Dear American Soccer Haters: We Don't Need You Anymore (A Thank You Note)

[bobbyake]

Dear American Soccer Haters: We Don't Need You Anymore (A Thank You Note)

An interesting article that's relevant to Akron as we've seen soccer's growth firsthand. What do you guys think? I coach a little league baseball team and have noticed that soccer participation in the Akron area greatly outnumbers baseball. Will these kids continue to support soccer?

In the vast landscape of American sports, soccer has still yet to make a significant impression. Frankly, soccer has always been treated as something of a sixth toe in the footprint of American sports, with many fans calling soccer—and anyone who has grown to love it—every name you can imagine.

Soccer is boring. Soccer is for sissies. There isn't enough scoring. Just last week, I did a radio interview and mentioned an estimated 650 million people would tune in to the Manchester Derby, a statistic beset by comments like, "Soccer is only for people who weren't good enough to play real football." (Sound familiar GP1?)

Clearly, the commenter was right. Half the planet must be a bunch of sissies.

The good thing for soccer fans in America is that FINALLY, we no longer need people like that to care.

So thank you, haters. We actually don't need you anymore.

"They can watch us in America every week! In two languages!"

David Ramos/Getty Images

It's true. Soccer fans who tried to convert general-interest American sports fans have been misguided for years. Forcing American sports fans to care about soccer cannot work from a fan level. It can only work from a TV executive level.

We were misguided in our pleas, and now, finally, we've gotten to the point where we can stop, take a minute and realize how foolish we have been. The average American sports fan may not have been listening, but TV executives were.

As the European seasons come to a close, the English Premier League has as much final-day intrigue as fans could wish. Not only is the EPL title still up for grabs, but so are two of the top four positions in the league table—to qualify for next year's Champions League—as well as the last remaining spot in the relegation zone.

Survival Sunday.

That's what Fox Soccer is calling this weekend's slate of matches, something it is taking very, very seriously.

"More than a million Americans watched us beat Manchester United. On a Monday afternoon!"

Michael Regan/Getty Images

While ESPN2 will air Manchester City vs. Queens Park Rangers, the most important match of the weekend, Fox and its array of networks will carry every other match on live TV. It's unprecedented, and it's an American soccer fan's dream.

(click the link above for more)

[g-mann17]

YAWN

They have sited youth numbers for years, why? Because parents have thought football too dangerous, or kids were too big to play Pee Wee. Participation dwindles as the kids reach their teenage years.

And a million people watched Manchesters play each other, I bet a quick poll would show those million were mostly English natives and non US Americanized people.

What's interesting about the article is that it supports what train enthusiasts and knitters have said for a long time "We don't need the haters to care, because there are 400 channels that lack programming and need something to show, so we can find a NICHE there"

More people watched American Pickers then the Manchester match.

BTW, love soccer, played it and football and baseball, and watch the Zips every chance I get, I just have had it with the soccer snobbery.

[bobbyake]

YAWN

They have sited youth numbers for years, why? Because parents have thought football too dangerous, or kids were too big to play Pee Wee. Participation dwindles as the kids reach their teenage years.

And a million people watched Manchesters play each other, I bet a quick poll would show those million were mostly English natives and non US Americanized people.

What's interesting about the article is that it supports what train enthusiasts and knitters have said for a long time "We don't need the haters to care, because there are 400 channels that lack programming and need something to show, so we can find a NICHE there"

More people watched American Pickers then the Manchester match.

BTW, love soccer, played it and football and baseball, and watch the Zips every chance I get, I just have had it with the soccer snobbery.

I'm a big MLS supporter and have watched every game highlight this year for every game. The MLS is doing very well this year.

I've started to pay attention to NASL and USL Pro matches and have noticed that both of those leagues are doing very well this year.

The article isn't trying to say soccer is going to takeover American sports, it's basically saying soccer is here to stay.

[skip-zip]

An interesting article that's relevant to Akron as we've seen soccer's growth firsthand. What do you guys think? I coach a little league baseball team and have noticed that soccer participation in the Akron area greatly outnumbers baseball.

What a revelation. Tons of youths play soccer? We've known that for decades. It's inexpensive for parents, and great physical fitness for their kids, and I've pointed this out on many occassions.

