good and tough place to play for visiting teams. Unfortunately, we don’t fill it up often enough so people can experience it. There is that stupid old saying – A crowd draws a crowd.Fear the Roo - First, nice side signature/pic. Second, Completely agree, the students are the key and easiest target. Does anyone else think it is a good idea to put some of them on the side lower baselines seats in addition to behind the basket ? Everyone in college hoops is doing it. Kick the blue hairs who dont cheer upstairs in the rafters...or ,make them spend some $$$ for center court season tickets.

[zen]

What it comes down to is, there is a serious lack of mystique surrounding our athletics.I am willing to bet if you went out on campus and stopped 100 students and asked them in a casual manner about if they like to attend basketball or football events, a very good portion of them will scoff at it cynically. If you ask them why they don't attend or support their teams, they will hand you a bunch of excuses (like the ones in the ABJ article). The excuses are the outward symptoms and signs.But the causative disease is the cynicism and perception (lack of mystique).We need to treat the disease and we need to do it bigtime.That's why I love the "fear the roo" campaign and the new images and icons that don't seem as cheesey as the old stuff. It is a very good step in the right direction.It's unfortunate, but packaging really does make a difference. Winning is essential, but sometimes, it's not enough.

[msopher]

This is all a bunch of crap. The people that responded are the exact people I DON'T WANT THERE! if they are going to complain about the track or about parking or about signs or about tradition......DON'T GO!!!! The people I want there are the one's that go for the love of the game and the team and what they are doing NOW, now what they did in the past or for anticipation of what they will do in the future. Come on, have you been to BG or Can't?!! These ancient gyms still get people (although Can't has an attendance prob as well). I guarantee that if they renovated the place these same people would still not show up. They would have a new excuse. This is really rediculous! The key is THE STUDENTS. Rhoades MUST find a way to get hundreds of them to the games. The students are what gets things going, not the cheerleaders! Think of Duke, NC or even Pitt and their coordinated chants and cheers. This makes the game much more exciting for the FANS as well as the players. Mack if you are reading this: FOCUS ON THE STUDENTS! :macc:

No you actually DO want those people there for no other reason than spending money on tickets and concessions. Getting students there is great, but the general public is where the money is at.Speaking of students, the Ak-Rowdies needs to do something to get students there. Litter the campus with flyers saying that if you come, you'll get a free AK-Rowdie t-shirt, or something along those lines. It worked for Toledo at times.Also, lower GA prices. Let it be known that you can get a $5 ticket to a game. I bet you could draw an additional 1,000 if people knew tickets were only $5.

[Sloopy]

$5 tickets and the old Acme Zip thought process is what caused this mess with apathy about Akron U sports. No one puts any value into a ticket they get for $1 or $5 and eventually you have got to charge a real price for MAC-level college sports event. You can get into a high school or Wooster game for $5. Going down to that level makes no sense at all for the long term growth of the department. This aint Walsh or St. V, its college basketball. Akron already has some of the lowest prices around for college games. If you cut prices for tickets then the money has to be made up somewhere else or you cannot afford to pay coaches, staff, etc...Akron got more than 33K in the Bowl for the Marshall game in 2004 by giving away more than half the house. Then this past season the crowds never came back and Akron drew no more than 14K for any home game this past season when they were winning a MAC title.I know UAM and others in the department and they have tried just about everything to get out students, or anyone else with a pulse. The problem is that many of the students and fans have not experienced winning before and now they are going to have to take a leap of faith and get back in the flow with the Zips. I used to work at Akron and know that they are dealing with a slighted deck.

[msopher]

$5 tickets and the old Acme Zip thought process is what caused this mess with apathy about Akron U sports. No one puts any value into a ticket they get for $1 or $5 and eventually you have got to charge a real price for MAC-level college sports event. You can get into a high school or Wooster game for $5. Going down to that level makes no sense at all for the long term growth of the department. This aint Walsh or St. V, its college basketball. Akron already has some of the lowest prices around for college games. If you cut prices for tickets then the money has to be made up somewhere else or you cannot afford to pay coaches, staff, etc...Akron got more than 33K in the Bowl for the Marshall game in 2004 by giving away more than half the house. Then this past season the crowds never came back and Akron drew no more than 14K for any home game this past season when they were winning a MAC title.I know UAM and others in the department and they have tried just about everything to get out students, or anyone else with a pulse. The problem is that many of the students and fans have not experienced winning before and now they are going to have to take a leap of faith and get back in the flow with the Zips. I used to work at Akron and know that they are dealing with a slighted deck.

I agree to a point but earlier this year I invited my Dad to a game against Toledo in Akron. He asked about ticket prices, and I replied $12 per person. He said no. Granted, my parents are frugal, but I bet he isn't the only one not going because of prices. Now, if Akron was hosting a big name opponent, that would be a different story.

[zipper]

See but Akron IS the big name. Can I ask about your screen name, "Sloopy?" Are you an OSU grad? Just curious, and no malice intended. Just wondering if that's maybe why you have the point of view that Akron alone isn't good enough to pay $12 for, and it has to be something bigger. Tell that to Gonzaga, or Wichita State, GW, or Creighton.