[bobbyake]

What a revelation. Tons of youths play soccer? We've known that for decades. It's inexpensive for parents, and great physical fitness for their kids, and I've pointed this out on many occassions.

Children look up to pro-athletes. I didn't know anything about professional soccer in my youth because it wasn't easy to access. The MLS is very easy to access and follow these days which could be the difference. Times have changed.

Edit: Barcelona and Real Madrid are very easy to access these days. Most of these youth soccer participants know who Messi and Ronaldo are. I had no idea who Pele was when I played soccer.

[Crew8]

Children look up to pro-athletes. I didn't know anything about professional soccer in my youth because it wasn't easy to access. The MLS is very easy to access and follow these days which could be the difference. Times have changed.

Edit: Barcelona and Real Madrid are very easy to access these days. Most of these youth soccer participants know who Messi and Ronaldo are. I had no idea who Pele was when I played soccer.

Really, I knew who Pele was in my youth soccer days and I have a few years on you bobbyake. It probably helped that my father would bring home Pele instructional VHS videos for me to watch. My soccer skills didn't follow the same route as Pele.

Soccer is more accessible today. Over 15 years ago, the only soccer you could watch was the Mexican league on Sunday afternoons on Univision. And there would be no coverage of soccer except when the '94 World Cup happened. Even then, not all the WC games were televised or in '98. It wasn't until 2006 you could catch every WC match on the tube. It took baby steps to get where it is today.

[bobbyake]

Really, I knew who Pele was in my youth soccer days and I have a few years on you bobbyake. It probably helped that my father would bring home Pele instructional VHS videos for me to watch. My soccer skills didn't follow the same route as Pele.

Soccer is more accessible today. Over 15 years ago, the only soccer you could watch was the Mexican league on Sunday afternoons on Univision. And there would be no coverage of soccer except when the '94 World Cup happened. Even then, not all the WC games were televised or in '98. It wasn't until 2006 you could catch every WC match on the tube. It took baby steps to get where it is today.

You could argue that the lack of access of professional soccer was a reason why soccer's growth was slow during the 70's, 80's and 90's. This could also be the reason why a lot of youth's during those times grew away from the sport.

Professional soccer is easily accessible today, which could be the reason why a lot of youth's are continuing to support it.

We (soccer fans) are very happy with our soccer coverage. ESPN Sportscenter is for old people looking for old news. The MLS provides all the highlights I need within 5-10 minutes of it happening. Soccer haters have lost their battle with killing soccer in America.

[skip-zip]

Children look up to pro-athletes. I didn't know anything about professional soccer in my youth because it wasn't easy to access. The MLS is very easy to access and follow these days which could be the difference. Times have changed.

Edit: Barcelona and Real Madrid are very easy to access these days. Most of these youth soccer participants know who Messi and Ronaldo are. I had no idea who Pele was when I played soccer.

So, in response to my post, you are saying that times have changed, pro soccer is easily assessible now, and that youth soccer is huge because these kids look up to pro soccer players?

Then why has youth soccer been so big for decades now? Why are soccer fanatics so emphatic in their denial as to why so many little kids play soccer? It's a game that is able to be played by kids with little or no instruction. You can throw the ball out there and simply tell them to kick it in the net. There's no equipment. You don't need a big financial commitment as a parent. The reasons are pretty simple.

[bobbyake]

So, in response to my post, you are saying that times have changed, pro soccer is easily assessible now, and that youth soccer is huge because these kids look up to pro soccer players?

I did say that pro soccer is easily accessible today, but did not say that's the reason for youth's strong participation numbers. What I am saying is that pro soccer's easy access to these youths could be the reason why these youth's continue to support soccer.

I made the argument above that pro soccer's lack of access could be a major reason why a lot of youth's during the 70's, 80's, and 90's moved away from the sport. It's hard to support a sport no one knows about.

Then why has youth soccer been so big for decades now? Why are soccer fanatics so emphatic in their denial as to why so many little kids play soccer? It's a game that is able to be played by kids with little or no instruction. You can throw the ball out there and simply tell them to kick it in the net. There's no equipment. You don't need a big financial commitment as a parent. The reasons are pretty simple.

examples of this denial please? I don't believe soccer fans deny why kids play soccer.

[skip-zip]

I did say that pro soccer is easily accessible today, but did not say that's the reason for youth's strong participation numbers. What I am saying is that pro soccer's easy access to these youths could be the reason why these youth's continue to support soccer.

I made the argument above that pro soccer's lack of access could be a major reason why a lot of youth's during the 70's, 80's, and 90's moved away from the sport. It's hard to support a sport no one knows about.

examples of this denial please? I don't believe soccer fans deny why kids play soccer.

First of all, a lot of kids have always played soccer, for the very simple reasons I have mentioned. Where is this sudden breakout of participation by youths? And how is that somehow linked to kids idolzing pro soccer players when pro soccer is not even popular in the US ?

[bobbyake]

First of all, a lot of kids have always played soccer, for the very simple reasons I have mentioned. Where is this sudden breakout of participation by youths? And how is that somehow linked to kids idolzing pro soccer players when pro soccer is not even popular in the US ?

I mentioned soccer participation as an observation. Im confused by your questions. Pro soccer is the 2nd most popular sport for the high school and college age according to ESPN. Re-reading this thread might answer questions you have.

[K92]

The discussions between soccer fans and non-fans remind me of discussions between believers and atheists. All 4 groups know they are right and nothing is going to change their beliefs.

[bobbyake]

I don't understand why non-soccer fans are always up in arms when soccer fans mention soccer growth information and trends. A lot of US soccer fans support football, baseball, and basketball.

[Dave in Green]

@bobbyake, I'm primarily interested in basketball. While I don't have a lot of interest in soccer beyond the Zips, I do appreciate reading stats like those you presented. I don't see anything unreasonable in any of your comments. The world is constantly changing, and the smaller the world gets, the faster it can change. I recently read an interesting article about how basketball is the fastest growing sport in China. Who knows what's going to be the most popular sport in any country 50-100 years from now? All we can do is look at stats and trends and try to estimate where things are going. Makes for interesting conversation.

[zippy5]

I don't understand why non-soccer fans are always up in arms when soccer fans mention soccer growth information and trends. A lot of US soccer fans support football, baseball, and basketball.

Maybe because people get a little obnoxious and start topics titles "American soccer haters: We don't need you"

[Z.I.P.]

So, in response to my post, you are saying that times have changed, pro soccer is easily assessible now, and that youth soccer is huge because these kids look up to pro soccer players?

Then why has youth soccer been so big for decades now? Why are soccer fanatics so emphatic in their denial as to why so many little kids play soccer? It's a game that is able to be played by kids with little or no instruction. You can throw the ball out there and simply tell them to kick it in the net. There's no equipment. You don't need a big financial commitment as a parent. The reasons are pretty simple.

Skip, I respect your desire to continue with this simplistic (and simply wrong) statement. however this is the second time I have had to correct you on it, so please read this clearly: ANY youth sports league can be referred to in the terms you use -- if you have no experience as a player or parent in recent years. I believe any kid can play little league baseball or pee wee football (etc.) for relatively little money -- the cost of uniforms, travel to games...I'm not sure what else. But unlike youth soccer clubs, to my knowledge other sports do not require large membership fees for merely belonging to the club, and coaching fees that normally reach into the thousands of dollars per year. As I mentioned earlier, these expenses required to merely step on the field of a competitiive youth league (as contrasted with AYSO, where indeed, "Everyone Plays", but no one reaches the level of play necessary to achieve the parents' goal of a college scholarship, or pro career) are similar to those which upwardly mobile families are required to pay to get their children into the best private schools in their communities. And this economic reality is one of the main reasons why American soccer has been held back, in contrast to the Euroean and Latin American countries where kids can indeed just step onto a dirt field and somehow be noticed by club scouts, because in those countries every adult basically is a 'scout" and when a youngster is noticed with outstanding skill, he is sure to be given an opportunity to show his skills to local clubs, which is the entry door to professional play. Think of a Canadian youth who is good at hockey -- he'll be seen, "discovered", and the junior hockey scouts connected to pro teams will beat a path to his door. This system does not yet exist in American soccer, and so those with the $$$ to bet on their kid's future must put up, or appear willing to pay the big bucks for professional coaching and career progression (this is why the highest salaries in US soccer coaching do not go to college or sometimes pro coaches, but rather to youth soccer club Coaching Directors). Ask any family which belongs to a soccer/football club how it effects their expenses. You're sure to get an earful!