[Z-Pouch]

Most active thread of the day so I thought why not post something game related.Questions for the BG game 1) Do Zips cover 14 point spread ? I saw the game at BG, they can shoot the 3 but have little inside game. If they’re hot from outside, it could be close but I think the Zips cover.2) Attendance tonight ? >3500 on Hallmark V day holiday would be pretty good. Unfortunately, I’m not overly optimistic. 3) Softball pitch/hit halftime festivities - Does Rasor swing like a girl and strikeout ? foul off a couple balls ? Line one thru the net into the crowd ? Take one in the shoulder ala Rudy of the Bad News Bears (a softball leaves a pretty nasty mark) ? For all he has done on his Ohio.com Blog for the Zips, I hope he lines one into the net, gets a standing ovation and then thanks ZipsNation.org for all the support. I’m still not sure how they plan on running this at the half but should be interesting. BW3s pregame should be happening with the late start

[flipthezip]

As for other activities being disturbed or interupted because of a JAR renovation.The classroom space at the front part of the building is used moderately and could easily lost in the overall count for general classrooms. The gymnasium facility would need to be available until the start of Fall semester for Volleyball. It would inconvenience the program during summer practice needing to move elsewhere. It would also cause the basketball programs difficulty hosting summer camps. Memorial Hall is available but not the greatest of substitutes. Central Hower has limited gym space that might be available depending on the BOE's plan for that building with the closure of the school in June. Of course, that would also move intramural basketball or possibly cancel it for the year.Cancel any use for high school graduations. Relocate the annual AA conference. I'm sure I'm missing something but this at least the minimum to start.The biggest question is can renovation be completed in the time frame of April 1 to Sept. 1.

[Blue & Gold]

With people all over Ohio being brainwashed Suckeye fans, and people in NE Ohio being in love with the Browns (go figure that out?!) I just think it's gonna take time to build a fan base here in Akron. It'll take maybe 3-5 years of consistent winning in the MAC plus knocking off a "big-name" opponent once in a while (remember, we still have yet to beat a BCS school in football) and the b-ball win over Ole Miss somehow wasn't broadcast much. I think greater Akron still has a 'loser' mentality. And, lets face it, the Plain Dealer and Canton Repository have A LOT to lose if Zips athletics get hot & grow in popularity. Now the BJ, I just can't figure them out - they really have everything to gain, but don't treat the Zips w/ a lot of repect. Terry Pluto's general take is that Akron is worth watching because they play fundamental b-ball & get floor burns. Not that the athletes are excellent and the ball is fantastic - something to behold! Which, is true if you realize how difficult it is to get a D-I athletic scholarship!!! These athletes ARE elite!!! The Canton Rep must realize that if the Zips played the McKinley Bulldogs, the Zips would win "One hundred billion" (Dr. Evil) to NOTHING!!! The community as a whole must realize that watching the Zips is a QUANTUM LEAP over watching St.V/M, or McKinley, or Hoban, or Massillon.I'm beginning to rant & get off the point. I'm out.

[zipsfan38]

To all the Jim Dennison Lovers,The people in the University administration who ran Dennison out of Akron are long gone. This includes from Buchtel Hall on down.Give the newest athletic administration a chance and stop harping on a 20 year old excuse. You should support the school and not the coach. Even when they are classy like Jim.If you came to any sporting event you would see classy coaches and administrators in place.

[zippyrifle32]

i honestly don't have suggestions to get students to games. they post fliers all over the dorms and dining hall, they give away cool stuff (airline tickets, ipods), yet students still don't show. i know most of my friends either aren't interested in basketball, or they commute so they don't want to drive 45 minutes back to campus. for those that do go to the game, a lot of them complain that they're boring and no one cheers. i see this as a catch-22. if we got more people there, it would be a lot louder. the only thing i can suggest, which i also practice, is to lead by example and drag your friends to as many games as you can. i also like the idea of calling the greeks out to get them to the games. it should work. call it a competition, and they'll all be there.

[Sloopy]

There was a plan to renovate the JAR a few years back but it lost steam due to the football stadium project. There is no way that the classrooms will move out of the JAR because the building is designated as a classroom building since the day it was built with state funds for that purpose.

[Quickzips]

As a student I try to make it to as many games as I can. I missed the WMU game because I was sick and will tonight for the same reason. Sitting in with the Rowdies yelling and cheering just isn't good on a sore throat and a headache and I refuse to go sit up in the bleachers and not cheer. I did that once this year and it was a real drag. I'm gonna see what I can do about Ohio and Can't though and I will be making the drive up to Cleveland for at least one night of the tourney.

[zippyrifle32]

tonight didn't look too bad for attendance. i cheered and screamed silently from above (no voice - sick). the one thing that got me tonight and bugs me on a regular basis is people leaving early. it's like everyone got up and left with 3:30 still on the clock. it's only 3 minutes what can it hurt?