[bobbyake]

Skip, I respect your desire to continue with this simplistic (and simply wrong) statement. however this is the second time I have had to correct you on it, so please read this clearly: ANY youth sports league can be referred to in the terms you use -- if you have no experience as a player or parent in recent years. I believe any kid can play little league baseball or pee wee football (etc.) for relatively little money -- the cost of uniforms, travel to games...I'm not sure what else. But unlike youth soccer clubs, to my knowledge other sports do not require large membership fees for merely belonging to the club, and coaching fees that normally reach into the thousands of dollars per year. As I mentioned earlier, these expenses required to merely step on the field of a competitiive youth league (as contrasted with AYSO, where indeed, "Everyone Plays", but no one reaches the level of play necessary to achieve the parents' goal of a college scholarship, or pro career) are similar to those which upwardly mobile families are required to pay to get their children into the best private schools in their communities. And this economic reality is one of the main reasons why American soccer has been held back, in contrast to the Euroean and Latin American countries where kids can indeed just step onto a dirt field and somehow be noticed by club scouts, because in those countries every adult basically is a 'scout" and when a youngster is noticed with outstanding skill, he is sure to be given an opportunity to show his skills to local clubs, which is the entry door to professional play. Think of a Canadian youth who is good at hockey -- he'll be seen, "discovered", and the junior hockey scouts connected to pro teams will beat a path to his door. This system does not yet exist in American soccer, and so those with the $$$ to bet on their kid's future must put up, or appear willing to pay the big bucks for professional coaching and career progression (this is why the highest salaries in US soccer coaching do not go to college or sometimes pro coaches, but rather to youth soccer club Coaching Directors). Ask any family which belongs to a soccer/football club how it effects their expenses. You're sure to get an earful!

To be fair, there are traveling baseball and basketball leagues that can be costly. Basketball has AAU or something like that. Almost all the sports except for football have expensive or cheap leagues. It's up to the parents about the expense. I am not aware of any expensive football leagues. I played for CYO and Paterson Park.

It's around $90 for Springfield baseball unless you sell candy which I ended up buying most of

And I think $65 for Springfield soccer. I do not recommend the Springfield league for young kids btw, horrible experience.

I was going through the soccer board today and have noticed that Skip has been trolling soccer since 2006. Zipsnation needs a way for people to opt out of certain boards, self-control doesn't always work.

[Dave in Green]

Why would a soccer hater bother reading a soccer forum?

[bobbyake]

Why would a soccer hater bother reading a soccer forum?

If you go through previous threads, you'll find a certain someone liked to reply with a sleeping icon when threads were started for soccer.

[yazan07]

Why would a soccer hater bother reading a soccer forum?

There are seriously people who only show up here when a thread of this type pops up, so that they can offer their expert forecast on why soccer will never be a big sport or even a real sport in the US. They never come to actually discuss Akron soccer, just why soccer doesn't matter and everyone who cares about it is only pretending to care about it.

[skip-zip]

There are seriously people who only show up here when a thread of this type pops up, so that they can offer their expert forecast on why soccer will never be a big sport or even a real sport in the US. They never come to actually discuss Akron soccer, just why soccer doesn't matter and everyone who cares about it is only pretending to care about it.

Couldn't you say the same thing about the people who repeatedly use Zips Nation to try to convince people to believe the contrary? After a half century or so of history tells us otherwise?

And let me correct you. I think plenty of people on both sides of this issue, including myself, come here to discuss Zips Soccer.

[bobbyake]

Couldn't you say the same thing about the people who repeatedly use Zips Nation to try to convince people to believe the contrary? After a half century or so of history tells us otherwise?

And let me correct you. I think plenty of people on both sides of this issue, including myself, come here to discuss Zips Soccer.

Skip, the data shows that soccer is on the rise. Attendance and tv ratings continue to increase. NBC Sports is hitting there very low goal of 100k viewers per game. ESPN just had record ratings for an EPL game.

You could debate the EPL or La Lig vs the MLS, that would be more logical than poo pooing the latest trend facts.