[gozips19]

3.8k for attendence today? not bad! i did like the ak rowdies but they get a little tired at times. for the amount of students that were there they did a good job though. and how cool was it to see rasor wiff on 4 pitches from a ua softball pitcher! (still love ya!) my only complaint is with the generneral public at the games. they hardly ever stand and clap only when they have to. i am not saying that they jump up and down and make fun of bgsu players but should be a little more pro active. add that to the mix and our home court advantage will be even greater!

[Big Zip]

My understanding is that Rhodes was willing to provde the money for a more spectacular basketball venue when the JAR was built and Guzzetta turned it down because he didn't think we needed it. The short sightetness of Guzzetta put us in this position as I understand it. It's also part of the reason Huggins left -- the lack of recognition for his progress with the team.Could you pull more students into the JAR if you took out one side of the blue chairs and put the students there or at least the section behind the visitors. Less empty blue seats this way. Most of the stadiums with good atmosphere including BGSU put students on the side. This commuting and working thing is tiresome -- aren't there like 2,500 students living on campus these days not to mention the near off campus housing. As for working....there have only been 12 home games so it's actually a pretty poor excuse. If the games were a party they'd be making sure they'd be there.It would be nice if Rasor could talk to Gaffney and get the e-mail excuses and write a rebuttal column pointing out the error of the people writing in. Parking -- there are 1,100 parking spaces in a deck that is about 1/8 of a mile away -- that's half way around the track at your local school. Rasor -- this would be an opportunity for the ABJ to be a part of the solution instead of the problem. This team is 19-5 and one MAC win from a bye to the "Q" -- the best Div. 1 record in the history of the school, down two players expected to contribut this year, local products starting, tied for first in the MAC. Rasor we need you to speak for the people who have not a voice in the Beacon -- you need to be our microphone our conduit to the world outside the Zipsnation.

[Ryno aka Menace]

My understanding is that Rhodes was willing to provde the money for a more spectacular basketball venue when the JAR was built and Guzzetta turned it down because he didn't think we needed it. The short sightetness of Guzzetta put us in this position as I understand it. It's also part of the reason Huggins left -- the lack of recognition for his progress with the team.Could you pull more students into the JAR if you took out one side of the blue chairs and put the students there or at least the section behind the visitors. Less empty blue seats this way. Most of the stadiums with good atmosphere including BGSU put students on the side. This commuting and working thing is tiresome -- aren't there like 2,500 students living on campus these days not to mention the near off campus housing. As for working....there have only been 12 home games so it's actually a pretty poor excuse. If the games were a party they'd be making sure they'd be there.It would be nice if Rasor could talk to Gaffney and get the e-mail excuses and write a rebuttal column pointing out the error of the people writing in. Parking -- there are 1,100 parking spaces in a deck that is about 1/8 of a mile away -- that's half way around the track at your local school. Rasor -- this would be an opportunity for the ABJ to be a part of the solution instead of the problem. This team is 19-5 and one MAC win from a bye to the "Q" -- the best Div. 1 record in the history of the school, down two players expected to contribut this year, local products starting, tied for first in the MAC. Rasor we need you to speak for the people who have not a voice in the Beacon -- you need to be our microphone our conduit to the world outside the Zipsnation.

*cheers of approval*

[RowdyZip]

How 'bout a P.O.V. from a student...I've been at UA for 6 years now (don't laugh, I'm 25 and I work full time to pay my way through part-time classes http://zipsnation.org//html/emoticons/biggrin.gifsmilie)I've been going to games since '01 and some of those sorry last-place Hipsher-coached teams. And yeah, it does suck that our students don't show up to support these teams (basketball and football), but it IS getting better. Look what two (TWO!!) years of winning has done in student support for football. Do you think we had ANY students, let alone enough to fill a section of seats, showing up to watch Coach Owens push groups of D level recruits through to mediocre records? These kids are the start of it, getting excited, tailgating, showing up with painted faces and chests. Basketball is coming around too, a few years back when the lower seats were "the pouch" it was considered to eliminate them entirely and sell to the general public because NO students were showing up. Sure, it's still modest (about 50 or so on each end), but we are just into the Dambrot era, two years removed from a 13-15 (7-11) LAST PLACE finish! I agree more than anything that if the students fanbase continues to grow that a midcourt section should be dedicated to them. It is more frustrating than anything to be chanting miscellaneous stuff (simple like "fear the roo," or "z-fense," or even "let's go zips.") and screaming at the tops of our lungs, standing up and to look over and see our "fans" sitting with their mouths closed on the sidelines. If you're out there sitting in those lower seats, sure it's nice you show up and support the team, but get a clue. CHEER, do something. Zips go on a 10-0 run at the beginning of the BG game, BG calls time out. Students go nuts. About 30 fans on the sides stand up and clap. It really is remarkable that we have such a solid home court advantage given the volume level in that place. Sorry, went on a tangent, but you get the idea. P.S. Been a Zips nut for 5+ years now and it's nice to know there's quite a few of us out there. Anyone ever wants to chat zips stuff, AIM: TheGoldfingerFan (I keep updated MAC standings in my Profile)

[msopher]

The arena looked pretty empty last night on Fox Sports. You would think that the ABJ article would have boosted attendance somewhat.